A different Halfling Paladin [Archive] - Wizards Community

A different Halfling Paladin [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rubicantbu
03-16-04, 10:49 AM Here's a build I'm looking for help on.

I was toying around with the idea of making a halfling paladin, but after finally picking up the Draconomicron, I decided, hey, how fun would it be to have my character's chosen deity be Bahamut? So I then looked at using the Dragon Disiciple PrC and pictured this:

A flying halfling who is smiting evil and breathing <insert breath weapon>. Cool, right?

So far I was thinking a build like: Pal4/Sorc1/DgD10/...?

I figure I can trade off the 5th pally level since I don't really need a mount, and deal with only having one smite. A level of sorc to get into the class, and DgD finished by level 15.

But I'm stuck as to where to go from here, and possibly what people would recommend for feat selection.

- Would it be worth it for me to go the Whirlwind Attack route, feat wise? Even passing on Power Attack to get Whirlwind faster, or would I be better off with sundering and defensive feats?

- As for those last 5 levels, would it be better taking them as fighter for feats, more sorceror levels, or maybe another prestige? I had been thinking Platinum Knight would mesh with the character idea better, and give some cool anti-evil dragon abilities.

Allowed books in our campaign: Core, Dracon, Manual of the Planes, FRCS

Any insight is welcome and appreciated. :)
Funny Slaughter
03-16-04, 10:55 AM in my opinion its much better to go with the half-dragon template and play a paladin then.

gs
Funny
Prism
03-16-04, 10:56 AM Here is a link to Neonsamurai's cool paladin DD

http://minmax.neonsamurai.de/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=38&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
HoshiAdam
03-16-04, 11:20 AM Have you pondered Dragonrider for the last 5 levels? Combined with Leadership and Dragon Cohort, you should be able to get a decent dragon to ride on, and at that level it will be pretty useful.

If you go into Epic, your cohort could start taking levels in Sacred Warder of Bahamut
Qaetar
03-16-04, 12:27 PM Dragon Disciple is well known as a poor manner by which you gain Half-Dragon traits. Consider a Ritual from Savage Species perhaps, to become Half-Dragon.

Being a disciple of Bahamut, you'd probably have a decent chance at it, especially if your DM's cool.

Also consider working with your DM to make a racial progression a la Savage Progressions' Aasimar and Drow, etc.

Another problem though:

Speed: A half-dragon that is Large or larger has wings and can fly at twice its base land speed (maximum 120 ft.) with average maneuverability. A half-dragon that is Medium or smaller does not have wings.

Halflings are Small and do not get wings.

So you'll still need a flying mount to fly.

I like the idea of Dragon Cohort as your mount.

(Qaetar)
HoshiAdam
03-16-04, 01:51 PM Originally posted by Qaetar
Speed: A half-dragon that is Large or larger has wings and can fly at twice its base land speed (maximum 120 ft.) with average maneuverability. A half-dragon that is Medium or smaller does not have wings.That is also one of the perks of Dragon Disciple - it doesn't matter what size the character is, they gain wings at 9th level.
HoshiAdam
03-16-04, 02:50 PM Are you using XP penalties? If so, you'll take a penalty, and there isn't a good way to avoid it. You could go Paladin2 /Cleric1 /Sorcerer2 and then into dragon disciple. I am assuming you were taking paladin to 4 to get turn undead.
Rubicantbu
03-16-04, 02:58 PM Originally posted by HoshiAdam
Are you using XP penalties? If so, you'll take a penalty, and there isn't a good way to avoid it. You could go Paladin2 /Cleric1 /Sorcerer2 and then into dragon disciple. I am assuming you were taking paladin to 4 to get turn undead.

Yeah I was going Pal4 then Sorc1 then DgD. Never thought of throwing cleric in there to avoid it like you said.

It's only 20%. Not really a big deal if I'm a few levels behind.
MarkusH
03-16-04, 03:37 PM You may also want to look at Vassal of Bahamut in BoED.
pawsplay
03-17-04, 01:52 PM I've decided there is absolutely nothing cooler you could do than Halfling Paladin 2/Cleric 2/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple 10/Knight of the Chalice 5. Diminished caster level is not even an issue, since, hey, Knight of the Chalice has its own spell list. Besides being cute as a button, this character has a nice strength score, good Charisma synergies, and against fiends, has some extra damage output (compensating for small size).

Fly-by attack is a good Feat, but talk to your DM about your Paladin code of conduct. For many Paladins, using fly-bys against an opponent who cannot also fly would be dishonorable. In that case, you're better off using your flight for basic transportation.

I'm voting for early acquisition of Whirlwind Attack. A reach weapon, natural claws, and Whirlwind Attack would be a strong combination.
Effling
03-17-04, 03:07 PM I'll start by saying that this is a really cool character concept. Two great feats for flying characters are Great Flyby Attack from Savage Species (move up to your fly speed, attack number of opponents equal to your Dex bonus) and Adroit Flyby Attack from Draconomicon, which is basically the same as Improved Flyby Attack, but instead of Dodge and Mobility, you only need Flyby Attack and Hover/Wingover (or whatever).

And beavis, what does "complete rules destroyed clown game" mean, anyway? I do see your point in that for a LotR-style, fairly low-magic campaign, this build doesn't work. But for a high-fantasy, high-magic campaign, I think it would be really cool, for a change, to have a paladin that's not just knight in shiny armor, or even a small knight in shiny armor.
Andreas0815
03-17-04, 03:57 PM So, where is a halfling Sorc/Pala/DD violating any DnD 3.5 rule?

And another thing i wanna tell you:

I have read your comments in many treads here, and none of it was helpfull or about rules or how to improve a given build. All i have read from you was what you dislike in specific builds and how some builds don´t stand up to the flavor of an "real" DnD game.

Please, go back to ENWorld! :sad:
HoshiAdam
03-17-04, 04:05 PM Though I didn't see it mentioned initially, the only problem I saw with the first build was the XP penalty. And since you are okay with it, that's cool. :)
HoshiAdam
03-17-04, 05:48 PM Originally posted by beavis123
Where is that in the core rules?

answer: No where

They appear in these unsactional bogus "supplement" books designed for you to spend your money on.
Paladin: 3.5PHB page 42
Cleric: 3.5PHB page 30
Sorcerer: 3.5PHB page 51
Dragon Disciple: 3.5 DMG page 183

Looks like the basic character concept is core. The last 5 levels might not be core, but they don't interfere with the character concept, just enhance it, in most of the posted build suggestions.
Quijin
03-17-04, 10:06 PM ok, i dont know why my post didnt go through, even though it showed that it did earlier, i will repost it. I apologize if it ends up being a double post.

[Edit: Yes, I removed it, just as I'm removing this. If you have a comment for a poster specifically, use PM's or emails. This thread is about Halfling Paladins--what does critiquing someone's post have to do with that? Use the report feature if you see posts you think offend the CoC and then continue as if the post wasn't there. No need to get it more off topic.]
HoshiAdam
03-17-04, 10:16 PM Actually, there has been some WizO intervention I think. Best to drop it entirely at this point.
WizO_Autumn
03-17-04, 10:18 PM I've gone through and cleaned this thread up-- removed a LOT of posts from a lot of people. It would've been much easier to do that if people hadn't responded to trolling posts and just let me get rid of them...

Anyway, in the removal, I got rid of a bunch of posts that people had "yelled" back at someone but then also included some good info. I apologize for that and hope the thread isn't doomed as a result. I hope you are able to repost your constructive comments.

Keep it all nice and clean, ok?
Quijin
03-17-04, 10:20 PM im sorry, i was not aware of this at the time when i made that repeat post. I have had problems with internet connection before so i presumed it happened again.

-Quijin:tiphat:
Rubicantbu
03-19-04, 11:12 AM Thanks for cleaning up the mess, Autumn :)

It looks like from every thing I've read I'm going to do one of these builds:

1) Pal4, Sor1, DgD10
2) Pal2, Clr2, Sor1, DgD10
3) Pal8, Sor1, DgD10 (level 2 Pally spells, but a long wait for my wings)

I think I would prefer to finish DgD by level 15. I'm also going to take the Silver Dragon type, since it seems demons and devils are most suspectible to that. Haven't seen many cold immunity ones besides the Chain Devil and the ice subtype ones.

I've decided there is absolutely nothing cooler you could do than Halfling Paladin 2/Cleric 2/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple 10/Knight of the Chalice 5.

What book is Knight of the Chalice in? I'm not sure it's in one of the ones we use. I assume I could put Divine Champion in there, or even Platinum Knight.

As for feats, I think I like the reach weapon and Whirlwind idea. Going to also look into the fly-by feats in the Draconomicron also.

Thanks for the help everyone!
HoshiAdam
03-19-04, 12:31 PM Knight of the Chalice is in Complete Warrior.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rubicantbu 03-16-04, 10:49 AM	Here's a build I'm looking for help on. I was toying around with the idea of making a halfling paladin, but after finally picking up the Draconomicron, I decided, hey, how fun would it be to have my character's chosen deity be Bahamut? So I then looked at using the Dragon Disiciple PrC and pictured this: A flying halfling who is smiting evil and breathing <insert breath weapon>. Cool, right? So far I was thinking a build like: Pal4/Sorc1/DgD10/...? I figure I can trade off the 5th pally level since I don't really need a mount, and deal with only having one smite. A level of sorc to get into the class, and DgD finished by level 15. But I'm stuck as to where to go from here, and possibly what people would recommend for feat selection. - Would it be worth it for me to go the Whirlwind Attack route, feat wise? Even passing on Power Attack to get Whirlwind faster, or would I be better off with sundering and defensive feats? - As for those last 5 levels, would it be better taking them as fighter for feats, more sorceror levels, or maybe another prestige? I had been thinking Platinum Knight would mesh with the character idea better, and give some cool anti-evil dragon abilities. Allowed books in our campaign: Core, Dracon, Manual of the Planes, FRCS Any insight is welcome and appreciated. :)
Funny Slaughter 03-16-04, 10:55 AM	in my opinion its much better to go with the half-dragon template and play a paladin then. gs Funny
Prism 03-16-04, 10:56 AM	Here is a link to Neonsamurai's cool paladin DD http://minmax.neonsamurai.de/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=38&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
HoshiAdam 03-16-04, 11:20 AM	Have you pondered Dragonrider for the last 5 levels? Combined with Leadership and Dragon Cohort, you should be able to get a decent dragon to ride on, and at that level it will be pretty useful. If you go into Epic, your cohort could start taking levels in Sacred Warder of Bahamut
Qaetar 03-16-04, 12:27 PM	Dragon Disciple is well known as a poor manner by which you gain Half-Dragon traits. Consider a Ritual from Savage Species perhaps, to become Half-Dragon. Being a disciple of Bahamut, you'd probably have a decent chance at it, especially if your DM's cool. Also consider working with your DM to make a racial progression a la Savage Progressions' Aasimar and Drow, etc. Another problem though: Speed: A half-dragon that is Large or larger has wings and can fly at twice its base land speed (maximum 120 ft.) with average maneuverability. A half-dragon that is Medium or smaller does not have wings. Halflings are Small and do not get wings. So you'll still need a flying mount to fly. I like the idea of Dragon Cohort as your mount. (Qaetar)
HoshiAdam 03-16-04, 01:51 PM	Originally posted by Qaetar Speed: A half-dragon that is Large or larger has wings and can fly at twice its base land speed (maximum 120 ft.) with average maneuverability. A half-dragon that is Medium or smaller does not have wings.That is also one of the perks of Dragon Disciple - it doesn't matter what size the character is, they gain wings at 9th level.
HoshiAdam 03-16-04, 02:50 PM	Are you using XP penalties? If so, you'll take a penalty, and there isn't a good way to avoid it. You could go Paladin2 /Cleric1 /Sorcerer2 and then into dragon disciple. I am assuming you were taking paladin to 4 to get turn undead.
Rubicantbu 03-16-04, 02:58 PM	Originally posted by HoshiAdam Are you using XP penalties? If so, you'll take a penalty, and there isn't a good way to avoid it. You could go Paladin2 /Cleric1 /Sorcerer2 and then into dragon disciple. I am assuming you were taking paladin to 4 to get turn undead. Yeah I was going Pal4 then Sorc1 then DgD. Never thought of throwing cleric in there to avoid it like you said. It's only 20%. Not really a big deal if I'm a few levels behind.
MarkusH 03-16-04, 03:37 PM	You may also want to look at Vassal of Bahamut in BoED.
pawsplay 03-17-04, 01:52 PM	I've decided there is absolutely nothing cooler you could do than Halfling Paladin 2/Cleric 2/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple 10/Knight of the Chalice 5. Diminished caster level is not even an issue, since, hey, Knight of the Chalice has its own spell list. Besides being cute as a button, this character has a nice strength score, good Charisma synergies, and against fiends, has some extra damage output (compensating for small size). Fly-by attack is a good Feat, but talk to your DM about your Paladin code of conduct. For many Paladins, using fly-bys against an opponent who cannot also fly would be dishonorable. In that case, you're better off using your flight for basic transportation. I'm voting for early acquisition of Whirlwind Attack. A reach weapon, natural claws, and Whirlwind Attack would be a strong combination.
Effling 03-17-04, 03:07 PM	I'll start by saying that this is a really cool character concept. Two great feats for flying characters are Great Flyby Attack from Savage Species (move up to your fly speed, attack number of opponents equal to your Dex bonus) and Adroit Flyby Attack from Draconomicon, which is basically the same as Improved Flyby Attack, but instead of Dodge and Mobility, you only need Flyby Attack and Hover/Wingover (or whatever). And beavis, what does "complete rules destroyed clown game" mean, anyway? I do see your point in that for a LotR-style, fairly low-magic campaign, this build doesn't work. But for a high-fantasy, high-magic campaign, I think it would be really cool, for a change, to have a paladin that's not just knight in shiny armor, or even a small knight in shiny armor.
Andreas0815 03-17-04, 03:57 PM	So, where is a halfling Sorc/Pala/DD violating any DnD 3.5 rule? And another thing i wanna tell you: I have read your comments in many treads here, and none of it was helpfull or about rules or how to improve a given build. All i have read from you was what you dislike in specific builds and how some builds don´t stand up to the flavor of an "real" DnD game. Please, go back to ENWorld! :sad:
HoshiAdam 03-17-04, 04:05 PM	Though I didn't see it mentioned initially, the only problem I saw with the first build was the XP penalty. And since you are okay with it, that's cool. :)
HoshiAdam 03-17-04, 05:48 PM	Originally posted by beavis123 Where is that in the core rules? answer: No where They appear in these unsactional bogus "supplement" books designed for you to spend your money on. Paladin: 3.5PHB page 42 Cleric: 3.5PHB page 30 Sorcerer: 3.5PHB page 51 Dragon Disciple: 3.5 DMG page 183 Looks like the basic character concept is core. The last 5 levels might not be core, but they don't interfere with the character concept, just enhance it, in most of the posted build suggestions.
Quijin 03-17-04, 10:06 PM	ok, i dont know why my post didnt go through, even though it showed that it did earlier, i will repost it. I apologize if it ends up being a double post. [Edit: Yes, I removed it, just as I'm removing this. If you have a comment for a poster specifically, use PM's or emails. This thread is about Halfling Paladins--what does critiquing someone's post have to do with that? Use the report feature if you see posts you think offend the CoC and then continue as if the post wasn't there. No need to get it more off topic.]
HoshiAdam 03-17-04, 10:16 PM	Actually, there has been some WizO intervention I think. Best to drop it entirely at this point.
WizO_Autumn 03-17-04, 10:18 PM	I've gone through and cleaned this thread up-- removed a LOT of posts from a lot of people. It would've been much easier to do that if people hadn't responded to trolling posts and just let me get rid of them... Anyway, in the removal, I got rid of a bunch of posts that people had "yelled" back at someone but then also included some good info. I apologize for that and hope the thread isn't doomed as a result. I hope you are able to repost your constructive comments. Keep it all nice and clean, ok?
Quijin 03-17-04, 10:20 PM	im sorry, i was not aware of this at the time when i made that repeat post. I have had problems with internet connection before so i presumed it happened again. -Quijin:tiphat:
Rubicantbu 03-19-04, 11:12 AM	Thanks for cleaning up the mess, Autumn :) It looks like from every thing I've read I'm going to do one of these builds: 1) Pal4, Sor1, DgD10 2) Pal2, Clr2, Sor1, DgD10 3) Pal8, Sor1, DgD10 (level 2 Pally spells, but a long wait for my wings) I think I would prefer to finish DgD by level 15. I'm also going to take the Silver Dragon type, since it seems demons and devils are most suspectible to that. Haven't seen many cold immunity ones besides the Chain Devil and the ice subtype ones. I've decided there is absolutely nothing cooler you could do than Halfling Paladin 2/Cleric 2/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple 10/Knight of the Chalice 5. What book is Knight of the Chalice in? I'm not sure it's in one of the ones we use. I assume I could put Divine Champion in there, or even Platinum Knight. As for feats, I think I like the reach weapon and Whirlwind idea. Going to also look into the fly-by feats in the Draconomicron also. Thanks for the help everyone!
HoshiAdam 03-19-04, 12:31 PM	Knight of the Chalice is in Complete Warrior.