Post/Author/DateTime	Post
parad0cz 02-15-07, 03:09 PM	Im sure this has een discussed before, but i just got to read through the book. Is Binder10/ScionofDan5/KoSS5 a decent build? Also, the text of KoSS seems to imply that after you bind your patron you cannot bind anyone else. Is this the case?
jameswilliamogle 02-15-07, 03:36 PM	This is not the case, and the build would work if you never went epic. If it did go epic, I'd remove SoD 1 and add Binder 1, just to hit BAB 16 and get that 4th attack per round going into epic. you can pick up the last SoD level later.
parad0cz 02-15-07, 03:56 PM	well, the latter is a relief! Hmm, your right, that would get the coveted 16... I guess this isnt a superbuild, but is it atleast pretty synergistic and potent? I mean, its great for flavor certainly.
jameswilliamogle 02-15-07, 04:08 PM	it would make a good face, knowledge man, and be good for a mobility based binder. i usually recomend SoD 4 / KoSS 5 / Binder 11 for all straight-binder based builds, as you get a bunch of cool dantalion related abilities, and only lose out immunity to energy drain and negative levels (which, admitedly, is cool, but your fort should be strong enough to alleviate it, and restorations are a minor expense at that point).
Pallin Rahl 02-15-07, 04:20 PM	Yeah... taking those PrCs does not cut you off from binding other vestiges. That being said, you lose a lot of the abilities of those PrCs if you fail to bind the relevant vestige. Let's say you make Dantalion your patron for KotSS - as you're taking Scion of Dantalion as well, anyway (two birds with one stone and all that). When not bound to Dantalion, you lose access to the majority of the abilities granted by your two PrCs. However, you are still free to bind another vestige in his place - if you feel it beneficial to do so. ...oh, and keep in mind - even when bound to Dantalion (in this example), you still have the ability to bind other vestiges as well (at the same time). By level 20, (given the above build and patron) you could be bound to Dantalion and still bind whatever 3 other vestiges you feel like. :) ...just clarifying a bit ;)
Iry 02-15-07, 04:28 PM	The answer to your primary question is that the Knight of the Sacred Seal effectively requires you to always pick the Vestige you chose or lose access to its class abilities. As such, you will want to talk to your DM about getting your chosen vestige changed from whatever it was prior to becomming a Scion of Dantalion to Dantalion himself. Some DMs may be sticklers because you can't bind Dantalion at 6th level, but most will accept that you once followed X and now follow Y. (This is just like the way a Cleric who loses faith and moves to another faith does not start over as a 1st level Cleric of the new faith.) Either way, Binder11/KoSS5/Scion4 gets you 16th bab, and the Binder 11 Bonus Feat. However, if you're a charisma based build then Scion 5 really does rock. If you're playing through those mid-levels, then you'll probably want to max Scion and worry about your BAB a little later.