Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ff6shadow 10-27-05, 08:05 AM	After a recent debate with my DM over reading with Darkvision (I won and got Rule 0ed), my current character in the campaign won't enter the Underdark. My party is going without me, so I'm running a different character for a while. After I threw a few suggestions out, I got laughed at for suggesting playing a Gnome. Always one to take a challenge, I'm dedicated to playing a Gnome. Need a warrior type, but I'm not really sure where to start with this one. Obviously need optimised for fighting under ground. Just looking for some ideas to start with. Stats 18, 18, 18, 18, 16, 16 I rolled extraordinarily well and am allowed to improt my stats from my other character, minus level bonuses. Other I have a free bonus feat above and beyond normal, gained at any level Books Complete Series Races of Stone Races of Wild Races of Destiny Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Magic of Faerun Draconomicon Libris Mortis Ebberon Campaign Setting (Not Artificer, was last character)
FriendlyBiscuit 10-27-05, 08:26 AM	Take at least a couple levels of the Occult Slayer, ESPECIALLY if your DM potentially is feeling vengeful and may still have a chip on his shoulder. DM: "Fort Save or Die!" You: "Ummm... Mind over Magic! Alright, Mr. Caster with a good Will save, YOU save or die!" Going for a warrior type, people will often default to fighter, but with your very nice spread of ability scores you should take a class with more diverse abilities. Depending on the flavor of the campaign, I'd recommend Paladin or Hexblade. They can benefit pretty well from pretty much every stat. Hexblade has less need for Wis and a bit more need for Dex... Paladin needs Wis for casting and will save, but will probably be wearing tank armor and therefore limited as far as Dex goes. Continuing with the "DM might be trying to kill you" theme, both classes have the ability to apply their Cha bonus to ALL saves. BOOM, +4, without a doubt put one of your 18s in Cha. The paladin can lay on hands, which is a good panic button tactic in any scenario, and smite evil will be handy in the Underdark. The Hexblade, when rolling a successful save for "Will half" or "Fortitude partial" type of saves, simply ignores that partial effect. Nice? Also, the Hexblade's Curse is an excellent way to tone down the power of your opponents; it has a high save DC and applies an across-the-board -2 to pretty much every roll your opponent makes. (not so effective if your DM's the cheatin type though) I have a lot more potential ideas for you, but we need to know what ECL your character would be. Don't sweat the race too much, being small is generally a good thing with the +1 to attacks and AC. If your DM throws a lot of grapples at you, maybe worry a bit, but there are plenty of feats that can help you out of this. Actually, if you're a hexblade (or only wearing light armor for any other reason), the PrC "reaping mauler" could help you out, too. SO, what level char you goin for?
ff6shadow 10-27-05, 08:34 AM	Sorry. Guess I did forget to mentions things. Not much worry about DM veangance, but he tough in general anyway, willing to fudge left and right to ensure a serious challenge with every battle. Also Building for ECL 12.
FriendlyBiscuit 10-27-05, 08:49 AM	If you're going for a warrior, but you have a nice wide swath of good abilities, I'd say from the books I have that you simply have to take paladin or hexblade. Everyone else who takes those classes always complains that they could be great "if only I could have afforded a better score in ___ ability!" How do you feel about starting from that base? And if we do so, would you lean more toward the Hexblade (who can be any alignment that's not good) or the Paladin (who must be lawful good)? You didn't put this on your list of allowed books, but if you don't like either idea, don't forget the variant paladins in Unearthed Arcana. They're basically the same thing as the regular paladin, except each paladin is a champion of one of the other "extreme" alignments: Paladin of Freedom (chaotic good), Paladin of Slaughter (chaotic evil), Paladin of Tyranny (lawful evil), or the standard Paladin of Honor (lawful good). Now that I think about it, another warrior-class that requires a decent spread of abilities is the Swashbuckler. Dex is essential for them, Cha is used in many abilities, they make great Int skill junkies, Con's HP is never a bad thing, Will is important for saves, and of course Str will apply to your damage rolls but not necessarily your attack rolls with this class. However, your role will be rather tightly defined in combat; you don't get the spells of Hex or Pally, the pet (mount or familiar), nor do you get the Hex's bonus feats. But, if you're looking for a "pure" warrior class that can shrug off the Gnome's weak Str and still do well, this'll be great for ya! So tell me which base class you like best and I'd be happy to Min/Max you, I'll even use your character as one of my gladiators in an upcoming tournament that my party is about to face. :D (you're at exactly the right ECL for it; handy that!)
Llochlyn 10-27-05, 09:00 AM	You're allowed Races of stone, so look at Blade Bravo, it's fun and quite an effective warrior type... but doesn't fit well in the underdark I must admit
Andreas0815 10-27-05, 09:03 AM	I would really play to the strength of your small build as a gnome. Be a mounted warrior in a dungeon. All you need is a medium sized animal with darkvision as your paladin mount and a lance and you are set to do imense damage on a charge (especialy with your insane amount of feats you get and your smite evil ability). Maybe paladin 6/kensai 2/Cavalier 10...
FriendlyBiscuit 10-27-05, 09:09 AM	Whether or not you take Paladin levels, your DM may also permit you to take halfling PrCs, such as Halfling Outrider. Cavalier and Halfling Outrider are pretty much equal, though. It depends on your style, and how tough the DM is on you. If your DM's a cruel overlord, the superior defense and versatility of the outrider may be your style, but he'll never match up to the attack and damage rolls of the cavalier.
DDogwood 10-27-05, 10:36 AM	A Gnome actually opens up a lot of possibilities, especially with those stats. Sticking with the "warrior-type" theme, here are some suggestions: Gnome Barbarian - This is the little guy who just won't go down. With Improved Toughness and a starting Con of 20, you could feasibly have 167 hit points at level 12, coupled with a decent AC and mobility. With a high Strength and Power Attack/Leap Attack, your Small weapons won't matter as much (the difference between a d12+30 and a d8+30 isn't that significant). Gnome Monk - again, the Gnome's biggest disadvantages are largely wiped out. Unarmed damage scales respectably, and the movement speed bonus means you will fight like Yoda. Tremendous hit points and a good AC help alleviate some of the Monk's weaknesses. Fighter/Mage/Giant Slayer - consider the presige class in conjunction with the ability to cast Reduce Person on yourself. As a Tiny warrior, your weapons won't be super powerful, but you can have a high enough Strength to counterbalance that. Furthermore, you can get some nice bonuses against any opponents who are at least 2 sizes bigger - which now includes Dwarves, Elves, and Humans. A smattering of illusion spells can be handy for any Gnome, as well.
FriendlyBiscuit 10-27-05, 11:20 AM	But those ability scores should not be wasted! That barbarian, or that monk, of yours is going to have at least 16 in Charisma... as a paladin or hexblade, he could be using that +3, or even +4, to ALL saves, on hex spell DCs, hex curse DC, pally healing, pally smite, and/or turn/rebuke undead. Or, with the swashbuckler, the Cha could go into bluff and diplomacy, each far more useful than mere intimidate. With the gnome, your one weakness is -2 to str. Well if you are the swash, you automatically get weapon finess free! So make str your "dump" stat... because you can apply your int bonus to damage rolls! (Insightful Strike)
ff6shadow 10-27-05, 11:28 AM	Yet another thing I forgot to include. Unearthed Arcana Is allowed, usings flaws (max 2) and Fractional BAB and Saves. Variant classes are also easy to swing for. Friendly Biscuit, wouldn't mind seeing your take on both the Paladin and the Hexblade. If it matters, party composition is a Cleric, Swasbuckler/Rogue/Dread Pirate, Half Dragon Dwarf Fighter, and a Wizard.
FriendlyBiscuit 10-27-05, 11:58 AM	str 14 with racial - no prob: insightful strike gives you int bonus to dmg rolls dex 18 - max this out: your AC, reflex, and all your attacks use it con 20 - maybe bump this up another +2 for the hell of it and nice HP int 18 - this gives you skill points AND weapon damage with class feature!!! wis 18 - leave this at 18, it shores up your weak save but isn't mad crucial cha 16 - useful for a few key skills Swashbuckler 8/occult slayer 4 or Swashbuckler 10/occult 2 You get Weapon Finesse free, and you get the benefits of the Dodge feat free, though you do not actually have the dodge feat. If you take it, yes, it stacks. Two class abilities in conjunction make strength far less important than to other warriors: weapon finesse makes Dex the modifier for ALL your weapon attack rolls (with appropriate weapons), and insightful strike stacks your int with your str bonus for damage rolls. Feats: Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus (spiked chain), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain), Improved Disarm, and whatever you want You control the battlefield. Your Occult Slayer levels allow you to reflect magic back on the caster, just like the spell turning spell. Actually, it's better than spell turning, because you can activate it as a free action in response to a spell, rather than casting it ahead of time. Your OS levels also beef up your weak Will save, boost your saves against all spells, and do extra damage to casters. So, this is how you control the casters on the battlefield. You control the melee part of the battlefield with your spiked chain; you get a +4 on the disarm attempt from your feat, an additional +2 as a property of the chain, plus your huge Dex attack roll. If you want to, you could instead take Improved Trip. Spiked chains can also make trip attempts, though they don't get the +2 bonus. I recommend either taking the Monkeygrip feat (so you can wield a Medium-sized weapon), or making your spiked chain Disarming. If you don't do either of these things, folks with Medium weapons will get a +4 on the opposed disarm rolls. Which brings me to items: Spiked chain with the best bonuses you can afford, possibly including the Disarming magical property from CW Kukri with the Last Resort property from CW, for the occasional unfortunate grapple If you like having two different main weapons available to you, grab a Keen rapier, and throw any other bonuses you may want on there As far as armor goes, you can afford to spend more on your weapons because your armor will be less and less important as your dex and your class dodge bonuses improve. To keep life simple and leave room for higher and higher dex, just get padded armor with whatever your favorite magical properties are. Instead of changing out armor every time your dex improves, you'll be able to keep spending your money on additional improvements to your existing weapons and armor. Your ability to disarm, to resist spells, and to even occasionally reflect spells will be far more important than your AC. Oh, and your really high HP from Con won't hurt either. I'll make the Hex and the Pally next. If you've already made a decision with someone else's class, it's okay, I need to build some level 12 enemies for my party anyway.
FriendlyBiscuit 10-27-05, 11:59 AM	Haha, just read your post after posting my swash. Well I guess you've already got one, but like I said, I gotta do this anyway. I think I'll do pally next so that I don't have to do two Dexx-y characters in a row. Edit: I don't usually have flaws or fractional BABs/saves, so you'll have to figure those out yourself. All I say is, I recommend taking them, because free feats are nice to have, especially gained in munchkiny ways like flaws that don't really hurt you. :D
ff6shadow 10-27-05, 12:13 PM	As I mentioned the DM is usually pretty tough, but lets powerful variants slide easily. Give me one heck of a feat advantage, making Prestige qualifying alot easier. And definetely on flaws. Usually weaken my best sav and lose 1 point of AC flaw wise. Has never acvtualy hurt me.
FriendlyBiscuit 10-27-05, 12:40 PM	The paladin has three options, but choosing between them is not too complicated. The first two require the same stats: Str 16 - with racial penalty. This is your most important stat to improve. Dex 16 - opposite to the other two classes, the defense is in your armor Con 20 - HP never hurts Int 16 - Skills? Why? YOU'RE HERE TO SMITE, NOT THINK! ;) Wis 18 - Not really needed, but nice. 18 Wis gives you just as many extra spells as 16 Wis, but for those that have a save DC, it's increased by one. You could make Wis low in exchange for dex or wis being higher, but it doesn't make sense from a roleplaying perspective. Also will saves are slightly more important than reflex saves. Cha 18 - Your class abilities will rock hard. OPTION 1: You could take all 12 levels in paladin to get the most out of your class abilities. It doesn't matter if you pursue Honor, Freedom, Tyranny, or Slaughter... all of your abilities are powered by the same stats. This way, you'll wind up with weaker saves, but strong class abilities and spellcasting. Don't pass it off just because of the saves; as you know, you get a bonus to ALL your saves equal to your Charisma mod, which will be higher than that of any paladin I've ever seen played in a normal game. Since there's no prestige class to worry about, you can take any feats you want. Get the heaviest armor with the best bonuses you can find, get a good lance and good shield, and finally the best one-handed weapon you like. ARMOR YOUR MOUNT. Very nasty surprise if they die unexpectedly. OPTION 2: Take a number of levels in Cavalier. This will increase the relative importance of your mount, your ride skill, and your weapons, while decreasing the importance of your paladin abilities. It's a very even trade, IMO, just balance out however many levels in each class as you want. You'll get better will saves as a cavalier, and your mounted charge will become wicked. Your already weak spellcasting will be practically crippled, and most of your supernatural abilities will be fairly weakened as well. Note: your mounted charges will be utterly wicked. You'll need the Feats: spirited charge, weapon focus lance, mounted combat, and ride-by-attack. I'd also recommend Power Attack and Greater Weapon focus if you can fit em. Same equipment as the first paladin. ARMOR YOUR MOUNT. OPTION 3: Take a number of levels in Halfling Outrider, if your DM will let you. This will increase the relative importance of your mount, your ride skill, and your dex mod, while decreasing the importance of your paladin abilities and your str mod. It's still good to have a lance with at least +1 on it; double damage never hurts, especially with Power Attack. However, you're going to also want a bow of some sort with frost, shock, and/or flaming, maybe a ranged-only magical property or two, and a quiver of +2 ammo for big guys and a quiver of regular ammo for mooks. You'll only want to wear a chain shirt, because you can do some seriously cool tricks with successful Ride checks. You only "need" the feats Mounted Combat and Mounted Archery, but you may also want Skill Focus (ride) and a bunch of archery-improving feats. You won't match the cavalier for raw damage, nor the paladin for supernatural powers, but you'll get an extra dodge bonus to AC, Alertness free, lots of handy riding tricks, a good Reflex save and eventually even Evasion. Think of the first option as a cleric, the second option as a fighter, and this option as a ranger or rogue. ARMOR YOUR MOUNT. I usually get it with Spell Resistance if I can afford it. If you use option 3, you'll want to change it to Dex 18 - for ranged attacks, AC, and skill checks Which ability score you lower, I'll leave up to you. For all three options, look up the better mounts in the DMG. They all (as far as I know) are invariably better than a simple warhorse with extra HD. If your DM is probably going to make spaces cramped in the Underdark, grab a Medium-size mount, but if you think that it won't be a problem, there's nothing in the rules that says you can't use a Large or larger mount, and they are usually tougher, stronger, and in general just better. Except, of course, when it comes to cramped spaces.
Mistwell 10-27-05, 12:58 PM	I'd consider the Favored Soul. With such high ability scores, you can actually have both a high charisma AND high wisdom, to go along with your strength and con scores. With great saves, and some great buff spells, you will fight better than a fighter. Of course, if you can pass on the fighter-concept, I'd consider ShadowCraft Mage from Races of Stone. A great prestige class for a gnome wizard or sorceror or bard.
FriendlyBiscuit 10-27-05, 01:45 PM	Ah, we finally arrive at my favorite: the Hexblade! I'm really going to enjoy throwing this at whichever player randomly has to fight it. If I'm lucky I'll finally get an inconspicuous chance to kill off that damned kineticist. Just like the paladin, this class is diverse enough by itself that you could easily take all 12 levels in this class alone. You'd just barely make it to the level of "Aura of Unluck 1/day". It's a fancy name for your basic 20% miss chance, and for you it will last 7 rounds. Good against a large band of mooks with a mean streak of archery that's whittling away at your HP. Two possibles: Str 16 | Dex 18 | Con 20 | Int 16 | Wis 16 | Cha 18 Str 14 | Dex 18 | Con 20 | Int 18 | Wis 16 | Cha 18 I would normally go for the second build and take the Weapon Finesse feat, but not in your party. Your party has plenty of characters that can act as the face, which means you don't have to spend skill points on any skill that you don't want to. For RP reasons, I like to treat Bluff and Intimidate as mutually exclusive. You don't need to lie to someone who's afraid of you, hehe. However, if you were the only heavy Cha-build in the group, they'd all but beat you senseless if you didn't take bluff. Hexblade maxing... um, this could take years. The basics: you are a full BAB character, designed primarily to pierce, slash, shoot, and bludgeon your enemies to death. This is easy to forget. Spend money on weapons, armor, and stat-enhancing items just like any good warrior would. Whether you focus on melee, ranged, or both is up to you. There are some very cool spells on your list, but most of them relate to combat for a reason: any spell which doesn't is viable only in certain scenarios, whereas a spell that helps you in your physical combat will always have a use. Feel free to enjoy what few options you have on your spell list, but it's best to make sure that roughly half of them are applicable in any old physical combat scenario. One of these good ones is Fortify Familiar; any time I use a hexblade as an NPC I take the Fortify Familiar spell if I'm high enough level, and I take the Improved Familiar feat. The inherent familiar ability to use their master's BAB was once underestimated, but that was because wimpy sorcerors and wizards were using it. Your familiar can be very powerful, especially if your DM allows magic items to fit on some places. (I allow cloaks, shirts, circlets/crowns but not helmets, boots, belts, bracers) Your curse is also handy when you're fighting one or only a few enemies, especially if you cast it before you close to melee range. A flat -4 to pretty much all their rolls is going to cause your DM a little frustration until she gets used to it. I really don't like any of the PrCs in CW for the Hexblade. I don't have CD, but in CA there are a few that are cool and fit in well with the hexblade's flavor. Acolyte of the Skin allows you to literally wear demons; I wouldn't say its an overpowered class like say, the dervish or the initiate of the sevenfold veil, but it's very cool, and includes inherent bonuses to your already impressive ability scores. I would do Hex 7/AotS 5 if I could, but unless you take a feat to add Knowledge (the planes) to your class list, you'll have to be 8/4 or 9/3. You still get Greater Hexblade's Curse, and you'll get your +2 con from the demon's skin in a level or two. Suel Arcanamach fits in with the "tough arcanist" parts of the Hexblade class, but it's nevertheless a pretty odd fit. You're either going to have to deal with arcane spell failure for arcanamach spells, or start out in lighter armor. The Green Star Adept is a similar "toughened mage" class style, but the entrance requirements will cost you a lot of cross-class skill points. It's not as "cool", but it seems to be a slightly more powerful class. Not only that, but you can take it as early as 6th level. I'd say 7/5, 6/6, or 5/7 are all great choices; both classes have great abilities. Taking any of these PrCs will of course drop your (and your familiar's) BAB a little, but not by much.
FriendlyBiscuit 10-27-05, 01:47 PM	I'd consider the Favored Soul. With such high ability scores, you can actually have both a high charisma AND high wisdom, to go along with your strength and con scores. With great saves, and some great buff spells, you will fight better than a fighter. Of course, if you can pass on the fighter-concept, I'd consider ShadowCraft Mage from Races of Stone. A great prestige class for a gnome wizard or sorceror or bard. A good point is made here. I, of course, didn't think about CD because it's the one Complete book I never bothered to get. Let us know what you end up doing, and how it turns out, k?
Andreas0815 10-27-05, 02:01 PM	Hmm, another thing came to mind, how about a little crazy gnome who likes to play with fire? Hexblade 3/Psychic Warrior 2/Pyrokineticist 7 7d6 ranged touch bolts of fire, a Fire wip and you can set your weapons aflame...
Eidolon Faer 10-27-05, 02:42 PM	Hrm...Gnome Hexblade. Let's not forget that Hexblade gets quite a selection of Illusion spells, including Phantom Assailant, Disguise Self, Mirror Image, Phantasmal Killer... All potentially quite nice with the Gnomish boost to Illusion save DC's. ...and then there's Hound of Doom...
Zathyr 10-27-05, 02:48 PM	Too bad BoED isn't on that list. A Champion of Gwynharwyf would've been a fun option. Anyways, I would consider something slightly roguish, taking advantage of Underfoot Combat and Counfound the Big Folk feats in RotW. If you're not limiting yourself to the standard PHB gnome, a whisper gnome would make a good fit for it.
ff6shadow 10-29-05, 08:46 AM	Update. I'm definetely am playing a Whisper Gnome. My DM almost banned it flat out. Couldn't beleive it didn't Have a level adjustment. Also, I found out some details about what the group did the day I couldn't make it. The party composition is also changed significantly. We now have a Swasbuckler/Rogue/Dread Pirate, a Human Wizard, a Halfling Warlock/Rogue who is being permitted to qualify for Arcane Trickster, a Barbarian Frenzied Berserker ( :yuck: ) and either an Elven Stormlord or a Dwarf Reapping Mauler. Turns out the DM wants to power the group up substantially. After placing my stats I have the following. My DM made some adjustments to equal something the party picked up. Str 17 Dex 20 Con 20 Int 17 Wis 17 Cha 20 We get a bonus feat above and beyond the usual, I still haven't placed my level up attributes, I'm getting Leadership for free, and we can Gestalt at level 10+, applying only to levels 10+, so no retroactive craziness. Finally, my DM has allowed me to take Halfling Prestige classes, since my backstory has me growing up with halflings. Needless to say, I'm mindblown at the insanity of my DM. Nonne the less, I also have a few new options. I'm willing to go anyway with this now, even thinking of a dedicated magic user, or a shape changer. The sky is the limit with my DM's craziness
Mistwell 10-29-05, 05:16 PM	I'm willing to go anyway with this now, even thinking of a dedicated magic user, or a shape changer. The sky is the limit with my DM's craziness Then check out this thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=290914
tsuyoshikentsu 10-29-05, 06:20 PM	That's it. You qualify for Halfing prestiege classes with that DEX and CHA? This looks like a job for... SUPERMOUNT!!!! (I'm going to give you the build all the way to level 19 -- there's one level open. This is my own development of the Supermount build.) Whisper Gnome Paladin 5/Beastmaster 1/Wild Plains Outrider 3/Halfling Outrider 10/X 1 HIT DICE: lvls 1-6 d10, lvls 7-9 d8, lvls 10-19 d6 ALIGNMENT: Lawful Good SKILLS: lvls 1-5 2+INT, lvls. 6-19 4+INT (IE: 1-5 5, 6-19 7) LEVEL BAB FOR REF WIL ABILITIES Pal01 +01 +02 +00 +00 Flaw (Inattentive), Flaw (Vulnerable), Feat (Skill Focus [Handle Animal]), Feat (Mounted Combat), Feat (Mounted Archery), Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day Pal02 +02 +03 +00 +00 Divine Grace, Lay on Hands Pal03 +03 +03 +01 +01 Feat (Track), Aura of Courage, Divine Health Pal04 +04 +04 +01 +01 Ability Score Increase, Turn Undead Pal05 +05 +04 +01 +01 Smite Evil 2/day, Mount BsM01 +06 +06 +03 +01 Feat (Dragon Steed), Animal Companion, Wild Empathy WPO01 +07 +08 +03 +01 Animal Companion, Ride Bonus, Wild Plains Stalker WPO02 +08 +09 +03 +01 Ability Score Increase, Wild Plains Swiftness WPO03 +09 +09 +04 +02 Feat (Devoted Tracker), Wild Plains Offensive HOR01 +10 +09 +06 +02 Mount, Ride Bonus, Alertness HOR02 +11 +09 +07 +02 Defensive Riding HOR03 +12 +10 +07 +03 Ability Score Increase, Feat (Natural Bond), Unbroken Charge HOR04 +13 +10 +08 +03 Stand on Mount HOR05 +14 +10 +08 +03 Leap from the Saddle HOR06 +15 +11 +09 +04 Feat HOR07 +16 +11 +09 +04 Ability Score Increase, Evasion HOR08 +17 +11 +10 +04 Full Mounted Attack HOR09 +18 +12 +10 +05 Feat HOR10 +19 +12 +11 +05 Quick Turn XXXXX +XX +XX +XX +XX XXX In order to qualify for the PrCs, divide your ranks evenly between Handle Animal, Listen, Ride, Spot, and Survival. Yes, I know most of those are cross-class, but you'll end up qualifying anyway. Yes, Inattentive does kill your racial modifiers. Sorry. Okay, here's the idea of this build: by the end of the day, you end up with a dragonnel cohort. Well, not cohort. Paladin mount. And he's your animal companion, too. And, oh yeah, because of the way the classes stack, in addition to Natural Bond, at level 19 he's got the highest category of abilities for both. Your character isn't too shabby, either. 1st level paladin spells, full BAB, no penalties for any kind of mounted combat, a bunch of mounted combat abilities, and a Ride check through the roof. There are two open feats; depending on your preference, take Ride-by Attack or some archery feats. Now... go forth and ride, young gnome. (Note: this build is only a Whisper Gnome for the purposes of this guy's campaign; in any other, it'd be a halfling of some kind.) Sources: Inattentive flaw: Unearthed Arcana, pg. 91 Vulnerable flaw: Unearthed Arcana, pg. 91 Dragon Steed feat: Draconomicon, pg. 105 Beastmaster: Complete Adventurer, pg. 26 Wild Plains Outrider: Complete Adventurer, pg. 92 Devoted Tracker feat: Complete Adventurer, pg. 108 Halfling Outrider: Complete Warrior, pg. 38 Natural Bond feat: Complete Adventurer, pg. 111
ff6shadow 10-29-05, 08:46 PM	Yeah, I actually posted in the Supermount thread. Problem is, which I forgot to mention, the party has an evil PC, making a paladin a serious problem for running.
TwistedShadow 10-29-05, 09:19 PM	With the inclusion of complete series and races books, look into this combination for a front line fighter gnome character. Whisper Gnome (races of stone) These guys are stealth monsters! (they get a +8 to Hide before Dex or skill ranks) Look first at classes like scout or Swashbuckler from the complete series since they focus on your strengths such as Dex and mobility in bad terrain. both of which are very important in underdark. also investing a few levels in rogue to get a little bit of sneak attack is a good idea too. match that with the improved feign feat and you can be laying on a pretty decent hurting on enemies. favor hit and run tactics too as they work more to your favor, so tumbling about the battle field to keep enemies off balance can be very useful. just look into that race varient and the classes and find the balance that works for you
Timlagor 10-29-05, 09:20 PM	(I don't know about Gestalt so no advice there) I don't see how you can resist asking for the Wizard/Ur-Priest/MT. (probably with Monk 1 for the saves) Your party is nor seriously lacking in the Divine department so you really should be looking at some sort of CoD. Ur-Priest is utterly wrong and you are starting just high enough level to avoid the short pain there is. The one caveat is that your 20s are in the wrong place but even with 17s starting in your casting stats this will be crazy-powerful [and it sounds like your DM will let you move them].
tsuyoshikentsu 10-30-05, 03:49 AM	Yeah, I actually posted in the Supermount thread. Problem is, which I forgot to mention, the party has an evil PC, making a paladin a serious problem for running. But if you're using Unearthed Arcana, that shouldn't be a problem... none of the PrCs or feats have alignment prereqs, so you could be, oh, a paladin of slaughter (CE variant) and still do this.
Un-dead 10-30-05, 04:35 AM	Is it possible to be a human, not a gnome to multiclass without penalties? I would play Paladin of Tyranny 6/Hexblade 2/Marshal 1/Ur-Priest 1/Bone Knight 10 to get benefit of every stat. Go 18 Charisma for Divine feats, +8 on all saves and neat Marshal's aura. Go 18 Strength and smash their skulls. Go 18 Wisdom and get amazing spellcasting. Go 18 Constitution for extra health.
ff6shadow 10-30-05, 07:21 AM	Alright, Paladin is out. My DM is too 2nd edition-ish, won't allow Paladin variants, and intends toenforce an extremely strict paladin code. Un-dead, I don't have acces to the Miniatures Handbook for Marshal, and where would I find Bone Knight?
tsuyoshikentsu 10-31-05, 02:43 AM	Un-Dead's got the same problem I do... variants. Are you really, REALLY positive that this alignment thing would be a problem?
Un-dead 10-31-05, 05:29 AM	Un-dead, I don't have acces to the Miniatures Handbook for Marshal, and where would I find Bone Knight? You can find Bone Knight in Five Nations. I really love this prestige: adventages d10 hp immunities of undeads :dancin: spellcasting progression Special Mount progression own undead army no aligment restrictions and no code of conduct retains all Paladin's abilities (Divine Grace, lay on hands,...) some cool Cha-based abilities and at last but not at least FLAVOUR drawbacks average BAB poor skills and skill list region restriction As for the Marshal, you can substitute him with another level of Hexblade to get Mettle ability. But you won't take full adventage of it, because this build is already immune to nearly all spells with Fortitude saves.
Medicelious-Melharmonac 10-31-05, 09:15 AM	Yeah, I actually posted in the Supermount thread. Problem is, which I forgot to mention, the party has an evil PC, making a paladin a serious problem for running. Will he allow Unearthed Arcana? You could go Paladin of Slaughter or Tyranny. LE and CE variants of Paladin.
ff6shadow 10-31-05, 09:28 AM	I mentioned in an earlier post. He denied Paladin variants, and stated that he will strictly enforce the 2nd edition Paladin code, plus some minor additions to it of his own. Sucks, but at least I was warned before I made the character.