A balanced Gestalt Dread Necromancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

A balanced Gestalt Dread Necromancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kupan
01-15-06, 08:05 AM I am going into a gestalt game next, and would like to build a fairly balanced character. My problem is that I don't want to outshine the rest of the party, but i would like to make a good character that is playable and helpfull. If i had more experience (like any) in how having undead affects game balance, and party balance, then i wouldn't have as much of a problem.The rest of the players have favorite classes that they play well but don't focus on min/maxing. Well anyways, down to the specifics.
It will be a party of 3. One will more than likely end up as either a ranged ranger/rogue, or a ranged ranger/??. The other doesn't like full spell casters overmuch and will probably end up as either a rogue/bard or possibly a paladin or cleric of some sort. I am afraid i don't know what they will be yet as the campaign is a couple of weeks off most likely.
What I am making is a Changeling Dread Necromancer 20, what i need help with is balancing how far to go into Necromantic feats like corpsecrafter and other focus'.
For the other side of the gestalt i am thinking of doing one of three things.
1. Fighter 4/ Warshaper 5/ ??
2. Warlock 6/ Warshaper 5/ ??
3. using cleric to get into true necromancer, I haven't looked at how many levels I need before I can get into it yet, going to do that later after getting some sleep. (note: i know that that class isn't usual allowed in gestalt because of the dual progression, but in this case it is allowed)

There are two primary reasons I am going towards Warshaper, One is that dread necromancer has so many touch attacks that a tenticle with some reach would be very helpfull, the other is fasthealing rocks, and when i change into a lich at level 20 fast healing still works.

As I implied earlier I don't know what feats to aim at. I am thinking that i would probable end up with some of these feats, not in this order.

Tomb tainted soul: heal with my charnel touch attack.

Necrotic cyst: depends, not a front liner from what i recall of reading the spells to get, but i didn't have the time to go through it as well as i would like, please offer opinions.

Corpse Crafter: seems good for undead. I am assuming that it means +4 strength, and then +2 hp/ level, Not what i am reading it as, +4 str and 2 hp/level. that would be sick.

Destructive retribution: heals me and hurts enemies, well if i have to loose undead why not?

Necromantic presence/might: presence seems nice if we encounter clerics, but might just looks nice. :)

Sacred healing: if no one else gets healing would be nice, and by undead traits it says undead still fast heal. :)

I don't know what the starting level is going to be, probably somewhere in 4-7 by how this dm usual starts things. but I would like to build the char playable from level 2 or so up. I would also like to be able to fill in wherever is needed, even if just with the fast healing to take over the healing role. But I don't want to steal everyones thunder by doing everything for everyone all the time.

I would appriciate any help you decide to give. And to repeat myself for the 50 billionth time, :help: , I need help in a balancing act where we don't know how far to go over either side.

I should stop typing and get some sleep. I will check back after i wake up, reread my post and fix the inevitable mistakes. Good night and thanks for any help in advance.

(goes to knock himself out and get some sleep) :waits: :banghead: :zzz: :ghosted:
thegraveyard
01-15-06, 10:12 AM here is a little suggestion for your Changling:

1. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - feat
2. Dread Necromancer/Archivist -
3. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - feat
4. Dread Necromancer/Archivist -
5. Dread Necromancer/Archivist -
6. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - feat
7. Dread Necromancer/Archivist -
8. Dread Necromancer/Archivist -
9. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - Empower Spell
10. Dread Necromancer/Archivist -
11. Dread Necromancer/Archivist -
12. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - Maximize Spell
13. Dread Necromancer/Archivist -
14. Dread Necromancer/Archivist -
15. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - feat
16. Dread Necromancer/Recaster -
17. Dread Necromancer/Recaster -
18. Dread Necromancer/Recaster - feat
19. Dread Necromancer/Recaster -
20. Dread Necromancer/Recaster -

HD: 20d6
Bab: +10/+5
Fort: +10
Ref: +6
Will: +13

This will give you both arcane and divine spells

Recaster for shaping and changing your spells without changing their levels
Dread Necro for lichdom
Archivist for divine spells and its unique abilities

this is just my suggestion and it seems to work with the theme that your going for
Fanged Fremont
01-15-06, 10:20 AM I am a gestalt level 7 Clr/ 6 Mnk/ 1 reaping mauler. I plan to achieve lichdoom at around 12th or 14th lvl, depending on how much gold I can get my grubby hands on. I am reaping mauler because a lich is almost invinsible in a grapple, I mean who really caries light magic blugeoning weapons, besides monks.

Any way, does anyone have any tips on how to gaurd your phalactry, or whatever is is called.
thegraveyard
01-15-06, 10:36 AM I am a gestalt level 7 Clr/ 6 Mnk/ 1 reaping mauler. I plan to achieve lichdoom at around 12th or 14th lvl, depending on how much gold I can get my grubby hands on. I am reaping mauler because a lich is almost invinsible in a grapple, I mean who really caries light magic blugeoning weapons, besides monks.

Any way, does anyone have any tips on how to gaurd your phalactry, or whatever is is called.

you should think of going into dread necro 20 for your build, no cost for the phalactry gold or xp

as for guarding the phylactry, put it inside of a golem that has burrow and immune to fire (both the golem and the phylactry) and have it burrow under a volcano and sit inside of a lava flow
Kupan
01-15-06, 08:43 PM Hmm, the recaster brings up an interesting point I hadn't thought of, what other ways are there to change touch attacks into ranged touchs/rays?
I am most likely going to be working with a 30 point buy, so I am not so sure about archivist, it needs int and wis but dread necro needs cha.
I am not sure how to take he archivist, I can see how it would be usefull, but I don't particularly like how it's primary (non spellcasting)ability is limited to those specific types, and would make me have only int mod of skill points to work with if I want it to work well against those.

I will have to think about this some more. Thanks :)
PhoenixInferno
01-15-06, 08:59 PM Reach Spell turns touch spells into ranged touched spells.
Zemyla
01-15-06, 09:50 PM Dread Necro 20//Bard 10/Sublime Chord 10

More spells than anyone knows what to do with. :D
jhawz
01-15-06, 10:33 PM I've been wondering when someone was going to post a gestalted Dread Necromancer build on this forum! I'm a huge fan and I just wanted to say thanks for the ideas! I'll have to look into that Recaster PrC. what book is that in?
thegraveyard
01-15-06, 10:56 PM Recaster is in Races of Eberron
Kupan
01-18-06, 01:32 PM hmm, what are all the different ways of becoming a lich? assuming i could use all the books out. The only ones i know of off the top of my head are paying (through the nose) at CL 10?12?, dread necro and walker of the waste.

And what would happen if i had walker of the waste and dread necro gestalted and got both lich templateS? Or bought my way into lichdom then got level 20 in dread necro?
Urnsk
01-18-06, 04:03 PM hmm, what are all the different ways of becoming a lich? assuming i could use all the books out. The only ones i know of off the top of my head are paying (through the nose) at CL 10?12?, dread necro and walker of the waste.

And what would happen if i had walker of the waste and dread necro gestalted and got both lich templateS? Or bought my way into lichdom then got level 20 in dread necro?

Dread Necro's turn into Liches if and ONLY if they have the Humanoid type. Otherwise, the "Be a Lich for Free" part doesn't apply.
Quenditar
01-18-06, 04:38 PM The golem-volcano method of phylactery guarding isn't very safe when foes can make themselves immune to elements. Or are friends with red/gold dragons. Or have their own fire-immune golem strike force. Etc.

Now, if it were on your own private, closed-off, divination-proof, intruder-eating demiplane...that might be a place to start.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kupan 01-15-06, 08:05 AM	I am going into a gestalt game next, and would like to build a fairly balanced character. My problem is that I don't want to outshine the rest of the party, but i would like to make a good character that is playable and helpfull. If i had more experience (like any) in how having undead affects game balance, and party balance, then i wouldn't have as much of a problem.The rest of the players have favorite classes that they play well but don't focus on min/maxing. Well anyways, down to the specifics. It will be a party of 3. One will more than likely end up as either a ranged ranger/rogue, or a ranged ranger/??. The other doesn't like full spell casters overmuch and will probably end up as either a rogue/bard or possibly a paladin or cleric of some sort. I am afraid i don't know what they will be yet as the campaign is a couple of weeks off most likely. What I am making is a Changeling Dread Necromancer 20, what i need help with is balancing how far to go into Necromantic feats like corpsecrafter and other focus'. For the other side of the gestalt i am thinking of doing one of three things. 1. Fighter 4/ Warshaper 5/ ?? 2. Warlock 6/ Warshaper 5/ ?? 3. using cleric to get into true necromancer, I haven't looked at how many levels I need before I can get into it yet, going to do that later after getting some sleep. (note: i know that that class isn't usual allowed in gestalt because of the dual progression, but in this case it is allowed) There are two primary reasons I am going towards Warshaper, One is that dread necromancer has so many touch attacks that a tenticle with some reach would be very helpfull, the other is fasthealing rocks, and when i change into a lich at level 20 fast healing still works. As I implied earlier I don't know what feats to aim at. I am thinking that i would probable end up with some of these feats, not in this order. Tomb tainted soul: heal with my charnel touch attack. Necrotic cyst: depends, not a front liner from what i recall of reading the spells to get, but i didn't have the time to go through it as well as i would like, please offer opinions. Corpse Crafter: seems good for undead. I am assuming that it means +4 strength, and then +2 hp/ level, Not what i am reading it as, +4 str and 2 hp/level. that would be sick. Destructive retribution: heals me and hurts enemies, well if i have to loose undead why not? Necromantic presence/might: presence seems nice if we encounter clerics, but might just looks nice. :) Sacred healing: if no one else gets healing would be nice, and by undead traits it says undead still fast heal. :) I don't know what the starting level is going to be, probably somewhere in 4-7 by how this dm usual starts things. but I would like to build the char playable from level 2 or so up. I would also like to be able to fill in wherever is needed, even if just with the fast healing to take over the healing role. But I don't want to steal everyones thunder by doing everything for everyone all the time. I would appriciate any help you decide to give. And to repeat myself for the 50 billionth time, :help: , I need help in a balancing act where we don't know how far to go over either side. I should stop typing and get some sleep. I will check back after i wake up, reread my post and fix the inevitable mistakes. Good night and thanks for any help in advance. (goes to knock himself out and get some sleep) :waits: :banghead: :zzz: :ghosted:
thegraveyard 01-15-06, 10:12 AM	here is a little suggestion for your Changling: 1. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - feat 2. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - 3. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - feat 4. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - 5. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - 6. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - feat 7. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - 8. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - 9. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - Empower Spell 10. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - 11. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - 12. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - Maximize Spell 13. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - 14. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - 15. Dread Necromancer/Archivist - feat 16. Dread Necromancer/Recaster - 17. Dread Necromancer/Recaster - 18. Dread Necromancer/Recaster - feat 19. Dread Necromancer/Recaster - 20. Dread Necromancer/Recaster - HD: 20d6 Bab: +10/+5 Fort: +10 Ref: +6 Will: +13 This will give you both arcane and divine spells Recaster for shaping and changing your spells without changing their levels Dread Necro for lichdom Archivist for divine spells and its unique abilities this is just my suggestion and it seems to work with the theme that your going for
Fanged Fremont 01-15-06, 10:20 AM	I am a gestalt level 7 Clr/ 6 Mnk/ 1 reaping mauler. I plan to achieve lichdoom at around 12th or 14th lvl, depending on how much gold I can get my grubby hands on. I am reaping mauler because a lich is almost invinsible in a grapple, I mean who really caries light magic blugeoning weapons, besides monks. Any way, does anyone have any tips on how to gaurd your phalactry, or whatever is is called.
thegraveyard 01-15-06, 10:36 AM	I am a gestalt level 7 Clr/ 6 Mnk/ 1 reaping mauler. I plan to achieve lichdoom at around 12th or 14th lvl, depending on how much gold I can get my grubby hands on. I am reaping mauler because a lich is almost invinsible in a grapple, I mean who really caries light magic blugeoning weapons, besides monks. Any way, does anyone have any tips on how to gaurd your phalactry, or whatever is is called. you should think of going into dread necro 20 for your build, no cost for the phalactry gold or xp as for guarding the phylactry, put it inside of a golem that has burrow and immune to fire (both the golem and the phylactry) and have it burrow under a volcano and sit inside of a lava flow
Kupan 01-15-06, 08:43 PM	Hmm, the recaster brings up an interesting point I hadn't thought of, what other ways are there to change touch attacks into ranged touchs/rays? I am most likely going to be working with a 30 point buy, so I am not so sure about archivist, it needs int and wis but dread necro needs cha. I am not sure how to take he archivist, I can see how it would be usefull, but I don't particularly like how it's primary (non spellcasting)ability is limited to those specific types, and would make me have only int mod of skill points to work with if I want it to work well against those. I will have to think about this some more. Thanks :)
PhoenixInferno 01-15-06, 08:59 PM	Reach Spell turns touch spells into ranged touched spells.
Zemyla 01-15-06, 09:50 PM	Dread Necro 20//Bard 10/Sublime Chord 10 More spells than anyone knows what to do with. :D
jhawz 01-15-06, 10:33 PM	I've been wondering when someone was going to post a gestalted Dread Necromancer build on this forum! I'm a huge fan and I just wanted to say thanks for the ideas! I'll have to look into that Recaster PrC. what book is that in?
thegraveyard 01-15-06, 10:56 PM	Recaster is in Races of Eberron
Kupan 01-18-06, 01:32 PM	hmm, what are all the different ways of becoming a lich? assuming i could use all the books out. The only ones i know of off the top of my head are paying (through the nose) at CL 10?12?, dread necro and walker of the waste. And what would happen if i had walker of the waste and dread necro gestalted and got both lich templateS? Or bought my way into lichdom then got level 20 in dread necro?
Urnsk 01-18-06, 04:03 PM	hmm, what are all the different ways of becoming a lich? assuming i could use all the books out. The only ones i know of off the top of my head are paying (through the nose) at CL 10?12?, dread necro and walker of the waste. And what would happen if i had walker of the waste and dread necro gestalted and got both lich templateS? Or bought my way into lichdom then got level 20 in dread necro? Dread Necro's turn into Liches if and ONLY if they have the Humanoid type. Otherwise, the "Be a Lich for Free" part doesn't apply.
Quenditar 01-18-06, 04:38 PM	The golem-volcano method of phylactery guarding isn't very safe when foes can make themselves immune to elements. Or are friends with red/gold dragons. Or have their own fire-immune golem strike force. Etc. Now, if it were on your own private, closed-off, divination-proof, intruder-eating demiplane...that might be a place to start.