| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| nick01200012-12-05, 01:59 AM | http://d20npcs.wikicities.com/wiki/Brobdignagian_Teratoid_Tarrasque I challenge you guys to make a party of adventurers of as low a level as possible that can kill this thing. |
| SigmaJargon12-12-05, 02:10 AM | The very, very lowest, and good sense be damned? A single level 5 kobold ftw. I'll consider creating a more serious contender, but I do have two finals over the next couple of days, and this comes second. It is a bit of a ridculous challange, anyways. All the lowest level competitiors will probably be some varient of either an infinite loop or an invulverability scheme (or the two combined) |
| Mystic Ninja12-12-05, 02:58 AM | Out of curiousity, where are those templates from? Oh and I'll see your level 5 kobold psion, and raise you a level 2 wizard. ;) |
| LordofProcrastination12-12-05, 03:28 AM | I was going to say Level 4 Artificer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=546612), but I'm interested in the Wizard option. |
| SigmaJargon12-12-05, 03:34 AM | I was going to say Level 4 Artificer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=546612), but I'm interested in the Wizard option.As am I. Care to elaborate, Mystic Ninja? |
| Mystic Ninja12-12-05, 05:54 AM | A friend of mine claimed he figured out how to pull a "Pun-Pun" at 2nd level wizard, foolishly I believed him as he hasn't been wrong before. Really should have checked before posting, sorry to get ya'll excited. Thou perhaps you could pull it off with a scroll of poly w/ flaws before 5th? Just thinking out loud here, trying to see if I can cover up my overzealousness. I'm still interested in where these templates came from thou, and how they manage to increase a cr by over 2000... |
| Lusden Veharo12-12-05, 07:01 AM | If there's a no SR save-or-die spell, we just need to spam that from above. I didn't see flight in there, nor stuff like see invisibility, and it's not hard to pimp out a hide check on a cloudy day. |
| SigmaJargon12-12-05, 07:04 AM | I'm still interested in where these templates came from thou, and how they manage to increase a cr by over 2000...They are not in the DragonDex or in Crystal Keep, and I can't ever remember seeing anything like them before (with the possible exception of the Kaiju template, which is somewhat similar in flavor) Thus, I assume they are some sort of horrible homebrew. You know, the kind the DM uses when he feels like screwing his players over. As to the second level character, I have no idea how he would pull it off. Scrolls of polymorph would be way out of his price range (you only get 900gp at 2nd level), and there are really no tricks that I can see at the moment. Maybe something will come to mind later. |
| NateNate12-12-05, 07:57 AM | I'd expect a 2nd level party of four characters, with their combined expected wealth of 3600 gp, to be able to pull off the Pun-Pun trick, except that your Polymorphed form is still limited to the Hit Dice of the target. I don't think spamming a save-or-die will work, since the monster has over 20 on both HD and CR, and IIRC epic attack rolls and saving throws don't auto-fail or auto-succeed on a 1 or a 20. A Hulking Hurler at high enough level can auto-defeat it with an item/effect which enables flight. Use any method of Scrying to discern its whereabouts and status. Manifest or activate an item of Temporal Acceleration during the Surprise Round, and manifest/cast/activate an item of a Teleportation effect to move directly above but out of reach of the monster during the first accelerated round. Once Temporal Acceleration ends, you still have your full Surprise Round minus a Swift Action to act. With Master Thrower 5 you use Weak Spot to auto-hit, and deal enough damage to put it at a low enough HP total to Wish it to death (via a Ring of Wishes) in the following round. This could be accomplished at a much lower level with a party of four characters: one Hulking Hurler with Master Thrower 5, one character capable of Scrying on it beforehand, casting Fly on the party, and Teleporting the party within range, and two other characters whose abilities enable the other two to accomplish their tasks at lower levels. Maybe use three Hulking Hurlers, each with Master Thrower 5, to deal enough damage in the Surprise Round to win, with one caster or other character to Scry/Fly/Teleport. I'm not going to bother taking the time to figure out what level it can be done at, but I'd expect it to be the lowest level party capable of defeating it by any conventional means without using infinite loops or the setting-specific tricks of Pun-Pun. |
| Mystic Ninja12-12-05, 05:30 PM | As to the second level character, I have no idea how he would pull it off. Scrolls of polymorph would be way out of his price range (you only get 900gp at 2nd level), and there are really no tricks that I can see at the moment. Maybe something will come to mind later. Polymorph scrolls are 700gp a pop. So assuming the dm ignored that 1/3 gp rule, you can get one [or start with nothing and buy it ingame]. Take assume supernatural ability. So two 2nd level characters can buy a poly scroll from a 14th level caster, or one 3rd level character. I could be just rambling thou as I don't have my books here. Edit: Found the 'templates' - basically a 7x stack of this 'Dire Template' from a third party book 'Immortals' - To be honest I think the OP applied them wrong as well. But still, like everything else it can be kobold'ed [or poisondust lizardfolk'ed] |
| Tleilaxu_Ghola12-12-05, 05:47 PM | This thing has no divine ranks and therefore doesn't scare me at all... not that divine ranks scare me over much... I say we sic the Terminator on this beast. I'll go with the 18th level version (non-divine) so Nomad8/Slayer10 would probably work just fine. Now when was this behemoth born?... :D (oh well, using LoP's trick I could probably get my knowledge the planes or knowledge history high enough and figure that out myself...) All we need now is a dude that's older than the thing (oh and also a dude that was at least 18th level when this thing was born...) |
| deathwishjoe12-12-05, 06:28 PM | hrmmmmm I'm going to use the yathrinsee combo as seen in my sig. favored soul 4/wizard 3/ mystic theurge 6/yathrinsee 1. for the few weeks leading up to the encounter we will sleep above an active slaughter house in a major city. Im going to guess that they go through 1 animal every six seconds for 16 hours a day. if we extend the consumptive field that means for each second where an animal is killed from the spell we gain 2 seconds to the spells duration. it lasts essentially forever, as long as the slaughter house keeps going that is. after one week of this my caster level will be 67200. while this is going on we use power leech to drain a slave or homeless person (a service paid for in gold) and use restoration on him continually to keep him from running out of abilities to drain. after one week of doing this we should have a total of 100,800 to an ability scored for ten minuits per caster level. I choose WIS. we then go up to the monster and use the 5th level cleric spell planeshift to send it to the positive energy plane. I beat it SR with my caster level of 67,200, it fails its save with a DC of 50,415 and its head explodes from the awsomeness of the positive energy plane. death by awsomeness! is there anybody who this doesnt work on? |
| NineInchNall12-12-05, 07:02 PM | If there's a no SR save-or-die spell, we just need to spam that from above. I didn't see flight in there, nor stuff like see invisibility, and it's not hard to pimp out a hide check on a cloudy day. I wonder ... Okay, Killer Gnome. level 15, so Wizard 5/Shadowcrafter 5/Shadowcraft Mage 5. Alright so far? So now the little guy uses Shadow Illusion and Earth spell to heighten silent image to level 9 and mimic true creation to create a gem worth (:cool: ) 6,144,000 gp. He now uses the same method to mimic trap the soul using the trigger object method. Both of these spells are at least 110% real. Now he finds a commoner to dominate. He straps a backpack to the poor commoner and places the gem inside with a nystul's magic aura on it. Finally, he finds the crazy tarrasque and feeds it the commoner. It dies with no save and no SR. This can be done two levels earlier (level 13) with Easy Metamagic (Heighten Spell). Bring on the XP, I says! I know it's a dirty trick, but it's right there in the spell description! :embarrass |
| tsuyoshikentsu12-12-05, 10:19 PM | I don't have BoVD on me, what level do you qualify for Cancer Mage? ;-) Kaiju! THAT's the name! I've been looking for that template EVERYWHERE, but couldn't remember that blasted thing's name! ... Now, to remember what Dragon it's in... :( |
| SigmaJargon12-13-05, 01:35 AM | I don't have BoVD on me, what level do you qualify for Cancer Mage? ;-)The reqs are very, very low. However, you run into problems when you try to get past the two mile reach. Unless you want to destroy the earth in one blow or something similarly spectactular, infinite strength might not get you far enough. Kaiju! THAT's the name! I've been looking for that template EVERYWHERE, but couldn't remember that blasted thing's name! ... Now, to remember what Dragon it's in... :(Dragon 289 ;) |
| Dark Kyosuke12-13-05, 01:46 AM | The damned thing only has 13 INT. A Quickened Twinned Maximized Ray of Stupidity and a Quickened Maximized Ray of Stupidity will drop it. ... If you can bypass its AC... Maybe through use of Nanobots, I don't know... |
| nihility12-13-05, 02:12 AM | The damned thing only has 13 INT. A Quickened Twinned Maximized Ray of Stupidity and a Quickened Maximized Ray of Stupidity will drop it. ... If you can bypass its AC... Maybe through use of Nanobots, I don't know... It still has the carapace thing that stops rays. Its touch AC is -1008, though. Yes, the minus sign is correct. |
| tsuyoshikentsu12-13-05, 02:15 AM | Dragon 289 ;) Thank you, Sigma. My next session will be very, very interesting... |
| Dark Kyosuke12-13-05, 02:24 AM | It still has the carapace thing that stops rays. Its touch AC is -1008, though. Yes, the minus sign is correct. Oh right. I didn't get that far. Plus it's immune to ability damage. So, I guess I was hit by a Ray of Stupidity before I posted. :banghead: Still. Twinned Maximized Rays of Stupidity will drop just about anything else... :nonono: |
| SigmaJargon12-13-05, 02:25 AM | A supernatural Maddening Scream could be a good start to a combo - no save, no sr, and it prevents him from making reflex saves except on a natural 20. I wss thinking Slime Wave at first,l but it deals ability damage.... @tsuyoshikentsu: Welcome. Just don't tell your players who told you. ;) |
| nihility12-13-05, 02:04 PM | Good call on the supernatural ability trick; add the Cheater of Mystra to the list of builds that can take this guy alone well before level 20. |
| Fieari12-17-05, 10:41 PM | The trap the soul thing might work... assuming it has a soul. In Chrono Trigger (the inspiration I used to make it) the big nasty thing was basically a soulless spaceship with massive destructive capabilities, and the real nemesis was another creature inside, similar to Sin in Final Fantasy X. As far as the Terminator goes, Lavos showed up on earth 65,000,000,000 years ago, and likely existed on another world for far far longer. It was just as big and nasty then as it is now. The Cheater of Mysteria, if I'm not mistaken, relies on massive numbers of attacks per round, right? How is it getting past the DR/-? Can it really do all that damage at once? It can fly with Manifest DNA, or it can simply JUMP at you. Check out it's Jump Skill. That's practically flight for most purposes, and it can stand on a cloud when it gets up there due to balance. It's touch AC is -1008, true... but you probably want to attack it from outside of its massive reach, so the range increments'll get you. Don't forget you need to get a Wish past its SR to keep it dead too... |
| nihility12-17-05, 10:49 PM | The Cheater of Mysteria, if I'm not mistaken, relies on massive numbers of attacks per round, right? How is it getting past the DR/-? Can it really do all that damage at once? It relies on casting spells like Lesser Wish and Miracle for free as supernatural abilities. From the SRD: Supernatural Abilities (Su) Supernatural abilities are magical and go away in an antimagic field but are not subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or to being dispelled by dispel magic. Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise. Supernatural abilities may have a use limit or be usable at will, just like spell-like abilities. However, supernatural abilities do not provoke attacks of opportunity and never require Concentration checks. Unless otherwise noted, a supernatural ability has an effective caster level equal to the creature’s Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a supernatural ability is: 10 + ½ the creature’s HD + the creature’s ability modifier (usually Charisma). |
| Fieari12-17-05, 11:03 PM | Must've gotten the Cheater mixed up with another build in my head. Gotcha. Yeah, that seems to effectively demonstrate the brokenness of that build nicely. :) Does Maddening Scream deal more than 285 damage a round? (Edit: Also, as a side note, someone mentioned in the other thread that Gate + Reverse Gravity might work, except that you'd need to be CL 2112-ish just to get the thing to be flung upwards its own space, and that gates are 20' in diameter, not 2 miles, so it wouldn't fit through anyway) |
| Tleilaxu_Ghola12-17-05, 11:40 PM | You know... I wonder if this thing is immune to force damage. If not I think I can take it out with a 20th level dweomer keeper and a lot of time. Anyways, so we have human cleric1/wizard9/Dweomerkeeper10 . No feats required. No infinite loop tricks.. well sort of. We get 4 supernatural spells per day, which means we can prepare and make 4 supernatural explosive runes per day. Each will deal 6d6 dmg no save and no SR if read, force damage. Assuming average damage it would take 2400 days to make these runes. There would be 9600 sheets of paper inscribed with deadly runes. The trick is triggering all of these runes, as they cannot be dispelled. However I think that erase would work as it doesn't dispel them, but requires a caster level check to remove them. If this check fails then the runes are triggered. What we need is a use-activated custom item that erases anything paper in which they come in contact with. Create these at a very low caster level (CL 1). Now for the construction of this D&D nuke: 1. A cardboard box with separated in the middle with a sluice gate. One side is filled with erasing paper clips, the other with our peices of paper. 2. The box is transported to the tarrasque by means of a psion under the spell timeless body (extended). 3. The bomb is activated the next round by the invulnerable psion as a move action by lifting the sluice gate. The readied action of the wizard triggers, teleporting the wizard to the tarrasque's location. 4. The wizard uses a supernatural wish to keep the thing dead (no SR). |
| Upper_Krust12-21-05, 07:42 PM | Hi there SigmaJargon! :) They are not in the DragonDex or in Crystal Keep, and I can't ever remember seeing anything like them before (with the possible exception of the Kaiju template, which is somewhat similar in flavor) Actually they are from the Immortals Handbook - EPIC BESTIARY - Volume One. http://www.immortalshandbook.com/immortalshandbook.htm Thus, I assume they are some sort of horrible homebrew. You know, the kind the DM uses when he feels like screwing his players over. Well they were not necessarily meant to be used in conjunction with Magical Beasts like the Tarrasque (although what the heck I suppose) but instead animals and vermin. |
| SigmaJargon12-21-05, 08:04 PM | Hi there SigmaJargon! :)Why hello! In any case, I can understand why I missed the templates. With the exception of Age of Mortals, I don't own a single non-WotC Dungeons and Dragons book. As a DM, I'd be very wary of players using material from third party books - unless presented with a very compelling reason, I tend to disallow them entirely. Admittedly, the third party books would probably widen my horizons a little, but on a amount of use per cost analysis, the "official" books have always come out ahead in my view. Thanks for clearing the matter up, though! I appreciate it. :) |
| Fieari12-21-05, 09:05 PM | For epic stuff, I can't reccomend the Immortal's Handbook more... it's basically the only epic resource I've seen aside from various house rules and the ELH itself. It not only includes massively powerful creatures and templates (like above), but gives a lot of advice on how to actually use them in a campaign, gives instructions on how to design more things yourself (build-a-golem workshop, any material, for instance) and has adventure hooks for everything. The additional epic feats are nice too. It basically makes ultra-high level gaming possible, something I'd never have thought could be done before. I mean, it doesn't just pump up the numbers, but it gives reasons for the numbers. Enough plugging my favorite product though. So. Basically either the Cheater or Pun-Pun could take Lavos down without too much trouble. Assuming that we restrict matters to "Characters any sane DM would allow, assuming that the DM was insane enough to allow epic-level characters in the first place..." what do you think would stand a chance? I doubt anything sub-epic... |
| Kresalak12-21-05, 10:49 PM | I think I can do this using the Cancer Mage abuse and the Master Transmorgrifists ability to get the Ex abilities of his favored form. Elan Sorcerer8/MTrans10/Cancer Mage 2 with leadershipand maxed Charisma. As your favored form pick Hellwasp Swarm. When you polymorph, you are immune to weapon damage. The only thing Lavos has going for him is damage. Now that we're immune to that, he can't hurt us. But how do we kill him? To kill this guy, we need to do 204,061 damage. Heres how we do so. Using festering anger, wait 300,000 days to get 600,010 Str, which is a +300,000 modifier. This will take too long... Find a plane where time flows fast enough that you can get 300,000 Str in the equivalent of 1 day. Meaning that this plane will have a time flow of roughly 825 years to the day. As an Elan, you can survive that long. You now have two important qualities: One, you're immune to weapon damage. Two, you're doing +300,000 damage each hit, and swinging in at +300,010/+300,005 Now your cohort is a 17th level wizard. Have him establish a telepathic bond between you, so when you go in, ignoring Lavos' attacks and dealing 300k damage in one hit, he can immediatly Wish him dead. So now, does this work or not? |
| NineInchNall12-22-05, 12:47 AM | So. Basically either the Cheater or Pun-Pun could take Lavos down without too much trouble. Assuming that we restrict matters to "Characters any sane DM would allow, assuming that the DM was insane enough to allow epic-level characters in the first place..." what do you think would stand a chance? I doubt anything sub-epic... That's a somewhat harsh restriction, don't you think? I mean, if a character's able to take that thing out sub-epic, then said character would likely be more powerful (by far) than your average, run of the mill fighter, and would hence be somewhat questionable for a "sane DM." No? :P |
| NineInchNall12-22-05, 12:48 AM | I think I can do this using the Cancer Mage abuse and the Master Transmorgrifists ability to get the Ex abilities of his favored form. Elan Sorcerer8/MTrans10/Cancer Mage 2 with leadershipand maxed Charisma. Um, if you're taking MT just for the ability to get the Ex abilities of the form ... Why not drop MT entirely and just learn shapechange at level 18? :confused: |
| tsuyoshikentsu12-22-05, 01:27 AM | Um, if you're taking MT just for the ability to get the Ex abilities of the form ... Why not drop MT entirely and just learn shapechange at level 18? :confused: I think because it modifies your STR into the new form's. |
| GDarius12-22-05, 03:00 AM | The only way to do this I can see (assuming non-epic builds that a sane DM would allow, without using infinite loops, etc.) is a group of Psion(Shaper) 7s. They'd need to manifest enough Quintessence to partially cover Lavos, and then use Power Stones of Psionic Fly to hover out of reach and pour it on him like syrup. Quintessence allows no save, and it's not subject to SR. They'd need to manifest multiple doses to have this take effect with any speed. In 30 days, the group could manifest 960 dollops of Quintessence given their power points (60 each; 14 for an int 18 and 46 for Psion 7). 10 rounds after contact, Lavos would begin taking 960 damage per round (from partial removal from the time stream), which would kill him in just under 40 minutes (due to regeneration). Note that the group could also take 8 years to produce enough Quintessence to outright cover the f***er and remove him from the time stream entirely. The 30 day version is just quicker. |
| Kresalak12-22-05, 08:18 AM | Um, if you're taking MT just for the ability to get the Ex abilities of the form ... Why not drop MT entirely and just learn shapechange at level 18? :confused: Because Polymorph and Shapechange have this line: The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form while alter self is thus: You retain your own ability scores., allowing me to keep my 600,010 Strength and still get the immune to weapon damage, and as an Elan you can shift into a choker, and wish assume supernatural ability you can get its quickness ability if you want. After looking over it, I realized a golems magic immunity is also Ex! This guy may have a use besides slaughtering melee only monsters after all. |
| Harry12-22-05, 11:32 AM | A simple build with completely no dirty tricks, that all DM's should allow: Cleric 10/Wizard 1/Dweomerkeeper 10/Cosmic Descryer 7 Relevant feats: Craft Contingent Spell Quicken Spell Improved Spell Capacity (10) How to kill the Tarrasque quick: Cast Quickened "Holy Word" use Supernatural Spell to make it allow no SR and no ST use Cosmic Connection to get +one million caster level, sacrificing your life effect: Tarrasque is reduced to -10hp Contingent Spells trigger: Revivify - you're ressurected with no level loss Heal - back at 150hp Use standard action to cast Miracle use Supernatural Spell to allow no SR effect: Tarrasque is permanently dead (IMHO the cleanest, least questionable way to kill the T. at reasonable low levels) |
| Kresalak12-22-05, 12:02 PM | Well I can kill the regular Tarrasque at level 5 if I can get access to a Ring of One Wishes and a Type IV Bag of Holding. 1. Fill bag with 1500 1 lb. spheres. 2. Lesser Metamagic Rod Extend a Fly spell, fly up 270 feet. 3. Empty BoH on Tarrasque. Each sphere will do 20d6 damage when it hits, an average of 70 each. 4. 1500*70=105,000 5. Yes, that is One Hundred Thousand and Five average damage. 6. Wish it dead. The only thing stopping Mr. Lavos from succumbing to this is his exorbiantly high damage reduction. |
| Gurthoron12-22-05, 01:29 PM | Well, it is not immune to ability drain so it is vulnerable to the same tactic I love against the normal Tarrasque: Allips. There is now a spell (3rd level I believe) that summons them similar to summon monster. A cleric loaded to the brim with those (or someone with a wand) and a way to stay out of the creature's reach (I like Meld into Stone) can kill the thing without undo difficulty. Spend a few rounds summoning them underground, then have them pop up at once and attack. They can't miss the bloody thing, and deal 2.5 wis drain per hit. That means our enormous friend can be taken down in one round by 6 allips. An 8th lvl cleric, itemless, could probably manage it. Hows that for a realistic, non-cheap build. [EDIT] Oops, forgot about the wishes. Well, you need one item then, and its cost could put the necessary level a little higher. |
| Kresalak12-22-05, 01:38 PM | A simple build with completely no dirty tricks, that all DM's should allow: Cleric 10/Wizard 1/Dweomerkeeper 10/Cosmic Descryer 7 Relevant feats: Craft Contingent Spell Quicken Spell Improved Spell Capacity (10) How to kill the Tarrasque quick: Cast Quickened "Holy Word" use Supernatural Spell to make it allow no SR and no ST use Cosmic Connection to get +one million caster level, sacrificing your life effect: Tarrasque is reduced to -10hp Contingent Spells trigger: Revivify - you're ressurected with no level loss Heal - back at 150hp Use standard action to cast Miracle use Supernatural Spell to allow no SR effect: Tarrasque is permanently dead (IMHO the cleanest, least questionable way to kill the T. at reasonable low levels) IIRC the Cosmic Descryer allows you to give up that much HP to get the bonus on the next spell you cast, so this would not work as is. However, I believe sticking a Delay Death and a Beastland Ferocity (Dirty Trick #2 has SO many uses...) will allow you to get your CL up to [whatever you want] for the next spell. Needs 5 levels of druid though. |
| Harry12-23-05, 01:09 PM | Gurthoron - meld with stone won't help you, as the Mr.T can attack ground and make holes huge enough to reveal you, so your allips won't get close enough to him to attack Kresalak - as long as Cosmic Connection is active (70 rounds) I can get those huge CL bonuses to any spell while casting it, but Beastland Ferocity + Delay Death combo can easily work, as the druidic spell can be duplicated with Miracle. There many other ways of surviving the CC damage, for example Shapechange into Solar (Regeneration) + contingent Refreshment (heals all nonlethal dmg). |
| Kresalak12-23-05, 03:58 PM | Gurthoron - meld with stone won't help you, as the Mr.T can attack ground and make holes huge enough to reveal you, so your allips won't get close enough to him to attack Kresalak - as long as Cosmic Connection is active (70 rounds) I can get those huge CL bonuses to any spell while casting it, but Beastland Ferocity + Delay Death combo can easily work, as the druidic spell can be duplicated with Miracle. There many other ways of surviving the CC damage, for example Shapechange into Solar (Regeneration) + contingent Refreshment (heals all nonlethal dmg). So that means the beast goes down at level 28. Since it was pointed out that my trick will not work as-is, you have the current record for killing this thing. |
| Fieari12-24-05, 09:03 PM | Since the range on Holy Word is 40 ft, you're going to need a cohort to cast "Teleport" for you, and you'd better make sure your initiative count is timed up correctly, as a misjudgement here means you still sacrifice your life, but to no effect. But very cool build, I like it. I'm not familiar with Cosmic Descryer... does sacrificing your life in this manner prevent you from being ressurected? If not... wow. At level 20, death is more of a speed bump than anything else, and getting huge bonuses to your CL can accomplish incredible things. |
| Kresalak12-24-05, 09:53 PM | [...]I'm not familiar with Cosmic Descryer... does sacrificing your life in this manner prevent you from being ressurected?[...] Nope. The ability allows you to take 5 damage to get a +1 bonus on your caster level. Nothign stops you from coming back; or even have a contigent True Ressurection to bring you back. |
| Harry12-25-05, 06:43 AM | Since the range on Holy Word is 40 ft, you're going to need a cohort to cast "Teleport" for you, and you'd better make sure your initiative count is timed up correctly, as a misjudgement here means you still sacrifice your life, but to no effect. You can teleport yourself next to Tarrasque as a suprise round, then easily win initiative and kill it. (since cosmic connection can give bonuses to attack rolls, to caster level, to skill and ability checks, you can take 100dmg for +20 initiative, as written in SRD, initiative is an "Ability check") |
| Fieari12-25-05, 09:17 PM | How do you manage the fact that you need to cast two spells with the huge CL? Both Holy Word and Wish need that extra punch... |
| Ectoplasmoid12-25-05, 10:44 PM | Half-Fey Star Elf Bard7/Marshal 1: Feats: Undead Leadership, Magical Aptitude, Skill Focus (UMD) Items of Note: Cloak of Charisma +4, Scroll of Ethereal Jaunt, Scroll of Maximized Summon Undead IV Step 1: Summon 3 Allips- With the three from undead leadership. that's 6. Step 2: Travel underground in order to avoid detection. Step 3: Pop up and swing! 6x2.5=15 Wis Drain and game. |
| Uberman12-25-05, 11:03 PM | Will the Tarrasque attempt to flee when we start kicking it's ass? |
| Uberman12-25-05, 11:05 PM | Half-Fey Star Elf Bard7/Marshal 1: Feats: Undead Leadership, Magical Aptitude, Skill Focus (UMD) Items of Note: Cloak of Charisma +4, Scroll of Ethereal Jaunt, Scroll of Maximized Summon Undead IV Step 1: Summon 3 Allips- With the three from undead leadership. that's 6. Step 2: Travel underground in order to avoid detection. Step 3: Pop up and swing! 6x2.5=15 Wis Drain and game. It's immune to .Ability damage/drain. |
| Uberman12-25-05, 11:31 PM | Two Characters: Assuming Savage Species is allowed(Being 3.0), an Imp Fiend of Possesion6/Sorc1. Secondary character requires lvl 5 Bard/6 Horizon Walker(With wing Grafts from Fiend Folio). with the following skills: 5 ranks Decipher Script, 14 ranks Use Magic Device. Max possible Charisma.. UMD check: +23 mod (Assuming a 16 starting, +2 lvl + 6 cha item=22) Assuming no Savage Species, change Imp to Succubus(lvl 18 equiv instead of 14) (Fiend folio is accepted as 3.5 compatible) Step 1: Bard Be Invisible. Step 2: Fiend Possess Sovereign Glue (the glue itself). Step 3: Bard Be 1000' above tarrasque's Head level. Step 4: Find Tarrasque Step 5: Bard Get directly above Tarrasque Step 6: Bard Drop Glass vial of glue(Assuming u can hit a over 2 mile wide creature that CAN'T move out of the way in time.. Space 10000 Ft, movement 240 feet...). Step 7: Glue stick. Step 8: Fiend Keep attempting possession until Tarrasque Nat 1's. (we do realize this could take a LONG time.) Step 9: Make Tarrasque Drown self (don't hold your breath). Lower Tarrasques SR, WHILE the tarrasque is drowning (3 rounds) have Bard use scroll of Greater Heroism to raise it's UMD to +27. Then once the 3 rounds are up, Wish it dead with a scroll. (DC 29 Use Magic Device.. need to roll a 2 or better.) Step 10: PARTY. |
| Ectoplasmoid12-26-05, 12:12 AM | It's immune to .Ability damage/drain. Nope, just damage. It's immune to energy drain, but that's a different story. Any other objections? Also, don't triple post. |
| Uberman12-26-05, 12:18 AM | Nope, just damage. It's immune to energy drain, but that's a different story. Any other objections? Also, don't triple post. If drain and damage aren't the same then UNDEAD aren't immune to Ability Damage. They state Immunity to Energy Drain and Ability Drain. So by your ruling, Undead ARE subject to ability damage? |
| tommy_the_cat12-26-05, 12:34 AM | Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects. yeah, they're subject to it. if you can find somthing that deals ability damage to a mental score ;) |
| Uberman12-26-05, 05:04 AM | yeah, they're subject to it. if you can find somthing that deals ability damage to a mental score ;) n/m |
| Gurthoron12-27-05, 01:16 PM | Well, Meld to Stone was just one option. And it doesn't help him if he does not know I am in the ground in question. It would require me to predict his movements, but they aren't exactly the most difficult critters to predict what they plan to do. I could use other things (sit in a stone shaped cavern beneath the surface, teleport in, planeshift in, whatever) with slight level changes for different options. The Allips will work for the attack, you just need to get them close enough for them to get their attacks. By just having them move along under the ground until they are underneath its feat, they are not in danger from being attacked. And with six you only need 1 round on average; I'd use 8 to be safe. Perhaps summon them, planeshift in,(Using amulet that does it, and having something to boost your check) then have the Allips do their readied attacks against it. Then Wish it dead. Piece of cake, and it doesn't require a character designed specifically to kill the thing, or any special items outside of the Wish. That is what I like best about this, a straight cleric can manage this without even being geared towards its destruction. |
| Uberman12-27-05, 08:41 PM | Current Characters: Orcish 1/2 Ogre w/ Winged Template. LVl 2 fighter/1 Pal/1 tattooed monk. 1/2 Dragon 1/2 Ogre LVL 1 Cleric/Lvl 1 Wizard/Lvl 1 Bard. Equipment: (Pooled Resources) 1 scroll: Wish 1 +1 Bow of Frost. as many thousands of arrows as we can afford/carry (Aprox 10 K). Sit 2,500 Feet above it, keep pelting with arrows. Eventually (after 8K shots using law of averages) you will Triple Crit, meaning it DIES. (The cold from the bow will go through it's DR, meaning you actualy can triple crit it). Once it's dead, second character wishes it to stay dead... um.. still working on the "overcome SR" problem... |
| Uberman12-28-05, 12:10 AM | New information has been brought to my attention. The Allips cannot kill the tarrasque. I have just been informed by the local twink that reducing the Tarrasque's wis to 0 does NOT kill it, it puts it into a nightmare-filled coma... Therefore you have NOT completed the challenge. See there's LOTS of ways to 'defeat' the tarrasque, but the challenge was to KILL it. And not that even if it's unconscious you still have to reduce it to -10 and then beat it's SR with a Wish. |
| Rashomon12-28-05, 03:56 AM | New information has been brought to my attention. The Allips cannot kill the tarrasque. I have just been informed by the local twink that reducing the Tarrasque's wis to 0 does NOT kill it, it puts it into a nightmare-filled coma... Therefore you have NOT completed the challenge. See there's LOTS of ways to 'defeat' the tarrasque, but the challenge was to KILL it. And not that even if it's unconscious you still have to reduce it to -10 and then beat it's SR with a Wish. CDG him every round until he dies, hit him for 30 hp after that, wish him into nonexistence. |
| Harry12-28-05, 04:20 AM | CDG him every round until he dies, hit him for 30 hp after that, wish him into nonexistence. Every round he fast heals so fast, you may have problems with it, and he's got so Cosmic fortitude save, that you'll have to CDG him with Scythe and have a lot Str. Even then, Wish has to beat his SR, and I don't think there other methods of doing it, than from my initial post (cosmic connection or supernatural spell). |
| Fieari01-03-06, 09:53 PM | The regen and DR are tricky to get by, that and the fact that if it gets a hold of you, there's little you can do to survive. Maybe split up the beast into various different categories. The cosmic connection trick can bypass the SR at level 28, but can't bring it down to -10 hp first. Can we come up with a teammate that can deal the damage? For challenge purposes, let's say just someone who can get past the DR with a single attack. Or has a Su ability (restricted to reasonable abilities per ECL again, the cheater is too easy) that can deal more than the regen in damage in a turn... And perhaps to round things out, can you make a tank that can survive a hit (or multiple hits) from the beast, on the nasty assumption that Lavos gets a surprise round on you somehow, and you need somone to gather up the corpses of your friends to get a ressurection for them? |
| Harry01-04-06, 09:24 AM | The cosmic connection trick can bypass the SR at level 28, but can't bring it down to -10 hp first. It can, read the post #35, anyway the idea to do this as team combined from various people's ideas is also quite good. |
| Kresalak01-04-06, 09:36 AM | New plan! I shall use a Frenzied Berserker/Cancer Mage with enough STR to knock Lavos down to -A lot with one hit, and a Cosmic Descryer under the effects of Beastland Ferocity and Delay Death. Frenzied Berserker smashes his with any weapon. Let's use the body of the normal Tarrasque for irony. CD takes 10^(10^100) damage to get a CL boost of 10^(10^100). CD casts Miracle, or Wish if you want via level 10 spells and Extra Spell. The Miracle of Wish kills Lavos. Frenzied Berserker waits until his Frenzy is over, then brings back the now dead CD. Team of a level 20 and a level 28. WHat fun! |
| Fieari01-04-06, 02:36 PM | It can, read the post #35, anyway the idea to do this as team combined from various people's ideas is also quite good. You need to do the Cosmic Connection thing twice, once for the Holy Word, and once for the Wish. As using CC kills you, using it for Holy Word gives it a chance to Regen. |
| IThoughtISawA...01-04-06, 07:54 PM | This is likely far from the lowest level it could be beaten, but its an easy win at a lower level than any mentioned after the "must be sane" caveat, and it's perfectly sane. Human Archivist 7/Dread Necromancer 1 (just for turning, really)/Dweaomerkeeper 10. Nothing special, really, you've seen the ability used, you just haven't seen the correct SPELL. Shapechange to a choker (for that all important extra action), cast spell turning (stupid 30% ray backfire), cast Ghostform (just in case something weird happens), and get teleported into position by a cohort. Use your supernatural spell ability and divine metamagic to cast a Twinned Avasculate (or Avascular Mass if you want to show off and really mess some #$^&#%7 up). Avasculate's save is NA (who cares if its stunned for one round or not, it won't survive) and it reduces the target's HP by half. As its twinned, that's 2 1/2's or all its HP. Use your choker quickness action to cast any number of no SR spells that do damage, apply appropriate metamagic so that it does the requisite amount (orb's come to mind as the easiest). Use your supernatural spell ability and divin metamagic to cast a quickenned Miracle (or Wish, whicher you felt like memorizing that morning) to kill the thing. Bang. Anything in the game that doesn't have the mage slayer feats or a way to pre-empt initiative (which is what stops this from beating Pun-Pun) is dead. Through use of Southern Magician or Alternate Source Spell, an Archivist cna have literally any spell in the game made into a Divine scroll and added to his/her prayerbook (just thought I'd preempt some "but you can't do that..."). Avasculate for the win. Next victim, please. ~ITISA. -If it can't be done by an archavist or an artificer, it ain't worth doing. |
| Harry01-05-06, 08:29 AM | You need to do the Cosmic Connection thing twice, once for the Holy Word, and once for the Wish. As using CC kills you, using it for Holy Word gives it a chance to Regen. As I wrote boefore, contingent Revivify, ressurects you immediately and allows you to cast the second spell. Also you can use Delay Death + Beastland Ferocity and taking even 1000000million damage doesn't do anything to you. IThoughtISawA... : Avasculate makes target lose half of it's CURRENT hit points, so Twinned Avasculate, that takes half and then half, take 3/4 hp total. Leaving Tarrasque with 1/4 of it's starting hp. Also T.'s carapace has 30% chance of bouning ray back at you, otherwise ray is just negated (deflected), so your rays never work on him. |
| SupercrazyDM01-05-06, 08:56 AM | Pun Pun the characterhttp://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=491801 Or a person with a nuke :D |
| Fieari01-12-06, 02:59 AM | Yes, yes, Pun Pun can destroy anything. A nuke, on the other hand... well, it depends on the yeild. A big enough yield'll destroy just about anything, of course, but lets look at the numbers. From the Immortal's Handbook: KILOTON Evocation Spellcraft DC: 381 Components: V, S. Casting Time: 1 action Range: 3,000 ft. Effect: Variable (see below) Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude partial. Spell Resistance: No To Develop: 900,000 gp; 18 days; 36,000 XP; Seeds: afflict (DC 14), destroy (DC 29), energy (DC 19) and slay (DC 25). Factors: change from bolt to ball (+2 DC), increase range 900% (+18 DC), increase area 4900% (+196 DC), increase afflict damage 14 points (+56 DC), increase destroy damage by 40d6 (+80 DC), increase energy damage by 30d6 (+60 DC). Mitigating factors: burn 10,000 XP (-100 DC), increase casting time to 10 minutes (- 20 DC). This spell creates a massive atomic explosion, mimicking the effects of one kiloton of TNT. The conflagration has four different effects. Firstly, anyone within 150 a feet radius of the epicenter must make a Fortitude save or be disintigrated. Secondly, anyone standing within 250 feet of the epicenter suffers 40d6 fire damage (Fortitude save for half ). Thirdly the shockwave deals 60d6 bludgeoning damage up to a 1000 foot radius (Fortitude save for half). Lastly, anyone within 1000 feet of the epicenter suffers radiation poisoning, which deals 6 points of damage to their Constitution, Dexterity and Strength. Lavos is immune to ability damage, immune to fire damage, and if I'm not mistaken, Damage Reduction applies to bludgeoning damage whether it's magical in origin or not (and besides, we're assuming a physical nuke anyway). Little Boy was 15 kilotons. Fatman was 21 kilotons. So 1260d6 for Fatman, average 4410 damage... modified by DR (3435) and we're left with 975. Fully regenerated in 4 rounds (less than half a minute). To bring it to -10 with one bomb, it needs to do 204071 bludgeoning damage. That's the equivelent of somewhere between 46 and 47 Nagasaki bombs. Now, at the upper range of what we're capable of these days... According to Wikipedia, the most powerful hydrogen bombs today have an estimated yeild of about 20 megatons, or 20,000 kilotons, for 1,200,000d6 bludgeoning damage, at an average of 4,200,000 damage. That's plenty. Of course, you'll still need the help of our friend the cosmic descrier, or the cheater, or Pun-Pun or some such to keep it dead, otherwise it's right back on its feet in six seconds (or less, depending on initiative), and back at full health in 704 rounds (4223 seconds, aka 70 minutes, aka 1 hour 10 minutes). Hrm. Come to think of it, those numbers don't look right. I think I may have goofed on the regen stats... I was trying to have it regen with the same ratio as the "little" tarrasque... |
| Fieari01-12-06, 05:30 AM | Lavos updated with more authentic regeneration rate, to match the smaller tarrasque's regen ratio. Both can now fully regen in about 21 or 22 rounds. |
| Upper_Krust01-12-06, 06:50 AM | Hey there, Actually I just noticed a massive error in your nuclear weapon scaling Fieari mate. You don't simply multiply the damage per kiloton, it actually increases x2 for every x64 energy yield increase in the nuke. Hope that helps. ;) |
| Fieari01-12-06, 04:35 PM | So that makes Fatman (21 kilotons) do... um. math. 21/64 + 1 = 0.328125 (that's a 32.8% increase from 1 kiloton) 60 * 0.328125 = 19.6875 60 + 20 = 80. So Fatman deals 80d6 bludgeoning damage, for an average of 280... not even enough to scratch 'im. Now, 20 megatons... 20,000 kilotons. That's double the power of 312.5 kilotons, which is double the power of 4.8828125 kilotons. 4.8828125/64 = 0.0762939453125 (a 7.6% increase from 1 kiloton) 60 * 0.0762939453125 = 4.57763671875 So a five-ish kiloton nuke deals 65d6 bludgeoning damage. A 313-ish kiloton nuke deals 130d6 bludgeoning damage, and a 20 megaton nuke deals 260d6 bludgeoning damage, or 910 on average. Still not enough to get past the armor... A 1.2 gigaton nuke, using exotic materials or antimater or something like that, would do 520d6 bludgeoning damage, or 1820 on average... not enough even yet. An 81.9 gigaton nuke would do 1080d6 bludgeoning damage, or 3640... just barely enough to scratch it for a couple of seconds (205 damage after DR). A 5.2 teraton nuke would deal 2160d6 bludgeoning damage, 7280 on average. Now we're starting to do a little bit of damage. Just a little bit though... For comparison, StarDestroyer.net (http://stardestroyer.net/tlc/Power/index.html) estimates 250 Terajoules of energy in an Imperial StarDestroyer's Medium Turbolaser blast. 1 kiloton of TNT = 4.184 TJ, so 250 TJ = a mere 59 kilotons. You need a REALLY REALLY big nuke to even damage it. The size of the nuke needed to bring it down to -10 hp is astronomical. |