Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jermin 03-10-06, 08:49 AM	Exactly that... I was originally thinking of Half-Ogre, from Savage Species... but now the race is LA+2 so it's kinda out of the question... too much LA for a Half-Dragon I thought of Goliath and maybe Half-Giant, but I don't know if their "Powerfull Build" allows the benefit of having wings if you're a Half-Dragon... Any other ideas? If possible only use "official" races, and no Dragonlance specific ones, my DM didn't like em Thanks in advance
Ivarrius 03-10-06, 08:57 AM	why do you need to be Half-dragon? If you go with Half Giant, or even half ogre, you can go with Dragon Disciple, and get the template without LA, and with BAB and HP. I am assuming however, that you considered this and looking to make a particular build.
Tweedledope 03-10-06, 09:03 AM	There is a Half Minotaur template from Dragon #313 that moves all medium sized creatures to large size for a +1 LA. -=TD=-
Jermin 03-10-06, 09:19 AM	I'll look for that issue of dragon magazine, thanks. About Dragon Disciple... no thanks, having to waste a level in bard or sorcerer to enter a 10 level class to get an LA+3 template is not a good tradeoff the way I see it.
runestar 03-10-06, 09:28 AM	Agreed. I would rather take the half-dragon template and 7 lvs in a class/prc that actually does something over the DD prc.
hogarth 03-10-06, 09:29 AM	I don't think there are many Large creatures with +0 or +1 LA. You could try a Maug (from Fiend Folio) with the Incarnate Construct template (from Savage Species), but I don't know how you can get the Half-Dragon template in there, too.
Reinhart 03-10-06, 09:33 AM	First, you don't have to waste a level on bard or sorcerer to qualify for Dragon Disciple. Take hexblade for four levels instead. That is, if you can live with the "any non-good" aspect of the class. Second, I think you're up the creek. There aren't many low LA no-HD creatures that are large and worth considering. Funny that you said "No DragonLance" since most of those races aren't very powerful but it is the one setting where Half-Ogre is an encouraged player race. (Since there're no orcs in DragonLance.) If your DM rules that Goliath's powerful build qualifies you as Large for template purposes . . . then dump Goliath and make a Human with the Jotunbrud racial feat. It's similar to powerful build but I think it doesn't let you weild larger weapons. Then you're "large" with no Level Adjuster.
Ivarrius 03-10-06, 09:57 AM	I'll look for that issue of dragon magazine, thanks. About Dragon Disciple... no thanks, having to waste a level in bard or sorcerer to enter a 10 level class to get an LA+3 template is not a good tradeoff the way I see it. Battle Sorcerer? Also, Its not a wasted PRC. It has d12 for HP, a +7 BAB, and you get wings regardless of size. Also, with the increase to str, int, and con, I dont see how 10 levels in this class is a bad thing, ESPECIALLY if you are going to the +3LA template anyway. I suppose it is all in how you look at it.
widow 03-10-06, 10:21 AM	I always liked the Anthropomorphic baleen whale from savage speices. It has no level adjustment, but 3 racial HD. With the half-dragon those would all be dragon hit dice. Also it gets +20 (+36 with half dragon) to stats, has a natural armor of 9 (13 with half dragon), and has a tail attack. You will end up with 3 hd that give full BAB, all good saves, and 8 skills per level. It in not the lowest ECL, but it has no LA adjustment. I find this more useful as a large creature because you dont want any more LA adjustment with the 3 from the dragon already.
hork 03-10-06, 10:46 AM	Baleen whale is broken. Heck in an indirect way wizards even says so (pg 14 dmg): Making Mistakes A magic item that allows the character to move through walls unhindered, giving them easy access to all sorts of places you do not want them to go (at least without great effort), is a mistake. A 4th-level spell that kills multiple foes with no saving throw is a mistake. A race without a level adjustment that has bonuses of +4 to Strength and Dexterity is a mistake. Your best bets for large (that aren't broken) are minatour, ogre, or centaur. Minatour you get 7 monstrous humanoid levels which translates to +7BA, and good fort and ref saves. Ogre, you get 4 giant levels which translates to +3BA and only good fort saves. Both minatour and ogre you get a 10' reach, combine that with spiked chain and you can hit anything from 0' to 20' from you. Centaur has the best overall bonuses compared to the other two (you don't get smacked down in the mental stats areana), but it only has a 5' reach. If you really want wings or a breath weapon then do dragon born of Bahamut. Though you only get to select one or the other. The breath weapon from dragon born is beter than half dragon because the dc is based on your HD, instead of your racial HD. If you want to go to a LA +3 then add on draconic - +2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha. Ogre+draconic will give you the strongest 10' reaching large sized character with a LA +3. If you add in baleen whale (only a 5' reach from what I can tell) and don't consider it broken then that is your best bet.
Khazra Reborn 03-10-06, 11:00 AM	OMG no! nver ever take that god damn stupid half dragon template. Hexblade4 gets acess to dragon dsciple aswell as the pretty damn powerful mettle ability. half minotaur changeling hexblade4/warshaper3/dragon disciple10/exotic weapon master2 is a nice little build which is very powerful in melee. It has: +30str,+10con (included these only as i felt they were the relevant stats) 10D10, 10D12 HD full BaB Mettle strong will and fort saves (the 2 that matter ;) ) 19BaB (lost 1 dor half minotaur) 15ft reach wings
hork 03-10-06, 11:04 AM	where is half minotaur from.
Tweedledope 03-10-06, 11:08 AM	There is a Half Minotaur template from Dragon #313 that moves all medium sized creatures to large size for a +1 LA. -=TD=- where is half minotaur from. Seriously.
Ivarrius 03-10-06, 11:27 AM	OMG no! nver ever take that god damn stupid half dragon template. Hexblade4 gets acess to dragon dsciple aswell as the pretty damn powerful mettle ability. half minotaur changeling hexblade4/warshaper3/dragon disciple10/exotic weapon master2 is a nice little build which is very powerful in melee. It has: +30str,+10con (included these only as i felt they were the relevant stats) 10D10, 10D12 HD full BaB Mettle strong will and fort saves (the 2 that matter ;) ) 19BaB (lost 1 dor half minotaur) 15ft reach wings How can you have Full BAB, When both DD and HexBlade are NOT full BAB classes? The extra strength is great for both damage and strike bonuses, but you don't have a full BAB. That said, I still like DD over Half-dragon Template. D12's for a tank is so nice!
Lilt 03-10-06, 11:41 AM	I'd personally say stick with the half-ogre. That's only 1 more level adjustment, and it's a fairly effective race in the first place. Exactly why is a total of +5LA out of the question but +4 not? Anthromorphic Baleen Whale or Half-Minotaur are good choices if your DM allows un-updated 3.0 material, not all do though.
PhaedrusXY 03-10-06, 11:46 AM	How can you have Full BAB, When both DD and HexBlade are NOT full BAB classes?Go look at Hexblade again... I have an idea. Take this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7160878&postcount=7), and add half-dragon onto it. :D Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7163997&postcount=16) is a summary of what you'd get (without the half-dragon stuff). You'd only have a LA of +2, and 3 racial hit dice.
Ivarrius 03-10-06, 11:48 AM	Go look at Hexblade again... I am at work, don't have access to the books. But either way, regardless of whether or not Hexblade is Full BAB, DD is not. so the build still wouldn't be full BAB.
Khazra Reborn 03-10-06, 11:53 AM	How can you have Full BAB, When both DD and HexBlade are NOT full BAB classes Sorry messed up on DD...then again, so did you on hexblade :P Eitherway, it gets BaB16 which means you still get 4 attacks. That said, I still like DD over Half-dragon Template. D12's for a tank is so nice! Yeah...anythings better then the 3 levels of no HD that comes with 0LA ;) Thats a lot less HP considering the low +2con bonus you get out of it.
hork 03-10-06, 11:53 AM	I'd personally say stick with the half-ogre. That's only 1 more level adjustment, and it's a fairly effective race in the first place. Exactly why is a total of +5LA out of the question but +4 not? Anthromorphic Baleen Whale or Half-Minotaur are good choices if your DM allows un-updated 3.0 material, not all do though. Half-Ogre is +2 LA (Races of Destiny).
Lilt 03-10-06, 12:22 PM	Half-Ogre is +2 LA (Races of Destiny).I know. I'm just asking why it's not worth it at +2LA compared to the +1 LA it used to be. For the amount of ownage that a half-ogre can dish-out, I think it's certainly worth +2LA, perhaps even +3. I used to have a half-ogre monk in a game I played, played from 2nd level using the rules for powerful races at 1st level in the PGtF, and it rocked dispite its low number of HPs. The other options that are being considered (half-giant or warforged) are +1s, and I personally think that the player's better-off going the whole hog with Half-Ogre. Half-Ogre gives you the reach and a very respectable strength modifier, which is worth the difference of +1LA if you ask me.