A 2nd level character that can deal more than 100 damage per hit?! [Archive] - Wizards Community

A 2nd level character that can deal more than 100 damage per hit?! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
grimreapercactus
10-18-06, 07:44 PM Is it just me or are goliaths ridiculously good?

A couple of days ago I picked up Races of Stone and put together a goliath barbarian. Even at 1st level (ECL 2) he can deal insane amounts of damage.

Build: the Wrathhammer
Goliath Barbarian 1 (racial class level) (ECL 2)
Relavant stats: 16 hp (1d12+4); Str 22 (18 + 4 racial), Con 18 (16 + 2 racial)
Feats: Extra Rage (CWar) (flaw: shaky), Improved Weapon Familiarity (for the amazing goliath greathammer), Reckless Rage (RoS) (flaw: poor reflexes)
Assuming the DMG listed wealth of 900 gp, he could afford a masterwork greathammer and a couple potions of bull's strength, and still have enough for some armor and other basics.

Without potion:
Attack: Masterwork greathammer +8 melee (+1 BAB, +6 Str, +1 masterwork)
Damage: 3d6+9/x4 (average 19, max 27, average crit 76, max crit 108)

With potion:
Attack: Masterwork greathammer +10 melee (+1 BAB, +8 Str, +1 masterwork)
Damage: 3d6+12/x4 (average 22, max 30, average crit 88, max crit 120)

Mountain Rage (3/day, Large size (for 10 ft reach) and +8 Str/+6 Con with Reckless Rage feat and mountain rage racial class feature) and potion:
Attack: Masterwork greathammer +13 melee (+1 BAB, -1 size, +12 Str, +1 masterwork)
Damage: 3d6+18/x4 (average 28, max 36, average crit 112, max crit 144)

I'd love to throw a couple of these guys at my players (party of 5th-7th level), but i doubt they'd thank me for bludgeoning half of them to death in a few hits.
I can't help but wonder what would happen if you got a bunch of these guys together into a fighting unit with some heavily armored and tower-shielded dwarves for defense, and maybe a healer or two.:P
Prominence
10-18-06, 07:47 PM so... you're amazed someone can do really high damage with good strength, rage, a potion, and a natural 20 on an attack and succeeding on confirmation roll?

Hell if you're relying on natural 20s why not buy a mount and use a lance?
grimreapercactus
10-18-06, 07:48 PM EDIT: note that the flaws and bonus feats aren't even necessary to achieve pretty much the same effect. They just make him even better (Extra Rage is especially nice for PCs). All you really need is a goliath that can rage and use a greathammer.
grimreapercactus
10-18-06, 07:52 PM The fact is that ANY successful melee hit is going to kill pretty much anything of his CR. The critical is just ridiculous overkill.

(Seriously, this is the optimization boards. Plus, 18 strength is pretty standard for melee characters i'm familiar with)
Prominence
10-18-06, 07:55 PM Yes, this is the OP board. Most records here are set by average damage. Usually saying 'If I roll natural 20s and 18s in stats and...' results in a 'meh.'

You could just as easily point out a wizard with colorspray can make you basically dead in a standard action without moving.
Or a half-orc paladin with 18 str and power attack with a lance on a mount can do insane amounts if he rolls a natural 20. Or if you removed improved weapon familiarity for power attack and used a scythe your damage would be probably be higher since you're relying on 20/x4
AngelofCthulhu
10-18-06, 08:04 PM You forgot sleep. Tim will sleep him then ping him to a pathetic death. Hehe. Sleep is so overpowered early game.
grimreapercactus
10-18-06, 08:09 PM You make good points, and I agree that it is rather unlikely. And yes, without the potion or the rage his average critical damage is less than 100, and the average damage a mere 19. But i think even a normal goliath using elite stats and sporting a greathammer could put the fear of god into low-level pcs.

So what does that say about low level combat? In your scenario, if he fails his save, he effectively dies. If he doesn't he probably kills everyone starting with the fighter. I'm rather glad i've never played starting from 1st level in 3 or 3.5
grimreapercactus
10-18-06, 08:11 PM You forgot sleep. Tim will sleep him then ping him to a pathetic death. Hehe. Sleep is so overpowered early game.

Haha true that.
Prominence
10-18-06, 08:15 PM Well, actually in a combat he would never win unless he rolls non-stop 20s I guess.

case1: your guy wins init, chugs potion. Wizard casts enlarge person on fighter, fighter charges and kills your goliath due to bad level 1 hp. Ranger shoots goliath before fighter gets there and kills him.

Case 2: good guys win init. Fighter charges your goliath, archer shoots him, wizard hits your entire group with color spray and you're all stunned 1d4 rounds and moves on to looting.

Case 3: you chug the potion before-hand, and the fighter breaks down the door. Even if you win initiative and the fighter hits negatives, you will be screwed by the wizard who can now cast freely without fear of hitting his party since the fighter is unconscious anyway. Or the fighter has combat reflexes and decent armor, as well as protection from evil cast putting his AC well above 22, meaning you have about a 40% chance to hit him or worse.

Case 4: as above, but the fighter is enlarged using a spiked chain. He gets an AoO since his reach is greater and trips you, so your great plan is foiled and the party promptly eviscerates you.

Losing your first round to potion chugging sucks. Now, he wouldn't be alone in all these situations, obviously, but the PCs have tons of ways to fight this including bottlenecking. This proves what is essentially true at all levels - initiative and battlefield control rules supreme.
Zendu
10-18-06, 08:17 PM Oh ya? Heres a build at level two that can KILL EVERY ROUND

1).wizard2
2).scroll of power word:kill
3).ignore logic/playability
4).?????
5).profit!
PhaedrusXY
10-18-06, 09:01 PM I once made a level 3 CORE build that could do 100 damage EVERY ROUND WITHOUT CRITS and no magic items. Go look in Surreal's "Handy Links for CO work" for "the Level 3 Challenge!"
Tleilaxu_Ghola
10-18-06, 09:23 PM Race: Azurin
Feats: Expanded Soulmeld Capacity, Weapon Focus (Claw), Leap of the Heavens
Build: Totemist 2/Ranger 1

Tactic: Landshark boots, bound to totem chakra => +3 enhancement bonus on 4 claw attacks all at highest BAB.

Assuming 16 STR that's +9 [+3 STR + 3 Enhancement + 2 BAB + 1 Focus] to four claw attacks.

Avg Damage: 4*[3 STR + 1d6 + 3 Enhancement] = 4*9.5 = 38 dmg with a single std action.
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer
10-18-06, 09:24 PM I once made a level 3 CORE build that could do 100 damage EVERY ROUND WITHOUT CRITS and no magic items. Go look in Surreal's "Handy Links for CO work" for "the Level 3 Challenge!"
Hmm I can't find it. Perhaps you could link to it?
Zaruthustran
10-18-06, 09:30 PM I once made a level 3 CORE build that could do 100 damage EVERY ROUND WITHOUT CRITS and no magic items. Go look in Surreal's "Handy Links for CO work" for "the Level 3 Challenge!"

Found Surreal's thread, but that challenge isn't there.

Link, please?
PhaedrusXY
10-18-06, 09:37 PM Bah, I don't have a link. It was a fighter/barbarian with Spirited Charge, Power Attack, and Ride-By-Attack using a lance 2-handed.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
10-18-06, 09:46 PM Hmm... assuming 18 starting strength, +4 from rage = +6 mod, +1d8 from the lance and perhaps a +1 lance... and fully power attacking...

That's 3*[8 STR + 1 enhancement + 6 power attack + 1d8] = 45 + 3d8 = 57.5

I don't see how you could get 100 damage out of that. I was being generous on the strength and +1 even... Even if you were able to pump the strength mod to +10 (quite the feat), that would give only (15+7+4.5)*3 = 79.5.

Did you have another multiplier in there somehow?
PhaedrusXY
10-18-06, 09:49 PM Orc is core. They get +4 racial Str. I don't remember the rest of it, and I don't have time to go through figuring it all out again. Maybe potions were allowed, and I remembered incorrectly or something. I know it was about 100 damage, though. I don't remember the exact number.
FromTheShadows
10-18-06, 10:08 PM Pardon me here, but I can't resist.

How You Can Do Up to 120 Damage With a Second Level Character:

Step 1: Find a second-level character. The fatter, the better.
Step 2: Kill the second-level character.
Step 3: Find a cliff at least 200 feet tall.
Step 4: Get someone to stand at the bottom of the cliff.
Step 5: Drop the dead second-level character off the cliff.
Step 6: Deal 20d6 damage using (the corpse of) a second level character!

Even better, you can do this at level 1 with a commoner with subpar stats!
Prominence
10-18-06, 10:16 PM You have to be 210 feet, as iirc the first 10 feet doesn't count.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
10-18-06, 10:42 PM Oh, well if you want to get into THAAT argument...

The fat friar has y'all beat. Cleric with war-domain pigs out on KFC all day to max his weight, then dons full plate and then uses enlarge person to increase his weight by eight times. Some optimization leads to a 11' jump, which then initiates the weight-based damage from CWar which makes the hulking hurler work. IIRC, this also produces damage figures in the triple digits.
PhaedrusXY
10-18-06, 10:46 PM I think one version of mine took a level of Wizard to get Enlarge person... but then you need an elephant for a mount, or some other Huge critter.

For hilarity's sake, nothing beats the farmer with a herd of stampeding cows. :D
Stampede (Ex)
A frightened herd of bison flees as a group in a random direction (but always away from the perceived source of danger). They literally run over anything of Large size or smaller that gets in their way, dealing 1d12 points of damage for each five bison in the herd (Reflex DC 18 half). The save DC is Strength-based.
thorian
10-19-06, 01:23 AM There's always the "bag full of alchemist fires" trick.
Timespike
10-19-06, 01:32 AM Is it just me or are goliaths ridiculously good?

A couple of days ago I picked up Races of Stone and put together a goliath barbarian. Even at 1st level (ECL 2) he can deal insane amounts of damage.

Build: the Wrathhammer
Goliath Barbarian 1 (racial class level) (ECL 2)
Relavant stats: 16 hp (1d12+4); Str 22 (18 + 4 racial), Con 18 (16 + 2 racial)
Feats: Extra Rage (CWar) (flaw: shaky), Improved Weapon Familiarity (for the amazing goliath greathammer), Reckless Rage (RoS) (flaw: poor reflexes)
Assuming the DMG listed wealth of 900 gp, he could afford a masterwork greathammer and a couple potions of bull's strength, and still have enough for some armor and other basics.

Without potion:
Attack: Masterwork greathammer +8 melee (+1 BAB, +6 Str, +1 masterwork)
Damage: 3d6+9/x4 (average 19, max 27, average crit 76, max crit 108)

With potion:
Attack: Masterwork greathammer +10 melee (+1 BAB, +8 Str, +1 masterwork)
Damage: 3d6+12/x4 (average 22, max 30, average crit 88, max crit 120)

Mountain Rage (3/day, Large size (for 10 ft reach) and +8 Str/+6 Con with Reckless Rage feat and mountain rage racial class feature) and potion:
Attack: Masterwork greathammer +13 melee (+1 BAB, -1 size, +12 Str, +1 masterwork)
Damage: 3d6+18/x4 (average 28, max 36, average crit 112, max crit 144)

I'd love to throw a couple of these guys at my players (party of 5th-7th level), but i doubt they'd thank me for bludgeoning half of them to death in a few hits.
I can't help but wonder what would happen if you got a bunch of these guys together into a fighting unit with some heavily armored and tower-shielded dwarves for defense, and maybe a healer or two.:P

Use reckless rage (from races of stone) instead of extra rage. Makes the STR bonus go up to +8 when raging.
Dark Brandon
10-19-06, 05:56 AM Use reckless rage (from races of stone) instead of extra rage. Makes the STR bonus go up to +8 when raging.

Take the goliaths barb. sub. level, which makes you "large" when you rage.
X-Codes
10-19-06, 07:43 AM Take the goliaths barb. sub. level, which makes you "large" when you rage.
That really only gives you reach, since goliaths are already considered large for so many things and it doesn't increase the size of the hammer (and no, you can't use a huge hammer, he loses his powerful build ability while raging).
Senevri
10-19-06, 10:17 AM Hmm. A lv1 Orc Warblade wielding a 2h-sword:

str... let's say, 18 (16+racial)
Feat: Rapid Assault
Punishing Stance + Sapphire Nightmare Blade:

5d6+6, average 22.5.

Eh. But, it has nothing one needs to regret later.
With two flaws, and Goliath as a race, with 18 base str,
using that Greathammer - which would seem to be 3d6/x4?
we _could_ get this up to...

7d6+10, average 34,5,
by picking a Martial Study on desert wind:Burning Blade, and
Feat: Desert Fire.

On charge, AB would be +10, without any rage or potions or whatnot.

...Hmm. Goliaths _do_ seem to make half-orcs a bit redundant, looking at STR only... Ah, wait, is that a
LA I see there? Yes, yes it is.

Well then! A comparative half-orc would be lv2, and that opens up all kinds of possibilities - including a
single level of Barbarian!

So, our example up there would have... starting with 18 base STR -
6d6 + 12, with equal AB - or 33, with AC higher by one, as well as fort save, and a level closer to getting
2nd level maneuvers.
Timespike
10-19-06, 10:26 AM That really only gives you reach, since goliaths are already considered large for so many things and it doesn't increase the size of the hammer (and no, you can't use a huge hammer, he loses his powerful build ability while raging).

I thought you alread HAD taken the goliath barb level.

Normal rage: +4 STR, +4 Con
Reckless rage: +6 STR, +6 Con
Reckless rage and Goliath Barb level: +8 STR, +6 CON

Trust me, you want that. You lose fast movement and gain extra reach and extra STR when raging. That's pretty good, especially if you pick up something that advances your rage and you wind up with 20 effective raging levels, giving you +12 STR and +10 CON when you rage...
Naanomi
10-19-06, 11:49 AM Hrm... a bit off topic but... does that mean that a Goliath using the Mountain Rage ability (and thus becoming large) can then have the Monkey Grip feat (which normally doesn't stack with Powerful Build) to use Huge weapons while frenzying? Or a psionic warrior/barbarian can double enlarge and...
Timespike
10-19-06, 01:21 PM Hrm... a bit off topic but... does that mean that a Goliath using the Mountain Rage ability (and thus becoming large) can then have the Monkey Grip feat (which normally doesn't stack with Powerful Build) to use Huge weapons while frenzying? Or a psionic warrior/barbarian can double enlarge and...

I don't see why not, but you'd better be able to rage whenever you want to; toting that massive hamer around is going to be a massive pain in the ass, otherwise.
Anauroch
10-19-06, 01:33 PM Go Goliath Barbarian 2 / Psychic Warrior 4 (at least). Get practiced manifester. Get monkey grip and wield a great hammer.

Manifest augmented Expansion. Rage. Now you are a gargantuan-sized barbarian wielding a colossal great hammer dealing 8d6 damage per hit. Ouch.

Buy an ox cart on which you put the great hammer when not raging. :D

Probably it would be more effective to go with a large great hammer and put more into power attack. Those extra 7 points of damage on average that one size larger grants are more than investing that -2 penalty into power attack for 4 damage. On the other hand you can decide not to use power attack and make hitting more likely if your foe has a high AC.
Zemyla
10-19-06, 04:58 PM Race: Azurin
Feats: Expanded Soulmeld Capacity, Weapon Focus (Claw), Leap of the Heavens
Build: Totemist 2/Ranger 1

Tactic: Landshark boots, bound to totem chakra => +3 enhancement bonus on 4 claw attacks all at highest BAB.

Assuming 16 STR that's +9 [+3 STR + 3 Enhancement + 2 BAB + 1 Focus] to four claw attacks.

Avg Damage: 4*[3 STR + 1d6 + 3 Enhancement] = 4*9.5 = 38 dmg with a single std action.
Why ranger instead of scout? That'll add another 3.5 damage to each claw attack, giving you 4*13 = 52 damage.
Surreal
10-19-06, 06:29 PM I once made a level 3 CORE build that could do 100 damage EVERY ROUND WITHOUT CRITS and no magic items. Go look in Surreal's "Handy Links for CO work" for "the Level 3 Challenge!"
That one's actually not directly in my collection (though I'll add it next update). It is in my "optimal builds for each level" thread though. Here's a direct link: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=698156
PhaedrusXY
10-19-06, 08:10 PM That one's actually not directly in my collection (though I'll add it next update). It is in my "optimal builds for each level" thread though. Here's a direct link: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=698156Ah, I guess mine dropped to 80 in the end, after I found an error. :P Thanks Surreal!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
grimreapercactus 10-18-06, 07:44 PM	Is it just me or are goliaths ridiculously good? A couple of days ago I picked up Races of Stone and put together a goliath barbarian. Even at 1st level (ECL 2) he can deal insane amounts of damage. Build: the Wrathhammer Goliath Barbarian 1 (racial class level) (ECL 2) Relavant stats: 16 hp (1d12+4); Str 22 (18 + 4 racial), Con 18 (16 + 2 racial) Feats: Extra Rage (CWar) (flaw: shaky), Improved Weapon Familiarity (for the amazing goliath greathammer), Reckless Rage (RoS) (flaw: poor reflexes) Assuming the DMG listed wealth of 900 gp, he could afford a masterwork greathammer and a couple potions of bull's strength, and still have enough for some armor and other basics. Without potion: Attack: Masterwork greathammer +8 melee (+1 BAB, +6 Str, +1 masterwork) Damage: 3d6+9/x4 (average 19, max 27, average crit 76, max crit 108) With potion: Attack: Masterwork greathammer +10 melee (+1 BAB, +8 Str, +1 masterwork) Damage: 3d6+12/x4 (average 22, max 30, average crit 88, max crit 120) Mountain Rage (3/day, Large size (for 10 ft reach) and +8 Str/+6 Con with Reckless Rage feat and mountain rage racial class feature) and potion: Attack: Masterwork greathammer +13 melee (+1 BAB, -1 size, +12 Str, +1 masterwork) Damage: 3d6+18/x4 (average 28, max 36, average crit 112, max crit 144) I'd love to throw a couple of these guys at my players (party of 5th-7th level), but i doubt they'd thank me for bludgeoning half of them to death in a few hits. I can't help but wonder what would happen if you got a bunch of these guys together into a fighting unit with some heavily armored and tower-shielded dwarves for defense, and maybe a healer or two.:P
Prominence 10-18-06, 07:47 PM	so... you're amazed someone can do really high damage with good strength, rage, a potion, and a natural 20 on an attack and succeeding on confirmation roll? Hell if you're relying on natural 20s why not buy a mount and use a lance?
grimreapercactus 10-18-06, 07:48 PM	EDIT: note that the flaws and bonus feats aren't even necessary to achieve pretty much the same effect. They just make him even better (Extra Rage is especially nice for PCs). All you really need is a goliath that can rage and use a greathammer.
grimreapercactus 10-18-06, 07:52 PM	The fact is that ANY successful melee hit is going to kill pretty much anything of his CR. The critical is just ridiculous overkill. (Seriously, this is the optimization boards. Plus, 18 strength is pretty standard for melee characters i'm familiar with)
Prominence 10-18-06, 07:55 PM	Yes, this is the OP board. Most records here are set by average damage. Usually saying 'If I roll natural 20s and 18s in stats and...' results in a 'meh.' You could just as easily point out a wizard with colorspray can make you basically dead in a standard action without moving. Or a half-orc paladin with 18 str and power attack with a lance on a mount can do insane amounts if he rolls a natural 20. Or if you removed improved weapon familiarity for power attack and used a scythe your damage would be probably be higher since you're relying on 20/x4
AngelofCthulhu 10-18-06, 08:04 PM	You forgot sleep. Tim will sleep him then ping him to a pathetic death. Hehe. Sleep is so overpowered early game.
grimreapercactus 10-18-06, 08:09 PM	You make good points, and I agree that it is rather unlikely. And yes, without the potion or the rage his average critical damage is less than 100, and the average damage a mere 19. But i think even a normal goliath using elite stats and sporting a greathammer could put the fear of god into low-level pcs. So what does that say about low level combat? In your scenario, if he fails his save, he effectively dies. If he doesn't he probably kills everyone starting with the fighter. I'm rather glad i've never played starting from 1st level in 3 or 3.5
grimreapercactus 10-18-06, 08:11 PM	You forgot sleep. Tim will sleep him then ping him to a pathetic death. Hehe. Sleep is so overpowered early game. Haha true that.
Prominence 10-18-06, 08:15 PM	Well, actually in a combat he would never win unless he rolls non-stop 20s I guess. case1: your guy wins init, chugs potion. Wizard casts enlarge person on fighter, fighter charges and kills your goliath due to bad level 1 hp. Ranger shoots goliath before fighter gets there and kills him. Case 2: good guys win init. Fighter charges your goliath, archer shoots him, wizard hits your entire group with color spray and you're all stunned 1d4 rounds and moves on to looting. Case 3: you chug the potion before-hand, and the fighter breaks down the door. Even if you win initiative and the fighter hits negatives, you will be screwed by the wizard who can now cast freely without fear of hitting his party since the fighter is unconscious anyway. Or the fighter has combat reflexes and decent armor, as well as protection from evil cast putting his AC well above 22, meaning you have about a 40% chance to hit him or worse. Case 4: as above, but the fighter is enlarged using a spiked chain. He gets an AoO since his reach is greater and trips you, so your great plan is foiled and the party promptly eviscerates you. Losing your first round to potion chugging sucks. Now, he wouldn't be alone in all these situations, obviously, but the PCs have tons of ways to fight this including bottlenecking. This proves what is essentially true at all levels - initiative and battlefield control rules supreme.
Zendu 10-18-06, 08:17 PM	Oh ya? Heres a build at level two that can KILL EVERY ROUND 1).wizard2 2).scroll of power word:kill 3).ignore logic/playability 4).????? 5).profit!
PhaedrusXY 10-18-06, 09:01 PM	I once made a level 3 CORE build that could do 100 damage EVERY ROUND WITHOUT CRITS and no magic items. Go look in Surreal's "Handy Links for CO work" for "the Level 3 Challenge!"
Tleilaxu_Ghola 10-18-06, 09:23 PM	Race: Azurin Feats: Expanded Soulmeld Capacity, Weapon Focus (Claw), Leap of the Heavens Build: Totemist 2/Ranger 1 Tactic: Landshark boots, bound to totem chakra => +3 enhancement bonus on 4 claw attacks all at highest BAB. Assuming 16 STR that's +9 [+3 STR + 3 Enhancement + 2 BAB + 1 Focus] to four claw attacks. Avg Damage: 4[3 STR + 1d6 + 3 Enhancement] = 49.5 = 38 dmg with a single std action.
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer 10-18-06, 09:24 PM	I once made a level 3 CORE build that could do 100 damage EVERY ROUND WITHOUT CRITS and no magic items. Go look in Surreal's "Handy Links for CO work" for "the Level 3 Challenge!" Hmm I can't find it. Perhaps you could link to it?
Zaruthustran 10-18-06, 09:30 PM	I once made a level 3 CORE build that could do 100 damage EVERY ROUND WITHOUT CRITS and no magic items. Go look in Surreal's "Handy Links for CO work" for "the Level 3 Challenge!" Found Surreal's thread, but that challenge isn't there. Link, please?
PhaedrusXY 10-18-06, 09:37 PM	Bah, I don't have a link. It was a fighter/barbarian with Spirited Charge, Power Attack, and Ride-By-Attack using a lance 2-handed.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 10-18-06, 09:46 PM	Hmm... assuming 18 starting strength, +4 from rage = +6 mod, +1d8 from the lance and perhaps a +1 lance... and fully power attacking... That's 3[8 STR + 1 enhancement + 6 power attack + 1d8] = 45 + 3d8 = 57.5 I don't see how you could get 100 damage out of that. I was being generous on the strength and +1 even... Even if you were able to pump the strength mod to +10 (quite the feat), that would give only (15+7+4.5)3 = 79.5. Did you have another multiplier in there somehow?
PhaedrusXY 10-18-06, 09:49 PM	Orc is core. They get +4 racial Str. I don't remember the rest of it, and I don't have time to go through figuring it all out again. Maybe potions were allowed, and I remembered incorrectly or something. I know it was about 100 damage, though. I don't remember the exact number.
FromTheShadows 10-18-06, 10:08 PM	Pardon me here, but I can't resist. How You Can Do Up to 120 Damage With a Second Level Character: Step 1: Find a second-level character. The fatter, the better. Step 2: Kill the second-level character. Step 3: Find a cliff at least 200 feet tall. Step 4: Get someone to stand at the bottom of the cliff. Step 5: Drop the dead second-level character off the cliff. Step 6: Deal 20d6 damage using (the corpse of) a second level character! Even better, you can do this at level 1 with a commoner with subpar stats!
Prominence 10-18-06, 10:16 PM	You have to be 210 feet, as iirc the first 10 feet doesn't count.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 10-18-06, 10:42 PM	Oh, well if you want to get into THAAT argument... The fat friar has y'all beat. Cleric with war-domain pigs out on KFC all day to max his weight, then dons full plate and then uses enlarge person to increase his weight by eight times. Some optimization leads to a 11' jump, which then initiates the weight-based damage from CWar which makes the hulking hurler work. IIRC, this also produces damage figures in the triple digits.
PhaedrusXY 10-18-06, 10:46 PM	I think one version of mine took a level of Wizard to get Enlarge person... but then you need an elephant for a mount, or some other Huge critter. For hilarity's sake, nothing beats the farmer with a herd of stampeding cows. :D Stampede (Ex) A frightened herd of bison flees as a group in a random direction (but always away from the perceived source of danger). They literally run over anything of Large size or smaller that gets in their way, dealing 1d12 points of damage for each five bison in the herd (Reflex DC 18 half). The save DC is Strength-based.
thorian 10-19-06, 01:23 AM	There's always the "bag full of alchemist fires" trick.
Timespike 10-19-06, 01:32 AM	Is it just me or are goliaths ridiculously good? A couple of days ago I picked up Races of Stone and put together a goliath barbarian. Even at 1st level (ECL 2) he can deal insane amounts of damage. Build: the Wrathhammer Goliath Barbarian 1 (racial class level) (ECL 2) Relavant stats: 16 hp (1d12+4); Str 22 (18 + 4 racial), Con 18 (16 + 2 racial) Feats: Extra Rage (CWar) (flaw: shaky), Improved Weapon Familiarity (for the amazing goliath greathammer), Reckless Rage (RoS) (flaw: poor reflexes) Assuming the DMG listed wealth of 900 gp, he could afford a masterwork greathammer and a couple potions of bull's strength, and still have enough for some armor and other basics. Without potion: Attack: Masterwork greathammer +8 melee (+1 BAB, +6 Str, +1 masterwork) Damage: 3d6+9/x4 (average 19, max 27, average crit 76, max crit 108) With potion: Attack: Masterwork greathammer +10 melee (+1 BAB, +8 Str, +1 masterwork) Damage: 3d6+12/x4 (average 22, max 30, average crit 88, max crit 120) Mountain Rage (3/day, Large size (for 10 ft reach) and +8 Str/+6 Con with Reckless Rage feat and mountain rage racial class feature) and potion: Attack: Masterwork greathammer +13 melee (+1 BAB, -1 size, +12 Str, +1 masterwork) Damage: 3d6+18/x4 (average 28, max 36, average crit 112, max crit 144) I'd love to throw a couple of these guys at my players (party of 5th-7th level), but i doubt they'd thank me for bludgeoning half of them to death in a few hits. I can't help but wonder what would happen if you got a bunch of these guys together into a fighting unit with some heavily armored and tower-shielded dwarves for defense, and maybe a healer or two.:P Use reckless rage (from races of stone) instead of extra rage. Makes the STR bonus go up to +8 when raging.
Dark Brandon 10-19-06, 05:56 AM	Use reckless rage (from races of stone) instead of extra rage. Makes the STR bonus go up to +8 when raging. Take the goliaths barb. sub. level, which makes you "large" when you rage.
X-Codes 10-19-06, 07:43 AM	Take the goliaths barb. sub. level, which makes you "large" when you rage. That really only gives you reach, since goliaths are already considered large for so many things and it doesn't increase the size of the hammer (and no, you can't use a huge hammer, he loses his powerful build ability while raging).
Senevri 10-19-06, 10:17 AM	Hmm. A lv1 Orc Warblade wielding a 2h-sword: str... let's say, 18 (16+racial) Feat: Rapid Assault Punishing Stance + Sapphire Nightmare Blade: 5d6+6, average 22.5. Eh. But, it has nothing one needs to regret later. With two flaws, and Goliath as a race, with 18 base str, using that Greathammer - which would seem to be 3d6/x4? we _could_ get this up to... 7d6+10, average 34,5, by picking a Martial Study on desert wind:Burning Blade, and Feat: Desert Fire. On charge, AB would be +10, without any rage or potions or whatnot. ...Hmm. Goliaths _do_ seem to make half-orcs a bit redundant, looking at STR only... Ah, wait, is that a LA I see there? Yes, yes it is. Well then! A comparative half-orc would be lv2, and that opens up all kinds of possibilities - including a single level of Barbarian! So, our example up there would have... starting with 18 base STR - 6d6 + 12, with equal AB - or 33, with AC higher by one, as well as fort save, and a level closer to getting 2nd level maneuvers.
Timespike 10-19-06, 10:26 AM	That really only gives you reach, since goliaths are already considered large for so many things and it doesn't increase the size of the hammer (and no, you can't use a huge hammer, he loses his powerful build ability while raging). I thought you alread HAD taken the goliath barb level. Normal rage: +4 STR, +4 Con Reckless rage: +6 STR, +6 Con Reckless rage and Goliath Barb level: +8 STR, +6 CON Trust me, you want that. You lose fast movement and gain extra reach and extra STR when raging. That's pretty good, especially if you pick up something that advances your rage and you wind up with 20 effective raging levels, giving you +12 STR and +10 CON when you rage...
Naanomi 10-19-06, 11:49 AM	Hrm... a bit off topic but... does that mean that a Goliath using the Mountain Rage ability (and thus becoming large) can then have the Monkey Grip feat (which normally doesn't stack with Powerful Build) to use Huge weapons while frenzying? Or a psionic warrior/barbarian can double enlarge and...
Timespike 10-19-06, 01:21 PM	Hrm... a bit off topic but... does that mean that a Goliath using the Mountain Rage ability (and thus becoming large) can then have the Monkey Grip feat (which normally doesn't stack with Powerful Build) to use Huge weapons while frenzying? Or a psionic warrior/barbarian can double enlarge and... I don't see why not, but you'd better be able to rage whenever you want to; toting that massive hamer around is going to be a massive pain in the ass, otherwise.
Anauroch 10-19-06, 01:33 PM	Go Goliath Barbarian 2 / Psychic Warrior 4 (at least). Get practiced manifester. Get monkey grip and wield a great hammer. Manifest augmented Expansion. Rage. Now you are a gargantuan-sized barbarian wielding a colossal great hammer dealing 8d6 damage per hit. Ouch. Buy an ox cart on which you put the great hammer when not raging. :D Probably it would be more effective to go with a large great hammer and put more into power attack. Those extra 7 points of damage on average that one size larger grants are more than investing that -2 penalty into power attack for 4 damage. On the other hand you can decide not to use power attack and make hitting more likely if your foe has a high AC.
Zemyla 10-19-06, 04:58 PM	Race: Azurin Feats: Expanded Soulmeld Capacity, Weapon Focus (Claw), Leap of the Heavens Build: Totemist 2/Ranger 1 Tactic: Landshark boots, bound to totem chakra => +3 enhancement bonus on 4 claw attacks all at highest BAB. Assuming 16 STR that's +9 [+3 STR + 3 Enhancement + 2 BAB + 1 Focus] to four claw attacks. Avg Damage: 4[3 STR + 1d6 + 3 Enhancement] = 49.5 = 38 dmg with a single std action. Why ranger instead of scout? That'll add another 3.5 damage to each claw attack, giving you 4*13 = 52 damage.
Surreal 10-19-06, 06:29 PM	I once made a level 3 CORE build that could do 100 damage EVERY ROUND WITHOUT CRITS and no magic items. Go look in Surreal's "Handy Links for CO work" for "the Level 3 Challenge!" That one's actually not directly in my collection (though I'll add it next update). It is in my "optimal builds for each level" thread though. Here's a direct link: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=698156
PhaedrusXY 10-19-06, 08:10 PM	That one's actually not directly in my collection (though I'll add it next update). It is in my "optimal builds for each level" thread though. Here's a direct link: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=698156Ah, I guess mine dropped to 80 in the end, after I found an error. :P Thanks Surreal!