A Challenge! [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Challenge! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
hiroshimahamster
05-08-06, 07:58 AM Right... Straight down to business...

I have a challenge for all of you here.

I need a level 50 or so (ouch!) NPC for an epic level dungeon I may run.
She will NOT get played by a PC due to these following details:
- she can cast Fly as a supernatural ability;
- she is Mistress of all magic, arcane and divine;
- she has a mean punch on her; and
- she can change into the shape of animals.

Yes, I am aware that she is practically a god :-p - that is the whole idea...

Come on then! Show what you've got!
You get a cookie if you can make me laugh (or cry) at your combinations!
Lilt
05-08-06, 08:23 AM These sorts of posts are unlikely to spark much interest here. It's getting frightfully close to going against the posting guidelines in the faq.

Essentially: We'd be happy to help you optimise a build if you made it yourself but we're not just trained optimisation monkeys (well, not all of us). We can't just spend the hours (days in some cases) that it takes to make an epic level character when someone snaps their fingers, even if we are given 4 bullet points relating to abilities.
ravenkith
05-08-06, 10:14 AM No contest.

Power Caster:
With 50 levels to burn, no reason not to go:

Favored Soul (Mystra) 4/Sorceror 4/Mystic Theurge 42

At some point (you'll have insane feats), work your way into initiate of mystra, practiced spell caster x2, and the one that lets you take ten on CL checks from complete arcane (Arcane Mastery?). Take the feat that allows you to give up a slot so as to gain a spell like ability.

Make sure to take shapechange as one of your spells.

Make sure to take Righteous Might as one of your spells. (Literally, a punch? Any monster with a slam attack?)

Both classes use CHA as their casting stat (Make sure to have a high WIS though, and you'll need to max out Spellcraft.

With 50 ECL she can become just about anything in the MM I, II, and III, not to mention the fiend folio. Effectively she has 46 hd to play with.

50 ECL....geez.

What CAN'T you do with 50 ECL?

Melee Nightmare:
Christ, take Psychic Warrior 20 and Druid 20. Both Wisdom-based casters. Both powerful classes seperately. Together? Unstoppable. Oh, and lest we forget, you've got 10 levels left for MOMF, Warshaper, or whatever... :rolleyes:
Lilt
05-08-06, 11:15 AM Aside from the fact that ravenkith's build is illegal (there are only 10 levels of MT that you can take before level 20, so you can have at-most 40 levels of MT), Epic Mystic Theurge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClassProgressions.htm#epicMystic Theurge) is utterly useless. It advances arcane/divine/arcane/divine rather than Arc+Div/Arc+Div/Arc+Div/Arc+Div. Although that may not make a big difference in the spells you have available, they both max out at level 20, your caster level will really be suffering. You're better-off taking levels in a class that has better HD, Skill points, or some good class features.

I'd stick with Cleric (or druid and go Arcane Hierophant from RotW) and Wizard rather than Sorcerer and Favoured Soul. It just seems more appropriate for the character (the ability to cast virtually all spells, rather than the ability to cast some from some select lists) and the MAD isn't too much of an issue. Favoured Soul's save DCs are wisdom-based too, so no real advantage there.

Maybe try the following:

Pre-Epic:
Druid 3/Wizard 2/Mindbender 1/Mystic Theurge 2/Arcane Hierophant 10/Loremaster 2
Post-epic:
Mystic Theurge +7/Loremaster +8/Epic Loremaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClassProgressions.htm#epicLorema ster) 15

This build has arcane and divine caster levels 4 or so higher than the pure mystic theurge build and has more abilities to boot. It has exactly the same number of epic feats as the pure mystic theurge build, it has more skill points, and if you're willing to sacrifice those last few points of caster level then you can have another 2-3 epic feats to play with.

I'm not saying that build is perfect, but it's probably more powerful than the pure mystic theurge.
ravenkith
05-08-06, 11:34 AM Man, come on! The character he is creating is DM Fiat!

He can do anything he wants with it. Even adding in a whole 2 extra levels of pre-epic MT. :D

I posted the straight MT as a way of keeping things simple.

Sure, it'd be nice to have this PRC and that combination....but I was trying to point out the futility of calling a 50 ECL build a contest, since it's so wide open.

I haven't played much at Epic, so I wasn't aware of the split progression for MT post 20th. <frowns>. Geez, and I thought MT was lame before.

The idea was to give the highest amount of HD possible to further the shapechanging capabilities while maintaning the 'mastery' of both arcane and divine magics (ie, high caster levels in both classes, preferably with parity).

At ECL 50, it hardly matters if it's optimized, anyways :rolleyes: Pretty much anything you do that's even half optimal is going to take names with Epic Spellcasting. Nothing else really matters when you get that far up the food chain.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hiroshimahamster 05-08-06, 07:58 AM	Right... Straight down to business... I have a challenge for all of you here. I need a level 50 or so (ouch!) NPC for an epic level dungeon I may run. She will NOT get played by a PC due to these following details: - she can cast Fly as a supernatural ability; - she is Mistress of all magic, arcane and divine; - she has a mean punch on her; and - she can change into the shape of animals. Yes, I am aware that she is practically a god :-p - that is the whole idea... Come on then! Show what you've got! You get a cookie if you can make me laugh (or cry) at your combinations!
Lilt 05-08-06, 08:23 AM	These sorts of posts are unlikely to spark much interest here. It's getting frightfully close to going against the posting guidelines in the faq. Essentially: We'd be happy to help you optimise a build if you made it yourself but we're not just trained optimisation monkeys (well, not all of us). We can't just spend the hours (days in some cases) that it takes to make an epic level character when someone snaps their fingers, even if we are given 4 bullet points relating to abilities.
ravenkith 05-08-06, 10:14 AM	No contest. Power Caster: With 50 levels to burn, no reason not to go: Favored Soul (Mystra) 4/Sorceror 4/Mystic Theurge 42 At some point (you'll have insane feats), work your way into initiate of mystra, practiced spell caster x2, and the one that lets you take ten on CL checks from complete arcane (Arcane Mastery?). Take the feat that allows you to give up a slot so as to gain a spell like ability. Make sure to take shapechange as one of your spells. Make sure to take Righteous Might as one of your spells. (Literally, a punch? Any monster with a slam attack?) Both classes use CHA as their casting stat (Make sure to have a high WIS though, and you'll need to max out Spellcraft. With 50 ECL she can become just about anything in the MM I, II, and III, not to mention the fiend folio. Effectively she has 46 hd to play with. 50 ECL....geez. What CAN'T you do with 50 ECL? Melee Nightmare: Christ, take Psychic Warrior 20 and Druid 20. Both Wisdom-based casters. Both powerful classes seperately. Together? Unstoppable. Oh, and lest we forget, you've got 10 levels left for MOMF, Warshaper, or whatever... :rolleyes:
Lilt 05-08-06, 11:15 AM	Aside from the fact that ravenkith's build is illegal (there are only 10 levels of MT that you can take before level 20, so you can have at-most 40 levels of MT), Epic Mystic Theurge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClassProgressions.htm#epicMystic Theurge) is utterly useless. It advances arcane/divine/arcane/divine rather than Arc+Div/Arc+Div/Arc+Div/Arc+Div. Although that may not make a big difference in the spells you have available, they both max out at level 20, your caster level will really be suffering. You're better-off taking levels in a class that has better HD, Skill points, or some good class features. I'd stick with Cleric (or druid and go Arcane Hierophant from RotW) and Wizard rather than Sorcerer and Favoured Soul. It just seems more appropriate for the character (the ability to cast virtually all spells, rather than the ability to cast some from some select lists) and the MAD isn't too much of an issue. Favoured Soul's save DCs are wisdom-based too, so no real advantage there. Maybe try the following: Pre-Epic: Druid 3/Wizard 2/Mindbender 1/Mystic Theurge 2/Arcane Hierophant 10/Loremaster 2 Post-epic: Mystic Theurge +7/Loremaster +8/Epic Loremaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClassProgressions.htm#epicLorema ster) 15 This build has arcane and divine caster levels 4 or so higher than the pure mystic theurge build and has more abilities to boot. It has exactly the same number of epic feats as the pure mystic theurge build, it has more skill points, and if you're willing to sacrifice those last few points of caster level then you can have another 2-3 epic feats to play with. I'm not saying that build is perfect, but it's probably more powerful than the pure mystic theurge.
ravenkith 05-08-06, 11:34 AM	Man, come on! The character he is creating is DM Fiat! He can do anything he wants with it. Even adding in a whole 2 extra levels of pre-epic MT. :D I posted the straight MT as a way of keeping things simple. Sure, it'd be nice to have this PRC and that combination....but I was trying to point out the futility of calling a 50 ECL build a contest, since it's so wide open. I haven't played much at Epic, so I wasn't aware of the split progression for MT post 20th. <frowns>. Geez, and I thought MT was lame before. The idea was to give the highest amount of HD possible to further the shapechanging capabilities while maintaning the 'mastery' of both arcane and divine magics (ie, high caster levels in both classes, preferably with parity). At ECL 50, it hardly matters if it's optimized, anyways :rolleyes: Pretty much anything you do that's even half optimal is going to take names with Epic Spellcasting. Nothing else really matters when you get that far up the food chain.