A Challenge for the Psi-Heads [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Challenge for the Psi-Heads [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DM_Dracophile
05-15-06, 04:46 PM Ok, what I'd like to see is some combo that optimizes The Monastic Servant of Auppenser (http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/leof_msoa.htm) .

Use any book that WotC has put out for 3.5.

If you take careful note, the class can benefit a psionic character, obviously benefits a divine caster, and could even benefit a monk or the like...all depending on the path you take.

I have faith in you guys.

*holds bloody piece of meat over the pit*

Aaaand....

*drops it and opens the cages*

GO!

:schemes:
Tleilaxu_Ghola
05-15-06, 10:07 PM I puke on the flavor of this class, but it's quite powerful. Two feats buys you access to some nifty powers. At least you don't gain access to augmentations.

The skill list is sick for a divine class. I'm thinking druid + this class with egoist discipline would be dandy.

Mix animal companion with fusion and metamorphosis. Uhh yeah, pwnage in a can.

Other than that... I just can't get around how much I hate the class flavor. As if divine magic needed more power. :rolleyes:
DM_Dracophile
05-16-06, 05:10 AM You go from flavor to power...curious.
Personally, as the only existing PrC for a lost period of Realms history, I found it to be (at least!) intriguing.

Further, the biggest thing it does is expand the spell list of the Cleric, while providing flavored bonus feats that could easily be bought anyway. *shrug*

Ah well, the Cleric is an innately overpowered class. We know this.
DM_Dracophile
05-20-06, 02:48 PM Wow, I'm surprised nobody jumped on this.

An opportunity to toy with a class that has yet to see print (and just might, considering the author) and a shot at doing what this board does best; optimizing :D

We're already well aware of problems with the Cleric...but that doesn't invalidate every attempt to work with the class or provide PrCs. Especially not when it touches on the underappreciated Psionics rules :D

Any takers?
lears_fool
05-20-06, 10:00 PM *ponders*

Well, as a class it doesn't seem to stack terribly well with actual psionic classes, as we're already talking about 15 levels dedicated to divine casting. And even for later class levels you're far better off picking up more divine casting levels than you are going for a psi-flavor but non-manifester type class.

Which means, when it comes to taking levels, you're going to want to go divine. Even the psychic theurge really doesn't add more to the table than any of a dozen regular divine PrCs. A couple sound pretty nice when I think about it.

So, what's left to do psionic-wise? The creation feats/items could be nice flavor-wise, especially for the wondrous items. Feat-wise. . *shrug* nothing non-racial jumps out at me. Metamorphic Transfer certainly has potential, now that I think on it.

As a question. . how do augmentations happen? For example, my first assumption would be to have spell level slot parallel power points used. So for example if one has Astral Construct and throws it into a 3rd level slot, it'd count as if five power points were used in the manifestation?

Honestly though, this class isn't that appealing from a psi-liker's standpoint becuase in a way it takes some very unique flair and powers and gives it to a class that's already quite solid and far from underappreciated while in a way making it incompatible with manifesters. To take a manifester level is to weaken the class, not strengthen it.

Perhaps more interesting and appealing would be the creation of some kind of synergy while limiting caster level gains? For examle if it starts out with requirements more like that of a psychic theurge, (both manifester and caster levels required) but rather than granting manifester and casterlevel increases in both classes it instead grants less increases (say +5 to +7 to each over a ten level progression) but synergizes the classes (Allowing the use of the better score for bonus power points/spells . . allowing power points to be used to charge turning attempts. . allowing spell levels to be sacrificed for power points. . that sort of thing).

I do like the path/feat flair, and the backstory has fun potential.

Oh, one observation, in a way you may consider the class limited to five domains, as the sixth, Telepathy, in a way violates the spirit of the class requirements.
DM_Dracophile
05-21-06, 07:51 PM I couldn't agree more about...uhm...and then there was...uh...yeah!

All of it :D

Very good thoughts indeed.

Any ideas on how to pull off that synergy example you threw out?
catharz
05-21-06, 08:31 PM It looks best suited to a generic melee cleric, using Deep Impact (re-focused once per round) for big damage, and all the psionic buffs it can manage.

I don't think the class allows a character to augment powers at all, which in one sense is a shame (it would be really easy to just require the powers prepared in higher slots, that's the whole point of using the same mechanics). In another sense it's a relief, because a cleric could really go crazy with some certain augmented psychometabolism powers.

Also, Telepathy wouldn't violate anything at all. The class is simply restricted from the use of metal domination. That doesn't mean you can't use psychic chiurgury or schism.
lears_fool
05-21-06, 09:11 PM Gah! You mean I have to . .THINK???

*aghast!*

Hmmmmm. . .

Okay, first, a thought that I forgot to mention in my post. Have you seen the Ardent in the Complete Psi yet? It shares some interesting dynamics with the priest class, though it's also very limited in many ways. It's a psion/psiwar hybrid that selects essentially 'domains' to chose powers from. It may be more appropriate for your 'granting powers' concept to actually use the domains described there (there's a deity-domain list even) rather than disciplines.

Okay, now to the concept. Now this is pretty much pulled out of my butt, but consider it generic concept rather than something I actually pored heavily over to balance

First of all, you've got a ten-level prestige class that actually from how you're describing it has a more psi-ish flair than a deific one. However it's very different conceptually from the Ardent or Divine Mind. . but I have no problem with positive plagarism. But what if we merge the classes together (have partial overlap) but at the same time have it be Psi-major Divine-minor? Especially since you're describing it as a class tied to a reawakening of a dead psionic deity, right?

So.. let's see.
BAB: worst
Fort/Will: Best
Ref: Worst
Requirements: Cast 2nd level divine spells. Manifest 1st level powers. Knowledge Religion (8). Knowledge Psionics (2) (figured a few skill points in the cross-class was good, but didn't want to make it a huge skill point sink). Psi Meditation. Etc. Should put us to 5th level before you can take it with a pretty appropriate seeming selection.

Levels
1: Psi Domain. +1 Manifester
2: + 1 Manifester/+1 divine
3: Divine Enhancement, Bonus Feat*
4: Psi Domain. +1 Manifester
5: +1 Manifester/+1 divine
6: Meditative Synergy, Bonus Feat*
7: +1 Manifester/+1 divine
8: Psi Domain/+1 Manifester
9: +1 Manifester/+1 divine
10: Auppenser's Gift +1 Manifester

Psi Domain: The character select Psi Domains from the Ardent/Divine list, and he must choose his powers from that list (utilizing the ardent's 'must have a power point cost equal to or less than your level' mechanic). As lists are added he may select from any of those domains and only from those domains regardless of original manifesting class.

Bonus Feats - given using the little mechanism you put together, that was nicely done

Divine Enhancement: The character can sacrifice a turning as a swift action to strengthen his psionic powers. *could go a couple of ways here. Perhaps applying the effect of a divine metamagic feat he knows to a psi-power or something like that.

Meditative Synergy: The character now uses Wisdom as his primary manifesting statistic. If he already used Wisdom then he gains an effective +2 to that stat for the purposes of calculating bonus power points (only)

Auppenser's gift: Honestly no idea, it'd be pretty nifty I'm sure though.

I'd do better at this, but I'm at work and have to work some. . curse them!

Anyway. .now for my thoughts behind that design. It I think captures a lot of the flair you had, takes advantage of the clever Ardent/Divine mind domains, and provides 8 manifester levels and 4 divine levels. .gradually making him more of a manifester while not totally crippling him divinely. By the end of the class he's in fact likely more of a manifester than a divine caster. If he takes this at level five he'd probably have 8 levels of divine and 9 levels of manifesting at level 15. Less than a psychic theurge but with a couple of perks and certainly more flavor.

And gotta run, work's getting wild :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DM_Dracophile 05-15-06, 04:46 PM	Ok, what I'd like to see is some combo that optimizes The Monastic Servant of Auppenser (http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/leof_msoa.htm) . Use any book that WotC has put out for 3.5. If you take careful note, the class can benefit a psionic character, obviously benefits a divine caster, and could even benefit a monk or the like...all depending on the path you take. I have faith in you guys. holds bloody piece of meat over the pit Aaaand.... drops it and opens the cages GO! :schemes:
Tleilaxu_Ghola 05-15-06, 10:07 PM	I puke on the flavor of this class, but it's quite powerful. Two feats buys you access to some nifty powers. At least you don't gain access to augmentations. The skill list is sick for a divine class. I'm thinking druid + this class with egoist discipline would be dandy. Mix animal companion with fusion and metamorphosis. Uhh yeah, pwnage in a can. Other than that... I just can't get around how much I hate the class flavor. As if divine magic needed more power. :rolleyes:
DM_Dracophile 05-16-06, 05:10 AM	You go from flavor to power...curious. Personally, as the only existing PrC for a lost period of Realms history, I found it to be (at least!) intriguing. Further, the biggest thing it does is expand the spell list of the Cleric, while providing flavored bonus feats that could easily be bought anyway. shrug Ah well, the Cleric is an innately overpowered class. We know this.
DM_Dracophile 05-20-06, 02:48 PM	Wow, I'm surprised nobody jumped on this. An opportunity to toy with a class that has yet to see print (and just might, considering the author) and a shot at doing what this board does best; optimizing :D We're already well aware of problems with the Cleric...but that doesn't invalidate every attempt to work with the class or provide PrCs. Especially not when it touches on the underappreciated Psionics rules :D Any takers?
lears_fool 05-20-06, 10:00 PM	ponders Well, as a class it doesn't seem to stack terribly well with actual psionic classes, as we're already talking about 15 levels dedicated to divine casting. And even for later class levels you're far better off picking up more divine casting levels than you are going for a psi-flavor but non-manifester type class. Which means, when it comes to taking levels, you're going to want to go divine. Even the psychic theurge really doesn't add more to the table than any of a dozen regular divine PrCs. A couple sound pretty nice when I think about it. So, what's left to do psionic-wise? The creation feats/items could be nice flavor-wise, especially for the wondrous items. Feat-wise. . shrug nothing non-racial jumps out at me. Metamorphic Transfer certainly has potential, now that I think on it. As a question. . how do augmentations happen? For example, my first assumption would be to have spell level slot parallel power points used. So for example if one has Astral Construct and throws it into a 3rd level slot, it'd count as if five power points were used in the manifestation? Honestly though, this class isn't that appealing from a psi-liker's standpoint becuase in a way it takes some very unique flair and powers and gives it to a class that's already quite solid and far from underappreciated while in a way making it incompatible with manifesters. To take a manifester level is to weaken the class, not strengthen it. Perhaps more interesting and appealing would be the creation of some kind of synergy while limiting caster level gains? For examle if it starts out with requirements more like that of a psychic theurge, (both manifester and caster levels required) but rather than granting manifester and casterlevel increases in both classes it instead grants less increases (say +5 to +7 to each over a ten level progression) but synergizes the classes (Allowing the use of the better score for bonus power points/spells . . allowing power points to be used to charge turning attempts. . allowing spell levels to be sacrificed for power points. . that sort of thing). I do like the path/feat flair, and the backstory has fun potential. Oh, one observation, in a way you may consider the class limited to five domains, as the sixth, Telepathy, in a way violates the spirit of the class requirements.
DM_Dracophile 05-21-06, 07:51 PM	I couldn't agree more about...uhm...and then there was...uh...yeah! All of it :D Very good thoughts indeed. Any ideas on how to pull off that synergy example you threw out?
catharz 05-21-06, 08:31 PM	It looks best suited to a generic melee cleric, using Deep Impact (re-focused once per round) for big damage, and all the psionic buffs it can manage. I don't think the class allows a character to augment powers at all, which in one sense is a shame (it would be really easy to just require the powers prepared in higher slots, that's the whole point of using the same mechanics). In another sense it's a relief, because a cleric could really go crazy with some certain augmented psychometabolism powers. Also, Telepathy wouldn't violate anything at all. The class is simply restricted from the use of metal domination. That doesn't mean you can't use psychic chiurgury or schism.
lears_fool 05-21-06, 09:11 PM	Gah! You mean I have to . .THINK??? aghast! Hmmmmm. . . Okay, first, a thought that I forgot to mention in my post. Have you seen the Ardent in the Complete Psi yet? It shares some interesting dynamics with the priest class, though it's also very limited in many ways. It's a psion/psiwar hybrid that selects essentially 'domains' to chose powers from. It may be more appropriate for your 'granting powers' concept to actually use the domains described there (there's a deity-domain list even) rather than disciplines. Okay, now to the concept. Now this is pretty much pulled out of my butt, but consider it generic concept rather than something I actually pored heavily over to balance First of all, you've got a ten-level prestige class that actually from how you're describing it has a more psi-ish flair than a deific one. However it's very different conceptually from the Ardent or Divine Mind. . but I have no problem with positive plagarism. But what if we merge the classes together (have partial overlap) but at the same time have it be Psi-major Divine-minor? Especially since you're describing it as a class tied to a reawakening of a dead psionic deity, right? So.. let's see. BAB: worst Fort/Will: Best Ref: Worst Requirements: Cast 2nd level divine spells. Manifest 1st level powers. Knowledge Religion (8). Knowledge Psionics (2) (figured a few skill points in the cross-class was good, but didn't want to make it a huge skill point sink). Psi Meditation. Etc. Should put us to 5th level before you can take it with a pretty appropriate seeming selection. Levels 1: Psi Domain. +1 Manifester 2: + 1 Manifester/+1 divine 3: Divine Enhancement, Bonus Feat* 4: Psi Domain. +1 Manifester 5: +1 Manifester/+1 divine 6: Meditative Synergy, Bonus Feat* 7: +1 Manifester/+1 divine 8: Psi Domain/+1 Manifester 9: +1 Manifester/+1 divine 10: Auppenser's Gift +1 Manifester Psi Domain: The character select Psi Domains from the Ardent/Divine list, and he must choose his powers from that list (utilizing the ardent's 'must have a power point cost equal to or less than your level' mechanic). As lists are added he may select from any of those domains and only from those domains regardless of original manifesting class. Bonus Feats - given using the little mechanism you put together, that was nicely done Divine Enhancement: The character can sacrifice a turning as a swift action to strengthen his psionic powers. *could go a couple of ways here. Perhaps applying the effect of a divine metamagic feat he knows to a psi-power or something like that. Meditative Synergy: The character now uses Wisdom as his primary manifesting statistic. If he already used Wisdom then he gains an effective +2 to that stat for the purposes of calculating bonus power points (only) Auppenser's gift: Honestly no idea, it'd be pretty nifty I'm sure though. I'd do better at this, but I'm at work and have to work some. . curse them! Anyway. .now for my thoughts behind that design. It I think captures a lot of the flair you had, takes advantage of the clever Ardent/Divine mind domains, and provides 8 manifester levels and 4 divine levels. .gradually making him more of a manifester while not totally crippling him divinely. By the end of the class he's in fact likely more of a manifester than a divine caster. If he takes this at level five he'd probably have 8 levels of divine and 9 levels of manifesting at level 15. Less than a psychic theurge but with a couple of perks and certainly more flavor. And gotta run, work's getting wild :)