Post/Author/DateTime	Post
irzg9zh3psgq3m09 03-19-06, 01:08 PM	My friend and I were fooling around with an idea of a character that forces its opponent to make as many death saves in one attack as possible. We're only using 3.5 core and complete books, and so far I got: 50+ damage: Fort DC 15 Warmage (6): in order to become a spellsword Spellsword (4): Channel spell 3/day (phantasmal killer), Will DC 10+class lvl+Cha, then Fort DC same Assassin (1): Death attack, Fort DC 10+class lvl+Int (equipping an Assassin's Dagger would help, +1 on DC) Ghost-faced Killer (3): Frightful attack 1/day, Will DC 10+class lvl+Cha The best weapons to use would probably be the Assassin's Dagger and the Nine Lives Stealer (Fort DC 20 on crits). I probably need a few levels of rogue in there for the skill requirements to become these PrC's (Assassin and GFK need lots of skills), but I haven't had time to calculate how this is exactly going to work. I'm not asking any of you to work this out for me (although it would be greatly appreciated :)) but I'm wondering if I should I raise the class levels to make the DC's of what I have higher, or just add more kill-attacks. And if I do add more kill-attacks, what other classes would grant it?
irzg9zh3psgq3m09 03-19-06, 01:21 PM	I could get rid of the warmage and spellsword classes and instead use a bow with a quiver of Greater Slaying arrows DC 23 Fort, though that would be very expensive to keep.
Ivarrius 03-19-06, 01:24 PM	There are a lot of builds on the board that do massive damage in one hit. Some in the thousands. You should take a look through the optimization library link at the top of the forums.
irzg9zh3psgq3m09 03-19-06, 01:28 PM	I know, but I'm not worried about massive damage right now though. I just want a guy who will make his enemies make, like, 6 saves or die, even if he deals only 10 damage. (Well, actually, he'd have to deal at least 50 to do one of the save-or-die rolls, but whatever. Point is, I'm not trying to deal thousands of points of damage.)
Ivarrius 03-19-06, 01:43 PM	Still, there are a few melee builds out there that can do that. Frenzied berserker combos, leap attack feats, lots of options, all in the Library. You might find a few people unwilling to help out, as these questions get asked a lot. If I wasn't at work, I would try to put a few together for you, but I am unable at the moment.
PhoenixInferno 03-19-06, 02:10 PM	While you're at it, you might as well look at getting Wounding and Marrowcrushing (Book of Vile Darkness) weapons.
Nifft 03-19-06, 02:41 PM	Let's not forget the most excellent yet mundane Fort stab-n-save out there: Poison. 1 level of Assassin or Blackguard will get you Poison Use (Ex) to ensure you are making fewer saves than your foes. ;) -- N
Psifon 03-19-06, 03:51 PM	You also want to add things to the attack that drop their saving throws, like wounding and poison. Anything that does stat damage focused on the stats that they need to save with.
Senevri 03-19-06, 04:56 PM	Eh. item crafting gives Phantasmal Killer on hit. Expensive, though... Actually, one of my players is going for "One shot, one kill" type of character, through Fighter/Ranger/Orderofthebowinitiative/Deepwood Sniper. Beneficial effect being mainly the 5x critical accessible through DWS. With +5, that'll eventually be... well, ideally, with +5 mighty and +5 arrows, a flat 50 damage, + 5d8. 'course, the crit range will be something like 18-20, only... (imp. crit, and keen arrows. I'm allowing keen+imp.crit to stack...) ... On the other hand, after a bullette dealt 56 points of damage to the group's barbarian, we ruled that that we won't be using massive critical rules, so it doesn't affect us... Sorry 'bout being a bit off-topic.
irzg9zh3psgq3m09 03-19-06, 07:11 PM	Thanks for your replies. Yeah, poison sounds nice. If I add some black lotus extract on my weapons, it'll do 3d6 Con damage, which would really lower the target's AC. Can a target be poisoned twice? Meaning, if I poison both the assassin's dagger and nine lives stealer, hit with both, and the target fails both saving throws, would the second poison be effective or no? If so, damn... 6d6 Con damage, on top of all the save-or-die rolls he'll have to make.
Tweedledope 03-19-06, 07:22 PM	There's a feat in the Savage Species guide (Virulent Poison IIRC) that allows a creature's poisons secondary damage do double damage which is 12d6 Con for Black Lotus...however, I think it can only be applied to natural poison (such as that from a medusa's snakes). -=TD=-
Nifft 03-20-06, 09:18 PM	I'd go for two Wounding short swords instead of one Nine Life Stealer. Sure, it's one less save, but remember that the NLS only works nine times before you need to buy a new one. Wounding works all the time, and makes Fort saves harder every time you hit! Cheers, -- N
irzg9zh3psgq3m09 03-21-06, 06:23 PM	Yes, wounding is very useful. I figured the best thing I should use is a large wounding Assassin's Dagger so I would deal -1 Con and have +1 DC on the Death Attack. I'm using large since you can't power attack with a light weapon, and I need power attack + leap attack to be able to deal at least 50+ damage. Can't fight with two weapons though, since I need to hold the large dagger with two hands to get the 1 for 2 PA.
Rashomon 03-21-06, 07:04 PM	Fighter 1 / Sorcerer 6 / Spellsword 5 / Sacred Exorcist 2 / Eldritch Knight or Knight Phantom 6 Three times a day, this guy can hit an opponent and channel a prismatic wall into him, forcing him to make 7 saves a round or take 140 damage, die, be turned to stone, driven insane, and sent to another plane. This lasts for 10 minutes per caster level. For everything else, he can become a cave troll and hit people with a full attack Shock Trooper Power Attack.
irzg9zh3psgq3m09 03-21-06, 09:01 PM	Wow, I didn't know you could channel a prismatic wall. My build isn't excatly what you have, but your prismatic wall idea helped me finalize the build I was working on. Warmage 8/ Fighter 1/ Spellsword 4/ Assassin 3/ Ghost-faced Killer 3/ Shadowdancer 1 1 WrMg (1) -- Improved Initiative (GFK req), Sudden Silent 2 WrMg (2) 3 WrMg (3) -- Dodge (SD req) 4 WrMg (4) 5 WrMg (5) 6 WrMg (6) -- Quicken Spell 7 WrMg (7) 8 WrMg (8) 9 Ftr (1) -- Mobility (SD req), Power Attack (GFK req) 10 SpSw (1) 11 SpSw (2) -- Combat Reflexes (SD req) 12 SpSw (3) -- Leap Attack 13 SpSw (4) 14 GFK (1) 15 SD (1) -- Practiced Spellcaster 16 Asn (1) 17 GFK (2) 18 GFK (3) -- Combat Expertise 19 Asn (2) 20 Asn (3) Abilities (32 point buy): Str 14, Dex 13, Con 11, Int 16+2, Wis 8, Cha 15+3 HD: 8d6 plus 1d10 plus 4d8 plus 3d6 plus 3d8 plus 1d8 (78 hp) Init: +5 Speed: 20 AC: 20 (+1 Dex, +9 modified Mithral Full Plate of Speed (+1 mithral shadow (greater) silent moves (greater) full plate)) Weapon: modified large Assassin’s Dagger (one-handed +5 skillful wounding dagger, 1d6+7/19-20) BAB 14 (raised to 15 with the weapon) Caster Level: 14 Combat: 1) Prepare death attack by studying the target for 3 rounds while hiding. 2) Quicken spell true strike, ghost step, activate haste, PA for 7 and leap attack: +34 (1d6+51/19-20) 3) Poisoned weapon (black lotus extract): DC 20 Fort or -3d6 Con 4) Wounding weapon: -1 Con 5) Massive Damage: DC 15 Fort or die 6) Death attack: DC 18 Fort or die 7) Frightful attack: DC 17 Will or die 8) Channel spell (phantasmal killer): DC 18 Will or believe in phantasm, then DC 18 Fort or die Or 8) Channel spell (prismatic ray): creatures with < 7 HD are blinded for 2d4 rounds, DC 19 Ref (half) or 20+4 fire, 40+4 acid, 80+4 electricity (roll for each), DC 19 Fort (partial; -1d6 Con) or die, DC 19 Fort or petrify, and DC 19 Will or insanity Question though: why did you have 2 levels of sacred exorcist?
Rashomon 03-21-06, 10:24 PM	Ray only nails them with 1, maybe 2 color effects, and it's instantaneous. Wall does ALL the listed effects to anyone crossing it, and CHannel Spell changes the area of effect to "one creature" rather than "static wall". So the wall occupies his space, which mean he is technically crossing it. All the time. Sacred Exorcist is there for Turn Undead, which powers Divine Might and some other Divine feats. Good when you have a high-Charisma sorcerer gish.
irzg9zh3psgq3m09 03-22-06, 10:47 PM	Oh, whoops, didn't read the prismatic ray carefully and thought all the effects happened. I was wondering why a 5th level spell was so good. Wait, I don't think you can cast prismatic wall into a creature. It says: "A prismatic wall spell cast to materialize in a space occupied by a creature is disrupted, and the spell is wasted." Channeling a spell is sort of like casting it onto the creature, so it would be wasted. (Maybe a nice DM would allow it.) However, if there's any way to be able to cast prismatic sphere though, that might work. It'll surround the target and render him immobile, unless he wants to risk the color effects.