Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mean_liar 02-15-04, 06:20 AM	Fighting Gish Wizard 5/Fighter 2/Spellsword 5/Eldritch Knight 4/Havoc Mage 4 final +16 BAB, 13th level spellcasting Dwarf Dragonlance, Age of Despair (War of the Lance) (i.e., no spontaneous casting) DM has allowed Wizards to not necessarily take levels in the Wizard of High Sorcery PrC but still be counted as one for roleplaying purposes, assuming you passed the test. 1 Wizard Wiz1 Extend Spell, Scribe Scroll*, +1 Caster Level 2 Wizard Wiz2 +1 Caster Level 3 Wizard Wiz3 Sudden Maximize, +1 Caster Level 4 Wizard Wiz5 +1 Caster Level 5 Fighter Wiz5/Fgt1 Power Attack* 6 Fighter Wiz5/Fgt2 Cleave*, Ancestral Relic 7 Spellsword Wiz5/Fgt2/SS1 Ignore Spell Failure 10%, +1 Caster Level 8 Spellsword Wiz5/Fgt2/SS2 Energy Substitution* 9 Spellsword Wiz5/Fgt2/SS3 Arcane Strike, Ignore Spell Failure 15%, +1 Caster Level 10 Spellsword Wiz5/Fgt2/SS4 Channel Spell 3/day 11 Spellsword Wiz5/Fgt2/SS5 Ignore Spell Failure 20%, +1 Caster Level 12 EldritchKnight Wiz5/Fgt2/SS5/EK1 Sudden Empower, Improved Toughness* 13 EldritchKnight Wiz5/Fgt2/SS5/EK2 +1 Caster Level 14 Wizard Wiz5/Fgt2/SS5/EK2 Persistant Spell*, +1 Caster Level 15 EldritchKnight Wiz5/Fgt2/SS5/EK3 Quicken Spell-like Ability (Channel), +1 Caster Level 16 EldritchKnight Wiz5/Fgt2/SS5/EK4 +1 Caster Level 17 HavocMage Wiz5/Fgt2/SS5/EK4/HM1 Battlecast 2nd 18 HavocMage Wiz5/Fgt2/SS5/EK4/HM2 Energy Admixture, +1 Caster Level 19 HavocMage Wiz5/Fgt2/SS5/EK4/HM3 Battlecast 4th 20 HavocMage Wiz5/Fgt2/SS5/EK4/HM4 +1 Caster Level FEAT NOTES -- Complete Warrior: Arcane Strike, Improved Toughness Tomb and Blood: Energy Substitution, Persistant Spell, Energy Admixture Miniatures Handbook: Sudden Maximize, Sudden Empower Book of Exalted Deeds: Ancestral Relic Monster Manual: Quicken Spell-like Ability CLASS NOTES -- Complete Warrior: Spellsword DMG: Eldritch Knight Miniatures Handbook: Havoc Mage The basic idea is that this dwarf uses a greataxe and kills things. The game is extremely low magic, and so the idea of taking Improved Buckler Defense and using a high-powered magic shield is right out. A +1 Twilight Mithral (or Blended Quartz) Full Plate is about all thats on the menu armor-wise, with the ancestral relic covering the weapon angle (I hope). At later levels I realize that more uber gishes are higher-level casters, but the player (not me) isn't that familiar with Wizards. Therefore I concentrated for ways to boost melee abilities. That is, with Quicken Spell-like Ability (Channel) this should allow the character to Quicken True Strike + Power Attack without adjusting the level, cast a Suddenly Empowered and Maximized Quickened (Sonic) Scorching Ray as a Channeled 2nd level spell once a day or a Suddenly Empowered and Maximized Energy Admixtured (Sonic + Acid) fireball at a group of foes. Not too many tricks but the occasional Arcane Strike should allow some melee capabilities as well as a few utility spells left over. There are a few campaign-specific elements here. The first is that the DM uses the Half-Dragon template on hobgoblins as Draconians, rather than the DLCS 'official' draconians, so we're always running into enemies that have varying elemental resistances (hence Energy Substitution). The second major consideration is that our enemies are lots of moderately annoying goons (these Draconians have venomous bites that paralyze, harharhar isn't that great) and then usually a dragon with a CR AT LEAST 5 points over our average level (last game had a CR 23 Red Dragon to face off against our party of three 9th level characters), meaning that unless the build puts out insane damage for its level, being able to fight large quantities of goons and whip out one or two extremely damaging spells is much better than having a pretty-darn-good gish that still won't be able to fight the ultimate enemies (dragons of utterly ridiculous CR too high to seriously consider fighting). The final consideration is the low magic of the campaign (9th level character, +1 sword). Besides, this is what the other player wanted to play (more fighter than mage) and thats good enough for me. Any suggestions? ... For the record, my Minotaur VoP Monk is doing just fine. :D
mean_liar 02-15-04, 06:10 PM	I know this is one of those terribly uninteresting and complicated builds (goodness knows this is exactly the sort of post I usually ignore) but if I could get an okay from the crowd that'd be enough. I usually don't make characters like this and I want to be sure that I'm not missing something glaringly obvious.
Sisyfos 02-15-04, 06:23 PM	It seems like a pretty viable build. I have a note about havoc mage though. You should not take those levels there at the end of the build. Take them while the character matures. Take that battlecast 2 after the character fills the requirements (=after that 2nd fighter level or after getting the basic abilities from spellsword [depending on which ever you'd like to learn first]). Then take battlecast 4 as soon as this character gets those 4th level spells (=somewhere after those spellsword levels). The battlecasts are great for self-buffing or doing damage while meleeing (its basically like an quickened spell without level adjustment while fighting... great for buffing yourself in combat if you have no prep. time). If DM allows you to research spells then that energy substitution is not that useful. It does make things simpler though for not so experienced players so I'd perhaps keep it. All in all it seems to be a solid build. Go for it (and keep the CON up :-)
LordShade 02-15-04, 06:31 PM	Another suggestion - take the fighter levels first. Also, unless you really need the extra feat, take one more level of EK instead of Wiz5. You will get to iteratives faster. Good call by the DM on Wizards of High Sorcery, btw.
Funny Slaughter 02-15-04, 06:50 PM	i am quite surprised about your dragon-encounters, no way a party could survive a dragon with such rediciously high CR if it was played correctly... sisyfos advice regarding the havoc mage is a good one, the ability to attack and cast a spell is great for a gish. as a general advice i would say that you should get the casterlevel higher. with a low-magic world its much easier to rely on your own spells instead of special armors you find. channel spell is quite worthless if you have levels of havoc mage, i would say that you should stay with the first level of spellsword. with 10% ASF-ignore you can wear a twillight blended quartz full-plate, or, much easier to find, a mithral chainshirt (for beginners). (you didnt mention starting level or gold) wizard5/fighter1/EK1/SS1/HM5/EK7 seems like a good build for me, netting 16th casting which means you can cast 8th level spells while attacking. there is quite some space for quickened or persistant spells also. i would leave the sudden feats out of the build, the damage comes from the weapon, not the spells. counting quicken SL-ability you save three feats this way, since you lost two with my reconfiguration of your build there is one free "gained". check my "frontliner caster"-thread for some good spells, i am quite sure your friend will appriciate the suggestions when he starts reading the spell descriptions. take care to stay up-to-date with your polymorph-forms, good to have some higher casterlevel here also. gs Funny
Sisyfos 02-15-04, 07:06 PM	That 6th level of wizard always beats one level of EK (same BAB increase and better saves increase): wizard5/fighter1/EK1/SS1/HM5/EK7 Lets tweak it a bit more. Fig1/wiz4/HM2/SS1/EK2/HM3-4/EK3-9/HM1 0 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 / 15 / 16 <-casterlevel 1 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 7 / 9 / 16 / 16 <- BAB 1 / 5 / 7 / 8 / 10 / 12 / 19 / 20 <- level How does this look like? BAB 16, casterlevel 16. No channeling from spellsword. Some EK levels can be traded for that ability if it is desired (its a cool touch in my eyes especially with the quicken su feat, but I'd personally probably not trade it for battlecast 8 [if you ever get that far]). Anyhow. This build would be ready for those extra spellsword levels from level 13 up. Sisyfos
Snow Savant 02-15-04, 07:28 PM	Nice build, Mean. And one of the few builds I've seen in here that try to maximize the use of the new Sudden metamagick feats. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of them, but that's due to my DM's and campaign style of play. A good way to gauge their value is "encounters per day". If your DM is one of those folks who like to give you 2-3 combat encounters per day, the Sudden feats should have some merit. If he tags you for more than 3 encounters per day, you often wish you had something else in those feat slots to help you with the mass quantity of villains you are facing. Also, I highly recommend you find room for the Improved Initiative feat. Pretty much a standard feat for the assertive posturing and combat style of the Gish. Since you will be facing mass throngs of the unwashed masses, you may want to think about being a SpellBow, instead of a SpellSword (as per the beginning description paragraph of the SS). Couple that with the use of conjuration hazard, web, wall, & fog/cloud spells ... and you should be able to control the battlefield in nothing flat. A nice little combo using Battlecast and real low level spells, is to cast a Web spell at a group of Draconians, then fire a Spellbow channeling a 2nd level Battering Ram spell to make that last dumb-ass Draconian back right up into your Web. Of course, going SpellBow means re-allocating your feats to archery feats. You really won't need metamagick feats (except for Quicken Spell) since all your conjuration spells will be of the no save, no SR variety. I like SpellBow a lot because of your ability to use the Fly or Alter Self spell to ensure those mass hordes never get their grimy paws on you. Anyway, sorry for the segue. :D And everyone else's suggestions look spot-on. Enjoy! Snow :cloud9:
mean_liar 02-15-04, 08:54 PM	Sorry about not mentioning starting level or gold, its a 9th level character with standard gear. Thats why the Fighter levels show up later since for this purpose it doesn't really matter. Taking your suggestions into account, I've come up with a newer version. I guess Quicken Spell-like ability will have to wait for Epic, which is too bad since those MM feats can be oh-so-crunchy. Havoc Mage can't be taken at level 6 as it requires a BAB +4. Still not sure about feat selection. Energy Substitution seems good for the campaign at hand (rather than develop several custom sonic spells), and Quickdrawing scrolls seems a smart thing to be able to do. Still spell and Power Attack/Cleave I'm not too sure on and would like to be convinced that there's a great choice out there waiting to be taken. I'm also thinking Craft Wondrous Item to replace Sudden Maximize? So, this build relies on Mithral Chain Shirts for AC until it can get some bracers? Its got +16 BAB and 15th level casting. Having now done one of these, I hate them. If you want to be a mage and cause melee damage, just be a cleric. Wizards are best for flying over the battlefield as an invisible Lammasu raining down terror. Arg. So... frustrating... :) CURRENT BUILD FOR CONSIDERATION Dwarf Fighter 1/Wizard 4/Havoc Mage 5/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 9 1 Wizard Wiz1 Extend Spell, Scribe Scroll*, +1 CL 2 Wizard Wiz2 +1 CL 3 Wizard Wiz3 Ancestral Relic, +1 CL 4 Wizard Wiz4 +1 CL 5 Fighter Fgt1/Wiz4 Quick Draw* 6 Fighter Fgt2/Wiz4 Sudden Maximize, Improved Toughness* 7 HavocMage Fgt2/Wiz4/HM1 Battlecast 2nd 8 Spellsword Fgt2/Wiz4/HM1/SS1 Ignore ASL 10%, +1 CL 9 EldtrichKnight Fgt2/Wiz4/HM1/SS1/EK1 Arcane Strike, Power Attack*, Battlecast 4th 10 EldtrichKnight Fgt2/Wiz4/HM1/SS1/EK2 +1 CL 11 EldtrichKnight Fgt2/Wiz4/HM1/SS1/EK3 +1 CL 12 HavocMage Fgt2/Wiz4/HM2/SS1/EK3 Extend Spell, +1 CL 13 HavocMage Fgt2/Wiz4/HM3/SS1/EK3 Battlecast 4th 14 HavocMage Fgt2/Wiz4/HM4/SS1/EK4 +1 CL 15 EldtrichKnight Fgt2/Wiz4/HM4/SS1/EK4 Persistent Spell, +1 CL 16 EldtrichKnight Fgt2/Wiz4/HM4/SS1/EK5 +1 CL 17 EldtrichKnight Fgt2/Wiz4/HM4/SS1/EK6 +1 CL 18 EldtrichKnight Fgt2/Wiz4/HM4/SS1/EK7 Still Spell, +1 CL 19 EldtrichKnight Fgt2/Wiz4/HM4/SS1/EK8 +1 CL 20 HavocMage Fgt2/Wiz4/HM5/SS1/EK8 Battlecast 8th, +1 CL
mean_liar 02-15-04, 09:05 PM	Oh yeah, regarding the dragons: we don't survive. In general we run like hell and a few of us manage to get away. Last session I managed to trick a dragon into following us into the narrow causeway of Pax Tharkas and then dropping the granite on top of it (that was the CR 23) as our bait Gaseous Formed itself, but even that was a failure (total NPC deaths: 23, 3 of merit) with the dragon getting 20d6 of damage and then crawling out from underneath the rubble. That's been our most successful dragon encounter to date. Including the previous 3 dragon encounters has us at 1 for 4, with 1 dragon dead on their side from a DM deus ex machina and 6 PC/26 NPC deaths on our side from Maximized/Clinging Breath Weapons. Man, I was really hoping that the granite would pin and kill the dragon but the DM was pretty clear that there was no way he was going to let his favorite Ancient Red keystone of the Red Dragon Army get outsmarted and killed by a bunch of 9th level PCs, no matter how clever. And boy, were we hoppin' mad about it. Oh well. We'll get a bigger mountain to drop on him next time.
LordShade 02-15-04, 09:51 PM	lol, sounds like a fun campaign mean. I love oldschool, gritty, low-magic, fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants Dragonlance. btw, I have to ask - did the PCs meet at the Inn of the Last Home in Solace?
mean_liar 02-15-04, 10:14 PM	Sort of. We met up in Solace alright but the game's gone in stages - PCs die and are replaced. My 1st PC was a Wizard that blew his Test of High Sorcery (given the DM, I seriously doubt if there was much I could have done anyway) and would've needed a month or two to retest, so I just ditched the character and played a Minotaur VoP monk in order to keep the pace of the story up. The other PCs have been slaughtered by dragons and replaced by POWs and refugees as the game's progressed. I tell you, 3e dragons are not the 1e dragons the stories involved. These monsters are army-destroying in their own right, not to mention an army composed of half-dragon frontline troops that explode. Basically, theres no way a conventional force (ie, what the books expect you to do) could ever stand up to these dragon armies. It doesn't help that my character's Diplomacy checks in the high 30s to convince the races to band together and get ready for war have essentially been ignored by the DM because he doesn't want it to happen that way. So the game's a lot darker than the original DL stuff: we're guerilla raiding key command posts for information, and my character has pieced together the origin of the draconians somewhat. So the next stop is Sanction. I'm trying to conduct an unconventional war using our PCs as the key players, but the others in the party are this gish here, a Rogue, and a Ranger3/Druid6. Its a little bit of a challenge as you can imagine, which is why I'm really interested in getting this gish Teleport (and the rest really doesn't matter to me, hell I do all the hard fighting anyway while the rest desperately try to stay alive). Unlike the Heroes of the Lance, I'm starting at the top and working down. Stop the production of the draconian troops is #1, then take out the most intelligent highlords is #2. We don't know anything about the Dragonlances yet and quite frankly they wouldn't matter anyway - the Greater Lances are the only ones that really matter and they require a 20th level caster (haha!) and each require 50000stl in raw materials (more haha!) - did I mention the 9th level character with his +1 sword? I figure our only chance is to create good draconians of our own using evil dragon eggs, but I'm not springing that lunacy on our DM just yet. I'll let him figure out what I'm doing once its too late for him to stop it. :) And I also plan on systematically eliminating highlords and leaving their armies to disintegrate, shortcircuiting the war and skipping right to the postwar period. And my ace in the hole is going to Mithas and winning the right to be Emporer of the Minotaurs in the Arena and dragging the Minotaur race into the war on the side of Good as conquerers of Sanction. I got a few tricks but based on my first wave of trickery (crushing the dragon), I can see that the DM doesn't handle spontenaiety very well. I calculated the load generated on a Gargantuan (20x20) creature from 75 feet of granite and its about 3000 tons - that thing was as good as crushed. Basically, I'm trying to figure out what exactly the DM wants us to do, since I'm getting the initial impressions that if we don't do what he expects we're not going to succeed. And *those* games I really hate. But we'll see.
Caelic 02-15-04, 11:20 PM	You know, I'm really not all that big on the sheer number of builds that have been popping up with one level of Dragonslayer in them just for the benefits...but this is a build where Dragonslayer would actually make logical sense and be of benefit. Have you played with the possibility of incorporating a few levels?
LordShade 02-15-04, 11:37 PM	I admire your boldness, mean, and I ask the remaining questions out of curiosity. 1. Stopping the creation of more draconians? I was under the impression that all the draconians were already made at the beginning of the war. Even if you get into the hatcheries in sanction, how do you get the dragon eggs out? 2. Taking out the Dragon Highlords seems an even harder task. I don't remember who leads the green, black, and white armies, but those aren't the ones that matter. Kitiara is protected by Lord Soth (good luck!) and Lord Ariakus is a level 23 cleric, with 10 levels of wizard or 10 levels of fighter (his story and stats varied, even in 2nd edition... in the Chronicles Raistlin and Tanis realize he's a black robe mage, but everywhere else he's a dual-classed fighter. Either way, you're dealing with a powerful epic character). 3. How old are the dragons you're fighting? Confronting a group of level 9s that have a +1 sword with advanced reds seems, well, unfair. If I was an aspiring hero, I personally would not set foot anywhere near Sanction or Neraka. You're better off going to Kendermore and joining up with the local resistance ;) I like your idea of becoming the minotaur emperor though. That should own once some seagoing, warlike bronze dragons join up with you.
mean_liar 02-16-04, 01:32 AM	Originally posted by LordShade 1. Stopping the creation of more draconians? I was under the impression that all the draconians were already made at the beginning of the war.Maybe. The DM is jiggling things about with the story a bit and I'm taking a chance. My character wouldn't know one way or another, but I do know that we're seeing new ones that have told us during interrogation that they're new to the front and can't really remember too much about how long they've been around. Even if you get into the hatcheries in sanction, how do you get the dragon eggs out?I'm banking on some helpful mages between here and there. I'm lobbying the White and Red wizards hard looking for a diviner and teleporter. Basically if the NPCs continue the way they've been going I won't be able to complete my mission. That's okay but not ideal, since it means that I'm back following a paint-by-numbers story progression and I can just laze back and crunch numbers and not really have to think much: a blessing and a curse. If it gets too boring I'll ask to run an evil campaign, and if its at that point I'm sure no one (including the DM) would mind. No hard feelings except for my Minotaur not being able to finish out his ridiculousness. 2. Taking out the Dragon Highlords seems an even harder task. I don't remember who leads the green, black, and white armies, but those aren't the ones that matter. Kitiara is protected by Lord Soth (good luck!) and Lord Ariakus is a level 23 cleric, with 10 levels of wizard or 10 levels of fighter (his story and stats varied, even in 2nd edition... in the Chronicles Raistlin and Tanis realize he's a black robe mage, but everywhere else he's a dual-classed fighter. Either way, you're dealing with a powerful epic character).Epic just means lots of HPs, and multiclassed epic is just lousy. I don't care who or what they are, when I get an ally's half-dozen summoned creatures to Aid Another while I engage the spellcaster in a grapple and Stun Attack/Vow of Nonviolence/Fist of Heavens/Meditation of War/Ability Focus/Rapid Stunning/Expert Tactician the poop out of him it won't matter one way or another. Compared to the dragons we've been fighting, humanoid creatures are a joke. The only tricky part is getting close to them. You really should have seen how we took out a Death Knight using this tactic. The DM was busy describing this incredibly impressive greatsword with black flame dancing off of it etc etc and how the fallen knight cleaved an anvil for effect before engaging us. My wasn't he surprised when I finally got the grapple to go off and the rest of the party piled on. The image was pretty funny: us as a party ramming his undead head into the wall of his tomb while he's in a sweaty headlock. I mean, he cast a few low DC area-effect spells that more or less killed half the party (CR was 5 or 6 over us I think) but the survivors cleaned his clock but good. And its been like that ever since. I do thrive and revel in adversity and this game's had plenty of it. 3. How old are the dragons you're fighting? Confronting a group of level 9s that have a +1 sword with advanced reds seems, well, unfair.The last one we confronted in Pax Tharkas was an Ancient Red (CR 23). The only way I figured we could take it and free the prisoners was dropping the "lock" on it, so we snuck around and stealthed our way in and even eventually got it to attack our bait, but obviously all that planning and hard work didn't work because the DM didn't want it to. Sigh. At least we made off with some of Verminaard's personal gear and some important military documents. For the moment we've totally given up on trying to beat these things with conventional weapons. I'm figuring that the next thing we try is to poison their food supply, assuming its not humanoids. :D As you can tell, I'm not too fond of the DMs style. He wants to be in control of the story and have us follow whatever he wants pretty closely, whereas I've got my head dancing with the way that I figure the War of the Lance should have been fought. He wants to tell a story with us in it, and I'm trying to make a new story entirely. I think I might lose that particular battle, but it doesn't mean I won't try. ;) I like your idea of becoming the minotaur emperor though. That should own once some seagoing, warlike bronze dragons join up with you. Yeah, that's why its the 'ace' in the hole. Its simple and straight-forward and there's little room for the DM to give me the shaft. But its a slogging victory that will heavily involve my Profession (military strategist) (+15 right now) rather than a triumph of shrewdness over brute force. So the backup plan is solid, but its just not heroic enough for my tastes. You get the idea: :king: I'd really like to whomp all over evil in a less-underhanded way, but given the quality of our opposition I don't see a point in it. The Ansalon landmasses are tiny and these CR20+ dragons can travel from one end to another in a few days in order to decimate entire armies on their own, to say nothing of a small band of poorly-equipped heroes with no friends to speak of. The tone of the game is calling out for some guerilla war and nasty tactics, because its all we've got left. They've already managed to capture some of our band and are using them as bait and to be honest I don't really see a clean way of resolving it. Ideally, this would be a high magic game and I could be playing a LE monk and *really* get nasty, but there was no way to consider that in the setting we're in; it was VoP or nothing. At this point I just wish that we had some more minmaxers in the party.
PhaedrusXY 02-16-04, 03:26 AM	I definitely agree with Funny when he said: as a general advice i would say that you should get the casterlevel higher. with a low-magic world its much easier to rely on your own spells instead of special armors you find. The easiest way to make sure you're powerful in a low magic game is to be a high level spellcaster (or at least with one). Who cares if your armor and sword is only +1, when you can put Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Vestment on them. I'd make this guy a Gish with a good caster level and the Chain Spell feat, then he can hook everyone up with a Greater Magic Weapon every day for the cost of 1 7th level spellslot. Getting Quicken Spell-like ability: Channel was an interesting idea, though. This campaign sounds pretty crazy. It would be fun to play in something this challenging and gritty, but I don't think I'd like what sounds like the DMs heavy handedness. If you come up with a way to drop a mountain on his pet NPC, it should die, unless it has some contingency magic protecting it. Otherwise, what is the freakin point of even playing, if you can't really affect how the story is going to turn out? If I want to hear someone else's story, I read a book or watch a movie. If I want to be a part of one, I play D&D.
CompleteSatori 02-16-04, 04:14 AM	<nod>
mean_liar 02-16-04, 07:52 AM	Originally posted by PhaedrusXY I definitely agree with Funny ... The easiest way to make sure you're powerful in a low magic game is to be a high level spellcaster (or at least with one).Agreed. But none of the other players see it that way and my Minotaur Monk is the party's tank - if I ditch my character (which I don't want to do anyway) the party is out its only melee-capable character. Its actually been a running joke for the group, since every time a PC dies and needs replacing I beg and cajole for a full spellcaster and have managed to get an Elven Rogue/Cleric ("She can cast AND sneak!" ... :uh-huh: ), a Ranger/Druid ("He's got Rapid Shot AND Endurance!" ... :nonono: ) and now this Fighter/Wizard ("I can use a weapon AND cast spells!" ... :bored: ). The group knows what we need but no one is willing to actually *be* a wizard. Basically, I need this Gish dude to be a full-on cleric with the Travel domain. But he wants to play a gish and I'm a little afraid to point out the obvious to him: that gish stink and are thematically interesting but craptacular in execution compared to a full spellcasting cleric. I'd make a bigger deal about it but I haven't met with success in the whole "your character design really could use some tweaking to get the most out of it" department (which, in addition to the above builds, has also led to Halfling Dragon Disciples, Hide-in-Plain-Sight Dervishes: "They're so broken!" :weep:, and Sorcerors with Toughness as a 1st level feat in FR are prime examples), which in previous games manifestly corrects itself as my character prospers and theirs flounder and die and get replaced by a now-wiser player. So I deal. And I post. And I wait for the next character to die so that maybe, just maybe the next PC is something useful.
Funny Slaughter 02-16-04, 08:32 AM	i am quite sure its not that much fun for you. but i am smiling all the time while reading your complaints. when i started to DM 3.0 with my old AD&D-group i have been member of the old boards for some time and since nobody knew the rules but me i created characters following their wishes. i had some hard time beating my own creatures, especially the FB/HL-combo was hard to get without tricky spellcasting. even if you min/max your whole party your players wont be able to use all the tricks, if you want to do it that good you have to play them all yourself, so just let them have fun. how about getting yourself a cohort? have some buff/control-wizboy hanging on your back, this way you have a teleport ready if you need and can help yourself in many situations. a gish will never fullfill the role of a primary caster if he is played well, just get your own one. gs Funny
Myrridin 02-16-04, 08:57 AM	If you want stronger spell casting ability, throw in all five levels of the War Mage PrC from Age of Mortals. Full caster progression, bonus to AC for the whole party, bonus damage per dice, free metamagic feats, and reduced spell failure in armor. It's a great PrC.