A fast melee cleric, optimizable? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A fast melee cleric, optimizable? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
xanadu
04-06-05, 01:40 AM I know the prevailing wisdom is that a cleric should dump dex and slap on fullplate for his AC needs. I have always hated playing slow characters because they tend to die when I have to run away, so I try to make all my melee characters have a base move of 40, wear chain shirts, and have a decent tumble score.

If given a 32/36 point buy (DM is debating), what would you recommend for stat distribution?

I have access to the complete and races series. I'll probably go celerity/travel or celerity/war for my domains. We start at 6th level.
PhaedrusXY
04-06-05, 02:06 AM With a good point buy like that, it's not hard to optimize a lightly-armored cleric. The Travel domain gets you Expeditions Retreat, which is 1st level and Persistable. So there's your +10 feet of movement. I'm not sure how to get Tumble as a class skill easily, so hopefully someone else will chime in on that. You could always dip into rogue and take Able Learner, but I'm not sure that's the best option.

Hmm... how about a two-weapon fighter relying on Divine Might for extra damage dice? It might not be the most powerful, but it would probably be unique. :D Use a quarterstaff, and buff it up with Spikes.

human cleric 20

Extend Spell, Persistant Spell, DivineMetaMagic (Persistant), TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Power Attack, Divine Might (not necessarily in that order)

Edit: Actually, this might not be half bad after all. I played a cleric who relied on Persistent buffs and used a quarterstaff for a weapon once, no armor, and almost no magic items. It was sick how nasty he was, actually. It was a 3.0 build, so Persistent Spell was alot easier to use.

The main focus of the build was going to be possessing people (hence the not relying on magic items part), but I actually never got to do that. I only got to play him once, then the DM canceled the game, probably partially because of me. I cast Hold Person on the rogue, with a high DC, then Coup De Grace'd him for around 150ish damage. :P I heavily enchanted his Monk's Belt, adding the powers of several other magic items to it, so I only had to worry about one magic item. Then I kept a Dramij's Instant Summons on it, so I could get it back if his "host" got killed.

Here is a link: the Possessor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150894). I'd love to find a group I could play him in now. Until then, I'll have to settle for using NPCs based loosely off him. :D
Debug0x2a
04-06-05, 02:21 AM for that kind of thing i usually prefer a druid, however another option could be an enlightened fist. expedious retreat wont stack with it, but it may be worth a shot. Then you can really concentrate on wis because that will go to your ac.
emrys
04-06-05, 12:06 PM with celerity your base is a 40 move, you have exp. retreat with your domains so persistant spells is the way to go for a all day move of 70, you may want to consider contemplative from complete divine to give you 2 extra domains i would suggest one of them be planning domain for extend spell as a bonus feat and the magic domain for spell turning to help counter dispel magic. I would go race human if you don't mind droping a caster lvl and can get the human paragon from ua for a bonus feat, extra skill points, any one skill as a class skill for all your classes, and a +2 to any stat. unfortunatly all your stats are somewhat important, you can dump str with a persistant divine power you add +6 to it, but remember thats a 4th lvl spell. charisma is important for the number of your turn checks to make persistant spell viable, you can offset a lower cha with a persistant visage of the diety spells + 4 cha and other goodies, the lowest of that group of spells being a 3rd lvl spell.
a high wisdom is a necessity and dex will be your friend in the early lvls to keep you alive. you can offset a lower con with the improved toughness feat from complete warrior, if you actually want a build post, pm me and i'll work something up, will need to know some more info, things like starting gold, if your dm allows clerics without dieties, campain setting ect.
rilem
04-06-05, 02:23 PM Sacred Fist gets tumble as a class skill, so Monk1/Cleric5 is an option, leading into SF.

There are a couple races that get Base Move of 40 — Nezumi from Oriental Adventures and Gray Orc from Races of Faerun. Gray Orc even has Cleric as favored class, though it's LA+1.
Debug0x2a
04-06-05, 03:03 PM If you want a fast divine caster i can give you one, but its not a cleric, and its not pure divine either. For a hard caster though, i like either the sacred fist if you want to go into melee, or the persistant retreat cleric if you just intend to run around curing allies. I'll try posting a lvl 20 sacred fist build.
Crusher Nate
04-06-05, 03:31 PM Is Unearthed Arcana an option? If so, I'd recommend the Cloistered Cleric variant class. In exchange for giving up your medium and heavy armor proficiencies (which you won't be using anyway), you'd get a third domain and 6 skill points per level.

Your BAB also drops into the "wimpy spellcaster" category, but that shouldn't be a problem if you're planning on PrC/multiclassing. You'd probably end up losing like one point of BAB in the long run.
ronyon
04-06-05, 03:53 PM My My first 3.0 character was a cleric of death and travel, worshiping a home brew "god of the eternal journey" . Think caravans of Undead. Istarted as a rogue, chose running , dodge ,and mobility as feats (eventually) and charged into combat weilding touch spells! Sub optimal to say the least, but fun, fun fun!

Here is a link: the Possessor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150894). I'd love to find a group I could play him in now. Until then, I'll have to settle for using NPCs based loosely off him. :D
Truely this one of the coolest cleric builds ever. I keep it in my favorites as inspiration for how to do a specialist right, giving flavor and effectiveness.
I need to go study it now, and see what a first level dip into Ninja, instead of Monk would look like.I love skills and Ninja has wis to Ac,two good saves(effectively),Tumble and 6 skillpoints per level, but then again Monk has Wis to Ac,Tumble,flurry,Improved Unarmed Strike and all good saves, a bonus feat, evasion at second level, you get the picture.
Mobil Spellcasting, and Sheilded Casting are two mobility enhancing feats that come to mind , though Sheilded casting doesnt play well with Wis to Ac.
I have been toying with a mounted cleric build, using either Undead or Summoned mounts, but nothing has come of it. All I want is 6 skill points,Riding, Wisdom to Ac, Tumbling and second level Evasion, in a one class dip. Is that to much to ask?
Debug0x2a
04-06-05, 08:23 PM Here's 2 options with a bit of room for optimization:

Monk 6 / Fighter 2 / Ur-Priest 2 / Sacred Fist 10
This one doesnt get domains, and of course since its a monk and has an enhancement to speed already, you cant use expedious retreat, however it gets 9th level spells, has a base attack of +17/+12/+7/+2 (+16/+16/+11/+6/+1 with flurry of blows) and has an unarmored speed of 80 ft. Recommended feats after meating all prereqs for PrCs would probably be quicken spell, divine metamagic (quicken) and extra turning. That way you can run into combat, divine quicken harm, and punch your foe in the gut. This has less spells per day then the next one, but more combat prowess, and higher level spells.

Monk 2 / Cleric 8 / Sacred Fist 10
Base attack bonus is +17/+12/+7/+2 (+15/+15/+10/+5/+0 with flurry of blows), and with celerity domain, this one gets an unarmored speed of 60 ft. Once again recommended feats include the quicken and divine metamagic path. This has more spells per day, but lower level spells. Better if the focus is on cleric.
allenchan
04-06-05, 08:51 PM This is a good trapfinder/backup cleric i was considering for a WLD campaign. Wis, Dex, Int, Con, Cha, Str in that order

LG Cleric of Hoar. Celerity* and Travel Domains.
lvl CLASS
1 Ninja 1 Able Learner, Fleet of Foot
2 Cleric 1
3 Cleric 2 Improved Initiative
4 Cleric 3
5 Cleric 4
6 Shadowbane Stalker 1 Quick Reconnoiter
7 Shadowbane Stalker 2
8 Shadowbane Stalker 3
9 Shadowbane Stalker 4 Practiced Spellcaster
10 Skullclan Hunter 1
11 Skullclan Hunter 2
12 Shadowbane Stalker 5 ???
13 Shadowbane Stalker 6
14 Shadowbane Stalker 7
15 Shadowbane Stalker 8 ???
16 Shadowbane Stalker 9
17 Shadowbane Stalker 10
18 Church Inquisitor 1 ???

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
xanadu 04-06-05, 01:40 AM	I know the prevailing wisdom is that a cleric should dump dex and slap on fullplate for his AC needs. I have always hated playing slow characters because they tend to die when I have to run away, so I try to make all my melee characters have a base move of 40, wear chain shirts, and have a decent tumble score. If given a 32/36 point buy (DM is debating), what would you recommend for stat distribution? I have access to the complete and races series. I'll probably go celerity/travel or celerity/war for my domains. We start at 6th level.
PhaedrusXY 04-06-05, 02:06 AM	With a good point buy like that, it's not hard to optimize a lightly-armored cleric. The Travel domain gets you Expeditions Retreat, which is 1st level and Persistable. So there's your +10 feet of movement. I'm not sure how to get Tumble as a class skill easily, so hopefully someone else will chime in on that. You could always dip into rogue and take Able Learner, but I'm not sure that's the best option. Hmm... how about a two-weapon fighter relying on Divine Might for extra damage dice? It might not be the most powerful, but it would probably be unique. :D Use a quarterstaff, and buff it up with Spikes. human cleric 20 Extend Spell, Persistant Spell, DivineMetaMagic (Persistant), TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Power Attack, Divine Might (not necessarily in that order) Edit: Actually, this might not be half bad after all. I played a cleric who relied on Persistent buffs and used a quarterstaff for a weapon once, no armor, and almost no magic items. It was sick how nasty he was, actually. It was a 3.0 build, so Persistent Spell was alot easier to use. The main focus of the build was going to be possessing people (hence the not relying on magic items part), but I actually never got to do that. I only got to play him once, then the DM canceled the game, probably partially because of me. I cast Hold Person on the rogue, with a high DC, then Coup De Grace'd him for around 150ish damage. :P I heavily enchanted his Monk's Belt, adding the powers of several other magic items to it, so I only had to worry about one magic item. Then I kept a Dramij's Instant Summons on it, so I could get it back if his "host" got killed. Here is a link: the Possessor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150894). I'd love to find a group I could play him in now. Until then, I'll have to settle for using NPCs based loosely off him. :D
Debug0x2a 04-06-05, 02:21 AM	for that kind of thing i usually prefer a druid, however another option could be an enlightened fist. expedious retreat wont stack with it, but it may be worth a shot. Then you can really concentrate on wis because that will go to your ac.
emrys 04-06-05, 12:06 PM	with celerity your base is a 40 move, you have exp. retreat with your domains so persistant spells is the way to go for a all day move of 70, you may want to consider contemplative from complete divine to give you 2 extra domains i would suggest one of them be planning domain for extend spell as a bonus feat and the magic domain for spell turning to help counter dispel magic. I would go race human if you don't mind droping a caster lvl and can get the human paragon from ua for a bonus feat, extra skill points, any one skill as a class skill for all your classes, and a +2 to any stat. unfortunatly all your stats are somewhat important, you can dump str with a persistant divine power you add +6 to it, but remember thats a 4th lvl spell. charisma is important for the number of your turn checks to make persistant spell viable, you can offset a lower cha with a persistant visage of the diety spells + 4 cha and other goodies, the lowest of that group of spells being a 3rd lvl spell. a high wisdom is a necessity and dex will be your friend in the early lvls to keep you alive. you can offset a lower con with the improved toughness feat from complete warrior, if you actually want a build post, pm me and i'll work something up, will need to know some more info, things like starting gold, if your dm allows clerics without dieties, campain setting ect.
rilem 04-06-05, 02:23 PM	Sacred Fist gets tumble as a class skill, so Monk1/Cleric5 is an option, leading into SF. There are a couple races that get Base Move of 40 — Nezumi from Oriental Adventures and Gray Orc from Races of Faerun. Gray Orc even has Cleric as favored class, though it's LA+1.
Debug0x2a 04-06-05, 03:03 PM	If you want a fast divine caster i can give you one, but its not a cleric, and its not pure divine either. For a hard caster though, i like either the sacred fist if you want to go into melee, or the persistant retreat cleric if you just intend to run around curing allies. I'll try posting a lvl 20 sacred fist build.
Crusher Nate 04-06-05, 03:31 PM	Is Unearthed Arcana an option? If so, I'd recommend the Cloistered Cleric variant class. In exchange for giving up your medium and heavy armor proficiencies (which you won't be using anyway), you'd get a third domain and 6 skill points per level. Your BAB also drops into the "wimpy spellcaster" category, but that shouldn't be a problem if you're planning on PrC/multiclassing. You'd probably end up losing like one point of BAB in the long run.
ronyon 04-06-05, 03:53 PM	My My first 3.0 character was a cleric of death and travel, worshiping a home brew "god of the eternal journey" . Think caravans of Undead. Istarted as a rogue, chose running , dodge ,and mobility as feats (eventually) and charged into combat weilding touch spells! Sub optimal to say the least, but fun, fun fun! Here is a link: the Possessor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150894). I'd love to find a group I could play him in now. Until then, I'll have to settle for using NPCs based loosely off him. :D Truely this one of the coolest cleric builds ever. I keep it in my favorites as inspiration for how to do a specialist right, giving flavor and effectiveness. I need to go study it now, and see what a first level dip into Ninja, instead of Monk would look like.I love skills and Ninja has wis to Ac,two good saves(effectively),Tumble and 6 skillpoints per level, but then again Monk has Wis to Ac,Tumble,flurry,Improved Unarmed Strike and all good saves, a bonus feat, evasion at second level, you get the picture. Mobil Spellcasting, and Sheilded Casting are two mobility enhancing feats that come to mind , though Sheilded casting doesnt play well with Wis to Ac. I have been toying with a mounted cleric build, using either Undead or Summoned mounts, but nothing has come of it. All I want is 6 skill points,Riding, Wisdom to Ac, Tumbling and second level Evasion, in a one class dip. Is that to much to ask?
Debug0x2a 04-06-05, 08:23 PM	Here's 2 options with a bit of room for optimization: Monk 6 / Fighter 2 / Ur-Priest 2 / Sacred Fist 10 This one doesnt get domains, and of course since its a monk and has an enhancement to speed already, you cant use expedious retreat, however it gets 9th level spells, has a base attack of +17/+12/+7/+2 (+16/+16/+11/+6/+1 with flurry of blows) and has an unarmored speed of 80 ft. Recommended feats after meating all prereqs for PrCs would probably be quicken spell, divine metamagic (quicken) and extra turning. That way you can run into combat, divine quicken harm, and punch your foe in the gut. This has less spells per day then the next one, but more combat prowess, and higher level spells. Monk 2 / Cleric 8 / Sacred Fist 10 Base attack bonus is +17/+12/+7/+2 (+15/+15/+10/+5/+0 with flurry of blows), and with celerity domain, this one gets an unarmored speed of 60 ft. Once again recommended feats include the quicken and divine metamagic path. This has more spells per day, but lower level spells. Better if the focus is on cleric.
allenchan 04-06-05, 08:51 PM	This is a good trapfinder/backup cleric i was considering for a WLD campaign. Wis, Dex, Int, Con, Cha, Str in that order LG Cleric of Hoar. Celerity* and Travel Domains. lvl CLASS 1 Ninja 1 Able Learner, Fleet of Foot 2 Cleric 1 3 Cleric 2 Improved Initiative 4 Cleric 3 5 Cleric 4 6 Shadowbane Stalker 1 Quick Reconnoiter 7 Shadowbane Stalker 2 8 Shadowbane Stalker 3 9 Shadowbane Stalker 4 Practiced Spellcaster 10 Skullclan Hunter 1 11 Skullclan Hunter 2 12 Shadowbane Stalker 5 ??? 13 Shadowbane Stalker 6 14 Shadowbane Stalker 7 15 Shadowbane Stalker 8 ??? 16 Shadowbane Stalker 9 17 Shadowbane Stalker 10 18 Church Inquisitor 1 ???