Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Toivoton 04-26-06, 07:32 PM	Okay since my last 5 characters have died in the last 4 sessions, I'm trying to make a survivable druid to be the second tank. The other party members are a warmage, a dread necromancer, a spellthief and a Dervish. Completes, Races, aligment books and Spell Compendium in use and most other books on DM approval. DM hates polymorphing and things that follow a character around so I took the UA Aspect of nature thingy and the Druidic Avenger variant. I start with 31k exp so I bought off the LA. So: Goliath Druid 8: Str 20 Dex 10 Con 16 Int 8 Wis 16 Cha 8 Can't change these anymore, but should I put the second ability increase in Str or Wis? Feats: 1: Armor prof. martial, Powerattack, Inattentive 3: Armor prof. Heavy 6: Elephant's Hide I'm planning to take Rashemi elemental summoning at 9, if I live that long. Gear: Dwarvencraft Towershield +1 1330 (Hardness 9, 40hp) Greatclub +1 = 2305 +2 Dragonhide Heavy Plate 8300 +2 con periapt 4000 +1 Ring of prot. 2000 +2 Dex gauntlets 4000 Rod of metamagic extend, lesser 3000 Wand of lesser vigor 750 Spells: 1lvl: Longstrider Spider Hand*2 Cure Light 2lvl: Halo of Sand Barkskin Bull's Strength Embrace the Wild 3lvl: Spikes Summon III (Dire Wolf)*2 Cure Moderate 4lvl: Resistance, Greater Last Breath Now using Endurance and Vigor as my aspects, all this gives me 160min/day of: 84 HP (taking 4 instead of rolling d8) and 100 HP while raging, a walking around AC of 29, a fighting AC (with Elephant's hide) of 31 and 2 good attacks. Comments? Also tactics: I was thinking of starting a fight something like this (trying to use spider hand to cast Bull's Strength before battle): 1 round: Hide behind towershield, use Elephant's Hide 2 round: Cast SNA3 (Dire wolf) 2 round: Cast SNA 3 (Dire Wolf) 3 round: Cast Spikes 4 round: Toss off shield and use spiked Greatclub to break something Now normally I'd say that was too long, but our recent fights have all taken quite long and at least my Wolves are doing something from round 2. Should I instead just cast Spikes and start swinging?
ZeroEffect 04-27-06, 04:26 AM	Ick. You're a Druid summoner and you're trying to tank?!?! Are you the only one who is dying in the campaign? What character types seem to be surviving/dying? Are you committed to playing the build that you list here?
kezkoal 04-27-06, 05:49 AM	errrr u re a druid, why u have str 20 ? U CAN WILDSHAPE and then u lose these stat, this point are better in wisdom and inteligence, then.. if u whant to be a summoner i strongly recomender greenbound summoner feat, augment summoning, and rasemi elemental sumoning, and be human 1 spell focus conjuration,-human-augment convocation(+4str + 4 con) 3 greenbound summoning (+6str +4 con +2 dex and cha, wall of thorns spell like hability, +6 nat armor,cold a lighthing resistant, RD 5/slashing or magic, step sense, they become plants, only work in animals an they are no longer animal(u cant use animal growing in they). and more things) 6natural spells<----------- you may alwais be wild shaped 9rasemi elemental greenbound summoning is from lost empires increase your wisdom at all, not your str cos u los it then. the animal u somons can cast wall of thorns(i love this spell) and have +10 str +8 +2 dex +6 nat armor......... when u figth versus warrior,barbarian or any strong melee foe summons animal and put wall of spikes on it, and then it not a problem, your animals(now plant tipe) can go into the wall and atak the foe u can walk in the spike wall without problems, versus spell caster yust get ur summons plant near it and cast wall of thorns whith one to prevent from his movement and make our animals wait until it try to cast any thing and eat his hand XD at the end if u re lvl 7¿arent u? u can use wild shape from3 times 7 hours = 21 every day, u dont need strg stat or dex, meybi constitution 26 is good for it visit this thread for more information yekoj druid handbook (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=165279&origin= )
Toivoton 04-27-06, 10:28 AM	Thanks for the replies. Kez: I CAN'T wildshape! It was banned. So I took the variants. Also I'm not going to take Augment and greenbound because I just can't spare the feats. I think my summoning is good enough with just the Rashemi. Zero: I'm not a summoner - I intend to tank, but I thought the front line would be stronger if I summoned something to help. And _now_ I am committed since we start in an hour. Asked too late.. The Warmage stays alive no matter what he does. You wouldn't believe the luck this guy has. The rest of us die quite frequently. Besides - you really think that at lvl 8 a fully buffed 100hp, AC 27 and an attack routine of 15/15, 2d8+38/2d8+28 (using full powerattack) isn't a strong melee presence? I mean I don't usually melee, but I'd think that was worth something?
GDarius 04-27-06, 11:31 AM	Fraid I'll have to agree with the guys that pegged you as "summoner". If you can't wildshape, then a druid's main thing is going to be 'offense through superior numbers'. If I'm reading your post correctly though, it looks like animal companions are also banned, and you took a druid variant that negates your spontaneous summoning ability. This means that pretty much the only advantage you have to a straight melee Barb in combat is that you can heal with a good concentration check;you have a lower BAB, the barbarian gets more HP, DR and uncanny dodge. He'll also eventually get greater and mighty rage. Granted, you have spells, but if you're looking to tank primarily, those will have to be 24 hour buffs or quickened spells otherwise you'll cut into your full attacks. I'd prepare more healing spells than you have listed (especially if the fatality rate is as high as you say). That Last Breath is a good idea. If you wind up dying again, you may want to try a sword & board Cleric build, or maybe a Barbarian.
Sieylianna 04-27-06, 12:46 PM	The Warmage stays alive no matter what he does. You wouldn't believe the luck this guy has. The rest of us die quite frequently. What's killing you? Melee, spells, traps? The fact that your group doesn't include a cleric may be part of the problem. Ed
Person_Man 04-27-06, 02:27 PM	If you can't Wildshape or take an animal companion or spontanously summon, you're not a Druid, you're a nerfed cleric. My overall assessment is that its a very poor tank. But assuming you're going to stick with being this PC, talk to your DM about what counts as Wildshape. If he counts using an Aspect of Nature as wildshaping, then consider going into Warshaper and/or Nature's Warrior.
Thanatos42 04-27-06, 05:28 PM	I'm still wondering why you chose druid when you knew wildshape was nerfed. If you didn't know in advance, and your DM won't let you create a new character (after taking away easily your most powerful ability), then he won't exactly be winning the DM of the year award. Your animal companion is another powerful (though not nearly as stong) aspect that he nerfed. Why oh why did you pick druid? As has already been suggested, your party needs a cleric. So when this character dies (I wouldn't even try to keep him alive, personally) give this build a try: Cleric 3/Soulknife 2/Soulbow 1/Cleric 14 This may not be optimized per say, but it allows you three things: 9th level divine spells The ability to shoot arrows that you add your wisdom damage to The ability to stay outta melee Take the feat zen archery, as well as the archery tree, and you'll be able to use your wisdom for attack and damage rolls. If you can't use psionics, I'd suggest Cleric 6/Ranger 1/Hospitaler 10/Cleric 3. This gives a BAB of 17 and 8th level spells with good hitdie all around. Stick with archery (mounted archery's even better if your DM allows it). A Monk 1/Cleric 9/Sacred Fist 10 is another fun build. This one also gives a 16 BAB, 9th level spells, and great wisdom synergy. Of course, it tends to stick you more in melee than the others. I'd suggest using a ranged weapon here again, though it's your call. A monk's belt and monk's tattoo along with some size category bumping can deal great unarmed damage (not to mention that sacred fists can get wis > damage a few times per day).
Toivoton 04-27-06, 07:23 PM	This means that pretty much the only advantage you have to a straight melee Barb in combat is that you can heal with a good concentration check;you have a lower BAB, the barbarian gets more HP, DR and uncanny dodge. He'll also eventually get greater and mighty rage. Granted, you have spells, but if you're looking to tank primarily, those will have to be 24 hour buffs or quickened spells otherwise you'll cut into your full attacks. I'd prepare more healing spells than you have listed (especially if the fatality rate is as high as you say). That Last Breath is a good idea. If you wind up dying again, you may want to try a sword & board Cleric build, or maybe a Barbarian. The reason why I didn't memorise more healing is that it seemed way too weak - I mean 2d8+8 in exhange for a dire wolf? I just don't get it. At the moment I have 100 HP in rage. A barb would have say 12+7d12(=42)+7*8=12+42+56=110 just a bit behind. Okay the Barb would indeed have better BAB and therefore an extra attack. Well I get some 6 or so more str. And Spikes. Okay again just a bit behind. I have an AC of 25 and 10 minutes of 32 so the barb is likely be behind. There are likely some cute ways to get a godly AC as a barb, but I can only get say 10+11(armor)+2(def)+2(nat armor) for 25 and the AC thingies alone cost some 22k while I get better bonuses and I pay only for the armor. Naturally the barb's AC lasts all day, but I get the same for 160min/d and 7 better for 10 min. Well okay the barb does get good AC too. Let's say this is even? My will and Fort saves are better and ref is only a point or two behind if the barb is also in heavy armor (and hence hasn't boosted his dex). Unfortunately in the DR deparment the barb wins since I really can't afford to keep stoneskin on all the time. Also I can't get Uncanny dodge. Now what I get in return is a full druid casting with the exeption of the few spells that I have to use buffing. Isn't that worth it? If you can't Wildshape or take an animal companion or spontanously summon, you're not a Druid, you're a nerfed cleric. My overall assessment is that its a very poor tank. I don't like the idea of playing cleric since Divine Metamagic cheese is banned. I also don't get how it would be a stronger tank. I'm open to suggestions tho... Again I have no delusions of this being the strongest build ever, but I don't get how this so poor at tanking that the other abilities aren't worth it. Thanatos: Now why should I play a ranged cleric? the party has a warmage for the ranged attacking and we need a secundary tank and healer. The only deaths I remember are my mage's, who took some wis damage from a trap and then then failed a will save against possession and the possessor forced him to kill himself and my other druid's who was killed by a pair of sneak attacking thingies in one round. Stupid move to get between them, but I didn't realize they sneaked.
Sci 04-27-06, 07:57 PM	You know what... Your character may not be THE MOST optimized thing ever, but it's FAR from weak, and what's more, it is rather original I'd say, which is always nice. It's almost gishy, if you think about it. Can you use gishy as a verb form of gish? Whatever. I would get spontanious healing as a feat if you go this route, because then you can still memorize the good attack/buff spells and keep healing around for an emergency. Augment healing would help if you do go that route, but if you wanna focus on combat, you look like you're set.
ZeroEffect 04-27-06, 09:59 PM	Thanks for the replies. Kez: I CAN'T wildshape! It was banned. So I took the variants. Also I'm not going to take Augment and greenbound because I just can't spare the feats. I think my summoning is good enough with just the Rashemi. Zero: I'm not a summoner - I intend to tank, but I thought the front line would be stronger if I summoned something to help. And _now_ I am committed since we start in an hour. Asked too late.. The Warmage stays alive no matter what he does. You wouldn't believe the luck this guy has. The rest of us die quite frequently. Besides - you really think that at lvl 8 a fully buffed 100hp, AC 27 and an attack routine of 15/15, 2d8+38/2d8+28 (using full powerattack) isn't a strong melee presence? I mean I don't usually melee, but I'd think that was worth something? LOL! For my next character I think I'll make a Wizard with a 20 Str and call him a tank!
kezkoal 04-28-06, 05:53 AM	THEN HATE, HATE your DM if u can't hate he u never become enought strong, and u can't take a revenge, hate me with all your heart little brother... those kind of DM make me fell sick. change your character
gamurai 04-28-06, 07:12 AM	I don't like the idea of playing cleric since Divine Metamagic cheese is banned. He banned wildshape,animal companions and divine metamagic and yet lets someone play a warmage? What is he smoking? He sounds a little hysterical.
ZeroEffect 04-28-06, 08:03 AM	In all seriousness, your Druid is a playable character, even without Wildshape and an Animal Companion. It's just not an optimal choice for a tank. Since it's too late for you to change your character, what kind of advice are you looking for? If you're the primary tank you need to get into the battle in the first round of combat. You can't hide behind your tower shield and cast 3 or 4 rounds of spells before entering the battle.
Toivoton 04-28-06, 09:28 AM	LOL! For my next character I think I'll make a Wizard with a 20 Str and call him a tank! Well if you can get most of the day stats nearing those of a barb and likely better damage buffed, why not? In all seriousness, your Druid is a playable character, even without Wildshape and an Animal Companion. It's just not an optimal choice for a tank. Since it's too late for you to change your character, what kind of advice are you looking for? If you're the primary tank you need to get into the battle in the first round of combat. You can't hide behind your tower shield and cast 3 or 4 rounds of spells before entering the battle. I'm not the main tank! I just intended to mainly tank. I just like to have options if for reason or another it isn't smart or possible to just charge in. I was looking for ideas to make him more survivable. I just posted too late and now I'm looking for something to do from now on. Items, feats for levels 12- (tho most likely I'll take Quicken spell on 12) and spells. I still don't get how this is that bad. For example I used my time this time casting SNA's when I couldn't get to the enemy (we have 1 full time melee'er and the necromancer summons stuff) and rest of the time I melee'ed with better success then the Derwish.
Toivoton 04-28-06, 09:37 AM	THEN HATE, HATE your DM if u can't hate he u never become enought strong, and u can't take a revenge, hate me with all your heart little brother... those kind of DM make me fell sick. change your character Thank you for your highly constructive advice on my character. He banned wildshape,animal companions and divine metamagic and yet lets someone play a warmage? What is he smoking? He sounds a little hysterical. And I thought direct damage isn't that strong... At least I think you are saying that divinists are unreasonably nerfed while something strong from the arcane side (the warmage) is allowed in. And now that I finally noticed the "Edit" button..: I would get spontanious healing as a feat if you go this route, because then you can still memorize the good attack/buff spells and keep healing around for an emergency. Good idea. It's not as usefull as quicken so I'll prolly have to take it at 15.