Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JosephKell 12-05-05, 02:50 AM	The weapon that a Rogue should use is Light Maces. Here is why: Lightning Mace (CW). The feat is easy to pick up: TWF, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus. (Rogue 1/Fighter 2 can get it). If you roll a threat (i.e. a nat 20), you get an extra attack at the same attack roll. Even if you are fighting Undead, you can still get your extra attacks because you have to a roll, not actually deal critical damage. Later on, Improved Critical (Light Mace) would raise their chance for extra attacks to 19-20. The only thing that could make this better is if there was an equal feat that worked with Thinblades (for the 18-20 range).
Zaxter 12-05-05, 03:03 AM	So what makes this ideal for rogues in particular? Sounds more like it's good for...Almost anybody with TWF and a pair of light maces.
Impeesa 12-05-05, 03:17 AM	Anything that gives extra attacks synergizes nicely with bonus damage like sneak attack. That's one of the reasons you see a lot of TWF rogues. --Impeesa--
X-Codes 12-05-05, 06:34 AM	The weapon that a Rogue should use is Light Maces. Here is why: Lightning Mace (CW). The feat is easy to pick up: TWF, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus. (Rogue 1/Fighter 2 can get it). If you roll a threat (i.e. a nat 20), you get an extra attack at the same attack roll. Even if you are fighting Undead, you can still get your extra attacks because you have to a roll, not actually deal critical damage. Later on, Improved Critical (Light Mace) would raise their chance for extra attacks to 19-20. The only thing that could make this better is if there was an equal feat that worked with Thinblades (for the 18-20 range). Theres a very good reason there isn't a feat like this for thinblades: It's actually a good weapon. Without this feat, Light Mace is one of the least used weapons in the game right next to the Punching Dagger. Now that this feat has come into effect, there are some specialized builds that use it. Besides, TWF, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus, and Improved Critical takes up a lot of feats for a rogue. Barring using the Rogue Specials to gain feats, you will likely have 7 feats (or 8 if you went human). 4 levels of fighter grants the extra attack and 3 more feats, however your skills take the hit (24 points lost plus a number of ranks having to be taken cross-class, more than one skill is lost) and you have to deal with mutliclass restrictions. For a character class not really meant to specialize in combat (no, the rogue is not supposed to be a combat specialist) the heavy feat investment really only grants the benefits of using dual maces in the late-game. Until then, Shortswords are much better options (and rapier + shortsword even better than that).
Llochlyn 12-05-05, 06:50 AM	The class that takes it high is this "warrior" generic class from UA, wich shouldn't be anyway... all the feats, a heavy sneak attack full BAB
rilem 12-05-05, 09:57 AM	Until then, Shortswords are much better options (and rapier + shortsword even better than that). I'll disagree here. I'd say light mace is is superior to a short sword for a rogue, even without the Lightning Mace feat. - Bludgeoning damage is generally superior to piercing damage from a damage-reduction standpoint. - Critical range is less important for a Weapon Finesse Rogue because strength bonus is neglible (or nonexistent) and sneak-attack damage isn't added. (This changes if you have Swashbuckler levels). - Mace is cheaper. - Mace lets you try and sunder the lock you just failed to pick. Can't do that with a short sword.
Zemyla 12-05-05, 12:14 PM	The only reason why short swords continue to be used by rogues is because of the old 2nd edition term "backstab". And the fact that it's 2 pounds lighter.
Llochlyn 12-05-05, 02:11 PM	it's cleaner too... when you assassinate, you don't want to lay footprints in the now splashed-all-over-bloody-pulp body of the victim... clear cuts are cleaner
OGS-Remix 12-05-05, 02:24 PM	Spikes + Brambles on 2x wooden light maces sounds pretty nice too. UMD is good...
Khazra Reborn 12-05-05, 04:18 PM	Remix just one that argument...good call. That's not for rogues in particular, but it does rock for everyone! Gives me a great idea for a TWF build: human rogue11/fighter1/disciple of dispater8 Important feas: able-learner (to max UMD), TWF tree, improved crit (lightmace) & lighning mace style. Has the best possible crit you can get with maces to my knowledge at 17-20, 6D6 SA, BaB17, good saves (thankyou DoD), bonus damage/to hit with weapons. Unfortuanetly, im not entirely sure the DoD's abilities would work with bronzewood...time to invent iron-wood methinks....
Blas de Lezo 12-05-05, 04:26 PM	That would be a good build for a straight swashbuckler. It makes swash20 something to consider. Highest stats: Dex, Int. Human swashbuckler20 1. Weapon Finesse*, TWF [Human], Weapon Focus (LM) 3. Combat Reflexes 6. Lightning Mace 9. Improved TWF 12. Greater TWF 15. Improved Critical 18. Power Critical What do you think?
catharz 12-05-05, 04:33 PM	You can use wooden shortswords as well. Overall I don't think it is worth the feat cost for a rogue to get an extra one tenth of an attack with every swing. Short swords aren't any better. Clubs, daggers, spiked gauntlets, shortspears, longspears, morningstars...those are good melee weapons.
Zaxter 12-05-05, 04:34 PM	That would be a good build for a straight swashbuckler. It makes swash20 something to consider. Highest stats: Dex, Int. Human swashbuckler20 1. Weapon Finesse*, TWF [Human], Weapon Focus (LM) 3. Combat Reflexes 6. Lightning Mace 9. Improved TWF 12. Greater TWF 15. Improved Critical 18. Power Critical What do you think? If you put Wounding, Marrowcrushing (BoVD), and Enfeebling (BoED) on both of those maces, you have quite the deadly oponnent.
Llochlyn 12-05-05, 04:34 PM	More precisely, you'll have to work it : Fighter 1/Rogue 7/DoD 8/Rog 8-11 To get those incredible crits faster :) Oh, something is so wrong in the wording... They talk about "keen" enhancement... not about the 'impact' from magic of faerun... Is Iron Wood considered Iron by Dispater ? I think not... So you still get a 17-20 crit without ironwood
OGS-Remix 12-05-05, 05:08 PM	You can use wooden shortswords as well. Unfortunately you need a wooden bludgeoning weapon to use spikes/brambles. Maybe instead of using a rogue, you can use a 2-mace fighting charging type character so you can get quite a few extra attacks with full power attack or what not.
catharz 12-05-05, 05:19 PM	Unfortunately you need a wooden bludgeoning weapon to use spikes/brambles. Maybe instead of using a rogue, you can use a 2-mace fighting charging type character so you can get quite a few extra attacks with full power attack or what not. The relevant text is "wooden striking surface."
OGS-Remix 12-05-05, 05:28 PM	I know the spells were changed in the Spell Compendium, but checking Crystal Keep the spells say the target needs to be a wooden bludgeoning weapon. If the target was changed to "A single weapon touched" or something similar, then I like your interpretation better then my more restrictive one.
JosephKell 12-05-05, 09:51 PM	Consider a Rogue 7/Fighter 2 (that is R1/F2 then back to rogue), Now anytime you roll a threat (so Power Critical doesn't help) you get an extra attack. With a Full-Round Attack, you have 3 swings (Improved Critical is more important than Improved TWF). If any is a 19 or 20 you get an extra swing. This also applies to Attacks of Opportunity. I am not sure how Spikes and Brambles would work, since Maces aren't made of wood. Perhaps, you could use Darkwood, but it would then require an Ironwood spell to be as hard as a normal light mace.
AngelLemmingThief 01-23-06, 03:15 PM	How would this feat work with multiple arms and the Multiweapon Fighting feat?
helicopter 01-23-06, 03:22 PM	in Yekoj's Rogue handbook, he recommends that rogues use adamantine light maces as preffered weapons. i can't recall the specifics. but there you have it.