a halfling and his dog [Archive] - Wizards Community

a halfling and his dog [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Angus Cotton
12-12-05, 09:51 PM I had been discussing with friends about the prospect of making a halfling dog rider. The idea was that a halflinf riding a trickled out wardog could actually take his mount just about anywhere a normal warrior would go, even into the depths of a dungeon crawl. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of mounted combat feats out there that I have found, cept for the 5 in the PH. What I want to do is make a halfling dog rider who:

A) is a MELEE fighter...meaning he can fight from his mount anywhere...none of this arrow shooting business, though spells to augment the melee might be acceptable.
B) has a tough dog that wont die in the first attack cause the hallfing has taken his mount into melee range.

Can ya give me some ideas or feats or PrCs that might help this (I didn't think the Halfling Outrider) was appropriate with what I was trying to do? I was thinking just a paladin with a wardog and heavy barding, a light lance and a shield--give him Mounted Combat, Ride-by-Attack, and Spirited Charge (I nixed Trample), and possibly the horse archery feat just in case I use a short bow--all in my progression to level 20. I still need lots of ideas. or maybe someone has done this before? If so, link plz.

Thanks
catharz
12-12-05, 09:54 PM Heh. One word: "Supermount."

Well, actually (IIRC) two words: Halfling Outrider.
Tempest Stormwind
12-12-05, 10:05 PM To elaborate (since I also support the Supermount! approach):

The iconic "Supermount" build is something like Paladin 5 / Beastmaster 2 / Halfling Outrider 10 / Wild Plains Outrider 3 with the Devoted Tracker feat.

Devoted Tracker lets you designate your special mount as your animal companion. Halfling Outrider levels stack with both effective Paladin AND effective Druid levels for the purposes of mount and animal companions. The Natural Bond feat adds effective Druid HD, if you need them.

I would also recommend adding a Lancer approach here. Take Leap Attack. Due to the way that The Rules of The Game series of articles clarified movement, if you have Leap Attack and your mount jumps, the bonus kicks in. You have the feats to do it. Look what happens when you have a lance (preferrably a Valorous one -- double damage on charge for +1 weapon equivalent, Unapproachable East) that you use two-handed and your mount Leap Charges.

Most of this information is in Complete Adventurer. There are also other mounted combat options in Complete Warrior, if you're interested. I would also suggest checking my sig for the Compilation of Full Attack Chargers -- these may work better than Full Mounted Attack.
tsuyoshikentsu
12-12-05, 10:14 PM Darn. Catharz and Tempest beat me to it.

Go Supermount, seriously. To save you a little math, using the build Tempest posted above, your mount ends up with +20 HD, +22 NA, someting like +10 to STR, +6 to DEX, an INT of nine, seven bonus tricks, and a boatload of special abilities.
Skrimshaw
12-13-05, 08:50 AM Is there any way he can fit Wiz/Sorc/Hexblade levels in ?

With Improved Familiar you can get (BaB and caster level dependant)

blink bog, size Medium (CW)
or a
winter wolf size Large (CW)

Im not sure if the blink dog could take its rider with it while blinking , I know the MM says it cant take anyone with Dimention Door, but I'm not sure how the Share spell/Familiar abilities would come into play with that, if at all.
Guerron
12-13-05, 09:11 AM Hi there,
a while ago i made an gnome with a riding dog going the charge routine (what happened to th cavalier prc in 3.5?) and actually played it (so maybe this isn't the right board for the question to come :) ). In th first fight at the gaming table it occurred to me that i can't keep chargin one and the same opponent, since it is not possible to move away from your opponent and then turn around to charge him (again), or is it? That somehow lowers the benefit of a charge build.
Skrimshaw
12-13-05, 09:34 AM I think thats what Ride-by-attack does
Guerron
12-13-05, 09:51 AM I think thats what Ride-by-attack does

I don't think so:

Ride-By Attack [General]
Prerequisites

Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat.
Benefit

When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can’t exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack.

So you can continue moving. Enemy charges you on his turn and when its your turn again he stands next to you and you can' t charge.

Or is it a valid option to move and then use the remaining standard action to do a partial charge? :confused:
DDogwood
12-13-05, 10:06 AM So you can continue moving. Enemy charges you on his turn and when its your turn again he stands next to you and you can' t charge.

Or is it a valid option to move and then use the remaining standard action to do a partial charge? :confused:

No, the only time you can do a partial charge is if you only have a partial action (e.g. during a surprise round). A charge is designed to take up your entire turn.

On the other hand, you can sometimes get multiple charges against a single opponent if you can knock him prone... Overrun/Trample and Trip are good ways to do this.
Skrimshaw
12-13-05, 10:11 AM Your movement is going to likely be close to the 100 range (double mounts move) assuming you started at 30' from enemy, he shouldn't be able to charge you for 70' (assmuning 30' MR)

Mounts speed less than 50 and enemy greater than 30 and above won't work..

:confused: x2
Tempest Stormwind
12-13-05, 01:14 PM I ran into the same problem with the Lancer. I suggest carrying a Dorje of Hustle and taking some ranks in Use Magic Device. This should solve the issue.
MeleeMonster
12-13-05, 02:22 PM I am not familiar with the Dorje of Hustele, what's the source/effect?

With winged creaatures taking the wingover feat with them helps withthe tuen around next round to hit the same creature again. Also the feat that allows you to throw a weapon on a charge would be benficial as well.

Otherwise with the massive amount of damage froma lance baring spirited charge ride by attack character you really don't need a second attack.
MeleeMonster
12-13-05, 02:24 PM OP why are you ditching trample?

it is decent for an extra attack, though not very good by itself but it opens the door for cavalry charger feat and you can have som real fun with that feat when used properly - and take power attack if you can afford it - with a lance's x3 on a charge you effectivly have a 1:6 PA ratio.
Angus Cotton
12-13-05, 05:41 PM I nixed Trample as a feat to take cause it is a war dog build, not a war horse. When you use the Trample feat, you get a free claw attack if all the other factors succeed and a trip attack and the opponent cant avoid you. Being a war dog, it does no damage if it runs over anything (it doesnt have paw attacks, just bite). Also, I did some test runs on a war dog trying to trip larger opponents such as ogres and even humans, and though it seems possible, the math is not in favor of the dog. More than likely the dog will get tripped by the target (smashes into ogres shield and bounces off). So, this leaves the only real benefit of the trample feat is that the opponent can't avoid me if I do an Overrun maneuver. And with possible paladin levels and druid levels and PrCs where I willg et a limited number of feats, I have a hard time excepting Trample as an option for a feat. Though if yall guys come up with a really, REALLY strong dog that would make thawt trip attack worth it, I, of course, would consider its value again.

I will look into the Supermount progression in the complete adventurer and complete warrior and see what I see. Thanks for the help so far!
Tempest Stormwind
12-13-05, 05:57 PM Dorje = psionic equivalent of a wand.

Hustle = 2nd level psychic warrior power. Swift action, gain an extra move action.

Rules of the Game column illustrates that spell trigger (and power trigger, by extension) items activate as swiftly as their spells do.

Conclusion: After you charge, activate the dorje. Run away. Repeat.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Angus Cotton 12-12-05, 09:51 PM	I had been discussing with friends about the prospect of making a halfling dog rider. The idea was that a halflinf riding a trickled out wardog could actually take his mount just about anywhere a normal warrior would go, even into the depths of a dungeon crawl. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of mounted combat feats out there that I have found, cept for the 5 in the PH. What I want to do is make a halfling dog rider who: A) is a MELEE fighter...meaning he can fight from his mount anywhere...none of this arrow shooting business, though spells to augment the melee might be acceptable. B) has a tough dog that wont die in the first attack cause the hallfing has taken his mount into melee range. Can ya give me some ideas or feats or PrCs that might help this (I didn't think the Halfling Outrider) was appropriate with what I was trying to do? I was thinking just a paladin with a wardog and heavy barding, a light lance and a shield--give him Mounted Combat, Ride-by-Attack, and Spirited Charge (I nixed Trample), and possibly the horse archery feat just in case I use a short bow--all in my progression to level 20. I still need lots of ideas. or maybe someone has done this before? If so, link plz. Thanks
catharz 12-12-05, 09:54 PM	Heh. One word: "Supermount." Well, actually (IIRC) two words: Halfling Outrider.
Tempest Stormwind 12-12-05, 10:05 PM	To elaborate (since I also support the Supermount! approach): The iconic "Supermount" build is something like Paladin 5 / Beastmaster 2 / Halfling Outrider 10 / Wild Plains Outrider 3 with the Devoted Tracker feat. Devoted Tracker lets you designate your special mount as your animal companion. Halfling Outrider levels stack with both effective Paladin AND effective Druid levels for the purposes of mount and animal companions. The Natural Bond feat adds effective Druid HD, if you need them. I would also recommend adding a Lancer approach here. Take Leap Attack. Due to the way that The Rules of The Game series of articles clarified movement, if you have Leap Attack and your mount jumps, the bonus kicks in. You have the feats to do it. Look what happens when you have a lance (preferrably a Valorous one -- double damage on charge for +1 weapon equivalent, Unapproachable East) that you use two-handed and your mount Leap Charges. Most of this information is in Complete Adventurer. There are also other mounted combat options in Complete Warrior, if you're interested. I would also suggest checking my sig for the Compilation of Full Attack Chargers -- these may work better than Full Mounted Attack.
tsuyoshikentsu 12-12-05, 10:14 PM	Darn. Catharz and Tempest beat me to it. Go Supermount, seriously. To save you a little math, using the build Tempest posted above, your mount ends up with +20 HD, +22 NA, someting like +10 to STR, +6 to DEX, an INT of nine, seven bonus tricks, and a boatload of special abilities.
Skrimshaw 12-13-05, 08:50 AM	Is there any way he can fit Wiz/Sorc/Hexblade levels in ? With Improved Familiar you can get (BaB and caster level dependant) blink bog, size Medium (CW) or a winter wolf size Large (CW) Im not sure if the blink dog could take its rider with it while blinking , I know the MM says it cant take anyone with Dimention Door, but I'm not sure how the Share spell/Familiar abilities would come into play with that, if at all.
Guerron 12-13-05, 09:11 AM	Hi there, a while ago i made an gnome with a riding dog going the charge routine (what happened to th cavalier prc in 3.5?) and actually played it (so maybe this isn't the right board for the question to come :) ). In th first fight at the gaming table it occurred to me that i can't keep chargin one and the same opponent, since it is not possible to move away from your opponent and then turn around to charge him (again), or is it? That somehow lowers the benefit of a charge build.
Skrimshaw 12-13-05, 09:34 AM	I think thats what Ride-by-attack does
Guerron 12-13-05, 09:51 AM	I think thats what Ride-by-attack does I don't think so: Ride-By Attack [General] Prerequisites Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat. Benefit When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can’t exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack. So you can continue moving. Enemy charges you on his turn and when its your turn again he stands next to you and you can' t charge. Or is it a valid option to move and then use the remaining standard action to do a partial charge? :confused:
DDogwood 12-13-05, 10:06 AM	So you can continue moving. Enemy charges you on his turn and when its your turn again he stands next to you and you can' t charge. Or is it a valid option to move and then use the remaining standard action to do a partial charge? :confused: No, the only time you can do a partial charge is if you only have a partial action (e.g. during a surprise round). A charge is designed to take up your entire turn. On the other hand, you can sometimes get multiple charges against a single opponent if you can knock him prone... Overrun/Trample and Trip are good ways to do this.
Skrimshaw 12-13-05, 10:11 AM	Your movement is going to likely be close to the 100 range (double mounts move) assuming you started at 30' from enemy, he shouldn't be able to charge you for 70' (assmuning 30' MR) Mounts speed less than 50 and enemy greater than 30 and above won't work.. :confused: x2
Tempest Stormwind 12-13-05, 01:14 PM	I ran into the same problem with the Lancer. I suggest carrying a Dorje of Hustle and taking some ranks in Use Magic Device. This should solve the issue.
MeleeMonster 12-13-05, 02:22 PM	I am not familiar with the Dorje of Hustele, what's the source/effect? With winged creaatures taking the wingover feat with them helps withthe tuen around next round to hit the same creature again. Also the feat that allows you to throw a weapon on a charge would be benficial as well. Otherwise with the massive amount of damage froma lance baring spirited charge ride by attack character you really don't need a second attack.
MeleeMonster 12-13-05, 02:24 PM	OP why are you ditching trample? it is decent for an extra attack, though not very good by itself but it opens the door for cavalry charger feat and you can have som real fun with that feat when used properly - and take power attack if you can afford it - with a lance's x3 on a charge you effectivly have a 1:6 PA ratio.
Angus Cotton 12-13-05, 05:41 PM	I nixed Trample as a feat to take cause it is a war dog build, not a war horse. When you use the Trample feat, you get a free claw attack if all the other factors succeed and a trip attack and the opponent cant avoid you. Being a war dog, it does no damage if it runs over anything (it doesnt have paw attacks, just bite). Also, I did some test runs on a war dog trying to trip larger opponents such as ogres and even humans, and though it seems possible, the math is not in favor of the dog. More than likely the dog will get tripped by the target (smashes into ogres shield and bounces off). So, this leaves the only real benefit of the trample feat is that the opponent can't avoid me if I do an Overrun maneuver. And with possible paladin levels and druid levels and PrCs where I willg et a limited number of feats, I have a hard time excepting Trample as an option for a feat. Though if yall guys come up with a really, REALLY strong dog that would make thawt trip attack worth it, I, of course, would consider its value again. I will look into the Supermount progression in the complete adventurer and complete warrior and see what I see. Thanks for the help so far!
Tempest Stormwind 12-13-05, 05:57 PM	Dorje = psionic equivalent of a wand. Hustle = 2nd level psychic warrior power. Swift action, gain an extra move action. Rules of the Game column illustrates that spell trigger (and power trigger, by extension) items activate as swiftly as their spells do. Conclusion: After you charge, activate the dorje. Run away. Repeat.