Post/Author/DateTime	Post
the_LICH 02-04-06, 12:44 PM	I was trying to build a character that can play literally any role in the party and be great at it! this is what I came up with: Bard 1 / Archivist 1 / Battle-Sorcerer 4 / Divine Oracle 2 / Mystic Theurge 2 / Sublime Chord 2 / Fochluchan Lyrist 8 Race: Human Feats: Skill Focus [Knowledge(Religion)], Practiced Spellcaster [Sorcerer], Delay Spell, Practiced Spellcaster [Archivist], Arcane Strike, Power Attack, EWP [Mercurial GW], Able Learner Caster Level Sorcerer: 6 (10) Caster Level Cleric: 13 (17) Caster Level Sublime Chord: 10 (20) Barid Music as level 11 Bard BAB: 14 Base Saves: Fort +5 Ref +9 Will +23 32 Point Buy Ability Scores: STR 14 DEX 10 CON 12 INT 16 WIS 10 CHA 15 (20) The character can fight and deal great damage with all his buffs. He can heal, he has lots of support options and great social and rogue skills. He can also nuke with the right spell choises. Any corrections to my build or suggestions to further bump him up?
Caelic 02-04-06, 02:08 PM	He has the problems common to most MyTh builds: at low to mid levels, the party's really going to have to carry him. At high levels, he becomes effective, but still trades raw power for his versatility. Truthfully, I have yet to see a better "Do anything" character than a straight Artificer, but that's a high bar to set.
ed209 02-04-06, 02:13 PM	... Not TOO bad, except for missing knowing Druidic as a language, and that not everyone agrees that Divine Oracle gives you Evasion...
jack haas 02-04-06, 02:15 PM	just a couple of things i noticed: how are you meeting the pre-req's for fochluchan lyrist? you need language: druidic and evasion to do get into that prc. as well, even with human, you will suffer xp penalties for having bard1/archivist1/battle sorceror4.
Slyver 02-04-06, 02:33 PM	just a couple of things i noticed: how are you meeting the pre-req's for fochluchan lyrist? you need language: druidic and evasion to do get into that prc. as well, even with human, you will suffer xp penalties for having bard1/archivist1/battle sorceror4. Learning druidic is most certainly possible within the rules without taking the druid class. You just need to get a druid to teach you, which, while problematic is not impossible and can make for some fun RPing. Divine diciple gives you an evasion-like ability subject to DM approval to qualify as it is not strictly RAW. How does he get an exp penalty? the_Lich, your caster level for sorcerer spells is 20, not 10. SC adds its caster levels to the original class. Bardic music is only effective level 9 (10). SC adds 1/2 its level to number of musics/day, but nothing to what musics are available/power of musics, but 9 or 11 is effectively the same thing. Slyver
the_LICH 02-04-06, 02:36 PM	just a couple of things i noticed: how are you meeting the pre-req's for fochluchan lyrist? you need language: druidic and evasion to do get into that prc. as well, even with human, you will suffer xp penalties for having bard1/archivist1/battle sorceror4. How is that I suffer xp penalties??? And about druidic language, its just a skill. It is not easy to learn but there are ways to either bluff a druid to train you to it, or find an ex-druid to teach you. If I am wrong please correct me in this. About evasion, the 2nd level Divine Oracle ability imo does it. And I cant see any reason why it shouldnt :P Its description is pretty clear to me.
the_LICH 02-04-06, 02:39 PM	the_Lich, your caster level for sorcerer spells is 20, not 10. SC adds its caster levels to the original class. Nice :) I just noticed it. Things get even better :)
jack haas 02-04-06, 02:47 PM	How is that I suffer xp penalties??? And about druidic language, its just a skill. It is not easy to learn but there are ways to either bluff a druid to train you to it, or find an ex-druid to teach you. If I am wrong please correct me in this. About evasion, the 2nd level Divine Oracle ability imo does it. And I cant see any reason why it shouldnt :P Its description is pretty clear to me. battle sorceror is a variant base class from unearthed arcana, no? two base classes at level 1 and one base class at level 4 makes an xp penalty, no? as far as obtaining druidic through rp'ing, i suppose you could do that. despite the fact that teaching any non-druid the druidic language is strictly forbidden, yada, yada, yada, i was under the impression that we were supposed to make suggestions based on RAW, forgoing rp'ing considerations for the most part. *shrugs*
Slyver 02-04-06, 02:59 PM	battle sorceror is a variant base class from unearthed arcana, no? two base classes at level 1 and one base class at level 4 makes an xp penalty, no? No. as far as obtaining druidic through rp'ing, i suppose you could do that. despite the fact that teaching any non-druid the druidic language is strictly forbidden, yada, yada, yada, i was under the impression that we were supposed to make suggestions based on RAW, forgoing rp'ing considerations for the most part. *shrugs* It is RAW. In all ways and in all worlds it is RAW. It is not easy, it takes roleplaying, but there is no doubt it is RAW. Slyver
Caelic 02-04-06, 03:17 PM	A better alternative to Divine Oracle, if you want to be fully within the rules, is to free up the feats for the one soulmeld (Rogue's Boots?) that grants both Evasion and Uncanny Dodge. Common sense aside, strictly by the RAW Prescient Sense is not Evasion, though it's very similar.
the_LICH 02-04-06, 03:30 PM	A better alternative to Divine Oracle, if you want to be fully within the rules, is to free up the feats for the one soulmeld (Rogue's Boots?) that grants both Evasion and Uncanny Dodge. Common sense aside, strictly by the RAW Prescient Sense is not Evasion, though it's very similar. I just looked it up. Impulse boots as they are called grant only uncanny dodge. Inorder to get evasion you need the chakra... :(
Esponer 02-04-06, 03:36 PM	battle sorceror is a variant base class from unearthed arcana, no? two base classes at level 1 and one base class at level 4 makes an xp penalty, no? Not in this case. As a human, he ignores his highest level standard class – battle sorcerer, and so for the purposes of multiclassing he is a Bard 1 / Archivist 1. No multiclassing penalties. If he had 4 levels in two classes and one in the other, he would take multiclassing penalties (the only way to avoid that would be to have the dip be your favoured class). The build's okay with DM fíat, and DM fíat isn't out of the question because it's not too powerful. Strictly by the rules, there are some issues.
rilem 02-04-06, 03:38 PM	They're Impulse Boots, but yes, that's the better option to be fully legal. If prescient sense were evasion, they'd call it evasion. And if Foch. Lyrist required Evasion or Prescient Sense, it'd say so. Two feats: Shape Soulmeld and Open Chakra.
Caelic 02-04-06, 03:39 PM	Right, but it's the foot chakra, which I believe you can open with the "Open Least Chakra" feet. (You may want to double-check, as I don't have the book here.) Two feats is a fairly big expenditure, yes, but it leaves you one hundred percent within the rules, gives you another couple of levels to play with, and nets you Uncanny Dodge as a bonus.
the_LICH 02-04-06, 04:41 PM	I decided to change my build to your suggestions. Indeed those 2 incarnum feats are worth it. I dropped skill Focus [Knowledge Religion] (no more Divine Oracle) and Quick Draw for them. Bard 1 / Archivist 3 / Battle-Sorcerer 4 / Mystic Theurge 2 / Sublime Chord 2 / Fochluchan Lyrist 8 Race: Human Feats: Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots), Open Least Chakra (feet), Practiced Spellcaster [Battle-Sorcerer], Practiced Spellcaster [Cleric], Arcane Strike, Power Attack, EWP [Mercurial GW], Able Learner Caster Level Sorcerer: 6 (20) Caster Level Cleric: 13 (17) Caster Level Sublime Chord: 10 (20) Barid Music as level 10 Bard BAB: 14 Base Saves: Fort +6 Ref +10 Will +20 32 Point Buy Ability Scores: STR 14 DEX 10 CON 14 INT 16 WIS 8 CHA 15 (20)
Slyver 02-04-06, 06:42 PM	Ok, let me try with a touch more cha synergy and fighting prowess. 1 Bard Two weapon fighting, power attack, Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots), Open Least Chakra (feet), Flaw (Vulnerable or shaky), Flaw (murky eyed) 2 Cleric War (weapon focus longsword), Time (improved initiative) (domains are optional) 3 Bard snowflake wardance 4 Cleric 5 fighter Oversized two weapon fighting 6 Bard Practiced spellcaster (Bard) 7 Cleric 8 Bard 9 Mystic theurge divine might 10 Mystic theurge 11 spellsword 12 Sublime Chord Improved two weapon fighting 13 fochlucan lyirst 14 fochlucan lyirst 15 fochlucan lyirst Arcane strike 16 fochlucan lyirst 17 fochlucan lyirst 18 fochlucan lyirst Practiced spellcaster (cleric) 19 fochlucan lyirst 20 fochlucan lyirst BAB 16 Fort 11 Ref 10 Will 20 Bardic music 12 Bard casting 7(19) SC casting 9(19) Cleric casting 13(17) Didn't check if it's legal, just threw it together. A touch more MAD than I like, but focuses mostly on Cha. Slyver Edit: Was too hasty in my post. Had to make it legal.
the_LICH 02-04-06, 10:55 PM	Nice Build Slyver though there are a couple of things I dont like about it. Bard instead of sorcerer means that I loose some godly low-level sorcerer spells such as wraith-strike, haste, and lion's charge. TWF means that I will need a lot of dex. and cleric instead of archivist means that I will need wisdom too. things get tough ... Otherwise if one has the luxury for high overall ability scores the TWF and cleric idea is certainly worth it. Lots of additional mellee damage :) (btw I think you calculated cleric caster level wrong. Its 13)
Slyver 02-05-06, 04:47 PM	Nice Build Slyver though there are a couple of things I dont like about it. Bard instead of sorcerer means that I loose some godly low-level sorcerer spells such as wraith-strike, haste, and lion's charge. TWF means that I will need a lot of dex. and cleric instead of archivist means that I will need wisdom too. things get tough ... Otherwise if one has the luxury for high overall ability scores the TWF and cleric idea is certainly worth it. Lots of additional mellee damage :) (btw I think you calculated cleric caster level wrong. Its 13) Well, first point, with battle sorcerer you are only going to know 1 second and 1 third level spell, which makes it difficult. You can pick up those spells known from SC levels if you wish. (You can pick lower level spells for spells known.) Something you can do with bard or sorcerer. You really don't need that much wisdom, or dex for that matter. 17 wisdom to cast 7th level spells, 17 dex for ITWF. Not that hard to get by level 20 and 12 respectively. Also, you only need 12 int to qualify for all the classes (if human). You would need more int than that with an archivist. With this build you are just trading wis for int. But yes, for certain, the build is MAD. For god's sake, it is a do everything build. It kicks ass in melee, casts 9th level arcane spells and 7th level divine spells. Has 12th level bardic music and tons of skill points. The only thing it can't do is disable traps (summon monster :) ) Slyver