Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Priest_of_Shaundakul 04-30-06, 02:38 AM	I am in the process of making a 4th level Paladin who serves the god Torm For feats, I have picked: Luck of Heroes (for the saves and to bolster my AC) I have two left, and I wanted to use my deity's favored weapon "Greatsword" --- Will not using a shield hurt much more, or can I make a viable paladin with a two handed weapon? Also, what would you recommend for the two other feats? Only Core, Complete and FR material allowed.
jstorrie 04-30-06, 02:46 AM	Well, True Believer and Weapon Focus: Greatsword would qualify you for Pious Templar, which is a solid melee prestige class (Complete Divine.) Or you could start on mounted feats, aiming for straight paladin or Cavalier (Complete Warrior.) Finally, you could take Power Attack and Improved Bull Rush, aiming for Shock Trooper. I think a solid general plan would be to aim for either Pal 5 / Ftr 2 / Hospitaler 1 / Cavalier xx (Shock Trooper and mounted combat) or Pal 4 / Ftr 2 / Pious Templar xx (Shock Trooper pure melee combat).
KnolanCross 04-30-06, 02:55 AM	I would suggest to get lvls in the divine crusader prestige class, so, weapon focus is a nice idea. For the feats, I would suggest power attack for a future divine might, also because you are going to use a two handed weapon. For shields, you can use a buckler at the begining if you need ac badly, i would recomend any item that permanently gives you the shield spell effect.* When you get enough money, get yourself a dancing large shield +3. *4000 gp, the price should be caster lvl * spell lvl * 2000 gp * modifier (2 for spells that last 1 min/lvl) = 1 * 1 * 2 * 2000 = 4000 gp.
PhoenixInferno 04-30-06, 03:05 AM	Cavalier is a campaign dependent choice - do you expect to be doing a lot of outdoors combat? If you don't see yourself fighting more than...1/3 to 1/2 your battles on horseback, you'll probably be better off with Pious Templar.
Nicholas the Paladin 04-30-06, 08:47 AM	I would get 1 level of cleric at first level (mutTiclassing with fighter and cleric is allowed by TORM anyway), this will give you access to turning and thus divine feats. cl1: LoH, power attack cl1/pal2: divine might after this go divine, the feats are worth it.
Votan 04-30-06, 12:52 PM	Luck of Heroes is a marginal feat for a Paladin as you already have saves boosted by a lot (I love the flavor for a Paladin but the mechanics are an issue). If you are going for a prestige class then look carefully at what options exist. In particular, note that Divine Crusader could be done with a couple of fighter levels worked in at the end [the trick with Divine Crusader, my favorite melee class exit, is getting a good domain focused on either buff or utility]. But, unless you are burning feats for this purpose, Divine Might is a "must have" Paladin feat. Sacred Healing does an amazing amount as well. Both run off turn undead and high charisma makignt he Paladin much less MAD and much more of a single statistic character class.
Priest_of_Shaundakul 04-30-06, 02:54 PM	Thanks for all the suggestions so far, and what does "MAD" mean? :confused:
Ashlan 04-30-06, 03:01 PM	Thanks for all the suggestions so far, and what does "MAD" mean? :confused: Multiple Ability Dependancy Ash
Sang-Drax 04-30-06, 03:06 PM	Thanks for all the suggestions so far, and what does "MAD" mean? :confused: Multiple Attribute Dependency
SpartanMD 05-01-06, 02:14 PM	I also would reccomend the power attack, divine might, weapon focus greatsword and true believer and slide right into pious templar. Also check out the Torm specific feats in Champions of Valor, as well as the Torm paladin substitution levels and prestige classes. The Torm entry feat isn't great, but mark of the Triad feat lets you cash in those turn attepts into a holy or axiomic weapon. If you're going the whole, burn turn attempts to power melee route, consider extra turning or a Nightstick (from Libris Mortis).
Riodrian 05-01-06, 02:57 PM	Can't go wrong with Pious templar as many have already said. If you can find a way to get it, a level or two of warpriest isn't bad either. No BAB loss, bonus domain, etc.
nittanytbone 05-02-06, 01:01 AM	THF (two handed fighting) is great for damage output, and the greatsword is an awesome weapon. You'll want Power Attack for sure. Since the complete books are in, I'd second the advice you've already gotten to pick up some divine feats -- trading turn undead attempts for goodies is great. I'd like to throw a shout-out to my personal favorite, Divine Vigor -- +10' move speed and +2 temporary HP/level is great, although the damage-boosting one is also obviously good. Regarding mounted combat -- unless (A) the GM says there will be a lot of outdoor combat situations or (B) I'm playing a small sized paladin that can ride a medium sized mount, I stay away from specializing in mounted combat. It generally is just too inconvenient to bring your mount with you into dungeons and other situations unless it is something like a halfling on a riding dog. If you want something with a bit of arcane flavor, a fun and easy "gish" build is: Paladin 2 --> Sorcerer 4 (or 6) --> Spellsword 1 --> Eldritch Knight or Dragon Disciple. That helps with MAD a bit as there's some charisma synergy, and you can use spells like False Life, Truestrike, and Shield to offset some lower stats elsewhere (like in Dex or Con).
SpartanMD 05-02-06, 11:35 AM	THF (two handed fighting) is great for damage output, and the greatsword is an awesome weapon. You'll want Power Attack for sure. Since the complete books are in, I'd second the advice you've already gotten to pick up some divine feats -- trading turn undead attempts for goodies is great. I'd like to throw a shout-out to my personal favorite, Divine Vigor -- +10' move speed and +2 temporary HP/level is great, although the damage-boosting one is also obviously good. Regarding mounted combat -- unless (A) the GM says there will be a lot of outdoor combat situations or (B) I'm playing a small sized paladin that can ride a medium sized mount, I stay away from specializing in mounted combat. It generally is just too inconvenient to bring your mount with you into dungeons and other situations unless it is something like a halfling on a riding dog. If you want something with a bit of arcane flavor, a fun and easy "gish" build is: Paladin 2 --> Sorcerer 4 (or 6) --> Spellsword 1 --> Eldritch Knight or Dragon Disciple. That helps with MAD a bit as there's some charisma synergy, and you can use spells like False Life, Truestrike, and Shield to offset some lower stats elsewhere (like in Dex or Con). Can't forget about Wraithstrike! I agree with the above regarding mounted combat. Doesn't work well with Torm greatsword weilding Paladin. Perhaps you can get an Acesteral Relic Feat (from BoED) to replace your mount?
SpartanMD 05-02-06, 11:35 AM	THF (two handed fighting) is great for damage output, and the greatsword is an awesome weapon. You'll want Power Attack for sure. Since the complete books are in, I'd second the advice you've already gotten to pick up some divine feats -- trading turn undead attempts for goodies is great. I'd like to throw a shout-out to my personal favorite, Divine Vigor -- +10' move speed and +2 temporary HP/level is great, although the damage-boosting one is also obviously good. Regarding mounted combat -- unless (A) the GM says there will be a lot of outdoor combat situations or (B) I'm playing a small sized paladin that can ride a medium sized mount, I stay away from specializing in mounted combat. It generally is just too inconvenient to bring your mount with you into dungeons and other situations unless it is something like a halfling on a riding dog. If you want something with a bit of arcane flavor, a fun and easy "gish" build is: Paladin 2 --> Sorcerer 4 (or 6) --> Spellsword 1 --> Eldritch Knight or Dragon Disciple. That helps with MAD a bit as there's some charisma synergy, and you can use spells like False Life, Truestrike, and Shield to offset some lower stats elsewhere (like in Dex or Con). Can't forget about Wraithstrike! I agree with the above regarding mounted combat. Doesn't work well with Torm greatsword weilding Paladin. Perhaps you can get an Acesteral Relic Feat (from BoED) to replace your mount? I'm also a big fan of improved Crit with bless weapon spell.
nittanytbone 05-03-06, 02:18 AM	I agree with the above regarding mounted combat. Doesn't work well with Torm greatsword weilding Paladin. Perhaps you can get an Acesteral Relic Feat (from BoED) to replace your mount? Well, I have a quite memorable NPC in my Greyhawk campaign, Sir Jenkins the charger halfling paladin-wannabe... The beauty of power attack is that it works independently of your strength. So a halfling with str 14, power attack, spirited charge, and a lance should be able to inflict hard-core damage on charges with his faithful war-pony. Now squeezing all the feats in is a bit tough, but hey... Fighter 4/Paladin 5/Wild Plains Outrider 1/Halfling Outrider 10 isn't bad.
Kessalin Talira 05-03-06, 03:11 AM	I agree with the Luck of Heroes being a bit of overkill on the saves... Divine Grace will send those through the roof anyway. Something to think about might be the Charging Smite alternate ability from the PHB 2. By the accounts I've read of it from people in Japan that evidently have the book already, if you give up your ability to summon a mount for Charging Smite, when you use a smite on a charge, you deal double your paladin level in bonus damage, in addition to normal smite damage... so it sounds like 3x paladin level on a charging smite.
Lakom 05-03-06, 08:46 AM	I am playing a Paladin of Torm. He is a third level now and I plan to build him Paladin5/pius templar4/divine crusader1/Fist of Torm[Raziel]10 19 lvl's of smiting and 9 lvl of spells from the protection domain...that persistant prismatic sphere is sooooo nice! Now you of course can't take Fist of Raziel since it is in BoED but you could mash hospitaler in its place. Something like Human Paladin 5/Pius tempar 3/Hospitaler 1/Divine crusader2/Hospitaler 9 Feats to take a look at: Power attack Divine might Spirited charge Divine meta persistent Shook trooper Improved initiative