Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gNoLo 08-04-05, 09:41 AM	I was thinking how to make strong a simple wizard, without prestige classes, not specialist... Grey elf, with the elf wizard substitution 1° level, Races of Wild, that make him specialized il all magic schools. And then? What could i do? Feats? Help me, please...
necrosnoop110 08-04-05, 09:52 AM	You’re sure you wouldn’t rather go at least: Grey Elf, Elf Wizard Sub 1/ Wizard 4/ Mage of the Arcane Order 10/ Arch Mage 5
gNoLo 08-04-05, 10:30 AM	You’re sure you wouldn’t rather go at least: Grey Elf, Elf Wizard Sub 1/ Wizard 4/ Mage of the Arcane Order 10/ Arch Mage 5 Yes, sure. In effect it was what i thought... but i really want to know what feats i have to use. Thanks.
Jimbo19 08-04-05, 10:46 AM	Im in the same boat. Last wizard got killed so rerolled another @ 4th level. I am going this route as well. But my DM nixed Incanatrix. He says you cant specialize that means no Incanatrix. I was expecting it, I tried to sneak it out in a conversation, but he caught it. Makes sense, I would rule the same. So I am lookin at PRC's. I like the looks of Loremaster. It has rude requirements. Skill focus any knowledge?? Total 4 feats, and 20 skill points to get in, minimum lvl 8 before first level in LM. Mage of Arcane order just doesnt look that hot to me. Maybe I need to give it another look. So you leave slots open than spend a round calling in a replacement. then next round or so using it. I can see that is nice especially when you need to get around a nasty obstacle, you can pull out any spell you can cast, for just that situation. Pay it back later when traveling to town. Lore master looks to have bigger payoffs. But I have questions about it, and they are not answered in the errata. 1. The 6th ability to get identify, does this mean no 100gp expense? You just concentrate and know? 2. The #9 and 10 secrets say get another 1st or 2nd lvl spell. Is this just allowing you to add another spell to your book? that would be useless by the time you can get it. Looks to me like it should say an extra 1st or 2nd spell slot. Anyone have answer for me on the these cause I know my DM is gonna want to rule on this, and I would like some precedent to give him before he jumps.
runestar 08-04-05, 12:30 PM	I see these racial sub lvs a lot these days, but have no idea what they are. Can anyone please enlighten me? Thanks in advance.
gNoLo 08-04-05, 02:49 PM	I see these racial sub lvs a lot these days, but have no idea what they are. Can anyone please enlighten me? Thanks in advance. You can choose to take a racial substitution lavel in place af a normal class level. In this way you aquire some special qualities that with the normal class you don't take. For example, at first level an elf can choose to take the substitution elf wizard level in place of a normal wizard level: in this way he has the ability to be specialized in all schools, that grant a bonus spell slot/level of any school, but he loss the normal specialization.
Gavinfoxx 08-04-05, 03:15 PM	Where do you find the rules for this particular substitution?
Chaotica Maxima 08-04-05, 03:19 PM	The rules for the Elf Wizard Substitution levels are in Races of the Wild. All the 'Races of X' books have a bunch of them. I like em :D
Jimbo19 08-04-05, 03:48 PM	thats not right. Elf wiz 1st lvl racial sub level: allows you some other goodies but the only extra spell per day you get is 1 at your highest spell lvl. so at 5th level you would have a base of 2 3rd level spells for the day instead of 1. Before int bonus etc. The really nice thing is the 3 free spells per level.
Silver_Fox 08-06-05, 03:25 AM	This may put me of as somewhat thinly read, but where can I find the grey elf?
Nurlithion 08-06-05, 04:22 AM	monster manual
Gavinfoxx 03-10-06, 12:04 PM	To bring up an old thread... So what would the feat progression of a Sun Elf Elf Wizard Sub 1/ Wizard 4/ Mage of the Arcane Order 10/ Arch Mage 5 And does everyone agree that this is the ultimate "cast anything" generalist wizard?
runestar 03-10-06, 12:11 PM	But my DM nixed Incanatrix. He says you cant specialize that means no Incanatrix. I was expecting it, I tried to sneak it out in a conversation, but he caught it. Makes sense, I would rule the same. Incantatrix(at least the PGTF version) does not require you to specialise, you merely give up a school. So it should be fair game. I dunno, is going elf wiz20 such a bad idea? Take the collegiate wizard feat too. :)
Gnarl 03-10-06, 01:37 PM	I was thinking how to make strong a simple wizard, without prestige classes, not specialist... Grey elf, with the elf wizard substitution 1° level, Races of Wild, that make him specialized il all magic schools. And then? What could i do? Feats? Help me, please... To start, going straight wizard will not make a highly optimized character. Could you please provide us additional information on the campaign: what power level (random stats, 25 point buy, max hit points ...), what level are you starting at, what will be the maximum level, how many characters? Could you also tell us about your personal preferences (for instance, I'm addicted to fireballs even though they're not that great). Level 1: I would take Collegiate Wizard. The feat is just fantastic. You would get 5 spells per level instead of 2. This will make your wizard much stronger because you'll get a whole lot of spells to scribe on scrolls and you will be able to face many more situations. If you're starting above 10th level, don't bother with this one. Level 3: I like taking Arcane Mastery at 3rd level. You will be able to use high level scrolls without any risk and will automaticaly make most of your spell resistance checks. Yes that's right, most monsters have a spell resistance around CR +10. So unless you're only facing solitary high power opponents all the time, this feat will be priceless. In a party of more than 5 characters, this won't be as useful as the DM will probably toss multiple high level monsters to keep it challenging. Level 5: Craft Wondrous Items without a doubt. Use it, a lot, even for other party members. Being half a level behind the party is a great idea. If you're DM is awarding experience points as described in the DM guide, each encounter will give you a little extra xp (50-500 depending on levle) that can be wasted on item creation. Level 6: Great Fortitude. Monsters will start having wicked Fortitude-based save or die effects (like petrifying gazes) so increasing your fortitude save is a good idea. Level 9: Empower Spell. Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement is just plain evil. I like empowered fireballs too. Level 10: Maximize Spell. I never know what to put in here. I usualy take maximize spell just in case some day I make it to epic levels (to get intensify spell). Level 12: Craft Staves. This will give you an unlimited supply of offensive spells for practicaly nothing. A staff of lesser orbs only less than 200 gold pieces to make. Level 15: Quicken Spell. Yeah, you'll have to take it one day or another. At high levels, casting more than one spell per round is the way to go. Level 15: Improved Toughness. You have so many feats to waste that you can afford the little extra hit points. Level 18, 20: Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Eschew Materials... You should be preparing your epic character at these levels.
Jimbo19 03-10-06, 02:25 PM	How come people make the sub level out to be a seperate class level? I remeber looking at racial subs in ROS and dont see anything like that. If you do that do you also get the bonus +2 to will saves? To me a racial sub elf wiz would still be a wiz 5, at 5th level. Course if there is a rule for it, I will buy it. now to gavin. I would say making a wizard like wiz 5/MoAo x, archmage, is suboptimal. I always see these opt board dudes say staying in wiz past 5 is bad. Yet they never acknowledge the cost of opportunity to get into some of their pet PRC's. If you know what kind of generalist you want to be, why waste feats to get into a PRC that will just slow your power down, and pay it back later? I think MoAO is great for a sorcerer, but would never take it for a wiz. It just delays you, and allows you to be a little more versatile. I stress little more. You get scribe scroll for free, use it to have spells you may need. If I was going Archmage, I see no reason to get another PRC. Wiz 15 nets you 3 bonus feats. And your regular feats are not used up for pre-reqs for some PRC, use em for your charatcer design. A great generalist is a jack of all trades magical. Get feats using the just in time rule. Meaning dont take stuff until you can actually use it. And dont waste the feats you do have on pre-reqs you will never use. MoAo requires coop spell. You will never use it. And for the cost of getting in 750gp you can buy 2x3rd level spells. Course 6 or so levels later they replace that with free spells. Nice of them ehh? Elf with racial sub, Feats Empower Spell 1 Spell focus x 3 Craft wondorus 5 bonus Sudden maximize 6 Spell Penetration 9 Quicken 10 bonus Greater Spell Penetration 12 That would take me to 12th level. Course you would be getting 3 spells per level for free, and 1 extra casting slot of your highest spell level per day. Its real hard to improve on this guy. Everything he has he uses. Nothing is wasted getting into a PRC, and everything is used as soon as he can take it, except for Empower Spell. You could move spell penetration back to 12th and take imp initiative at 9, depending on your dex. This wiz will be great during his blasting phase, and will be able to transition well into his extra planar/save the party /trap the nasty thing from getting away/ get the party away from the nastier thing phases. His spell penetration feats are there to make sure you can land those nasty spells. Craft wondorus to make sure you have the headband of intellect and gloves of dex you need for saves and ranged touch attacks. By not leaving wiz you dont lose any BAB, PRC's can set back your BAB by 2 levels depending on how many you take and when. If you are not playing lower levels, by all means build for Archmage. But if yo are gonna play all the way up, Then wasting feats early in your char's life for levels a long time away, is no fun, and may get you rerolling. I think the racial sub adds a skill to the wiz skill list as well. dont remeber but I think its search, if so max it out. Help the rogue search, use you extra skill points to keep escape artist as high as you can, and tumble too. Make a tumble check to move out of a large creatures reach, or when you get surrounded. With decent dex, dex gloves, and some skill synergies, use your escape artist to get away from a grapple instead of strength. Will amaze your DM when you beat a grapple check when he has rolled a modified 30. The wiz strength is versatility, usually that means spells, but it means using everything the wiz offers. But if your gonna use a familiar, then move things around to get improved familiar and get a psuedo dragon. And have familiar pocket spell going anytime he could be in danger. I hate familiars but some like em. My DM tries to get them.
Gavinfoxx 03-10-06, 11:25 PM	Remember guys -- I'm bumping an old post... I just want to know what a good non specialist wizard that can cast most any wiz/sorceror spell that doesn't give up any school of magic that would be great for a person's first time playing a wizard would be... you know, to get to know the spells and stuff...
ancalimohtar 03-10-06, 11:59 PM	For your first time, play a Wizard/Loremaster. You lose one feat (the other three you would have taken anyway) and gain a good amount of useful stuff. The (Ex) identify will save your party lots of money, and save yourself a couple of level 1 spell slots a day. The secrets are actually quite worth it. ElfSubWiz 1 Sculpt Spell [CA] (free Scribe Scroll) Wiz2 Wiz3 Craft Wondrous Wiz4 Wiz5 free metamagic: Empower Wiz6 Skill focus: Knowledge (arcana) Wiz7 Wiz8 LM1 FEAT LM2 LM3 LM4 FEAT LM5 LM6 LM7 FEAT LM8 LM9 LM10 FEAT Wiz9 Wiz10Oh, and I delayed entering LM by one level for BAB and the Will save; you could enter it after Wiz7 if you're not using ray spells much.
Father Dale 03-11-06, 02:35 AM	To answer the earlier question. Yes, a Loremaster just looks at an item and he identifies it. He doesn't need any components, including pearls; its totally free and doesn't take an hour to do either. (Just to note, that the 6th lvl spell Analyze Dweomer will let you identify items as a free action once a round and lasts a round per level. Once a wizard can cast that, identify is useless.) Also, the Loremaster can eventually "get back" the Skill Focus feat by taking the secret that gives a free feat. Some of the other secrets are equivalent to a feat as well (e.g. the feats that boost one saving throw by 2 are equivalent to the feats that do the same, although the effects could stack) Loremasters also get more skill points each level and have a realy nice skill list, including Use Magic Device.
pyro_cat 03-11-06, 09:39 AM	I like this. (I'll take 1 Flaw) Costs one feat to enter everything; Cooperative Spell, which may not actually be a 'cost', depending on the composition of the rest of the party. Loses a few skill points to qualify for Fatespinner, and loses a few during those Loremaster levels as you make massive dumps into UMD, but other than that you're free to take what you want. Wizard 1 (Collegiate Wizard, Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus: Evocation, Arcane Mastery) Wizard 2 Wizard 3 (Sculpt Spell) Wizard 4 Wizard 5 (Cooperative Spell) MotAO 1 (Craft Wonderous Item) MotAO 2 (Empower Spell) MotAO 3 MotAO 4 (Skill Focus (Knowledge Religion)) Loremaster 1 (Instant Mastery: UMD) Loremaster 2 MotAO 5 (Sudden Maximize) MotAO 6 Loremaster 3 (Energy Substitution: Sonic) MotAO 7 (Spell Penetration) Divine Oracle 1 Divine Oracle 2 Fatespinner 1 (Greater Spell Penetration) Fatespinner 2 Fatespinner 3 I'm debating whether or not it would be better to take out Divine Oracle, grab 1 level of Geometer for those free Silenced spells, and then grab the fourth level of Fatespinner.
Gavinfoxx 03-11-06, 12:44 PM	So would it be worth it to try and go for wizard/loremaster/archmage?
MysticRhythms 03-11-06, 01:10 PM	To start, going straight wizard will not make a highly optimized character. Why not? You have no feat requirements to enforce upon yourself - you can select feats as freely as you desire. Same with skills. You lose no spell progression and throughout 20 levels you get five bonus feats. Your familiar gets all of the important abilities. Why isn't that optimal? Who says you have to force yourself into a Prestige Class to make an optimal wizard? Or any character for that matter?
Gnarl 03-11-06, 01:45 PM	Why not? Because a straight wizard will never be as brutal as an incantatrix.
Bonzai 03-11-06, 01:49 PM	Why not? You have no feat requirements to enforce upon yourself - you can select feats as freely as you desire. Same with skills. You lose no spell progression and throughout 20 levels you get five bonus feats. Your familiar gets all of the important abilities. Why isn't that optimal? Who says you have to force yourself into a Prestige Class to make an optimal wizard? Or any character for that matter? QFT Anyways, something I would like to add for a generalist wizard is two feats. Craft staff (PG), and Channel Charge (LEoF). Channel Charge allows you to sacrifice a spell slot, make a use magic devices check, and if successful, use a charged item without expending a charge. What does this mean to the Wizard? Well, with a wand with a healing spell on it, you can extend it's use for a very long time. However it's real power is when you make your own staffs. Create a staff and put all your utility spells on it. Now you have near sorcerer like versatility as to what you can cast, and your staffs will last a very long time. You can focus entirely on offense and defensive spell selection each day, and if you just happen to need a water breathing spell, stone to mud, etc... It's there, and you have a good chance of not blowing a bunch of cash. Of course you could always just buy a staff and save a feat. However it is nice to be able to customize and replace charges as needed.
MysticRhythms 03-11-06, 01:55 PM	Because a straight wizard will never be as brutal as an incantatrix. 1) The Incantatrix is a world-specific Prestige Class and also has some requirements of her own. She's also going to be rehauled when the new Forgotten Realms sourcebook comes out. Edit: My mistake. I never knew about the Player's Guide to Faerun. I only owned the original campaign setting material. I'd be curious to see how they've changed the Incantatrix. 2) It takes a long time before you even see benefits from Incantatrix. With good feat and skill selection, you can be quite powerful NOW with your wizard. 3) Metamagic feats are better used by sorcerors anyway and I don't believe you're giving the wizard enough credit for his bonus feats and familiar options. 4) You don't sacrifice BaB or Fort/Ref saving throws by staying in the Wizard class.
MysticRhythms 03-11-06, 01:58 PM	QFT Which means ... ???
pyro_cat 03-11-06, 08:27 PM	3) Metamagic feats are better used by sorcerors anyway and I don't believe you're giving the wizard enough credit for his bonus feats and familiar options. Somehow, I don't agree with this. Maybe better for a Sorceror with Arcane Preperation, but we're all about freeing up feat slots in this thread, and feats are a precious thing for a Sorceror. Familiars, to be powerful, require the spending of another feat. Otherwise, they just don't cut it in higher levels. As for bonus feats, the Incantatrix, as well as others (MotAO, for example) provide Metamagic feats as class features. Often nothing is lost, merely delayed one or two levels. So yes, I agree that while staying away from PrCs will possibly grant you access to SOME feats sooner, it's not worth it in the long run.
MysticRhythms 03-11-06, 08:37 PM	The only Metamagic feat that I see better in the hands of a wizard is Quicken. And Quicken doesn't come online until much later anyway. And in a lot of cases, surving for the levels BEFORE the Prestige Class are just as important as the latter levels of a character's career. Who wants to waste time qualifying for Incantatrix when you can make use of your own abilities now?
ancalimohtar 03-11-06, 08:39 PM	Guys, I think you're missing something. The dude has never played a mage before. Let him play a nice, simple character who also is good at what he does. Wiz/Loremaster is my suggestion. Other suggestions are welcome, but don't offer something like Wiz/MOTAO/Archmage/Geometer. That's not a clean-cut character for a novice player to play. And for the record, it is very difficult to argue that on average, a well-built straight wizard will be more powerful than a well-built one with Incantatrix10. Obviously it depends on how the DM runs the game, but on average, the Trix wins. There's no point in arguing this point on this thread. It's stupid, so let's drop it please. Craft Staff + Channel Charge sounds like a nice combination, but I don't know how feasible it is. First, you have to spend a slot one level higher. Second, to make a staff with enough spells on it to give you a noticeable amount of versatility, you would have to spend a splendid amount of gold and XP. I'm not sure that's worth it, particularly since the staff could be sundered instantly. By the way, QFT = quoted for truth
MysticRhythms 03-11-06, 08:44 PM	Guys, I think you're missing something. The dude has never played a mage before. Let him play a nice, simple character who also is good at what he does. Wiz/Loremaster is my suggestion. Other suggestions are welcome, but don't offer something like Wiz/MOTAO/Archmage/Geometer. That's not a clean-cut character for a novice player to play. That's why I advocated a straight Wiizard build. And for the record, it is very difficult to argue that on average, a well-built straight wizard will be more powerful than a well-built one with Incantatrix10. Obviously it depends on how the DM runs the game, but on average, the Trix wins. There's no point in arguing this point on this thread. It's stupid, so let's drop it please. Wow, that's a blanket statement and I don't find it a stupid argument grossly in favour of the Incantatrix. MAYBE at the highest levels there's an edge. But there are levels before 20. Secondly, most DMs outside of the Forgotten Realms would disallow the Prestige Class at the outset. It's rather arrogant of you to say "Incantatrix is better so shut up about it." It's an Optimization Forum. Arguments about what is "better" are definitely on topic here.
Deathson 03-11-06, 08:52 PM	If you /are/ in the Realms, you could make a fairly convincing argument for the incantrix with the feats from Lost Empires (To get back acess to that lost school) as a better generalist. If you're not, then don't worry about it. Have a blast with your normal wizard.
ancalimohtar 03-11-06, 09:04 PM	Wow, that's a blanket statement and I don't find it a stupid argument grossly in favour of the Incantatrix. MAYBE at the highest levels there's an edge. But there are levels before 20. Secondly, most DMs outside of the Forgotten Realms would disallow the Prestige Class at the outset. It's rather arrogant of you to say "Incantatrix is better so shut up about it." It's an Optimization Forum. Arguments about what is "better" are definitely on topic here.No, they're not. Learn to read. I didn't say the argument was stupid because one side wins. I said the argument shouldn't be on THIS THREAD, and that it would be STUPID to continue it on THIS THREAD. The kid wants a Generalist--why the HELL are we arguing the merits of Trix vs. straight wizard? This is exactly what I didn't want to happen. Dumb arguments about stupid topics that don't belong on this thread clogging up the thread. Go start a thread about the Wiz vs. Trix if you want to.
pyro_cat 03-12-06, 09:41 AM	To bring up an old thread... To be fair, it looks like this older thread was bumped up by someone other than the OP; someone who looks interested in complex builds. I mean, yes, for a simple build, you're right, ancalimohtar, but I think in general that some discussion is ok, even if people disagree. In my opinion; for the sake of everyone else interested in the thread, discussion should be encouraged, not attacked.
MysticRhythms 03-12-06, 12:26 PM	No, they're not. Learn to read. I didn't say the argument was stupid because one side wins. I said the argument shouldn't be on THIS THREAD, and that it would be STUPID to continue it on THIS THREAD. I was discussing the merits of a prestige class versus a build without a prestige class. This is exactly the forum for that type of discussion and it is relevant to the thread. If you'll notice, the originator of the thread specifically asked for builds not using any prestige classes. In all actuality, your suggestion of even going into Loremaster is probably not appropriate for the thread originator, but you posted it here anyway. As far as learning to read, I think I've got the skill down. The kid wants a Generalist--why the HELL are we arguing the merits of Trix vs. straight wizard? The originator of the thread stated he wanted an optimized wizard build without any prestige classes (perhaps you should reread the original message). From that initial post, a few responses came to light suggesting that avoiding prestige classes was a bad thing to do for an optimized wizard. I made my statements to refute that. If you want to play Thread Cop, perhaps you should respond to everyone who posted builds advocating prestige classes (which would include yourself) since the originator of the thread specifically asked they not be included. This is exactly what I didn't want to happen. Well, the person who actually started this thread didn't want suggestions including prestige classes, but you posted one anyway. I'm posting here to help the person who needed the help. I'm not here to make YOU happy with the thread's content. Dumb arguments about stupid topics that don't belong on this thread clogging up the thread. Go start a thread about the Wiz vs. Trix if you want to. Actually, if anything is clogging up the thread, it's the personal attacks you're making. My post was advocating the build of a straight wizard suggesting that using the abilities of its familiar, its extra bonus feats at high levels and the buildup of its BaB and "bad" saves are all good arguments to stay in the class. Pigeonholing one's character into a Prestige Class (especially a world-specific prestige class) takes away choices of skills and spells. I'm not saying that the newly gained abilities aren't worth it, but they're not worth it for EVERY wizard. A wizard who wants to craft items is not going to want to be an Incantatrix, for example. Also ... the original poster wanted a generalist wizard. Doesn't an Incantatrix have to sacrifice a key school of magic as a requirement? Don't you think that deters away from being a generalist wizard? I do.
ancalimohtar 03-12-06, 04:20 PM	If you'll notice, the originator of the thread specifically asked for builds not using any prestige classes. In all actuality, your suggestion of even going into Loremaster is probably not appropriate you should respond to everyone who posted builds advocating prestige classes (which would include yourself) since the originator of the thread specifically asked they not be included.the person who actually started this thread didn't want suggestions including prestige classes, but you posted one anywayI'm filled with gratitude that you would deign to repeat yourself three times for my sake, but really, it's not necessary. By the way, you have totally and completely missed the point of the last, oh, fifteen posts. This thread was started seven months ago by gNoLo, looking for, among other things, a build without prestige classes. gNoLo has no doubt moved on from his pursuit, and this thread was only bumped up recently by Gavinfoxx in THIS POST, WHICH CLEARLY IMPLIES PRESTIGE CLASSES ARE OKAY: To bring up an old thread... So what would the feat progression of a Sun Elf Elf Wizard Sub 1/ Wizard 4/ Mage of the Arcane Order 10/ Arch Mage 5 And does everyone agree that this is the ultimate "cast anything" generalist wizard?And then he REITERATES THAT HE IS NOT THE OP IN THIS POST:Remember guys -- I'm bumping an old post... I just want to know what a good non specialist wizard that can cast most any wiz/sorceror spell that doesn't give up any school of magic that would be great for a person's first time playing a wizard would be... you know, to get to know the spells and stuff......and then I replied and gave THIS REASONING FOR MY WIZ/LM BUILD:For your first time...So now, can we please stop this INANE discussion on the Trix, which clearly violates the "doesn't give up any school of magic" request by Gavinfoxxx, and instead focus on reasonable builds with nice learning curves? Christ why are people so defensive? Quit trying to argue everything. When you're wrong, you're wrong.
Eidolon Faer 03-13-06, 12:26 AM	Observations for a Wizardly introductory character: 1. You get Scribe Scroll for free. Use it. Especially at low levels. 2. Craft Wondrous Item is also basically mandatory, because of Headband of Intellect and Boccob's Blessed Book. You will get THOROUGHLY sick of spellbook expenses otherwise. 3. If you want a good Wizardly prestige class that doesn't have a steep learning curve, take Geometer from Complete Arcane. 4. Initiative is surprisingly important for Wizards. The Improved Initiative feat is an excellent choice. 5. Familiars are a subject of much debate. Some people don't take them at all, some people like them for roleplaying reasons. Everyone agrees that they're basically useless in combat, however, being too valuable and fragile to risk. Especially when Spectral Hand is level 2. 6. After that, it's a matter of filling your spellbook and being sneaky and creative with how you use your spells. This takes practice and study on the part of the player. Oh...and don't bother with Loremaster. It sucks. Mage of the Arcane Order is far better. If you're going to go after Archmage, pick up Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil on the way up. And only clueless munchkins take Incantatwink levels. Giving up a school of magic is for chumps.
Gavinfoxx 03-13-06, 01:10 AM	What about a hummingbird in one of those familiar pockets with improved initiative? Mmmm Dex + 8 + D20 init... Anyway, thanks for the help, Eidolon Faer!