Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants 11-22-06, 09:22 PM	This is my first post over on these boards, so I don't really know if there is any way things are usually done and/or what concepts have been beaten to death. I've got a couple concepts that I need help with, one for a campaign that has already started and a few for a campaign that will be starting soon. First the current campaign. I need help with a mystic theurge type character. I know that Mystic theurge is somewhat underpowered, but I've already started the character so I can't change him too much. Right now I'm Wiz1/Clr1 (using the cloistered cleric varient from Unearthed Arcana and the Divine counterspell from complete mage). My 2 feats are Practiced spellcaster for both classes. I am currently the only spellcaster in the party, so I was trying to fulfill both the healer and arcane roles. I've got access to almost everything WotC 3.5, except the heroes books, lords of madness, magic of incarnum, tome of magic, tome of battle, the planar handbook, paionics, and anything eberron. Its a homebrew world so I should probably limit FR, but I have the books. For the upcoming campaign I am tossing around 4 ideas. Stats to play around with are 18, 16, 15, 15, 14, 12. I can use the PHB, PHBII, and all completes. 1) Dwarven Cleric - "noble" - born to clan chief and must go prove himself in a quest before he can be an adult. 2) Half-Orc Druid - "outcast" - born to Orc warlord and abused. Finally ran away. 3) Elven Sorcerer - "pyromancer" - raised an elf until he accidently lashed out and burned someone. Decided it was best to just leave. 4) Human Rogue - "street rat" - raised on the streets until he stabbed his drunkard father and ran. I am attached to the concept more than the specific classes, those are just working decisions. Any and all help, direction, or assistance would be greatly appreciated, even if it is just a link to another thread.
GaffeR 11-22-06, 09:40 PM	Unfortunately there's not a whole lot you can do with the Mystic Theurge, unless you can completely drop the wizard side and shoot for Dweomerkeeper (CDivine Web enhancement). That's always nice. Oh, maybe retrain (via the rules in PHB2)? I'm not too familiar with the whole thing, so... *shrug* http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=482636 That link should get you pretty far in this board. A lot of stuff you'd want is in there. For the Cleric, Divine Metamagic (Persistent) is you friend. Try to use a Gold Dwarf if possible (no cha penalty). Radiant Servant of Pelor is my favorite PrC, coupled with the PHB2 domain spontenaity (sp) variant on the Healing domain. For the Druid, check out the racial sub levels in Races of Destiny. There's one that acts like Augment Summoning, but stacks with AS. Take both, Natural spell, and whatever else you like (Dragon wildshape, exalted wildshape, rashemi elemental summoning are my favs). For the Sorcerer... well I'd probably make him a Wizard. It's personal preference, and the 1st level elf wizard sub level in Races of the Wild is fantastic. If not, Mage of the Arcane order for as many levels as you want spells is nice. Maybe pair that with Incantatrix or Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil. The Rogue.. well, I usually just do a simple Weapon Finesse TWFer. Staggering Strike (CAdv IIRC) is fantastic for not getting pummeled when you full attack something.
PhoenixInferno 11-22-06, 09:44 PM	Your Druid ought to be a capable divine spellcaster...
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants 11-22-06, 11:17 PM	For the Druid, check out the racial sub levels in Races of Destiny. There's one that acts like Augment Summoning, but stacks with AS. Take both, Natural spell, and whatever else you like (Dragon wildshape, exalted wildshape, rashemi elemental summoning are my favs). For the Sorcerer... well I'd probably make him a Wizard. It's personal preference, and the 1st level elf wizard sub level in Races of the Wild is fantastic. If not, Mage of the Arcane order for as many levels as you want spells is nice. Maybe pair that with Incantatrix or Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil. The problem with racial sub levels and also anything outside the 7 books I mentioned is that the DM is new and is trying to limit what we have access to. I was kind of assuming natural spell on the druid.
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants 11-22-06, 11:20 PM	Your Druid ought to be a capable divine spellcaster... I'm not sure what you are referring to with this. I thank you for your comment but :confused:
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants 11-23-06, 03:18 PM	For the upcoming campaign I am tossing around 4 ideas. Stats to play around with are 18, 16, 15, 15, 14, 12. I can use the PHB, PHBII, and all completes. 1) Dwarven Cleric - "noble" - born to clan chief and must go prove himself in a quest before he can be an adult. 2) Half-Orc Druid - "outcast" - born to Orc warlord and abused. Finally ran away. 3) Elven Sorcerer - "pyromancer" - raised an elf until he accidently lashed out and burned someone. Decided it was best to just leave. 4) Human Rogue - "street rat" - raised on the streets until he stabbed his drunkard father and ran. I am attached to the concept more than the specific classes, those are just working decisions. Any and all help, direction, or assistance would be greatly appreciated, even if it is just a link to another thread. For these characters they are starting at 2nd level. 1) Dwarf - melee preferrably, but eh... 2) Half-orc - I was thinking about going for a shapeshifting build. 3) Elf - I was just thinking of lots and lots of fire spells. Maybe in to elemental savant eventually. 4) Rogue - Catburglar, pickpocket, all around thief. Taking lots of skills, really not sure what feats to go for.
Endarire 11-23-06, 04:05 PM	You can still go dweomerkeeper with a minimal amount of fuss. <shrug> -EE
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants 11-23-06, 11:20 PM	So looking at dweomerkeeper, I'm really not sure whats so great about it. I would kind of like to be able to supply the party with both healing and arcane spells, so I'd like to keep both caster levels up.
Tweedledope 11-23-06, 11:23 PM	So looking at dweomerkeeper, I'm really not sure whats so great about it. I would kind of like to be able to supply the party with both healing and arcane spells, so I'd like to keep both caster levels up. Oh, I don't know...Miracle...supernatural ability...no XP...pissin' off gods. That's why we love it. -=TD=-
Think0028 11-23-06, 11:25 PM	So looking at dweomerkeeper, I'm really not sure whats so great about it. I would kind of like to be able to supply the party with both healing and arcane spells, so I'd like to keep both caster levels up. The OMG AWEZOME part about it is generally the Supernatural Spell ability. No XP, GP, or focus needed for a spell a few times per day at 2nd level. Free wishes, gates, miracles, true creations, etc.
GaffeR 11-23-06, 11:26 PM	*Shakes head* Uh.. what? Supernatural Spell: Spell = Supernatural ability. No components. Free Miracles! Obviously you've never seen The Cheater of Mystra. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=248239) Edit: Curse you thread ninjas!
neceros 11-23-06, 11:29 PM	For these characters they are starting at 2nd level. 3) Elf - I was just thinking of lots and lots of fire spells. Maybe in to elemental savant eventually. You could always just go with the pyromancer class. It's originally from Expanded Psionics, but it was reprinted in Mind's Eye. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e Note that it is Psychic naturally, but it should be fairly easy to make it into an Arcane Pristige without hassle. Even if not, just take Wild Talent feat and you're good to go.
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants 11-25-06, 05:36 PM	So it looks like the only CO suggestion for the "mystic theurge" is to go dweomerkeeper and take miracle as a supernatural ability. You could always just go with the pyromancer class. It's originally from Expanded Psionics, but it was reprinted in Mind's Eye. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e Note that it is Psychic naturally, but it should be fairly easy to make it into an Arcane Pristige without hassle. Even if not, just take Wild Talent feat and you're good to go. Except psionics are not allowed in any form. And I don't really want to be trying to force things on the DM outside of what he is comfortable with. Really I don't want anything completely broken cheesy, I just want something somewhat strong. I have a habit of trying to optimize but instead taking things like monkey grip or such.
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer 11-25-06, 07:12 PM	Hmm. Perhaps if you could get an Unearthed Arcana Variant for your Wizard, you could get the Variant which makes your undead Stronger, and proceed with the rest of your levels as a cleric.
ed209 11-26-06, 12:17 AM	*** SNIP *** First the current campaign. I need help with a mystic theurge type character. I know that Mystic theurge is somewhat underpowered, but I've already started the character so I can't change him too much. Right now I'm Wiz1/Clr1 (using the cloistered cleric varient from Unearthed Arcana and the Divine counterspell from complete mage). My 2 feats are Practiced spellcaster for both classes. I am currently the only spellcaster in the party, so I was trying to fulfill both the healer and arcane roles. I've got access to almost everything WotC 3.5, except the heroes books, lords of madness, magic of incarnum, tome of magic, tome of battle, the planar handbook, paionics, and anything eberron. Its a homebrew world so I should probably limit FR, but I have the books. *** SNIP *** ... Please tell me you have access to Dragon Magazine. (specifically #325) This screams using the Alternative Source Spell feat...
Hanniball 11-26-06, 12:55 AM	So it looks like the only CO suggestion for the "mystic theurge" is to go dweomerkeeper and take miracle as a supernatural ability. While probably one of the more powerful suggestions, it's not the only one. I'd suggest choosing either arcane or divine to develop fully while utilizing the other as support. At 3rd level (wiz 2/clr 1 or wiz 1/clr 2) if you take Sanctum Spell (CA) you'll qualify for Mystic Theurge. Jumping into MT that early makes it much easier on dual-casters. Once you get to 13th level it's really time to decide which types of magic have been most useful in the campaign. Hopefully it's the class you took two levels before MT. Then take a Prc that advances that particular type of magic. You'll end up with 9th level spells of one type and 6th level spells of the other. Not the most optimal, but very easy and quite potent. Either way...just my 2 cp