Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-06-06, 12:51 AM	Order of the Stick Comic #370 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0370.html) (*casts protection from copy right infringement*) Oh man... Xykon FTW. Now, my question to the CO board is: has anyone ever statted out Xykon?
Phoenix00 11-06-06, 12:55 AM	He isn't a wizard, he is a sorcerer according to rich burlew. He is at least ecl 18th level due to him casting force cage, thus at least 14th level + the 4 LA for being a lich.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-06-06, 12:56 AM	oh well who cares what the author says... I'm just interested in seeing some optimal Xykon builds, be they sor or wiz. The key trick will be optimizing for raise dead. Raise dead is a cleric only spell...
Hanniball 11-06-06, 01:03 AM	I hate to suggest Sorcerer, but if the author states that's what his base class is I think we should stick to that. Plus, it makes it more challenging. I'd say something akin to Clr 3/Sor 4/MyTh 10. That'd allot for the Raise Dead and Forcecage, but it's not nearly optimized. Get it? A "raise" :rofl: He's totally got 20+ ranks in Perform (comedy)
Rashomon 11-06-06, 01:03 AM	I am tempted to suggest that he be a dry lich whose template was acquired via Walker Of The Wastes, which has massive CHA synergy with sorceror. It would look hella different, though. And I think WotW is a cleric PrC, in which case disregard me, I munch poultry.
Gharlane 11-06-06, 01:31 AM	He isn't a wizard, he is a sorcerer according to rich burlew. He is at least ecl 18th level due to him casting force cage, thus at least 14th level + the 4 LA for being a lich. Ghostform is an 8th level spell [Spell Compendium] so he has to have at least 16 sorcerer levels, putting him at ECL 20 (in this context, though, it would be more appropriate to describe him as at least a CR 18 encounter). Miko's anywhere between ECL 12 and ECL 16, so it's not like she stood a chance. [she can smite evil 3/day, so she has at least 10 paladin levels she has evasion, so she has at least 2 monk levels she can only make 3 primary hand attacks, so her BAB cannot exceed 15]
Nifft 11-06-06, 02:06 AM	Xykon was clearly human from his appearance in Roy's dad's flashback scene. He's the arch-villain for a bunch of PCs who have leveled up twice, and are presumably going to be 17-18th level when they fight him, so I'd figure him to be an 18th level Sorcerer (+4 template CR for total of 22 -- boss-fight for sure). -- N
Tenebrous_Sage 11-06-06, 02:29 AM	He doesn't actually cast raise dead in the comic, and the way he says the joke doesn't make it sound like he can cast it. "You might want to mention that at your next performance review..." I think it was just meant to be funny. I remember him being referenced as wizard in the comic itself. I'm going to try to find it.
FriendlyFrog 11-06-06, 03:45 AM	Archivist/Walker in the Waste with a high bluff to fool people into thinking that he's an arcane caster?
X-Codes 11-06-06, 04:21 AM	I, too, think he's a Sorcerer. He likes that Shatter spell, and he also casts lots of Magic Missles. Redcloak also has the Chaos or Destruction domains, because he also likes the Shatter spell, just doesn't use it as often. Xykon obviously has maxed Charisma (with that cloak of his giving a +6 bonus) with no Con score. He also has very good Int for a sorcerer (16+), with moderate Wisdom (probably around 12-14 thanks to the +2 from the Lich template). Theres no way to determine his strength or dexterity, really, since he's never carrying anything and controls the game with magic before they even get close to him. He was probably venerable before he transformed and has like a 4 and 6 in each. He's around 18th level. As for skills, he has high spot, spellcraft, knowledge (religion), knowledge (arcana), concentration, and sense motive, with a few ranks in Perform (comedy) and bluff for kicks. Redcloak has low strength (he's a GOBLIN) and high dex, with Weapon Finesse for those touch attacks. His constitution is mediocre (he's probably headed for lichdom himself one day), and Intelligence and Charisma are about 12-14 each, with Wisdom being very high, but not maxed. He probably has the Destruction and Evil domains, but never uses the Destruction domain's smite ability because of his crappy strength. He's around 15th level. For skills, he's got Diplomacy, Spellcraft, Knowledge (religion), and Concentration. Like I said, he's no genius. He's purely straight-man and phylactery-holder. Miko is obviously a Paladin/Monk. She has well-rounded physical stats, but comparatively low intelligence and wisdom (i'd say 10 and 12 respectively). She also has good enough Charisma, but some kind of special flaw that gives her a -8 or so penalty on charisma-based checks. She's about 14th level, with most of her feats in Extra Smiting. For skills, she has Knowledge (nobility and royalty) with a little Sense Motive.
Empirate 11-06-06, 05:13 AM	It does say that Xykon's a sorcerer in the comic, all right. Level would be at least 16th, but we just can't imagine an archvillain of such a huge storyline not being able to cast 9th level spells, can we? Yes we can! If he had Wish or Time Stop or Shapechange or Wail of the Banshee... he'd have used them already! So I argue he is a Sorcerer of at most 17th level. He did cast Symbol of Pain (8th, iirc) and Ghostform (8th) in the comic. But: I would argue for some Archmage levels, since he seems to be able to Animate Dead pretty easily, with no Onyx mentioned - cries spell-like ability, I think. My build would be: NE Male Lich Sorcerer 14/Archmage 3 (CR 21), with the Animate Dead spell-like ability, some spell power, and something else. He also probably has the Leadership feat (else why does Redcloak stay around?), which, paired with his high level and Charisma, explains the Hobgoblin army under his command. Spell Focus (Necromancy) is self-explanatory; other than that I'd say Spell Focus (Enchantment), though that just makes sense to me, there's nothing to go by. Skill-wise, it would be the usual Sorcerer stuff, as well as some knowledge (history), some perform (archvillainy) and some bluff. He owns a crystall ball and probably a cloak of charisma +6, as well as a robe of the evil archmagi. He's far from optimised, but still very powerful, especially against a group that still scrapes by at about 12th level. I agree on Miko being between 14th and 16th level, with two levels of Monk, two levels of Ranger, the rest Paladin. Ranger is important for TWF and Track. She doesn't cast spells, which I take as signifying her Wisdom could be better (she seems to have poor impulse control, too... as well as being not too wise around other human beings). Charisma is quite good (very good saves, quite powerful Lay on Hands), but she's not using it most of the time. She only wears light armor, meaning Dex must be really high, and her good Reflex save reflects this. Strength will be good, but not exceedingly so: She relies more on number of attacks and Smite Evil to do damage. Constitution seems OK too, but there's no indication it is through the roof. Int... meh. Dump stat for Miko.
X-Codes 11-06-06, 06:57 AM	Yeesh... The Archmage's spell-like ability High Arcana does not remove XP component costs, and it changes material component costs to 10x the same value in XP.
Midnight_v 11-06-06, 07:22 AM	Miko isn't any ranger. She's ... Paladin X, CW samurai(2 at least which is why she has two swords as one.) I mean it says multiple times she's a paladin and a samurai. I wouldn't say she had evasion but just really good saves from a cloak of charisma +4/divine grace. Xykon... well he could be anynumber of things but I think if were making optimized builds of these characters then we're just doing out own thing cause they're not optimized. As THOG says: "Fighter 3 is dumb!" LOL Good stuff.
Kresalak 11-06-06, 07:27 AM	Lich is CR +2, though LA +4 (it's too weak at that; should be +2). So his CR is at most 19, since he'd slaughter them if he could cast 9th level spells. I doubt his Wisdom is very good, as he lost the first fight with them due to arrogance. He is, however, obviously intelligent and charismatic.
Tenebrous_Sage 11-06-06, 07:34 AM	Actually she [Miko] is a Paladin/Monk. The comic specifically says that, while she is a samurai, she doesn't have any levels in the class. It's all right here, in the 7th panel:OotS #209 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/images/oots0209.gif)
Midnight_v 11-06-06, 07:47 AM	LOL! :clap: Touche' My friend. Well when you're wrong, you're wrong... still thats a terrible translation as whe fights with two weapons and wears medium armor. (Might be mithril I'd have to re-read all this to know for sure). But like I said none of these people is optimized, I defer to your "more accurate" build.
Michigan 11-06-06, 08:20 AM	I don't think Xyklon needs Leadership. He's an NPC and the BBEG to boot. They get henchmen and lair-staffing monsters for free. It is good to be the :emp: Vaarsuvius has levels in Loremaster, although I'd say that the thousand arcane secrets (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootscast.html) are probably only one or two levels in the PrC. I'd say the Order of the Stick rpobably all fall between levels 6-10... they've leveled up twice making them 8-12 as of the most recent stip. About right for them to take on an army, imho. (They'll have tons of Azure City's NPC soldiers with them, so the battle will be epic, but not Epic.) Roy and Durkon are the highest level, as they've been adventuring togther the longest. Durkon is a straight Dwarven Cleric 12. I see Roy as a Human Fighter 11/Expert 1... he's got some low ranks Knowledge(arcane) and Spellcraft (he's from a famly of Wizards) and some Appraise, Profession (finance), and Diplomacy (he's the party frontman, and he has an MBA (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootscast.html)). Haley is pure Rogue ~10, Elan is pure Bard ~8 (although he almost multiclassed), and Belkar is a Ranger/Barbarian/Assassin ~7/1/2. IMHO, Miko is a Paladin 10/Monk 2, who took Track asher Human feat, and has picked up TWF, Extra Smite, and conned the DM into allowing her to take Weapon Focus (daisho). Every last one of them has naught for ranks in Spot or Listen. As the hordes of Goblin Ninja found out.
Tempest Stormwind 11-06-06, 10:19 AM	LOL! :clap: Touche' My friend. Well when you're wrong, you're wrong... still thats a terrible translation as whe fights with two weapons and wears medium armor. (Might be mithril I'd have to re-read all this to know for sure). But like I said none of these people is optimized, I defer to your "more accurate" build. 1) She doesn't appear to be wearing armor of any tangible amount -- this is backed up by the fact that she uses Evasion in her first battle 2) There's nothing *wrong* with taking the two-weapon fighting feats without spending bonus feats, even though this violates the Second Commandment in her case. Michigan, the MBA is revealed in On The Origin Of PCs to stand for Masters of Battle Administration (or something similar; I forget; the B is definitely 'battle', though, as opposed to 'business' in our world). And I don't see where Belkar got the assassin level. But in general I agree.
Tweedledope 11-06-06, 10:30 AM	Xycon is a Dread Necromancer 20...he's an obvious lich. And, he is very wise.
Skadrian 11-06-06, 10:36 AM	except that he is older then that class, OotS started before HoH was published
FiestFan 11-06-06, 10:45 AM	I seem to recall Rich Burlew specifying that he intentionally didn't stat out any of the characters in the strip, so that he could avoid pigeonholing himself with abilities he wants a certain character to have/not have. I don't doubt this also applies to Xycon.
dog45 11-06-06, 11:21 AM	Elan is pure Bard ~8 (although he almost multiclassed), I thought Elan was a Fighter/Rogue/Sorceror who specializes in Enchantments?
Verenal 11-06-06, 11:33 AM	No, that's Nale.
Wilds 11-06-06, 11:34 AM	I thought Elan was a Fighter/Rogue/Sorceror who specializes in Enchantments? No thats his evil twin brother Nale, who beliveis Bards are weak, so multiclassed to act like a bard EDIT: my bad Verenal beat me too it
Michigan 11-06-06, 12:13 PM	Michigan, the MBA is revealed in On The Origin Of PCs to stand for Masters of Battle Administration (or something similar; I forget; the B is definitely 'battle', though, as opposed to 'business' in our world). And I don't see where Belkar got the assassin level. But in general I agree. Ahh, that makes sense. Drop the Expert from my build, and make him a pure Fighter then. He definitely has a high Int though. If Rich Burlew wasn't so good at keeping things Core Only (Okay, SRD only) then a dip into Marshal would be a nice touch.
NoldorForce 11-06-06, 01:22 PM	Ahh, that makes sense. Drop the Expert from my build, and make him a pure Fighter then. He definitely has a high Int though. If Rich Burlew wasn't so good at keeping things Core Only (Okay, SRD only) then a dip into Marshal would be a nice touch.Include the dip into Marshal if you wish--the above picture includes a spell called Ghostform, something clearly NOT in Core or even the SRD. Rich also uses a somewhat selective definition of what's in HIS Core--no polymorphing (not even his wacky system, which can be broken by the same means as Words of Alignment) and no psionics, for instance.
FeceMan 11-06-06, 01:42 PM	Uhhh...why does everyone think that Xykon can cast raise dead? I think that Xykon is probably epic level. Though Vaarsuvius doesn't cast them, he has time stop, wish, and meteor swarm in his spellbook. He also has only 18 INT, so it's fairly unlikely that he would have succeeded on a bunch of DC 29 spellcraft checks.
dog45 11-06-06, 02:10 PM	Ah, thats right. I got confused by the whole 'nale, not-nale' thing.
HatTrick 11-06-06, 03:34 PM	Uhhh...why does everyone think that Xykon can cast raise dead? Well he killed and then raised an entire army of hobgoblins. I can't find a good example, but check out comic 193 for an example of him doing it once, and check out 300 to see his army. edit: I take it back, in 300 redcloak is raising the dead, but Xykon definately does it in 193
Richmud 11-06-06, 04:13 PM	Well he killed and then raised an entire army of hobgoblins. I can't find a good example, but check out comic 193 for an example of him doing it once, and check out 300 to see his army. edit: I take it back, in 300 redcloak is raising the dead, but Xykon definately does it in 193 Those are animate dead which makes undead, not raise dead which makes people live again. Also the reference to raise dead in the comic 370 does not appear to me to be a statement on Xykon having the ability to cast that spell. Also being in the OOTS comic gives you a +20 competence bonus on perform (comedy) so everyone doesn't have to spend skill points on it
Michigan 11-06-06, 05:06 PM	Ah, thats right. I got confused by the whole 'nale, not-nale' thing. That's okay, I put ranks in Speak Languages (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0367.html). Here's subtitles: not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. That is not Nale. That is Elan. I helped assasut Elan, not Nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. I bound Elan, whilst Nale framed him. Nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nail by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail. Nale, not Elan, will now finish his plan agianst his brother by leaving Elan in jail.
Warforged Goblin 11-06-06, 05:50 PM	Those are animate dead which makes undead, not raise dead which makes people live again. Also the reference to raise dead in the comic 370 does not appear to me to be a statement on Xykon having the ability to cast that spell. Ya know, the Zombie Lord template from Ravenloft pretty much just makes zombie pop up from anything you kill. And don't even get me started on the Ravenloft liches... (Cuz I don't have the book on me...)
solbergb 11-06-06, 06:27 PM	Xyclon's a sorcerer. He's capable of casting L8 spells minimum, and I'd say L9 is likely. He has limited wish on his list. All sorcerers take limited wish. Therefore he can cast Raise Dead if he wants to. But he has a cleric cohort for that. No sense spending his own xp.
Lyinginbedmon 11-06-06, 07:40 PM	To my knowledge (Which on this subject is fairly comprehensive), Xykon has never once cast Raise Dead. What he has cast many times (Behind the scenes and a couple on-screen, such as #197) is Animate Dead, to produce the Zombies and undead in his army. For example, had he cast Raise Dead on the angel in #197, it would still be an angel, not a zombie (As we clearly see in the artwork and in Xykon's exclamation of "Flying Zombies!")
daota 11-06-06, 09:32 PM	Miko must wear armor of some kind - http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0246.html.
Gharlane 11-06-06, 11:33 PM	Miko must wear armor of some kind - http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0246.html. It's not a chain shirt since it looks different from what Elan wears, but she can still use evasion, so it must be a mithril breastplate.
Endarire 11-09-06, 05:06 PM	To Xykon: Kill her, kill her! Then animate her, animate her! -EE
Lyinginbedmon 11-10-06, 06:50 PM	Based on strip 373, Xykon must have a caster level of around 18th for the forcecage to "last for like a day and a half". There's a target to hit for us :) In other news, looks like the creature in the darkness will finally see some action! That should certainly prove to be an interesting day's worth of replicating
The_Mad_Linguist 11-10-06, 07:40 PM	Based on strip 373, Xykon must have a caster level of around 18th for the forcecage to "last for like a day and a half". There's a target to hit for us :) In other news, looks like the creature in the darkness will finally see some action! That should certainly prove to be an interesting day's worth of replicating So you think the CitD is a shadow or a wraith?
Vanigo 11-10-06, 07:56 PM	I'd say the Order of the Stick rpobably all fall between levels 6-10... they've leveled up twice making them 8-12 as of the most recent stip. About right for them to take on an army, imho. (They'll have tons of Azure City's NPC soldiers with them, so the battle will be epic, but not Epic.)No, they have to be higher level than that. Vaarsuvius picked up power word: blind here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0306.html), so he's at least 13th level.
Endarire 11-10-06, 08:11 PM	V got the power word, but he could've instead scribed a scroll of the spell into her book. -EE
Michigan 11-10-06, 11:40 PM	Actually, the author himself had this to say on the subject Q: What are the character.s D&D stats? Will you ever create character sheets for us to see? A: There are no hard-and-fast stats for the characters. I find that if I were to ever commit exact stats to paper, I would feel limited in what I could have these characters do in the future. For example, I might want to make a strip spoofing a particular feat, only to find that I didn.t give it to any of my characters. As a result, there will never be official game statistics for Roy, Elan, and the rest. As a rule of thumb, I tend to think of them as being around 7th-9th level or so; powerful enough to have a bunch of different storytelling options, weak enough that I can justify them running away from anything I throw at them. So, my initial guess seems to be right-on target. Vaarsuvius need not be able to cast Power Word: Blind in order to copy it into V's spellbook. Vaarsuvius is, imho, probably 9th or 10th level and won't be able to cast 7th levels spells yet. But, given carte blanche to copy spells from Shojo's library, is loading up his/her spell book with all the spells s/he can.
FeceMan 11-11-06, 12:48 AM	The ****? How does Vaarsuvius have a bunch of ninth-level spells, then?
Michigan 11-11-06, 01:06 AM	I don't recall seeing Vaarsuvius actually cast one, althout (s)he might have them written in ye old spellbook. I could be wrong, cite a strip #, if you please.
Kresalak 11-11-06, 01:22 AM	V has cast Disintegrate before, making him a minimum of level 11. They STARTED at level 7-9, and are now at 11-13.
FeceMan 11-11-06, 01:47 AM	It was the one where Vaarsuvius was trying to barter with the Drizz't clone for the 3.0 fly spell.
Surreal 11-11-06, 01:51 AM	I'm just waiting for Miko to flip over to Blackguard...
Lyinginbedmon 11-11-06, 03:33 AM	It was the one where Vaarsuvius was trying to barter with the Drizz't clone for the 3.0 fly spell. #49 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0049.html)
Gharlane 11-11-06, 07:34 AM	V has cast Disintegrate before, making him a minimum of level 11. They STARTED at level 7-9, and are now at 11-13. They started off at level 10 and are now level 12. The first time they leveled-up V gained a spell level, so they had to start at an even number. The next piece of evidence is that post level-up V cast cone of cold, so they had to initially been at least level 8. In the fight vs. Xykon, Durkon cast two 5th level spells, disrupting weapon and righteous might, putting him at at least 10th level (at 9th if righteous might was his domain spell). He wears an amulet of natural armor, so that second spell couldn't have been a bonus spell. Following the second level up, V cast disintigrate twice in a row to defeat the black dragon. The fact that V can cast disintigrate at all means that he was at least 11th level at the time, meaning he couldn't have stated off a level 8, putting his inital level at at least 10. Given that his intelligence following the first level up was 18 and there is no evidence that he has a headband of intellect, he could have only cast two disintigrates if he was level 12 (he later told us that he's a specialist wizard - but it's unlikely that he's a transmuter). Later, Haley took 20 to pick an Amazing (DC 40) lock in an anti-magic field without masterwork picks (a -2 circumstance bonus which was offset by a +2 circumstance bonus from Elan). Even if she started off with a Dex of 17/18 and put all her advancement points into it, she had to be at least level 12 to pick the lock. The best evidence against them currently being higher than 12 is that neither V nor Durkon have ever cast any spells higher that 6th level (except via scroll).
Michigan 11-11-06, 10:42 AM	I hereby concede to Gharlane's crunchy, crunchy goodness. :bow: Vaarsuvius, keeper of a thousand arcance secrets: Specialist Wizard 7 / Loremaster 5 Roy Greenhilt, veteran fighter: Fighter 12 / Masrhall 2 Durkon, always dependable dwarven cleric: Cleric 12 / Fighter 2 Hayley, the roguish archer: Rogue 12 Belkar, the homicidal halfling... who isn't named Durkon (curse you copy-paste demons!): Rogue 3 / Ranger 6 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 Elan, the high-priest of Banjo: Bard 12
Tomada 11-11-06, 11:01 AM	I hereby concede to Gharlane's crunchy, crunchy goodness. :bow: Vaarsuvius, keeper of a thousand arcance secrets: Specialist Wizard 7 / Loremaster 5 Roy Greenhilt, veteran fighter: Fighter 12 / Masrhall 2 Durkon, always dependable dwarven cleric: Cleric 12 / Fighter 2 Hayley, the roguish archer: Rogue 12 Belkar, the homicidal halfling: Rogue 3 / Ranger 6 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 Elan, the high-priest of Banjo: Bard 12 just a correction
Gharlane 11-11-06, 07:39 PM	I hereby concede to Gharlane's crunchy, crunchy goodness. :bow: Vaarsuvius, keeper of a thousand arcance secrets: Specialist Wizard 7 / Loremaster 5 Roy Greenhilt, veteran fighter: Fighter 12 / Masrhall 2 Durkon, always dependable dwarven cleric: Cleric 12 / Fighter 2 Hayley, the roguish archer: Rogue 12 Belkar, the homicidal halfling... who isn't named Durkon (curse you copy-paste demons!): Rogue 3 / Ranger 6 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 Elan, the high-priest of Banjo: Bard 12 Given that they always level up simultaneously they all have to be same level, i.e., level 12. There is no evidence that any of them besides Belkar have multi-classed (and to be honest he plays a lot more like an Assassin than a ranger, i.e., studying his foes and then killing them in one hit). While it's unoptimal he is most likely a Ranger 11 / Barbarian 1. The rest just have 12 levels in the class they identify themselves as (I'll concede that V has the inclinations of a Loremaster but I don't think there is any evidence that he's actually taken levels in the prestige class).
Michigan 11-11-06, 11:10 PM	Durkon and Roy have been adventuring together longeer than they have with the rest of the group... in table terms, I see them as having shown up to the GN's first game, and the rest of the players came the next week. Hence, the 2 level boost. Belkar plays like an assassin, who's DM wouldn't let him take the PrC. ;) He doesn't have an animal companion, iirc, and I've never seen him cast a spell. He's very good at TWFing, so I pegged him as having a few fighter levels... plus, sneak attack seems very Belkar-esque. And lets face it, if any of them are going to try to "optimize" via dips, it's Belkar.
Gharlane 11-12-06, 01:06 AM	He can't cast spells because he only has a Wisdom of 10. After V cast owl's wisdom on him he was able to cast cure serious wounds (Ranger 4) via a scroll. None of the characters are particularly optimized. I mean, Haley's an archer rogue and V has conjuration as a banned school.
fnord 11-12-06, 01:08 AM	V has conjuration as a banned school. In her defense, see picked it in 3.0, when it wasn't nearly as good.
speeblefreak 11-13-06, 10:39 PM	So you think the CitD is a shadow or a wraith? I don't think it could be either one. Incorporeal creatures don't usually have the capacity to punch a paladin (let alone the paladin's overweight horse) through a stone wall. Or to eat things or to get paper cuts.
Lazaro 11-14-06, 12:49 AM	So you think the CitD is a shadow or a wraith? The MitD is obviously a Kobold Divine Minion 1/Wizard 1/Master of Many Forms 3.
Surreal 11-14-06, 12:53 AM	It's most obviously a grue.
Lyinginbedmon 11-14-06, 02:41 AM	I was expecting to see something of it recently, but we've only gotten a showcase of it's high Str score, and that doesn't really narrow things down.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-14-06, 02:43 AM	The common belief on the GitPG forums is that it's pun-pun. Given that the author used to be a denizen of the boards here, it might be his nod to the CO board. Perhaps that's just wishful thinking on my part...
Tenebrous_Sage 11-14-06, 03:04 AM	Well we can always dream, can't we?
Lazaro 11-14-06, 05:15 AM	The MitD (http://melekashiro.multiply.com/photos/hi-res/4/71?xurl=%2Fphotos%2Fphoto%2F4%2F71) http://www.giantitp.com/forums/images/smilies/oots/mitd.gif
Michigan 11-14-06, 09:47 AM	Its a McGuffin, pure and simple.
Lyinginbedmon 11-15-06, 06:40 PM	The MitD (http://melekashiro.multiply.com/photos/hi-res/4/71?xurl=%2Fphotos%2Fphoto%2F4%2F71) http://www.giantitp.com/forums/images/smilies/oots/mitd.gif Yes, we can certainly dream, but how exactly would Burlew continue his storyline if the Order had to face PP? Not to mention the fact that the MitD is portrayed as a virtual simpleton, whilst PP is easily the most intelligent creature in existence.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-15-06, 06:45 PM	Just because Pun-Pun is supremely intelligent doesn't mean he's conquered his kobold inferiority complex which caused him to become pun-pun in the first place. MitD clearly has self-esteem issues, which could cause him to project an undervalued image of himself.
FiestFan 11-15-06, 08:52 PM	Based on strip 373, Xykon must have a caster level of around 18th for the forcecage to "last for like a day and a half". There's a target to hit for us Ahh, but it's apparently a weaker, specially researched spell called 'Xykon's Moderately Escapable Forcecage' (see #376). That makes the level harder to pin, and could easily reduce Xykon's estimated level down to about 15th, which is right about on target for a BBEG against 12th level adventurers.
Michigan 11-15-06, 09:04 PM	Ahh, but it's apparently a weaker, specially researched spell called 'Xykon's Moderately Escapable Forcecage' (see #376). That makes the level harder to pin, and could easily reduce Xykon's estimated level down to about 15th, which is right about on target for a BBEG against 12th level adventurers. But, he's been the BBEG since the beginning of the strip, when they were much lower level. They clearly aren't going to get to confront him directly until the very end... if indeed they ever do. I still like him at 20th, enough power to be a penultimate baddie, but not quite enough to require the Epic Level Handbook.
The_Mad_Linguist 11-15-06, 09:51 PM	Personally, I think the MitD is a rage mage with low mental stats. Powerful, but not overly so (really high strength is great, but still defeatable).
Malcoren 11-15-06, 10:32 PM	"Xykon must have a caster level of around 18th for the forcecage to "last for like a day and a half". There's a target to hit for us " Nah. It's a skill called Bluff. You see, the spell might last for only minutes per level as far as we know. He expected her to escape quickly, so doesn't require a long duration on the spell. That and it's "modified" status tells us nothing about his or its level, aside from that it's probably nowhere close to the real Forcecage.
Lyinginbedmon 11-24-06, 12:13 PM	Well, from the latest strip (#370) we can see that not only does Sabine retain her mysterious Devil/Demon cloak, but she is between 9th and 13th level. These are the levels need for Cleric (9th), Wizard (13th) or Sorcerer (14th) castings of Plane Shift. Since she mentions she can only cast it once per day, I believe Sabine may actually be a 13th level Wizard, which is odd because it detracts from bonus spells and save DCs she would get major bonuses on from being a charisma-based Sorcerer... Obviously she has both boobs and brains :P From this we can also determine that she must have an Intelligence less than 24 (The minimum Int for a 7th level bonus spell) or a Wisdom less than 20 (For a 5th, assuming Cleric levels)
Richmud 11-24-06, 03:09 PM	Well, from the latest strip (#370) we can see that not only does Sabine retain her mysterious Devil/Demon cloak, but she is between 9th and 13th level. These are the levels need for Cleric (9th), Wizard (13th) or Sorcerer (14th) castings of Plane Shift. Since she mentions she can only cast it once per day, I believe Sabine may actually be a 13th level Wizard, which is odd because it detracts from bonus spells and save DCs she would get major bonuses on from being a charisma-based Sorcerer... Obviously she has both boobs and brains :P From this we can also determine that she must have an Intelligence less than 24 (The minimum Int for a 7th level bonus spell) or a Wisdom less than 20 (For a 5th, assuming Cleric levels) It could just be a spell-like ability of whatever type of fiend she is, some of them do have it
Lyinginbedmon 11-24-06, 03:54 PM	Perhaps, but neither of the most likelies (Erinyes and Succubus) do
Green_eyes 11-24-06, 04:14 PM	Belkar is a straight (do NOT think about THAT kiss) ranger. Now he got a level in barbarian. In one of the strims in Dragon he says specifically, he doesn't have Bluff on his list of class skills
Toloran 11-24-06, 04:17 PM	Belkar is a straight (do NOT think about THAT kiss) ranger. Now he got a level in barbarian. In one of the strims in Dragon he says specifically, he doesn't have Bluff on his list of class skills No, but he DID take ranks in Craft (Disturbing Imagery).
Green_eyes 11-24-06, 05:44 PM	Now that is something i try not to think about...
Michigan 11-24-06, 06:38 PM	Belkar is a straight (do NOT think about THAT kiss) ranger. Now he got a level in barbarian. In one of the strims in Dragon he says specifically, he doesn't have Bluff on his list of class skills Personally, I belong to the camp that belives Vaarsuvius is female.
Lyinginbedmon 11-24-06, 06:51 PM	Personally, I belong to the camp that belives Vaarsuvius is female. Fortunately we live in a world where D&D makes no distinction between male and female beyond the RP aspect.
Zemyla 11-24-06, 08:18 PM	It might make a difference if V tried to qualify for Beloved of Valarian.
megageek 11-24-06, 08:33 PM	She might have ranks in archmage because she seems pretty good at aiming those fireballs!
Lyinginbedmon 11-24-06, 08:40 PM	That would make a lot more sense if Archmage actually aided aiming spells in any way (Arcane Reach being the sole exception, and even then it doesn't apply to Fireball)
megageek 11-24-06, 11:01 PM	Spell shaping is what I meant.
Michigan 11-24-06, 11:37 PM	No, it's Loremaster, all the way.
Richmud 11-25-06, 12:28 AM	No, but he DID take ranks in Craft (Disturbing Imagery). Thats a feat: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0249.html
Green_eyes 11-25-06, 09:34 AM	Varsuvius... One can never tell... Can you? http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html
Green_eyes 11-25-06, 10:15 AM	Ok, Vaarsuvius IS male Chech this out: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0028.html And take notice of the "I always suspected line" He is male.
NoldorForce 11-25-06, 11:17 AM	Rich has explained that sort of thing as the opinions of others. For instance, when V had been in the below-cost magic shop, he/she had been referred to as female.
PhaedrusXY 11-25-06, 01:04 PM	Ok, Vaarsuvius IS male Chech this out: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0028.html And take notice of the "I always suspected line" He is male.I take that to mean that Belkar thinks V is a homosexual male. (You know, the whole "pansy elf"/fairy stereotype.)
Lyinginbedmon 11-25-06, 01:15 PM	Additionally, neither of those strips actually show that V is either male or female (Though I'll admit that homosexuality (#028) is something unseen in OotS)
Michigan 11-25-06, 07:04 PM	In truth, Vaarsuvius' gender will remain an unresolved issue for the duration, much like the "McGuffin" MitD. Still, I just want V to be female, thus, I will argue that (s)he is. :D Dispell Logic Wiz/Sor 1, Bard 2