Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Glasken 01-05-07, 11:00 PM	When the need for a new character arises I usually cruise the boards looking for some inspiration and picking the best of what I can find ect... Im sure many do the same. Something I have been looking for but havnt found is a near full-caster archer. The character would almost always stay at range, using spells to alter the battlefield to better support its ranged attacks (single out an enemy as one example). The ranger at first lends itself well to this, but I am looking for a full or near full casting progression with 8th or 9th level spells, and the ability to deal some decent damage via a bow. Any books are avaliable, save for Tome of Battle. Psionics are overruled (only general feats from psionic books allowed) and most Dragon stuff can get by. Forgotten Realms setting Here is by build so far, feel free to tweak it how you want, the character is not made yet so nothing is set in stone. Stats (Comfirmed Rolled) 18, 17, 16, 15, 15, 10 Race: Human Human Paragon3, Battle Sorcerer9, Abjurent Champeon3, Holy Scourge5 This is just a sketchy build but would give 18th level spellcasting and a BAB of 15. Use flaws and just about every feat to boost archery. Cant wait to see your comments, thanks in advance!!
Caelic 01-05-07, 11:07 PM	Well, if you're willing to deviate from the classic Gish archetype (mentioning Ranger suggests that you might be,) the Archivist has significant potential--simply because he can access all those juicy Ranger archery spells, plus Divine Power.
Glasken 01-05-07, 11:39 PM	My suggestion of Ranger was simply to state that it would not lend itself well to this build idea because rangers do not recieve full casting progressions, there spells max out at 4. Also, if anyone is going to post references to PrCs or feats, please list the book they are printed in, it would help greatly.
PhoenixInferno 01-06-07, 12:05 AM	Why the heck would you not want all 5 levels of Abjurant Champion?
Caelic 01-06-07, 12:05 AM	Apologies. The Archivist is, in fact, a base class which appears in Heroes of Horror. It is a divine spellcaster, and hence not the basis of a "classic Gish," but has the advantage of being able to copy spells from a wide variety of spell lists into its prayerbook.
Votan 01-06-07, 12:16 AM	Battle sorcerer is a tough way to go. Classically, the trick that I like to use with a Battlesorcerer is to exploit the feat Arcane Strike (from Complete Warrior) to make up for the terrible spell selection. In terms of mechanics, I would be tempted to just go warmage and use their spells as a source of ranged attacks. Far fewer feats and the same overall effect. The Orb spells, in particular, fit very well with this approach.
MegaPlex 01-06-07, 01:01 AM	There is no reason you can't use a standard arcane Gish build for ranged attack. Just take the Point Blank Shot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#pointBlankShot), Rapid Shot, Precise Shot feat tree. The only issue is that it gets a little MAD, as you want high casting stat (Int), to hit stat (Dex) and damage stat (Str) with a compound bow. You can start off with just focusing on Int + Dex and worry about increasing Strength later when you have $$$ to buy a compound Strength bow. My favorite Gish build is: Wizard 5 / Knight Phantom 10 / Abjurant Champion 5 Requires Outside type or Militia feat from PGtF
tiejaz 01-06-07, 01:17 AM	A better ranged-Gish would be like this: Race: Human Stats: Dex, Cha, Con, Wis, Int, Str Battle Sorcerer 5 / Fighter 1 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Eldritch Knight 8 Feats: 1 Combat Casting 1 Point Blank Shot 3 Extra Spell (Hunter's Mercy) 6 Precise Shot 6 Coordinated Shot (Or Imp. Precise Shot, if you don't foresee allies in melee as a problem.) 9 Extra Spell (Arrow Storm) 12 Rapid Shot 13 Improved Rapid Shot 15 Quicken Spell 18 Easy Metamagic (Quicken Spell) BAB +17 / CL 18 (9th level spells) The benefits this build has over yours are: 1.) Higher BAB (17 vs. your 13 [looked closely at your build]) 2.) No code of conduct, the character keeps his abilities if his alignment changes, say, by a deck of many things, or even naturally... 3.) The ability to ignore 10% of spell failure, say, a mithral chain shirt. 4.) More feats (Fighter and Eldritch Knight, 2 more feats) 5.) Hunter's Mercy and Arrow Storm, two amazing Ranger spells, on your Battle Sorcerer list (auto-crits and attacks against everyone you can see?!) Good spells for this character: 1. True Strike, Arrow Mind, Blade of Blood (read: applies to ranged), Shield, Hunter's Mercy, Guided Shot 2. Deflect, Dimension Hop, Mirror Image, Cat's Grace 3. Repelling Shield, Fly, Arrow Storm, Displacement 4. Melf's Slumber Arrows (Home Pixie Kit!), Wall of Fire (Protection plus flaming arrows!), Greater Invisibility 5. Wall of Stone (You stand on it!) 6. True Seeing, Bigby's Forceful Hand, Tenser's Transformation 7. Arrow of Death 8. Bigby's Clenched Fist, Prismatic Bow 9. Shapechange (Arrow Demon, anyone?) Another idea I had while making this was a variant Duskblade, call it the Duskbow, but gear its special abilities and spells toward ranged attacks, I'd make the following changes: Special Abilities: Combat Casting -> Point Blank Shot (or any feat requiring it that you meet the requirements for, if you take it at 1st level) Arcane Channeling (Melee -> ranged only, allow rays instead of touch) Spell Power (melee -> ranged only) Spells: 1- take out chill touch, shocking grasp, and kelgore's fire bolt for arrow mind, hunter's mercy, and guided shot 2- take out bull's strength, ghoul touch, touch of idiocy, and stretch weapon for ray of ice, ray of sickness, ray of stupidity, and ray of weakness 3- take out dispelling touch, keen edge, and vampiric touch for ray of dizziness, ray of exhaustion, and arrow storm 4- take out toxic weapon for melf's slumber arrows 5- take out waves of fatigue for arrow of death (they get polar ray and bigby's clenched fist- both 8th level!) or maybe prismatic bow
RayJ 01-06-07, 02:58 AM	Probably my favorite character that I ever played was an arcane archer gish. Lots of variants were used to get the flavor and optimization right, but he was very fun to play. Ardyn was an illusionist arcane archer with a black panther animal companion, and was quite the prankster, especially for a moon elf. If I could update the built to include abjurant champion, he would be that much more fun to play. Here's the class/variant breakdown as I would probably do it now: Ranger 2 / Wizard 4 (figher bonus feat and animal companion variants from UA) / Divine Oracle 2 / Abjurant Champion 1 / Arcane Archer 2 / Abjurant Champion +4 / Eldritch Knight 5 I know he takes a huge hit in not getting 9th level spells over 20 levels, but I didn't play him that high and he was more about tactical use of AoE Illusions and concealing his position than he was some of the major gamebreaking stuff. You can easily drop the arcane archer levels if you want to increase spellcasting, but it fit him well. The ranger levels give you very important class skills and skillpoints for setting up decent hide/move silently checks even if you can't keep the skills up at every level (though with a high enough intelligence you can still make them work well at higher levels) Divine Oracle is of course for evasion while still wearing some light armor if you can get the appropriate enchantments on it (Spellsword would be nice, but the armor proficiencies kill you here. Any way to fix this without adding in the militia feat or another non-spellcasting class?) You could also drop a level or two somewhere to get the extra bonus feat at wizard level 5. Focused Specialist from Complete Mage helps with keeping enough spells in your book. I'm sure it could be tweaked a little more on the classes side, but getting your archery feats set up and being smart with spell placement, you'll definitely make a good sniper with this character.
Kuroi Kenshi 01-06-07, 04:26 AM	A Cleric or Archivist Archer build would make a better overall archer, probably. As mentioned, Archivists' massive spell selection is just amazing. But IF you can get your DM to adapt Cyran Avenger to a FR region/kingdom that got decimated at some point, and you absolutely want to be arcane, you could consider this: Human Ranger2/Bard4/Cyran Avenger4/Sublime Chord1/Harper Paragon2/Abjurant Champion5/Cyran Avenger5/Sublime Chord2 You'll get ranged smites and most your levels have good skill lists and/or skill points per level. Pretty respectable average hitdie too. You also get favored enemy: evil for +3 damage (+1d6 more if you take the nemesis feat), but that doesn't come until ECL 13. And you get level 9 spells at ECL 19. BAB is 17. If you can't get your DM to adapt Cyran Avenger, try this: Human Ranger2/Bard3/Harper Paragon1-5/Sublime Chord1/Harper Paragon6-10/Abjurant Champion4 You get FE: Evil at ECL 7 this time, a higher average hitdie (all those Harper Paragon levels are d10s!), an exalted animal companion as a druid 10, and smite evil. Your FE: Evil will also cap out at +7 (+9-11 if you take the extra favored enemy feat once or twice) +1d6 if you take the nemesis feat. BAB is knocked down to 15, but the other perks will probably make up for it. Maybe use UMD on wands of divine power? :p If you really absolutely want BAB 16, drop 2 Harper Paragon levels for 1 level of SC and 1 level of Abjurant Champion. But you lose animal companion levels, +2 bonus to your FE: evil, 1 less smite per day, a little bit of hitpoints, and a few skill points.
DaveTheMagicWeasel 01-06-07, 10:24 AM	Since its FR I'd take a look at the Zhentarim Skyarcher - its a 5 level caster PrC focused on its flying mount, with loads of nice boosts. If memory serves correctly its in Lords of Darkness. Depends on the rest of your group whether a Zhentarim character fits in, but you could try changing the flavor. Then I'd ad in a 2 level Arcane Archer dip.
ninjarabbit 01-06-07, 10:43 AM	ranger1/fighter1/wizard or sorcerer4/spellsword1/abjurantchampion5/sacredexorcist8
colm_l 01-06-07, 10:49 AM	Hmmm. I wonder does this work. Bard 7/Ek1/Arcane Archer 2/Sublime Chord 2/EK 2-9 Seems to.