Post/Author/DateTime	Post
stinkygoblin 08-13-04, 11:18 PM	I am bout to start playing in a new forgotten realms campaign. The other characters are: a pixie thief and a paladin. From the title of this thread I guess it is obvious what I want to play. Just for the slow among us, I will be playing a gish. At least I am 60% sure I want to play a gish, but at last to my first question should I play a druid instead? I want to have both frontline capabilities and spells. Is a druid or a gish better here. My second question is which of these gish should I play. First gish Wizard5/Eldtrich Knight4/Dragonslayer1 BaB: +7/+2 Saves:Fort: +7Ref:+2 Will:+7 Required feats:Miltia, Iron Will, Dodge caster level is one behind Second gish Wizard5/Raumathari Battlemage4/DragonSlayer1 BaB: +6 Saves:Fort:+4 Ref:+2 Will:+9Required feats:Miltia, Combat Casting, Dodge, Iron Will, EWP:Bastard Sword Full spell progression, gets battlemage goodies So what do all think I should do
balefire42 08-13-04, 11:35 PM	With a druid you can tank, cast spells, and heal by summoning unicorns with SNA IV. With a gish you can tank and cast spells. I'd go with the druid as while the other party members can heal with wands, it's nice to have access to some healing a little more powerful than d8+1.
Spellbinded 08-13-04, 11:51 PM	Or you can use the Arcane Disciple feat and heal with an arcane caster anyway, so long as you've got the right sort of deity. Hehe.
MoogleEmpMog 08-14-04, 02:16 AM	A druid is more powerful. BUT, I personally like the arcane gish better, especially with the Militia feat, and either of the two you outlined are nice builds. Of the two builds, I like the first one better, largely because it doesn't burn a feat on Combat Casting (or EWP: Bastard Sword, for that matter). Whether a feat, +3 Fort save and +1 BAB matter more to you than full caster progression depends on how long you want to play the character and what path you want to take him down later. I would go with the first one and throw in a Spellsword level at the first opportunity.
Gene Starwind 08-14-04, 03:24 AM	I am Playing the Same Build Wizard 5 Eldritch Knight 4 Dragon Slayer 1 Then Spell Sword 5 Then the rest Eldritch Knight again. You end up with 17 caster lvls and with the practiced caster feat its an effective 20 caster levels and don't forget the 16 BAB at the end as will for four attacks. Take the feat Arcane Disple and get the Mystism domain (complete Divine) or Healing Domain. Mystism gives you Divine Favour and righteous might so its good for buffs. Practiced Caster gives you 4 effective caster levels but not past your HD. It is still good for uping duration and effectiveness of spells. Arcane Strike (complete Warrior) works wonders +1 to hit and +1d4 Damage per level of spell sacrificed for the rest of the round. Also Power attack works so well with a quickened true strike and Arcane strike so consider that as well. The only other feats that you should consider taking are extend spell for your buffs and maybe improved familar from complete warrior and get a hippogriff.
Sisyfos 08-14-04, 06:05 AM	Wizard5/Eldtrich Knight4/Dragonslayer1 Wizard5/Raumathari Battlemage4/DragonSlayer1 Take that 6th level of wizard if you are going for melee arcane caster.
nikademus 08-14-04, 06:41 AM	Hello, I would go with if you start at Level 10 : Human follower of Lurue (chaotic good) Wizard 1-6 Eldritch Knight 1-2 Dragonslayer 1 Spellsword 1 Feats 01) Militia 01) Dodge 03) Arcane Disiciple (Healing Domain) 05) MF : Extend spell 07) FF : Mobility 06) Iron will 09) Spring attack You end up with Bab 7 and Saves 1/1/5 3/0/0 2/0/2 2/0/2 0/0/2 -------- 8/1/11 On the othe Side Druids can be very effective also : Human follower of Milikki Druid 10 Feats 01) Spell Focus Conjuration 01) Education 03) Augment summoning 06) Natural spell 09) Exalted Wildshape Follow with 1 Level of Contemplative (Travel or Mysticism Domain) and you are a good summoner. Nikademus
Sisyfos 08-14-04, 06:58 AM	I really really do not understand why you all want to take the dragonslayer PrC even when you are not using it to qualify for EK? Additionally you are taking two very subpar feats (iron will and dodge) to qualify for that PrC.
Canoy 08-14-04, 07:54 AM	...When you just could sacrifice that casterlevel with Fighter1 and at the same time net a bonusfeat.
TheMasterSword 08-14-04, 10:38 AM	I would just go Wizard 5 / Eldritch Knight 10 / Spellsword 5. Of course you would have to use a feat on Militia to qualify for Eldritch Knight, and you could mix up the Eldritch Knight and Spellsword progression as much as you want after a certain point. You get an attack bonus of 2 from the Wizard, 10 from the Eldritch Knight, and 5 from the Spellsword, for a total of 17. You get a caster level of 5 from the Wizard, 9 from the Eldritch Knight, and 2 from the Spellsword, for a total of 16.
RabidWeasel 08-14-04, 11:01 AM	Lesser Aasimar Sorcerer 6/EK 2/Witch Hunter 2/Spellsword 1/Sacred Exorcist 4/EK 7 Feats: 1. Otherworldly 3. Practiced Spellcaster 6. Track 7. Bonus: Power attack 9. Arcane Strike 12. Divine Might 15. Open 18. Open +16 BAB, CL 20, 18th level spell selection, arcane strike and divine might, +cha to saves, some ASF ignoring, native outsider type + other aasimar goodies This build uses the "all outsiders have martial weapon proficiency" trick.
Sisyfos 08-14-04, 11:04 AM	Originally posted by Canoy ...When you just could sacrifice that casterlevel with Fighter1 and at the same time net a bonusfeat. Actually that would save 4 feats: 1 No need for militia 2 No need for dodge 3 No need for iron will 4 You gain a bonus fighter feat But even if caster level trumps all (then why those spellsword levels in many builds) there still wouldn't be need for that feat taking dragonslayer level as BAB 16 is well reachable without it (for example wiz6/EK10/SE4).
handforged 08-14-04, 12:06 PM	stinky goblin, to answer your first question, I would use the first build with a slight modification. Wiz 6/EK 3/DragonSlayer 1 Level six wiz gives a bonus to BAB, CL, and all saves, whereas level 4 EK only gives BAB, CL and Fort. Dragonslayer 1 gives +1 BAB, +1 CL, +2 Fort, +2 Will, d10, and aura of courage, which makes it a decent payoff for two feats, which are not horrible. ~hf
Skrimshaw 08-14-04, 02:01 PM	Originally posted by TheMasterSword I would just go Wizard 5 / Eldritch Knight 10 / Spellsword 5. Of course you would have to use a feat on Militia to qualify for Eldritch Knight, how are you meeting the armor requirments for Spellsword?
Naramyth 08-14-04, 02:56 PM	Can you use the Battle Sorcerer from UA? Cause if you can suggest a... BattleSorcerer8/Witch Hunter2/Dragon Slayer1/Spell Sword1/Sarced Exorsist8 Feats are tight but you get charisma as your main casting attribute, and to saves, and to attack and damage with Divine Might(which you qualify for), immune to fear, and can wear mitheral twilight fullplate with a BAB 16 and a CL 19...woot. EDIT- If you can't use this the Wiz6/EK10/XXX4 is alright. You can gain 19th level casting but, without special abilities it will be sub par. which sucks.:(
grey muse 08-14-04, 03:03 PM	OK, I've got to be missing something glaringly obvious here. How are you qualifying for EK with straight Wiz levels? Where is martial weapon proficiency coming from? I've seen this in two threads in a row, now, and I'm baffled. grey muse
ShadowCrown 08-14-04, 03:28 PM	There's a regional feat in I think PGtF called 'militia' which grants martial proficiency. That's how you qualify for EK with straight wiz. Doesn't work for SS, because that requires armor prof, which militia doesn't grant.
stinkygoblin 08-14-04, 04:01 PM	I will def go wiz 6 instead of 5. I will take at least 1 level of spellsword. Why not combine Sacred Ex with wizard levels? I am not interested in battle Sorcerer really. Although I will think more about it.
Naramyth 08-14-04, 04:17 PM	Originally posted by stinkygoblin I will def go wiz 6 instead of 5. I will take at least 1 level of spellsword. Why not combine Sacred Ex with wizard levels? I am not interested in battle Sorcerer really. Although I will think more about it. Well, because of stat MAD really, charisma to everything with sorcerer casting is what makes the build shine. If your not interested in using the battle sorcerer the normal one works just as well, you just have to juggle your classes abit more. But I'm going to pick up Races of Stone, later!
roll8dn 08-14-04, 05:29 PM	Sun Elf Fighter 2/Swashbuckler3/Wizard5/Bladesinger10 Sws 1: Combat Casting, Weapon Finesse Sws 1/Ftr 1: Dodge Sws 2/Ftr 1: Weapon Focus (rapier) Sws 2/Ftr 2: Combat Expertise Sws 3/Ftr 2: Insightful Strike Sws 3/Ftr 2/ Wiz 1: Arcane Strike Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/Bld 1: Bladesong Style Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/Bld 2: Lesser Spellsong Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/Bld 3: Practised Spellcaster Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/Bld 4: Song of Celerity (2nd) Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/Bld 6: Greater Spellsong, Defensive Strike Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/Bld 8: Song of Celerity (4th) Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/Bld 9: Improved Combat Expertise Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/Bld 10: Song of Fury Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 3/Bld 10: Power Critical Put your highest scores into Intelligence and Dex. You end up with +19 BAB, an effective caster level of 14, access to 5th level spells, the ability to do an extra 5d4 damage on a hit, INT to both AC and damage rolls, Dex to both AC and to-hit rolls, a +4 to confirm criticals, and decent saves all around. Assuming a 32 point buy, you want Str 10, Dex 18, Con 10, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 8. Putting your cash into stat-boosting items (including a book+4 and a book+5), you can end up (with an ordinary rapier) with a to-hit modifier of +30, damage of 1d6+10, and a touch AC of 31. That's before armor and defelection. Not a bad defensive fighter. With Improved Combat Expertise, you can get a touch AC of +50. Just a thought.
RabidWeasel 08-14-04, 06:49 PM	Nice BS build, although I would really recommend 2 less wis and 2 more con, and if you're using UA, elf paragon is a nice choice (+2 int, free weapon focus).
grey muse 08-14-04, 07:31 PM	Militia now grants martial weapon proficiency in all weapons? That's a hefty boost from its 3.0 incarnation. Thanks for the low-down. grey muse
newblar32 08-14-04, 07:52 PM	First gish Wizard5/Eldtrich Knight4/Dragonslayer1 BaB: +7/+2 Saves:Fort: +7Ref:+2 Will:+7 Required feats:Miltia, Iron Will, Dodge caster level is one behind IIRC dragonslayer grants you the proficiencies requires for eldritch knight, there's no need to waste a feat on militia.
Lackadaisical 08-14-04, 08:12 PM	But you need Eldritch Knight to qualify for Dragonslayer as Dragonslayer has +5 BAB for a requirement.
roll8dn 08-14-04, 09:47 PM	Originally posted by RabidWeasel Nice BS build, although I would really recommend 2 less wis and 2 more con, and if you're using UA, elf paragon is a nice choice (+2 int, free weapon focus). As far as the Paragon class goes, it would probably be a good idea, considering that you get 5th level spells anyway from it. Replacing the 3 Wizard levels with it would be a good idea. I was wrong about the BAB, by the way -it would be +17, not +19. Woth your build it would be a +18, with a better Hit Die and a couple cool abilities. Thanks for the idea. Edit: Stupidity on my part for not reading the above post carefully enough. Sorry for being blockheaded.
stinkygoblin 08-15-04, 12:22 AM	First let me say, this why I love this board. The bladesinger looks cool, but it is not what I am really looking for in this build. Thanks especially to :bow: nickademus, becuase I am going to use the build you posted. One other question about the attribute placement. Does this look good? 32 point buy: Str:12 Dex:14 Con:14 Int:18 16base +2 from levels Wis 14 Cha 8 I have another question about the paladin in my party. I am looking at paladin4/fighter2/pious templar4. The character would follow kossuth for spiked chain or Torm for greatsword. If I decide kossuth then the fighter will be the exoticist variant from dragon. What do you all think? Feats are: 1: Monkey Grip :D Fb: Weapon focus:deity's weapon Hb: True Believer Fb2: Power Attack 3: ? 6: Divine Might 9: Extra Turning
Sisyfos 08-15-04, 07:52 AM	Originally posted by stinkygoblin Str:12 Dex:14 Con:14 Int:18 16base +2 from levels Wis 14 Cha 8 Str:12 Dex:14 Con:16 Int:18 16base +2 from levels Wis 10 Cha 8
Aramil Liadon 08-15-04, 11:20 AM	Originally posted by roll8dn Sun Elf Fighter 2/Swashbuckler3/Wizard5/Bladesinger10 Sws 1: Combat Casting, Weapon Finesse Sws 1/Ftr 1: Dodge Sws 2/Ftr 1: Weapon Focus (rapier) Sws 2/Ftr 2: Combat Expertise Sws 3/Ftr 2: Insightful Strike Sws 3/Ftr 2/ Wiz 1: Arcane Strike Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/Bld 1: Bladesong Style Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/Bld 2: Lesser Spellsong Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/Bld 3: Practised Spellcaster Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/Bld 4: Song of Celerity (2nd) Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/Bld 6: Greater Spellsong, Defensive Strike Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/Bld 8: Song of Celerity (4th) Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/Bld 9: Improved Combat Expertise Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 1/Bld 10: Song of Fury Sws 3/Ftr 2/Wiz 3/Bld 10: Power Critical Put your highest scores into Intelligence and Dex. You end up with +19 BAB, an effective caster level of 14, access to 5th level spells, the ability to do an extra 5d4 damage on a hit, INT to both AC and damage rolls, Dex to both AC and to-hit rolls, a +4 to confirm criticals, and decent saves all around. Assuming a 32 point buy, you want Str 10, Dex 18, Con 10, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 8. Putting your cash into stat-boosting items (including a book+4 and a book+5), you can end up (with an ordinary rapier) with a to-hit modifier of +30, damage of 1d6+10, and a touch AC of 31. That's before armor and defelection. Not a bad defensive fighter. With Improved Combat Expertise, you can get a touch AC of +50. Just a thought. How do you qualify fpr arcane strike? Does everybody overlook the requierement with 3rd-Level-Spells or do I have another book??? Aramil