*lithid optimizing fun :D [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
EtherealFocus
02-04-06, 04:25 AM Yeah, illithids do a lot more than eat brains. But eating brains is the fun part.

Too bad they suck at it unless someone fails an easy will save. So, the project I'm kicking off here is yet another optimization project: Build an illithid or half-illithid...
1. Whose primary focus is Extract Brain
2. Does not rely on minions (coerced or otherwise) or summonrs to do its dirty work
3. Does not use spells or Illithid Savant brokenness as a primary attack
4. The goals here are both absurdly overpowered builds and playable/semi-playable ones.
5. It doesn't matter if the critter actually gets a substantial benefit from it. Brain eating is its own reward.
6. Sure, illithids don't technically chew the brains, but cerebromastication is still a funny word.

Bonus points for roaming predator or funny flavor (because illithids need to be laughed at sometimes).

NOTE: No, I'm not just being a lamewad and disguising a request for someone else to build characters for me, but I do think it's a cool idea that could use some CO treatment.

That said, here are a couple of my semi-sober 3am attempts:

1. The Moelithid. Named after someone from Calvin and Hobbes, and behaves similarly. Start with something dumb and a good Str mod (Half-Ogre) and the Half-Illithid template (LA 5), throw in an optimized stunning fist attack (I'm sure the DC can hit neigh-orbital levels with a little work). The tentacle grapple shouldn't need to be very good since the victim will be stunned, but uber bonus points if the Moelithid can Extract Brains and turn a victim upside down and shake out some lunch money at the same time :D

2. The Dracothid. Start with a dragon at least large size but preferrably huge (enlarge self wouldn't hurt). Tack on the half-illithid template and Flyby Attack. Grab the punk beater that bought a ring of acid resistance just so he could get swallowed by every monster and kill it from the inside out. You'll be the first monster smart enough (despite dragons supposedly having the intelligence to make Stephen Hawking go back to playing with Lincoln Logs) to realize that ingesting a live, heavily armed and armored beater might not be the wisest course of action. Rather than sucking down all that armor, utilize your massive grapple bonuses and eat the brain, then disguise it by swallowing the corpse. See if anyone else is gullible enough to fall for it. You've got the bluff check.

3. Puff, slurp, puff (obviously playing off Xeraph's thread at http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=355528 ). This one I'm iffy on. There's no way to get Dex to grapple as far as I know, which leaves you with a not-so-great Str-based warlock/shadowlord with a 5-level hit from the half-illithid template. The optimizer in me is embarrassed to even post this one, but I'm not having any revelations as to better ways to make it happen and the imagery is great ("hey, weren't you a whole lot smarter just a second ago... AHH!") Then there's the problem that Extract is a minimum 2-round deal (first round to attach all four tentacles, second round for the money shot). Maybe some chronotryn cheese could solve that, but then we've lost all hope for a reasonable build. :p

Well, bed time. Hopefully this is coherent and I won't wake up and smack myself. :D
Caelic
02-04-06, 08:49 AM I've always liked the idea of a Master Transmogrifist combining Illithid with the Adhere quality--once you're grappled, you automatically stay grappled; when you stay grappled, you die.
EtherealFocus
02-05-06, 02:03 AM Nice combo - where does the Adhere quality come from? The two problems I see (common to stuff I posted too) is that the MoM1 mind flayer is awfully unoptimized and just plain unfit for anything but stunning the party beater, and that both the mind flayer and the half-illithid template are pretty hefty level adjustments (+5 to be a half-illithid... you can get +8 str, +4 nat armor, a breath weapon, and more from the half-dragon template and that's only a +3). Ideas on that one?
IceFractal
02-05-06, 03:25 AM If you get a Quill Cloak (from Savage Species), you can use your tentacle grapple attacks to spam out quills, which may help stop them from fighting back. You still have to grapple them first though
Khan the Destroyer
02-05-06, 04:32 AM Psionic Illithid can use Expanded Knowledge to grab powers like Expansion, Grip of Iron, Strength of my Enemy, Metamorphosis, etc.

Improved Grapple would be a good feat to nab as well. As well as Multigrab and Improved Multigrab. This would allow an Illithid to grapple up to 4 enemies at once with no penalties.
neilthrun
02-05-06, 08:29 PM You should check out the illithid body tamer, its best for half illithids though. Also in that book(underdark), you will find tentacle extenders. You can enchant them, they increase the reach by another 5 feat, and the dice damage goes up a size. Extended Reach is also a must for an illithid. You will also notice you get a +2 circumstance bonus for each tentacle attatched, so get more tentacles!! I'm pretty sure their is a graft for that. Otherwise the abberation feats in Lords of Madness will work. So heres a build, for flavor you should call the bear totem barbarian variant, Squid or Octopus totem.

Half Illithid Orc

BearTotemBarb1-Extra Rage,Toughness
Orc Paragon1-
BearTotemBarb2-Power Attack,Improved Grapple
BearTotemBarb3-Great Fortitude
BearTotemBarb4
BearTotemBarb5-Weapon Focus(Tentacle)
IBT1
IBT2
IBT3-Extended Reach
IBT4
IBT5
IBT6-Multi Grab
IBT7
IBT8
IBT9-Improved Natural Attack(Tentacle)

Unfortunately, we don't get all of the levels of Illithid Body Tamer in pre epic, but you get some hefty tentacle damage. 3d6, with 15ft reach. You get a +8 bonus to grappling through Improved Grapple and the bear totems 5th level ability. Its a shame I couldn't fit in extended rage, but oh well.

But even after we've done this, an Illithid Savant does it all, and alot better even with out being too munchkiny, mostly because the feats power attack and weapon focus aren't required.
anarchy1973
02-05-06, 11:10 PM For more cheese, try the half illithid template with Thayan Gladiator PRC from COR, take Tentacle as your chosen natural weapon & enjoy.

Why an Illithid or half illithid would end up in Thay as a gladiator is a matter I'm sure any decent Character Optimizer should be able to squeeze past his DM.

Mixing that with tentacle extensions & cortical armour from Underdark & ending up with Illithid Body Tamer should make a pretty decent "Melee" Illithid or 1/2 Illithid.

Improved Grapple, etc... As per previous posts.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EtherealFocus 02-04-06, 04:25 AM	Yeah, illithids do a lot more than eat brains. But eating brains is the fun part. Too bad they suck at it unless someone fails an easy will save. So, the project I'm kicking off here is yet another optimization project: Build an illithid or half-illithid... 1. Whose primary focus is Extract Brain 2. Does not rely on minions (coerced or otherwise) or summonrs to do its dirty work 3. Does not use spells or Illithid Savant brokenness as a primary attack 4. The goals here are both absurdly overpowered builds and playable/semi-playable ones. 5. It doesn't matter if the critter actually gets a substantial benefit from it. Brain eating is its own reward. 6. Sure, illithids don't technically chew the brains, but cerebromastication is still a funny word. Bonus points for roaming predator or funny flavor (because illithids need to be laughed at sometimes). NOTE: No, I'm not just being a lamewad and disguising a request for someone else to build characters for me, but I do think it's a cool idea that could use some CO treatment. That said, here are a couple of my semi-sober 3am attempts: 1. The Moelithid. Named after someone from Calvin and Hobbes, and behaves similarly. Start with something dumb and a good Str mod (Half-Ogre) and the Half-Illithid template (LA 5), throw in an optimized stunning fist attack (I'm sure the DC can hit neigh-orbital levels with a little work). The tentacle grapple shouldn't need to be very good since the victim will be stunned, but uber bonus points if the Moelithid can Extract Brains and turn a victim upside down and shake out some lunch money at the same time :D 2. The Dracothid. Start with a dragon at least large size but preferrably huge (enlarge self wouldn't hurt). Tack on the half-illithid template and Flyby Attack. Grab the punk beater that bought a ring of acid resistance just so he could get swallowed by every monster and kill it from the inside out. You'll be the first monster smart enough (despite dragons supposedly having the intelligence to make Stephen Hawking go back to playing with Lincoln Logs) to realize that ingesting a live, heavily armed and armored beater might not be the wisest course of action. Rather than sucking down all that armor, utilize your massive grapple bonuses and eat the brain, then disguise it by swallowing the corpse. See if anyone else is gullible enough to fall for it. You've got the bluff check. 3. Puff, slurp, puff (obviously playing off Xeraph's thread at http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=355528 ). This one I'm iffy on. There's no way to get Dex to grapple as far as I know, which leaves you with a not-so-great Str-based warlock/shadowlord with a 5-level hit from the half-illithid template. The optimizer in me is embarrassed to even post this one, but I'm not having any revelations as to better ways to make it happen and the imagery is great ("hey, weren't you a whole lot smarter just a second ago... AHH!") Then there's the problem that Extract is a minimum 2-round deal (first round to attach all four tentacles, second round for the money shot). Maybe some chronotryn cheese could solve that, but then we've lost all hope for a reasonable build. :p Well, bed time. Hopefully this is coherent and I won't wake up and smack myself. :D
Caelic 02-04-06, 08:49 AM	I've always liked the idea of a Master Transmogrifist combining Illithid with the Adhere quality--once you're grappled, you automatically stay grappled; when you stay grappled, you die.
EtherealFocus 02-05-06, 02:03 AM	Nice combo - where does the Adhere quality come from? The two problems I see (common to stuff I posted too) is that the MoM1 mind flayer is awfully unoptimized and just plain unfit for anything but stunning the party beater, and that both the mind flayer and the half-illithid template are pretty hefty level adjustments (+5 to be a half-illithid... you can get +8 str, +4 nat armor, a breath weapon, and more from the half-dragon template and that's only a +3). Ideas on that one?
IceFractal 02-05-06, 03:25 AM	If you get a Quill Cloak (from Savage Species), you can use your tentacle grapple attacks to spam out quills, which may help stop them from fighting back. You still have to grapple them first though
Khan the Destroyer 02-05-06, 04:32 AM	Psionic Illithid can use Expanded Knowledge to grab powers like Expansion, Grip of Iron, Strength of my Enemy, Metamorphosis, etc. Improved Grapple would be a good feat to nab as well. As well as Multigrab and Improved Multigrab. This would allow an Illithid to grapple up to 4 enemies at once with no penalties.
neilthrun 02-05-06, 08:29 PM	You should check out the illithid body tamer, its best for half illithids though. Also in that book(underdark), you will find tentacle extenders. You can enchant them, they increase the reach by another 5 feat, and the dice damage goes up a size. Extended Reach is also a must for an illithid. You will also notice you get a +2 circumstance bonus for each tentacle attatched, so get more tentacles!! I'm pretty sure their is a graft for that. Otherwise the abberation feats in Lords of Madness will work. So heres a build, for flavor you should call the bear totem barbarian variant, Squid or Octopus totem. Half Illithid Orc BearTotemBarb1-Extra Rage,Toughness Orc Paragon1- BearTotemBarb2-Power Attack,Improved Grapple BearTotemBarb3-Great Fortitude BearTotemBarb4 BearTotemBarb5-Weapon Focus(Tentacle) IBT1 IBT2 IBT3-Extended Reach IBT4 IBT5 IBT6-Multi Grab IBT7 IBT8 IBT9-Improved Natural Attack(Tentacle) Unfortunately, we don't get all of the levels of Illithid Body Tamer in pre epic, but you get some hefty tentacle damage. 3d6, with 15ft reach. You get a +8 bonus to grappling through Improved Grapple and the bear totems 5th level ability. Its a shame I couldn't fit in extended rage, but oh well. But even after we've done this, an Illithid Savant does it all, and alot better even with out being too munchkiny, mostly because the feats power attack and weapon focus aren't required.
anarchy1973 02-05-06, 11:10 PM	For more cheese, try the half illithid template with Thayan Gladiator PRC from COR, take Tentacle as your chosen natural weapon & enjoy. Why an Illithid or half illithid would end up in Thay as a gladiator is a matter I'm sure any decent Character Optimizer should be able to squeeze past his DM. Mixing that with tentacle extensions & cortical armour from Underdark & ending up with Illithid Body Tamer should make a pretty decent "Melee" Illithid or 1/2 Illithid. Improved Grapple, etc... As per previous posts.