A beguiler that deals 50 points of damage per round at lvl 10? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A beguiler that deals 50 points of damage per round at lvl 10? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mkill
11-13-06, 11:15 AM In this thread
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=738290
I thoughtlessly claimed that "the guys at the CO boards could probably create a Beguiler that deals 50 points of damage per round at lvl 10..."

And then I thought... hey, I want to see that build! Can you basicly take any class with whatever focus and make it supreme artillery?

So, here's the deal:
- lvl 10
- standard wealth for lvl (49,000 gp), may take Item creation feats to save money
- 32 point buy
- based on beguiler (the more levels of it, the better)
- all official WotC material allowed
- should be able to deal an average of 50 points of damage every round during four 10-round encounters per day
- it doesn't matter whether the damage is done by magic or combat

So, anybody up to the challenge?
Prominence
11-13-06, 11:20 AM Can't we just color spray and coup de gras a lot with a scythe?
Or higher level SoD with a wand?

I mean, 50 damage at 10 isn't spectacular. With a good 16 strength and a weapon turned +4 thanks to the party cleric you're already doing 4x(1d6+8) for your 3 hits + haste... that's 46 damage. Drink a bull's strength potion for 49. Enlarge Person for +2 more str will put you there.
mkill
11-13-06, 11:41 AM Sorry, it's not *that* easy. I do realize that 50 points of damage per round are not much if you are a barbarian or something like that. But were talking about a beguiler here.

A straight Beguiler 10 has one attack at BAB +5.

Strength 16 might be a little dreamy with that 32 point buy but okay.

+4 weapon... 32000 gp, half if the cleric makes it (16000 gp), but no cleric allowed.

So, a beguiler with 16 strength, haste and a +4 morningstar does (1d8 + 2 + 4) x2 damage. 21 damage per round. We're not even half way there yet.

Bull strength potion won't push him beyond thirty and it's pretty costly to do four times a day. Enlarge person nets a -1 to attack, bad idea.
PonTelon
11-13-06, 01:35 PM Dracconic Heritage+White Dragon Heritage
Level 10 you can use a level 5 slot. That is 5d6+Cha*5.
So You need a Cha mod of +9 to do 50 damage/round. Hmm, that might not be the way to go....

Can't Beguilers choose Shadow Evocation/Conjuration as advanced learning spells?

AHA! Beguiler level 5 spell: Hold Monster
Scythe coup de grace x4 damage. Assuming 16 Str, and 15 Cha(to cast the spell): (2d4+3)x4
Avg:~28
Max: 44

Still not up to par... hrm. Bull's Str will only add 8 more damage, pushing the max up to the goal, but not the average.

DUH!

Silent Image over a 200ft pit.: 20d6 damage. Max: 120

WIN!

=P
Llochlyn
11-13-06, 02:15 PM Hum... Isn't exactly only beguiler, but shameless self promotion is never bad :

http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10465412&postcount=7
Epicweaver
11-13-06, 03:44 PM 50 damage per round isn't a problem as a Beguiler/Shadowcraft Mage...

Consistently? Meh, maybe not so much after the first 4 fights in the way, but still, Shadow illusions are still pretty spiffy.
OldManWinter
11-13-06, 04:29 PM I realize that this won't be 50 dmg /rnd but I think it'll still be pretty good.

Whisper Gnome
1st - Magic in The Blood
3rd - Fey Heritage
3rd - Advanced Learning - Power Word Pain
6th - Fey Presence
7th - Level Advanced Learning - ???
9th - Fey Legacy

That lets you use Summon Nature's Ally 5 3 times a day for a meat shield and you can cast power word pain on multiple people to have the cumulative effect be quite painful, no need to hit and no save. I'm sure that there are better 2nd or 3rd level spells you can cast for more damage, my Beguiler is only at level 3 so I haven't looked.

For 12th Level take Greenbound Summoning to get better cribblies from your summon nature's ally spell. I think that there's another summoning spell that doubles the length of time your meat shield hangs around.
Todd
11-13-06, 05:28 PM Arcane Strike + Haste + Magic Dagger

Strike while under Improved Invisiblity to deny target their dex. Even better if he has Wraithstrike or True Strike.
ninjarabbit
11-13-06, 06:33 PM Elf beguiler with rapid shot and haste

Depending on what arrows you use 3 arrows per round should do 50 damage easy
Blue23
11-13-06, 11:48 PM I thoughtlessly claimed that "the guys at the CO boards could probably create a Beguiler that deals 50 points of damage per round at lvl 10..."

And then I thought... hey, I want to see that build! Can you basicly take any class with whatever focus and make it supreme artillery?

10 levels? That's luxury. Let's do it in 8, without going for "non-Beguiler" tactics like hasted melee attacks. Assuming at least a 14 Chr, an 8th level Beguiler gets three 4th level spells. Charm Monster lasts 8 days. That's potentially 24 creatures charmed at any time - a touch over two points of damage each is easily believable. (At 10th, that goes up to 5 slots for 10 days, or 50 creatures even before bonus spells for high stats.)

Four 10 round encounters is hard because you run out of spells. Now, if you just had to do 4*10*50=2000 damage, that might be more doable if the situations were just right. Whelm, Mass is a 4th level spell, that at 10th can do 10d6 to 10 creatures, for a potential average (assuming max targets, no saves or SR) of 350 per casting. And a 10th level Beguiler has 5 4th and 3 5th slots, plus let's say one more of each from Chr (natural plus a +2 cloak), for 10 castings, almost twice as much damage as asked for, delivered in a shorter period of time.

Cheers,
=Blue(23)
smrtgmp
11-14-06, 05:43 AM It would be a piece of cake by 11th level, as you could have the 3rd level of shadowcraft mage by then.

And beguilers use int for their spells, not cha.
secretkld
02-02-07, 09:01 PM It might be easier for the Beguiler to do 50+ damage at 10th lvl than it first appears. The Beguiler's 3rd lvl spell "Legion of Sentinels" will do 50+ (no save but attack needed)damage to anyone who provokes an AoO. The description of it in PHBII is incomplete but I saw the stats posted on another Beguiler thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10057202&postcount=221) The spell fills every square for a 10' radius with ghostly swordfighters that do 1d8(+1 per 3 lvls) on an AoO. They attack with a BAB equal to your Caster lvl. If you center the spell on a single square he would be threatened by 8 Sentinels (a large creature can have 12 around it). You just have to provide an AoO.

Tripping is prob one of the best ways to do that I guess. The Veritgo spell the Beguiler gets is only DC5 to remain standing. Awakened wolves/wardogs can get the job done easily enough, perhaps spend some gold on a summon monster wand. Glitterdust will give a penalty to oppose the trip if your target fails its save.

Any other good ways to get AoO or better ways to trip?

Its a good spell as is, but I think it may also be stackable and overlappable with itself. In its description it states that a swordfighter can share a space with another creature or object, If so it can be a very deadly trap. Widening/Metamagic-ing this and coming up with better ways to generate AoO might make this a pretty nasty spell. Might be a nice combo with the Goad feat and greater mirror image up too (but a tumble check could ruin your fun).
JaronK
02-02-07, 09:46 PM You might be able to pull it off with early entry into Shadowcraft Mage... take Earth Sense, Heighten Spell, and Earth Spell as your feats at level 1, 3, and 6, and then you can be Beguiler 6/SCM4. That should give you a wide variety of spells, especially if you take a flaw to get Residual Metamagic.

JaronK
tsuyoshikentsu
02-02-07, 10:30 PM Yay, shameless self-promotion! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=783107)
jameswilliamogle
02-02-07, 10:54 PM I think this is a great little combo for a mid level beguiler, thanks for posting it! Despite the fact that everyone is detracting from it, I'm still glad you put it up.

Does the Beguiler Handbook have a section for specific spell combos? It really should, ala the Dread Necromancer Handbook (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=759515) or Consolidated Binder Handbook (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=784085) (heck, since everyone else was self-promoting, I thought I'd do it as well :P).
ChristopherGroves
02-03-07, 09:13 AM Changeling Beguiler - Recaster and Beguiler Unseen Seer and Beguiler Wyrm Wizard (need arcane prep feat for this I think)

Each of these have some way to expand their spell list and could do all sorts of trickery on top of Arcane Strike ... like, for instance, Divine Power - Eye of the Hunter - or some sort of direct damage spell (scorching ray) and Haste.

The Recaster should be able to fling out some number of metamagic enhanced scorching rays (rods, free metamagic, etc.).

The Unseen Seer can, from the greater invisibility, tack on Hunter's Eye and other sneak damage onto an attack (like from a wand of some sort or simply the short bow).

The Wyrm Wizard can Divine Power and other things.

Plus you could be hold-monster-ed.

And, of course, it's going to be hard to hit the Beguiler who is invisible, mirror imaged and hasted.

Beguilers are a very good class. Unseen Seer, Wyrm Wizard and Recaster make them that much better.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mkill 11-13-06, 11:15 AM	In this thread http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=738290 I thoughtlessly claimed that "the guys at the CO boards could probably create a Beguiler that deals 50 points of damage per round at lvl 10..." And then I thought... hey, I want to see that build! Can you basicly take any class with whatever focus and make it supreme artillery? So, here's the deal: - lvl 10 - standard wealth for lvl (49,000 gp), may take Item creation feats to save money - 32 point buy - based on beguiler (the more levels of it, the better) - all official WotC material allowed - should be able to deal an average of 50 points of damage every round during four 10-round encounters per day - it doesn't matter whether the damage is done by magic or combat So, anybody up to the challenge?
Prominence 11-13-06, 11:20 AM	Can't we just color spray and coup de gras a lot with a scythe? Or higher level SoD with a wand? I mean, 50 damage at 10 isn't spectacular. With a good 16 strength and a weapon turned +4 thanks to the party cleric you're already doing 4x(1d6+8) for your 3 hits + haste... that's 46 damage. Drink a bull's strength potion for 49. Enlarge Person for +2 more str will put you there.
mkill 11-13-06, 11:41 AM	Sorry, it's not that easy. I do realize that 50 points of damage per round are not much if you are a barbarian or something like that. But were talking about a beguiler here. A straight Beguiler 10 has one attack at BAB +5. Strength 16 might be a little dreamy with that 32 point buy but okay. +4 weapon... 32000 gp, half if the cleric makes it (16000 gp), but no cleric allowed. So, a beguiler with 16 strength, haste and a +4 morningstar does (1d8 + 2 + 4) x2 damage. 21 damage per round. We're not even half way there yet. Bull strength potion won't push him beyond thirty and it's pretty costly to do four times a day. Enlarge person nets a -1 to attack, bad idea.
PonTelon 11-13-06, 01:35 PM	Dracconic Heritage+White Dragon Heritage Level 10 you can use a level 5 slot. That is 5d6+Cha*5. So You need a Cha mod of +9 to do 50 damage/round. Hmm, that might not be the way to go.... Can't Beguilers choose Shadow Evocation/Conjuration as advanced learning spells? AHA! Beguiler level 5 spell: Hold Monster Scythe coup de grace x4 damage. Assuming 16 Str, and 15 Cha(to cast the spell): (2d4+3)x4 Avg:~28 Max: 44 Still not up to par... hrm. Bull's Str will only add 8 more damage, pushing the max up to the goal, but not the average. DUH! Silent Image over a 200ft pit.: 20d6 damage. Max: 120 WIN! =P
Llochlyn 11-13-06, 02:15 PM	Hum... Isn't exactly only beguiler, but shameless self promotion is never bad : http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10465412&postcount=7
Epicweaver 11-13-06, 03:44 PM	50 damage per round isn't a problem as a Beguiler/Shadowcraft Mage... Consistently? Meh, maybe not so much after the first 4 fights in the way, but still, Shadow illusions are still pretty spiffy.
OldManWinter 11-13-06, 04:29 PM	I realize that this won't be 50 dmg /rnd but I think it'll still be pretty good. Whisper Gnome 1st - Magic in The Blood 3rd - Fey Heritage 3rd - Advanced Learning - Power Word Pain 6th - Fey Presence 7th - Level Advanced Learning - ??? 9th - Fey Legacy That lets you use Summon Nature's Ally 5 3 times a day for a meat shield and you can cast power word pain on multiple people to have the cumulative effect be quite painful, no need to hit and no save. I'm sure that there are better 2nd or 3rd level spells you can cast for more damage, my Beguiler is only at level 3 so I haven't looked. For 12th Level take Greenbound Summoning to get better cribblies from your summon nature's ally spell. I think that there's another summoning spell that doubles the length of time your meat shield hangs around.
Todd 11-13-06, 05:28 PM	Arcane Strike + Haste + Magic Dagger Strike while under Improved Invisiblity to deny target their dex. Even better if he has Wraithstrike or True Strike.
ninjarabbit 11-13-06, 06:33 PM	Elf beguiler with rapid shot and haste Depending on what arrows you use 3 arrows per round should do 50 damage easy
Blue23 11-13-06, 11:48 PM	I thoughtlessly claimed that "the guys at the CO boards could probably create a Beguiler that deals 50 points of damage per round at lvl 10..." And then I thought... hey, I want to see that build! Can you basicly take any class with whatever focus and make it supreme artillery? 10 levels? That's luxury. Let's do it in 8, without going for "non-Beguiler" tactics like hasted melee attacks. Assuming at least a 14 Chr, an 8th level Beguiler gets three 4th level spells. Charm Monster lasts 8 days. That's potentially 24 creatures charmed at any time - a touch over two points of damage each is easily believable. (At 10th, that goes up to 5 slots for 10 days, or 50 creatures even before bonus spells for high stats.) Four 10 round encounters is hard because you run out of spells. Now, if you just had to do 41050=2000 damage, that might be more doable if the situations were just right. Whelm, Mass is a 4th level spell, that at 10th can do 10d6 to 10 creatures, for a potential average (assuming max targets, no saves or SR) of 350 per casting. And a 10th level Beguiler has 5 4th and 3 5th slots, plus let's say one more of each from Chr (natural plus a +2 cloak), for 10 castings, almost twice as much damage as asked for, delivered in a shorter period of time. Cheers, =Blue(23)
smrtgmp 11-14-06, 05:43 AM	It would be a piece of cake by 11th level, as you could have the 3rd level of shadowcraft mage by then. And beguilers use int for their spells, not cha.
secretkld 02-02-07, 09:01 PM	It might be easier for the Beguiler to do 50+ damage at 10th lvl than it first appears. The Beguiler's 3rd lvl spell "Legion of Sentinels" will do 50+ (no save but attack needed)damage to anyone who provokes an AoO. The description of it in PHBII is incomplete but I saw the stats posted on another Beguiler thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10057202&postcount=221) The spell fills every square for a 10' radius with ghostly swordfighters that do 1d8(+1 per 3 lvls) on an AoO. They attack with a BAB equal to your Caster lvl. If you center the spell on a single square he would be threatened by 8 Sentinels (a large creature can have 12 around it). You just have to provide an AoO. Tripping is prob one of the best ways to do that I guess. The Veritgo spell the Beguiler gets is only DC5 to remain standing. Awakened wolves/wardogs can get the job done easily enough, perhaps spend some gold on a summon monster wand. Glitterdust will give a penalty to oppose the trip if your target fails its save. Any other good ways to get AoO or better ways to trip? Its a good spell as is, but I think it may also be stackable and overlappable with itself. In its description it states that a swordfighter can share a space with another creature or object, If so it can be a very deadly trap. Widening/Metamagic-ing this and coming up with better ways to generate AoO might make this a pretty nasty spell. Might be a nice combo with the Goad feat and greater mirror image up too (but a tumble check could ruin your fun).
JaronK 02-02-07, 09:46 PM	You might be able to pull it off with early entry into Shadowcraft Mage... take Earth Sense, Heighten Spell, and Earth Spell as your feats at level 1, 3, and 6, and then you can be Beguiler 6/SCM4. That should give you a wide variety of spells, especially if you take a flaw to get Residual Metamagic. JaronK
tsuyoshikentsu 02-02-07, 10:30 PM	Yay, shameless self-promotion! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=783107)
jameswilliamogle 02-02-07, 10:54 PM	I think this is a great little combo for a mid level beguiler, thanks for posting it! Despite the fact that everyone is detracting from it, I'm still glad you put it up. Does the Beguiler Handbook have a section for specific spell combos? It really should, ala the Dread Necromancer Handbook (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=759515) or Consolidated Binder Handbook (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=784085) (heck, since everyone else was self-promoting, I thought I'd do it as well :P).
ChristopherGroves 02-03-07, 09:13 AM	Changeling Beguiler - Recaster and Beguiler Unseen Seer and Beguiler Wyrm Wizard (need arcane prep feat for this I think) Each of these have some way to expand their spell list and could do all sorts of trickery on top of Arcane Strike ... like, for instance, Divine Power - Eye of the Hunter - or some sort of direct damage spell (scorching ray) and Haste. The Recaster should be able to fling out some number of metamagic enhanced scorching rays (rods, free metamagic, etc.). The Unseen Seer can, from the greater invisibility, tack on Hunter's Eye and other sneak damage onto an attack (like from a wand of some sort or simply the short bow). The Wyrm Wizard can Divine Power and other things. Plus you could be hold-monster-ed. And, of course, it's going to be hard to hit the Beguiler who is invisible, mirror imaged and hasted. Beguilers are a very good class. Unseen Seer, Wyrm Wizard and Recaster make them that much better.