*I* am an Undead Cohort, help me please my Master! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Banaticus
03-01-05, 01:29 AM Ok, I'm going to be playing in this game soon and I'll be an undead 9th level cohort to a 12th (or maybe 11th, being a newly created undead seems to have affected some of my memories) Paladin of Bane in the Forgotten Realms. Now, I don't have the Realms books, or any of the Complete books, but I do have the core books and the 3.0 splat books. But, that doesn't really matter, a cohort isn't supposed to upstate the PCs, right? :P

Anyway, I'd like all of your input. I'm doing this from the cyber cafe where I work and I only have the core 3.5 books with me at the moment, so splat book and MMII ideas will have to wait until tomorrow, unless any of you want to toss them out tonight.

So, to start with, knowing that he's a paladin of a lawful evil guy, I opened the MM to the devil section and the Erinyes was the first creature that I saw with a level adjustment. Hmm, how would an undead Erinyes work out, rules-wise? Can devils be undead?

I kind of like the idea of a fallen angel-type cohort. It might make my Master more kind, too. Then again, it could make me just that much more of a pawn to him.
PhaedrusXY
03-01-05, 01:42 AM Well... it depends on who you ask on whether outsiders like devils and demons can become undead. Personally, I find the idea abhorrent. Outsiders are supposed to be the souls of mortals that have passed on to the afterlife already. How can the soul of a mortal that's already passed on into it's afterlife become an undead? There are some rather stupid examples of undead outsiders in the rules, though. :rolleyes: :pbbbtt: :rant:

I'd beg/borrow/or steal a copy of Libris Mortis if I were going to play an undead. (Ok... don't really steal it. I'm not advocating thievery in real life...). It can add a ton of options to playing an undead, and many ways to make them much more powerful. Savage Species also has some interesting things on undead in it, like the emancipated spawn PrC. If at all possible, make sure that you were created by some caster or group of casters working together that have a bunch of the undead boosting feats from Libris Mortis. At the very least, make sure you're created near a desecrated shrine/altar to an evil god.
Bonzai
03-01-05, 01:52 PM I always like cleric lvls in my cohorts. That way you can always control your own minions. So maybe a mummy cleric bodyguard would be a cool minion to your paladin. Plus, the high wisdom is a plus, as latter on you can have yourself spell stiched. Which will give you spell resistance, turn resistance, damage resistance, and the ability to cast several arcane spells several times a day as a spell like ability.

As a role play, you are a cohort, not a slave. As a cleric you are an agent of your diety (make it the same as the paladin's), and have been sent to aid him, not serve him. Your diety has plans for him latter, your job is to see that he survives to fullfill them. Could work.
Banaticus
03-02-05, 01:13 AM Yeah, spellstiched -- was just looking at that in the MMII. I don't see an undead template, but aren't there rules for that sort of thing? Hmm, off the top of my head there's zombie, ghast, ghost, lich, all of which either create mindless undead, undead which can't really affect anything, and an undead that has to be at least level 14 (I believe -- but that's too high for me).

As far as cohort/slave, well, my Master doesn't treat me with the same regard that he would treat someone worthy of respect. I serve at his whim and although I can be useful (so I'd better be at least somewhat useful) I am clearly no rival to him -- clearly I am no threat or he would have disposed of me some time ago out of a love of self preservation. After all, although I am his loyal cohort, and have shown by word and deed that I am loyal to him, how long will that loyalty last?

Although I continually try to reassure him that my loyalty will never wane, his own past treacherys haunt him in this respect -- just how far can he really trust me?

Ok, to get back to the topic of just what I am. How about the Devoted Defender PrC? Perhaps cross that with Dwarven Defender, some fighter levels and the duergar race. Perhaps cleric for the ability to keep his undead from ripping me apart when he's gone, then going for the Devoted Defender PrC. By-the-by, was Devoted Defender reprinted in one of the Complete books?
Timespike
03-02-05, 01:28 AM I think spellstitched ALSO showed up in Libris Mortis. ;)

Well, if the positions were reversed and he was your cohort, I'd say Death's Chosen, but...

For him, I'd say something like Paladin of Tyranny 5/Pious Templar 10/Divine Champion 5 would be good. Full smite progression, tons of bonus feats, better spellcasting than a standard paladin of tyranny.
Banaticus
03-02-05, 01:36 AM Well, he is a vampire, so I'm going to have to look up that free Spawn class. I'm not really sure what classes he has -- he's just more uber than me and some sort of Paladin. How he can be a Paladin when we serve an evil diety is something that I've just never had the balls enough to ask him.
Banaticus
03-02-05, 02:52 AM So, how does the spellstiched template work for PCs? Is it just an NPC template? How does the CR adjustment factor into level equivalents?
Rhuarc
03-02-05, 04:06 AM Please don't forget to mention the Gestalt rules we play with! If you don't have Unearthed Arcana Greven or I will help you.
Bonzai
03-02-05, 09:59 AM Spell stiching was reprinted in Complete Arcane. It is an enhancement that can be applied to any undead, and is made with the craft wonderous item feat. In order to cast spells you need a minimum of 10 wis. Every second point beyond 10 raises the lvl of spells you are able to cast. The spells are picked before hand, and once set cannot be changed. They have to come from the schools of Evocation, Conjuration, or Necromancy. For example, my Pale Master has a stitched flesh bat familiar. It has 14 wis, and was spell stiched. It can cast the following;

3 times per day: Negative Energy Ray
2 times Per Day: Web, Darkness
1 time per day: Summon Undead 1, Fireball, Vampiric Touch

So, if you are able to allowcate your character wealth, I would highly recomend being spell stiched. It is worth every penny. The turn resistance, damage resistance, and spell resistance alone is worth it, not to mention the minor sorcerish abilities.
Banaticus
03-02-05, 06:35 PM Sounds just like the version in the Monster Manual II, but with a hefty material cost. In MMII spellstiching seemed to be similar to a golem -- the spellstiching was comprised of runes carved into the skin of the creature. If it's an enchantment in Complete Arcane, does the spellstiching go away when a person is in an antimagic field? Does a greater dispel magic or mordenkainen's disjunction remove the spellstiching? 'Cause if they do, then spellstiching may not be for me. At the levels that we're playing at those will most likely be more common and (seeing as how I'm just a cohort) I couldn't possible afford to have a majorly expensive thing recast over and over.

See, the main problem for me is what type of undead to be. Off the top of my head, I know of zombies, ghouls, ghasts (all mindless undead), ghosts (they just float around, can't do anything for my Master), phantasms (same problems as ghosts), liches (too high of a level), and vampires. Now, vampire could work, as that is what my Master is. But, what if he needs something done during the day? So, I'm left still thinking of what sort of undead I could be.

... Hmm, I was just thinking of taking that vampire template and only taking partial levels in it, but that would still make me a vampire -- although a vampiric childer might be fun to have, it doesn't make for a very useful servant.

Hmm, perhaps a skelton. A skeleton could be a useful servant.
Bonzai
03-03-05, 01:23 AM I believe that spell stiching is treated simular to grafts, a wonderous item, that can't be removed or salvaged. So while the abilities would go dormant in an anti magic field, they would return as soon as you left, nor can it be directly dispelled (though the spells could be as they were cast).
Banaticus
03-03-05, 06:09 PM Dang it, just looked in the MM and skeletons lose all HD from classes. ARG! So, I'm still looking for a way to get undead. I'm still looking for some sort of undead template that I can apply to myself.

Any suggestions?

As to the gestalt rules, it somewhat mimics the old fighter/wizard, etc. Basically, at each level you choose two classes and get the abilities of both, taking the best attack progression, saves, etc.
Rod Howard
03-03-05, 09:22 PM Take a look at the necropolitan in libris mortis.
Banaticus
03-03-05, 10:20 PM Sorry, no liber mortis :)
Bonzai
03-04-05, 12:31 AM Basically you lose one lvl, gain 1 lvl as an undead, and gain the general undead traites and have +4 turn resistance I believe.
PhaedrusXY
03-04-05, 01:28 AM Sorry, no liber mortis :)If you think you'll play this character for a while... it might be worth buying it if the DM will allow you to use it.

There are other types of undead that allow you to keep your class levels. A few that I can think of off the top of my head: Swordwraith (Fiend Folio), Dread Warrior (Unapproachable East), Juju Zombie (Unapproachable East), Death Knight (various sources), and of course Lich.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Banaticus 03-01-05, 01:29 AM	Ok, I'm going to be playing in this game soon and I'll be an undead 9th level cohort to a 12th (or maybe 11th, being a newly created undead seems to have affected some of my memories) Paladin of Bane in the Forgotten Realms. Now, I don't have the Realms books, or any of the Complete books, but I do have the core books and the 3.0 splat books. But, that doesn't really matter, a cohort isn't supposed to upstate the PCs, right? :P Anyway, I'd like all of your input. I'm doing this from the cyber cafe where I work and I only have the core 3.5 books with me at the moment, so splat book and MMII ideas will have to wait until tomorrow, unless any of you want to toss them out tonight. So, to start with, knowing that he's a paladin of a lawful evil guy, I opened the MM to the devil section and the Erinyes was the first creature that I saw with a level adjustment. Hmm, how would an undead Erinyes work out, rules-wise? Can devils be undead? I kind of like the idea of a fallen angel-type cohort. It might make my Master more kind, too. Then again, it could make me just that much more of a pawn to him.
PhaedrusXY 03-01-05, 01:42 AM	Well... it depends on who you ask on whether outsiders like devils and demons can become undead. Personally, I find the idea abhorrent. Outsiders are supposed to be the souls of mortals that have passed on to the afterlife already. How can the soul of a mortal that's already passed on into it's afterlife become an undead? There are some rather stupid examples of undead outsiders in the rules, though. :rolleyes: :pbbbtt: :rant: I'd beg/borrow/or steal a copy of Libris Mortis if I were going to play an undead. (Ok... don't really steal it. I'm not advocating thievery in real life...). It can add a ton of options to playing an undead, and many ways to make them much more powerful. Savage Species also has some interesting things on undead in it, like the emancipated spawn PrC. If at all possible, make sure that you were created by some caster or group of casters working together that have a bunch of the undead boosting feats from Libris Mortis. At the very least, make sure you're created near a desecrated shrine/altar to an evil god.
Bonzai 03-01-05, 01:52 PM	I always like cleric lvls in my cohorts. That way you can always control your own minions. So maybe a mummy cleric bodyguard would be a cool minion to your paladin. Plus, the high wisdom is a plus, as latter on you can have yourself spell stiched. Which will give you spell resistance, turn resistance, damage resistance, and the ability to cast several arcane spells several times a day as a spell like ability. As a role play, you are a cohort, not a slave. As a cleric you are an agent of your diety (make it the same as the paladin's), and have been sent to aid him, not serve him. Your diety has plans for him latter, your job is to see that he survives to fullfill them. Could work.
Banaticus 03-02-05, 01:13 AM	Yeah, spellstiched -- was just looking at that in the MMII. I don't see an undead template, but aren't there rules for that sort of thing? Hmm, off the top of my head there's zombie, ghast, ghost, lich, all of which either create mindless undead, undead which can't really affect anything, and an undead that has to be at least level 14 (I believe -- but that's too high for me). As far as cohort/slave, well, my Master doesn't treat me with the same regard that he would treat someone worthy of respect. I serve at his whim and although I can be useful (so I'd better be at least somewhat useful) I am clearly no rival to him -- clearly I am no threat or he would have disposed of me some time ago out of a love of self preservation. After all, although I am his loyal cohort, and have shown by word and deed that I am loyal to him, how long will that loyalty last? Although I continually try to reassure him that my loyalty will never wane, his own past treacherys haunt him in this respect -- just how far can he really trust me? Ok, to get back to the topic of just what I am. How about the Devoted Defender PrC? Perhaps cross that with Dwarven Defender, some fighter levels and the duergar race. Perhaps cleric for the ability to keep his undead from ripping me apart when he's gone, then going for the Devoted Defender PrC. By-the-by, was Devoted Defender reprinted in one of the Complete books?
Timespike 03-02-05, 01:28 AM	I think spellstitched ALSO showed up in Libris Mortis. ;) Well, if the positions were reversed and he was your cohort, I'd say Death's Chosen, but... For him, I'd say something like Paladin of Tyranny 5/Pious Templar 10/Divine Champion 5 would be good. Full smite progression, tons of bonus feats, better spellcasting than a standard paladin of tyranny.
Banaticus 03-02-05, 01:36 AM	Well, he is a vampire, so I'm going to have to look up that free Spawn class. I'm not really sure what classes he has -- he's just more uber than me and some sort of Paladin. How he can be a Paladin when we serve an evil diety is something that I've just never had the balls enough to ask him.
Banaticus 03-02-05, 02:52 AM	So, how does the spellstiched template work for PCs? Is it just an NPC template? How does the CR adjustment factor into level equivalents?
Rhuarc 03-02-05, 04:06 AM	Please don't forget to mention the Gestalt rules we play with! If you don't have Unearthed Arcana Greven or I will help you.
Bonzai 03-02-05, 09:59 AM	Spell stiching was reprinted in Complete Arcane. It is an enhancement that can be applied to any undead, and is made with the craft wonderous item feat. In order to cast spells you need a minimum of 10 wis. Every second point beyond 10 raises the lvl of spells you are able to cast. The spells are picked before hand, and once set cannot be changed. They have to come from the schools of Evocation, Conjuration, or Necromancy. For example, my Pale Master has a stitched flesh bat familiar. It has 14 wis, and was spell stiched. It can cast the following; 3 times per day: Negative Energy Ray 2 times Per Day: Web, Darkness 1 time per day: Summon Undead 1, Fireball, Vampiric Touch So, if you are able to allowcate your character wealth, I would highly recomend being spell stiched. It is worth every penny. The turn resistance, damage resistance, and spell resistance alone is worth it, not to mention the minor sorcerish abilities.
Banaticus 03-02-05, 06:35 PM	Sounds just like the version in the Monster Manual II, but with a hefty material cost. In MMII spellstiching seemed to be similar to a golem -- the spellstiching was comprised of runes carved into the skin of the creature. If it's an enchantment in Complete Arcane, does the spellstiching go away when a person is in an antimagic field? Does a greater dispel magic or mordenkainen's disjunction remove the spellstiching? 'Cause if they do, then spellstiching may not be for me. At the levels that we're playing at those will most likely be more common and (seeing as how I'm just a cohort) I couldn't possible afford to have a majorly expensive thing recast over and over. See, the main problem for me is what type of undead to be. Off the top of my head, I know of zombies, ghouls, ghasts (all mindless undead), ghosts (they just float around, can't do anything for my Master), phantasms (same problems as ghosts), liches (too high of a level), and vampires. Now, vampire could work, as that is what my Master is. But, what if he needs something done during the day? So, I'm left still thinking of what sort of undead I could be. ... Hmm, I was just thinking of taking that vampire template and only taking partial levels in it, but that would still make me a vampire -- although a vampiric childer might be fun to have, it doesn't make for a very useful servant. Hmm, perhaps a skelton. A skeleton could be a useful servant.
Bonzai 03-03-05, 01:23 AM	I believe that spell stiching is treated simular to grafts, a wonderous item, that can't be removed or salvaged. So while the abilities would go dormant in an anti magic field, they would return as soon as you left, nor can it be directly dispelled (though the spells could be as they were cast).
Banaticus 03-03-05, 06:09 PM	Dang it, just looked in the MM and skeletons lose all HD from classes. ARG! So, I'm still looking for a way to get undead. I'm still looking for some sort of undead template that I can apply to myself. Any suggestions? As to the gestalt rules, it somewhat mimics the old fighter/wizard, etc. Basically, at each level you choose two classes and get the abilities of both, taking the best attack progression, saves, etc.
Rod Howard 03-03-05, 09:22 PM	Take a look at the necropolitan in libris mortis.
Banaticus 03-03-05, 10:20 PM	Sorry, no liber mortis :)
Bonzai 03-04-05, 12:31 AM	Basically you lose one lvl, gain 1 lvl as an undead, and gain the general undead traites and have +4 turn resistance I believe.
PhaedrusXY 03-04-05, 01:28 AM	Sorry, no liber mortis :)If you think you'll play this character for a while... it might be worth buying it if the DM will allow you to use it. There are other types of undead that allow you to keep your class levels. A few that I can think of off the top of my head: Swordwraith (Fiend Folio), Dread Warrior (Unapproachable East), Juju Zombie (Unapproachable East), Death Knight (various sources), and of course Lich.