Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MistWolf 11-05-05, 10:23 PM	Yes, it's possible although it does take 2 of levels of Rogue as well. Take Fighter until 4th level, then Rogue until 2nd to get Evasion. Select Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot and Weapon Focus (any thrown weapon). Make sure you have Sleight of Hand 4 Ranks. What do you do then? Why you take the little known Master Thrower Class up to 2nd level and Viola! Improved Evasion! The best part about it? At 8th level your BAB is that of a 7th level Fighter (as the Base Attack Bonus for the Master Thrower is that of a Fighter), as well as a few basic Rogue abilities. How do you get Improved Evasion, you ask? If you turn to page 59 of the Complete Warrior, you'll see a paragraph that states "At 2nd Level, a Master Thrower gains the evasion ability.......If a character already has the evasion ability, he gains improved evasion instead." You just can't wear heavier than light armor. (Just where did I leave that +1 Mithral Shirt with Greater Shadow?) Take THAT, you big nasty fire ball breathing sorcerer dragon area effect type attacking creature, you! Not only do I only take half damage at the most, but I can sneak up on ya from the shadows and lay a good solid sneak attack upside your head with a great sword too! But wait! There's more! What if we start with a Swashbuckler instead? Weapon Finesse, Grace +1, Insightful Strike- hey, not bad! Might have to try it!
rilem 11-05-05, 10:45 PM	I'm not sure I'd call Master Thrower 'little known'. It's used quite frequently, just not as much since the CW errata nerfed its PrC playmate, the Invisible Blade. But yes, that works fine. Monk2/Fighter4 is arguably even better, as you get another two feats and a better will save (A Rog2/Fighter4/MT2 has a Base Will save of +1; the same build with Monk instead of Rogue has a Will Save of +4).
MistWolf 11-05-05, 11:06 PM	Fighter/Monk is a good combination, however, unless you use a feat slot, you can't level up in both classes. You also won't get Improved Evasion until your monk hits 9th level, the Rogue at 10th. I don't think the Evasion from these two classes will stack. The unarmed, flurry of blows, evasion and the two extra feats do make the monk an attractive- albeit limited- alternative
Blade2718 11-05-05, 11:31 PM	Fighter/Monk is a good combination, however, unless you use a feat slot, you can't level up in both classes. You also won't get Improved Evasion until your monk hits 9th level. The unarmed, flurry of blows, evasion and the two extra feats do make the monk an attractive- albeit limited- alternativeI fail to see the logic of your statement. Any race with Favored Class: Fighter, Monk, or Any can progress as a Ftr4/Mnk2 with no penalties. Monks also get Evasion at second level, so there's no difference there. Your max ranks in a cross class skill at ECL 6 is 5, so you can get the required ranks of Sleight of Hand at the same time a Ftr/Rog can. Finally, you don't have fewer feats than a Ftr/Rog so you can acquire all the same feats at the same times.
PhoenixInferno 11-05-05, 11:41 PM	I fail to see the logic of your statement. Any race with Favored Class: Fighter, Monk, or Any can progress as a Ftr4/Mnk2 with no penalties. I don't think he was talking about multiclassing penalties - I think he was talking about Monk multiclassing restrictions. Which I think are ridiculous, anyway.
MistWolf 11-05-05, 11:53 PM	Yes, I was talking about the Monk multi-classing restrictions. Monks can't take a level in any other class unless they take one of the Ascetic feats. Ridiculus or not, it's in the book and that's how many DMs play it. But hey, I was sharing a way to stay within the rules and come up with character with some cool abilities that's fun to roleplay Play hard- have fun. Let the DM set'em up- you knock'em down
kilroo 11-06-05, 12:01 AM	Yes, I was talking about the Monk multi-classing restrictions. Monks can't take a level in any other class unless they take one of the Ascetic feats. Ridiculus or not, it's in the book and that's how many DMs play it. But hey, I was sharing a way to stay within the rules and come up with character with some cool abilities that's fun to roleplay Play hard- have fun. Let the DM set'em up- you knock'em down Uh...sure they can. You just can't take any more monk levels afterward. Which, for these purposes, ain't too powerful a problem by my reckoning.
MistWolf 11-06-05, 12:12 AM	Uh...sure they can. You just can't take any more monk levels afterward. Which, for these purposes, ain't too powerful a problem by my reckoning. Basically what I was saying. Once a monk takes a level in another class he can no longer level up as a monk unless he takes one of the ascetic feats. No, it's not a major problem but it won't get you improved evasion. Ok, you don't want improved evasion. Just say so. Like my old Uncle Frank used to say "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him have fun"
MechaboyDos 11-06-05, 12:16 AM	You get Improved Evasion from Master Thrower.
Blade2718 11-06-05, 12:42 AM	Fighter, Fighter, Fighter, Fighter, Monk, Monk, Master Thrower, Master Thrower -> Improved Evasion Monk multiclassing restrictions have no impact on the acquisition of the ability in question.
kilroo 11-06-05, 01:30 AM	I think the misunderstanding was that you thought a faster way to get it was being proposed, when what was being offered was actually an alternate entry that gets it at the same speed...
MistWolf 11-06-05, 09:18 AM	I misunderstood the post from Rilem. I thought he was suggesting substituting Monk for Master Thrower. I guess I hijacked my own thread. For that, I apologize. Monk helps when fighting unarmed and does good for your Will saves. However, taking Rogue gives you mad skill points to build up your move silent & hide. The sneak attack ability helps to focus your strikes by adding to damage. Another reason I used Rogue as an example is that it lacks multi-classing or alignment restrictions making for a more flexible option as the character continues leveling up. But the Monk is an intriguing alternative
jstorrie 11-06-05, 07:03 PM	Monk would also allow you to take a non-Spiked-Chain reach weapon and still threaten within 5 feet.
Dark_and_Stormy 11-06-05, 07:30 PM	I can't remember the requirements, but the old yakuza class from OA granted Improved Evasion at 2 level, and was a pretty damn good class.
aod318 11-06-05, 08:56 PM	In the Forgotten Realms 3.0E book, there are Monk schools that allow you to freely multiclass to one other class. Where is it written that evasion gained twice equals improved evasion??? There is a Dragon Mag prestige class called the Omatu Master that gives Imp Evasion at 5th level, but you need BAB +4 and at least 1 monk level, so with Monk 2/Fighter 3 you are ready. Only 1 level quicker then straight monk, but allows you to pick up those Fighter feats.
PhoenixInferno 11-06-05, 09:02 PM	Where is it written that evasion gained twice equals improved evasion??? Its not a rule, but some classes that grant Evasion will say that if you already have Evasion, you get Improved Evasion instead - Master Thrower being one of them.
rilem 11-06-05, 10:13 PM	... can't remember the requirements, but the old yakuza class from OA granted Improved Evasion at 2 level, and was a pretty damn good class. I thought about Yakuza for this, but it's not faster -- I think with the skill requirements you'd get Improved Evasion at either 8 or 9.
X-Codes 11-07-05, 05:27 AM	Improved Evasion? Meh... Improved Evasion isn't so hot as far as I'm concerned. I mean, Mettle + Evasion + Divine Grace (done by a Rogue 2/Hex 3) will make it so you won't likely fail any saves anyway as long as your Charisma remains high. All improved evasion does is make it so you take half damage when you fail a saving throw which, if you are a dex monkey, won't happen.
eudas 11-07-05, 11:11 AM	Improved Evasion? Meh... Improved Evasion isn't so hot as far as I'm concerned. I mean, Mettle + Evasion + Divine Grace (done by a Rogue 2/Hex 3) will make it so you won't likely fail any saves anyway as long as your Charisma remains high. All improved evasion does is make it so you take half damage when you fail a saving throw which, if you are a dex monkey, won't happen. Just a nitpick, Rogue 2/Hexblade 3 only has Evasion + Mettle; the Divine Grace comes later, when they take Blackguard levels. Or, perhaps you were thinking of Arcane Resistance, which is available at Hexblade 2. eudas