Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tommy_the_cat 07-24-05, 04:23 PM	Crafting one of my first rogues, and I have a few questions: - I'm planning to go rogue 20 - but any suggestions for good PrCs that maintain full SA and still get full BaB would help. - What's the best way to get sneak attack damage all the time? I'd say flanking, but then what is the best way to do that all the time? Bag of tricks? - How do you ensure that you connect? With TWF and only average BaB, the attack rolls are looking kind of low. Is there any way to make touch attacks? I think there was a weapon enhancement out there called piercing - I forget where it's from but I think it has something to do with touch attacks? - Access to grave strike / vine strike / golem strike is a must – wands are good, but they take a round to activate. I was thinking use activated (1st level spell x 1st level caster x 2,000gp x 4 [duration in rounds] = 8,000 gp) Does anyone know where the rules lay for making items that do multiple things? (i.e. One item for use activated grave strike, vine strike, and golem strike.) -Good feats for a straight-up sneak attacking rouge?
Cloud Clone 07-24-05, 04:54 PM	For what you're doing, it sounds like you'll be working alone alot, or trying not to depend too much on the assistance of your party members. So with that in mind, I'd recommend multiclassing as a rogue/cleric (luck/trickery domain?) and then try to PrC into Assassin ASAP for the ability to use poisoned weapons for ability damage (which PWNs much more than you would think at first). With the trickery domain you'll have the option to reroll any die once per day, which is helpful if you have something in which success is crucial. You'll also be able to use better armor* and shields** (If you don't mind taking penalties for, though you can make up for that with all those skill points you'll get from being a rogue). Also, Cleric spells give you enhancement spells to aid your to-hit rolls, and even Summoned Monsters so you can flank on your own power. As for feats, getting quickdraw is a must; you can get off an initial sneak attack shot with a crossbow from a distance, then enter melee after drawing a rapier (high crit-range) and maybe even a shortsword, if you're willing to spring for the TWF feat. *Hopefully you can eventually get some masterwork and/or mithril fullplate, or even mithril medium armor if you want to be able to sleep in it. **Remember that a masterwork buckler has no penalties. ;) P.S. You might want to get some Boots of Striding and Springing to help you offset and armor penalties (the give a +4 to jump and climb), and it gives you a +10 landspeed, so you can move your normal distance even with heavy armor.
Borin 07-24-05, 05:18 PM	Touch attacks: in Complete Adventurer is a spell, I thought it was assassin2 and wiz2, that is cast as a swift action and makes all attacks touch attacks. Sneak attacks: buy a Ring of Blinking (27k, DMG). It makes you miss 20% of your attacks, but makes enemies miss 50% of their attacks on you, and you attack them as if they were invisible (+2 attack and they lose their dex bonus). A rogue needs some defense like this if he wants to make full attacks (which means the enemy can make full attacks on you).
tommy_the_cat 07-24-05, 05:25 PM	Is wand activation ever less than a standard action? Like if the spell's acutal casting time is a swift aciton? Because quickdraw + wand of wraithstrike would be very useful.
Borin 07-24-05, 05:30 PM	Ah, wraithstrike, that was the one :) I think activating a wand is always at least a standard action. But you could also do arcane trickster and polymorph into something with lots of attacks and high strength like a cavetroll (2 claws, bite, 2 rakes, rend/pounce etc) and just cast wraithstrike when you pounce.
Wellby the Fountain 07-24-05, 05:38 PM	blinking is good... so is feinting as a fee action via invisible blade, lotsa bluff required
tommy_the_cat 07-24-05, 05:39 PM	plus, you can't bluff everything.
Wellby the Fountain 07-24-05, 05:44 PM	you arent actually bluffing, youre feinting.... but yes, not everything can be bluffed, but the things you will be sneak attacking genereally can be feinted.... just save yourself the trouble and buy a ring of blinking.
The Wild Rover 07-25-05, 01:03 PM	also the added bonus of having the invisble blade have full sa and BAB progression, which i believe you mentioned earlier, it's one of if not the only prestige class that does both of those (i know nightsong enforcer gives full BAB but i don't recall it doing so with SA as well) if you actually come up with any builds please post them because i actually made a topic similar to this but not a single person responded to it and i'm very interested in the subject
jameswilliamogle 07-25-05, 01:32 PM	how about going into the arcane trickster prc after going rogue / wizard? it's core, it's simple, and you'll increase as fast as the rogue's bab and sa while in it, plus it'll give you some neat combat tricks (some of the spells from complete adventurer: sniper shot, critical strike, wraithtouch; are low level and ridiculously effective for a rogue). i just joined a game and didn't have a very good plan, and was asked to play the rogue, which i did with the archery route in mind, but it started getting boring around 4th, so i started multiclassing into wizard w/ bunches of the complete adventurer swift spells and true strike as my main tools. it works, really well, and with a flaming s.bow and some phase spider venom that we got from some conquered phase spiders, i was able to do about 68 dmg on a crit against a beholder recently. and i'm more lethal than the fighters when i get the npc wizard to cast greater invisibility (doing an average ~40 dmg / round w/ rapid strike, no poison). my next goal is to get 2 more levels of wizard before becoming an arcane trickster, thus at 10th going into the prc. i considered the invisible blade, and have every feat but wpn focus:dagger, but for my theme so far i didn't want to go that route, and after looking up the blink ring i definitely won't want to. i guess i'll lose 2d6 sa, and won't get imp. evasion or the rogue's special abilities, but it's worth it to get up to 7th level spells, i think :) about the blink ring: is there any feat or spell that would allow me to ignore the 20% miss chance of my own attacks?
UMiskatonic 07-25-05, 01:42 PM	Sneak attacking, see, doesn't always work. I know that you can become an Invisible blade to feint in combat, and you can do all this other stuff to flank, or go first, or get a bag of tricks. It still won't work all the time. Accept that. Rogues are not fighters. A fighter-type of the same level will out fight you. That's not to say that you can't still be effective. Here are some tips. 1) Be mobile. If you need to fight the bad guys and rescue the princess, the rogue's job is to get to the princess, unlock her chains, and get her to safety. The fighter's job is to hold off the guards. 2) Take the opportunities. Get in there and flank when you can, tumble past when you can, and be as useful as possible. Improved Initiative is good for this, as it generally gets you at least one free sneak attack a combat. Keep spot and listen high, so you don't miss your chances. 3) Know when to stop. If the troll's claw/claw/rend does enough damage to kill you dead in one round, you have an obligation to stay 15ft away from him at all times (reach plus 5ft step). Getting yourself clobbered because you are outmatched doesn't help anybody. 4) The opposite of sneak attack can be UMD. A wand of scorching ray can do great damage against undead and constructs, who are immune to sneak attacks.
kingpocky 07-25-05, 02:53 PM	Get a rope of entanglement. Very handy for eliminating dex. bonus
ninjarabbit 07-25-05, 03:06 PM	Reach weapons are a rogue's friend, they let you hit and keep you out of danger. Invest a feat in one (spiked chain is probably best since it can also hit adjacent foes), better yet have 2 rogues with reach weapons flank a foe and watch him cry.
AviLazar 07-25-05, 04:42 PM	Sneak attacks: buy a Ring of Blinking (27k, DMG). It makes you miss 20% of your attacks, but makes enemies miss 50% of their attacks on you, and you attack them as if they were invisible (+2 attack and they lose their dex bonus). A rogue needs some defense like this if he wants to make full attacks (which means the enemy can make full attacks on you). Screw that, at level 20, get a ring of greater blinking (complete arcane). 90k gold (5th level spell). You no longer suffer the 20% miss chance. You can ready an action to totally avoid a non-force spell. You can walk through walls with NO chance of damage unless you stop your walk in the wall. Overall, for the additional 63k, this is well worth it :) Though if your enemy can see invisible you only get a 20% miss chance when they try and hit you. Still, better then before.
jameswilliamogle 07-25-05, 05:16 PM	Reach weapons are a rogue's friend, they let you hit and keep you out of danger. Invest a feat in one (spiked chain is probably best since it can also hit adjacent foes), better yet have 2 rogues with reach weapons flank a foe and watch him cry. although there's no doubt that the spiked chain is wicked in some builds (and w/ wpn finnesse it'll really help the rogue), i personally like using a longspear with spiked (or normal) gauntlets for those close combat cases (no feat necessary), or going with ranged wpns (shortbow, but longbow if you are an elf), and using gauntlets for aoo (which rarely happen in my campaign, b/c of craftiness of DM). I'm playing a wizard/rogue and i've been able to set up some fun stuff w/ summon monster II: since you usually get at least two weaklings, you can put them in any square you want (w/in range), and it goes off at the begining of the turn after you start casting (full round casting time). i've had them flank my opponent for one round while i sneak attack from exactly 30', while they take piddling damage from my critters (including aoo's), but on more than one occasion have had them help my party members by flanking on the wrong side of the fight for a round, also giving me the SA damage as well. distract assailant is another good spell from C.A.