Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fanged Fremont 01-20-06, 07:03 PM	Hello everyone reading this. I am currently designing a campaign and I need a little bit of help with a lich who will be a main antaginist. I need help in figuring out what to do with his phylactery. I couold do the usual thing, such as: Place his phylactery in a dome buried thousands of feet underground and surrounded by a thich shell of magically treated adamantium. Inside this shell the lich could easily teleport in or out, it is very familiar to him, or he could have a hidden tunnel leading to it and use phase door to gain access; however, it would be safer for his phylactery by teleporting. And of course, inside the dome he could have the usual defences: permanent symbols of all kinds all over the walls, and dozens of constructs and undead of many types inside etc., etc. However, I would prefer him to be a unique lich, I want him to protect his phylactery in an unusual way, my players will be expecting something like the above. So if anyone can chime in with some unique ways to protect a phylactery, that would be great. Also, he will be at least a 15th level Gestalt Wizard/Cleric with 100 attribute points to distribute with everything starting at zero with each raising of an attribute by one point costing only one point. He will also have triple standard wealth for a character of his level. And he will probably have some prestige classes in place of actual cleric or wizard levels. I am still deciding his race and any actual help building him will also be appreciated.
elfink 01-20-06, 07:09 PM	My personal favorite way of hiding a phylactery is in plain sight. Make it into another magic item (which is associated with nonevil) which the PCs will want. IE if there is a paladin in the party, have the lich craft a Holy Avenger phylactery and use the appropriate spell to hide the necromancy (don't remember the name of it). Then either stick it in his horde somewhere or give the lich a really good bluff/disguise check and have him give it to a powerful good dragon as a token of his regard for a champion of justice. No PC will suspect the useful magic item given to them by a good dragon is actually a lich's phylactery. Or just give it to an evil dragon as a token of his respect, giving your lich an ally and hiding it convincingly in a horde anyway.
oxybe 01-20-06, 07:15 PM	the more you try to hide it, the more prone they are to find it. -make it a bird cage, the one where he keeps his undead crow familiar in. -the rusty doorknob on his front door -the plaque under a painting of himself, that he placed in the foyer -Hide it among a treasure trove, and give it additional abilities (ex. ring of protection+5 / phylactery). since the phylactery has a CLvl of 11 and the +5 ring has a Clvl of 15, it will look legit...
deathwishjoe 01-20-06, 07:22 PM	if you really want no one to find your phylactery one of the best ideas I've heard of is to make it into a grain of sand and leave it in the middle of the desert. there also is the ever popular personal demi-plane. and as for the protected fortress leaving in a plane that players cant easily survive in such as the negative material plane would be good as well.
lostone 01-22-06, 02:07 PM	My group has a real talent for killing the BBEGs I intend to be antagonists, so I have discovered that I have to make them really hard to permanently eliminate. I participated in a thread a while back that conveniently came when I was working on a Lich antagonist for my group, here are a few of the interesting responses from that thread: Personal Demiplane: As mentioned previously. However there is a prestige class in the Planar Handbook or Manual of the Planes called Gate Crasher (I think) that can make it so he is the only one that can enter tha plane. Just in case someone manages to violate it make it negative energy and a poisonous atmosphere, neither of which will adversely affect you. The class itself isn't optimized, have your cohort be that prestige class, lock out everyone but you and himself, then imprison him from inside the plane so you would be the only one that can cast freedom to release him. Permanent plane accessible only by you, nice private place to regenerate when those pesky PCs defeat you. Imprison the phylactery using the Imprisonment spell. Give the phylactery to a powerful trusted minion (your Cohort if you take the leadership feat) and imprison him. Before you imprison it, build the Sequester spell into your Phylactery as a continuous effect. Sure it'll be pricey, but nice. Make the Phylactery out of Aurorum so that if a PC every does break it while the Lich is still walking around undefeated, the lich can simply piece it back together and make it whole again. If using the sand idea above, use the misdirection spell and have it target another piece of sand so if any magic is used to look for it, it won't be found because it'll read just like every other grain of sand. Bury it deep under the sand where the lich can regenerate while buried in sand and no one will know where he is regenerating until he is whole again. If he's epic check out the spell Aumvor's Fragmented Phylactery in Champions of Ruin. Cast rope trick, make it permanent (needs DM approval, but hey, that's you!). Make it sequestered. Hide the phylactery in there. This again gives you a nice hidden place to regenerate. Make sure the rope trick is in an out of the way place like 1 mile straight up in the air in an unpopulated area, or in a large pit which you then fill in with sand, or underwater, etc. Make the phylactery magically immune to fire, make yourself immune to fire with the Mantle of the Fiery Spirit spell in Sandstorm. Throw the phylactery in a volcano held sacred by a tribe of savage war trolls who think you are a god. Again since you are immune to fire you can regenerate in peace. Make the phylactery into a truly powerful golem/construct/effigy. Go look up the scary effigy builds seen elsewhere on these boards for golems that have natural armor in the hundreds, strength in the hundreds, etc. Make that the phylactery. Also: Make him a Dry Lich from Sandstorm, they have more hit points due to their Unholy Toughness ability (or just grant that ability to the normal Lich).
thegraveyard 01-22-06, 02:21 PM	Make the phylactry whatever you wish, be sure to have teleport without error and go into space.. make your own little space base.. its nice and safe and can be easily protected.
Enamel_32 01-22-06, 02:38 PM	and while you're at it, leave it unsealed, because a lich won't need to breathe, but adventurers will.
Lyinginbedmon 01-22-06, 02:42 PM	Make it a coin and use it to buy a new sparkling sword inscribed with "Do Not Destroy" in draconic, then hang the sword in your foyer. The coin will probably never be seen by the adventurers or the Lich, so chances are it will never be destroyed, and once the PCs destroy the sword they will think the phylactery is destroyed.
lostone 01-22-06, 03:13 PM	Make it a coin and use it to buy a new sparkling sword inscribed with "Do Not Destroy" in draconic, then hang the sword in your foyer. The coin will probably never be seen by the adventurers or the Lich, so chances are it will never be destroyed, and once the PCs destroy the sword they will think the phylactery is destroyed.That was another good idea someone had mentioned. Only don't make it gold, make it copper. It will circulate more. You'll want to make sure to use all the non-detection magics on it permanently, things like nystul's magic aura, non-detection, etc. Better yet, combine this with the epic spell I mentioned above and have thousands of coin-shaped phylacterys circulating around of various denominations (copper, silver, gold, platinum, of various different kingdoms styles).
Lyinginbedmon 01-22-06, 03:30 PM	I keep thinking there's some way to combine a phylactery with consumptive field, but I'm sure it would only work with Demiliches, who benefit from items near their phylactery. Perhaps then, you could make many different rocks enchanted with consumptive field, greater, and key their effect to a Ring worn by the Lich. Then put them all into large forests where all the little woodland animals would die from the spell, granting Str, HP, and CL to the Lich. Since any one could be the Lich's phylactery (At least, by player logic they'll think one of them is), they'd have to try and destroy it, but if none is your phylactery it doesn't matter, so they then have a Lich gaining increasingly high Str and HP whilst they destroy rocks the Lich doesn't even need :devil:
Wilds 01-22-06, 03:36 PM	or use the new spell from Champions of Ruin and have hundreds of phalacrys :cool:
SoulGamit 01-22-06, 03:38 PM	Make his phylactory an atom... lets see the adventurers break that (and survive). Also, artifacts technically don't have a gold piece value, so you can make artifacts into his phylactory... make it something that the adventurers won't want to destroy... wasn't there an artifact that held the plane together?
lostone 01-22-06, 03:49 PM	Also, artifacts technically don't have a gold piece value, so you can make artifacts into his phylactory... make it something that the adventurers won't want to destroy... wasn't there an artifact that held the plane together?Ever heard the phrase "priceless historical artifact"? They're priceless because they are unreplacable and one of a kind. They are beyond value, as in no one could really afford it if it was sold at its true worth. Therefore it has a gold value, just nothing that anyone could afford. :D At least that is what I would tell any players who tried that...right before I punished them somehow.
Lyinginbedmon 01-22-06, 03:56 PM	or use the new spell from Champions of Ruin and have hundreds of phalacrys :cool: That was the spell that Lostone mentioned ;) Make his phylactory an atom... lets see the adventurers break that (and survive). Also, artifacts technically don't have a gold piece value, so you can make artifacts into his phylactory... make it something that the adventurers won't want to destroy... wasn't there an artifact that held the plane together? You can't write arcane symbols onto an atom, at least not without an electron microscope and the world's first Atomic Pen :P
LordofProcrastination 01-22-06, 04:45 PM	Remember that, according to the SRD, Each lich must make its own phylactery... Other than that, there's really no limitation on what can be a phylactery. Grains of sand, individual atoms, it's all good. An alternate approach to the "really tough to find/recognize" approach would be a phylactery that's just insanely difficult to destroy, even after one has recognized it. My proposal: the phylactery-mountain. Use the assorted instantaneous-conjuration spells to produce a massive amount of raw rock, add a variety of permanent hardening spells, and whatever anti-recognition shielding spells you desire. Rinse and repeat for as many years as you desire, and enchant it as your phylactery when you're pretty certain it would take a couple lifetimes to destroy without uber-specialized sunderers. Variations on this theme include making a castle-phylactery, a city-phylactery, a hill-on-which-a-good-town-is-situated-phylactery, and if you're patient and/or semi-immortal enough already, an ocean-phylactery.
thegraveyard 01-22-06, 05:16 PM	If a lich must make his own phylactery, then instead of the plain view items... why not make the phylactery your very own demi-plane if it is possible. Oh, and how would you break or destroy an ocean and still remain good?
Lyinginbedmon 01-22-06, 05:24 PM	Remember that, according to the SRD, Each lich must make its own phylactery... Other than that, there's really no limitation on what can be a phylactery. Grains of sand, individual atoms, it's all good. An alternate approach to the "really tough to find/recognize" approach would be a phylactery that's just insanely difficult to destroy, even after one has recognized it. Actually, there were additional requirements noted in Libris Mortis. I know I'll probably be in breach of the CoC and OGL for doing this, but I'll post this short snippet:The phylactery can exist in other forms as well, though it must either contain or bear an arcane inscription.
LordofProcrastination 01-22-06, 05:31 PM	The phylactery can exist in other forms as well, though it must either contain or bear an arcane inscription. Doesn't sound like a problem at all for any of the methods I suggested, thought it's good to hear they made some attempt at limiting lichs' options. All of the above "Brobdingnagianly big evil phylacteries" (or BBEPs) could contain or bear many many forms of arcane inscriptions. Whether it's a billion rocks with a single glyph apiece tossed into the ocean or a giant arcane symbol formed by the pattern of a landscape-sized phylactery, alternatives to little metal boxes are many indeed for the discerning undead.
josephk 01-22-06, 05:31 PM	Evil idea, put the phylactery inside(!) a princess or daughter of a noble aristocrat, optimal a goodie two-shoe king or nobleman(through some sort of surgery, surely that would be possible for a lich of that magnitude) or something similiar. Preferbly a 5-7 year old girl, that the lich know will be safe(kings daughter). Maybe the king or nobleman, should be under the liches control somehow. She would need to live in a castle that the lich has access to (perhaps in form of disguise, polymorphed or similiar), maybe he could cast that spell that makes you know a persons location persistently(cant remember the spell name). I like the grain of sand in the desert idea as wel.
K 01-22-06, 06:48 PM	These threads come around a lot, but here are a few ideas: 1. In a permanent Antimagic Field (per Arms and Equipment), anywhere. AMFs block divination magic and teleportation magic, but don't block the lich's reviving process (since technically its natural). See also "Null Magic Plane with permament portals(far from the phylactery)." 2. Underground, in a hollow cast of the lich's body, in a vacuum. Since the Lich reforms at the location of his phylactery, he fills up the hollow cast. Since the space is only large enough for the lich's bones, people can't teleport or Gate to the location. Since its deep underground, it could take years of excavation to find it the old fashioned way, and a simple Still/Silent Teleport combo can return the lich to anywhere he wants. 3. A construct or intelligent item. Give it magic items, and it can run across the planes to escape the party. 4. Out of the time stream. A magic trap of Time Stop will keep the lich out of the normal time stream long enough to reform. It activates every turn, and the Lich can use a power like Spell Stowaway to share the effect. See also Far Realms. 5. The capstone to a dam, lava flow, cavern support, or castle. Destroy the lich, and you kill thousands.
SigmaJargon 01-22-06, 07:17 PM	5. The capstone to a dam, lava flow, cavern support, or castle. Destroy the lich, and you kill thousands.This is my favorite type of phylactery - destroy it, and bad things (tm) start to happen. Building off of the coin idea, if the lich in question can get himself hired at the local mint, he could wreck havoc with this, possibly even linking an entire countries economy with the existence of his phylactery. To kill the lich, you have to locate every single coin minted after a certain year and destroy it. With coins routinely being dropped in rivers, lost under sofas, carried to foreign countries, and otherwise dispersed across the world, it would be a nearly impossible task to destroy them all - and if you did, you would deal millions of gold pieces in damage to the country.
thegraveyard 01-22-06, 08:02 PM	make the planet's moon the phylactery, if you could that is. when its destroyed, it could cause major problems for the planet it orbits
Raxmei 01-22-06, 09:25 PM	Enchant the phylactery as a intelligent item. A lich would want something intelligent guarding its phylactery, and what better a person to do it than someone who will die if it is destroyed? Give it a special purpose related to preserving itself and put in some useful powers. For fun make the original item something that could already move or give it the dimension door power. The item runs away when the battle starts if it hasn't left its master already. It could go around influencing evil people while the PCs are trying to puzzle out the junk in the lich's lair. It isn't unbeatable, but at least it's more interesting than a box.
lostone 01-23-06, 10:06 AM	1. In a permanent Antimagic Field (per Arms and Equipment), anywhere. AMFs block divination magic and teleportation magic, but don't block the lich's reviving process (since technically its natural). See also "Null Magic Plane with permament portals(far from the phylactery)."If it is in a permanent antimagic field, it has no magic to bring the Lich back when it is defeated by a group of heroes. The Lich has defeated itself if it does this. 2. Underground, in a hollow cast of the lich's body, in a vacuum. Since the Lich reforms at the location of his phylactery, he fills up the hollow cast. Since the space is only large enough for the lich's bones, people can't teleport or Gate to the location. Since its deep underground, it could take years of excavation to find it the old fashioned way, and a simple Still/Silent Teleport combo can return the lich to anywhere he wants.How would the lich find/create such a spot in the first place? just curious how you expect him to do this. 5. The capstone to a dam, lava flow, cavern support, or castle. Destroy the lich, and you kill thousands.Great idea. All the magical patterns can be hidden by placing them facedown against other stones. Make it over a valley filled with a massive city full of millions for great effect. make the planet's moon the phylactery, if you could that is. when its destroyed, it could cause major problems for the planet it orbitsExcept, as mentioned previously, the Lich has to make his own phylactery. Unless the lich is going to make an additional moon for the planet (which would cause tidal and weather problems for the planet motivating entire continents of heroes to work together to find a way to get rid of it), this does not work. Enchant the phylactery as a intelligent item. A lich would want something intelligent guarding its phylactery, and what better a person to do it than someone who will die if it is destroyed? Give it a special purpose related to preserving itself and put in some useful powers. For fun make the original item something that could already move or give it the dimension door power. The item runs away when the battle starts if it hasn't left its master already. It could go around influencing evil people while the PCs are trying to puzzle out the junk in the lich's lair.An awakened golem with magic items and epic class levels in Perfect Wight. :D
Fanged Fremont 01-25-06, 04:56 PM	Only one problem with many of the aformentioned ideas... I believe that in Liberis Mortis it states that no matter its form, a phylactery is always tiny with hardness 20 and 40 hit points. However, I could just not use this one point in the book and only use what I like. But I like to give my characters a fighting chance by using some of the rules at least. The problem with making a phylactery a coin, unless you also use fragmented phylactery from Champions of Ruin(man I need that book, and sandstorm for the dry lich), is the safety of the phylactery. WHat if the coin is melted to make a bar, or consumed in a spell, or destroyed to make a piece of jewelry, etc... The problem with hiding your phylactery in a volcano or just underground is that all that a person would have to do to get your phylactery is call any apropriate elemental to retrieve it with a simple planer ally spell, though I am sure there are spells to protect your phylactery from such.
K 01-25-06, 08:06 PM	If it is in a permanent antimagic field, it has no magic to bring the Lich back when it is defeated by a group of heroes. The Lich has defeated itself if it does this. Antimagic Fields block only Spells, Spell-like abilities, and Supernatural abilties. The process where a lich's soul goes to it's phylactery is not tagged with any of these tags, thus its a Natural effect. So once a lich reforms, it simply walks out of the AMF, and teleports home. Great idea. All the magical patterns can be hidden by placing them facedown against other stones. Make it over a valley filled with a massive city full of millions for great effect. Why? Mordernkainen's Private Santum can be made permanent and it blocks all divination spells. If your phylactery is a keystone to a lava river or dam or something, this one spell will prevent any divination spell from finding it. I believe that in Liberis Mortis it states that no matter its form, a phylactery is always tiny with hardness 20 and 40 hit points. However, I could just not use this one point in the book and only use what I like. But I like to give my characters a fighting chance by using some of the rules at least. An awakened golem with magic items and epic class levels in Perfect Wight. Sure, it has these very small requirements, but whats stopping a golem from having the phylactery in a lich-shaped hole in its torso? The problem with hiding your phylactery in a volcano or just underground is that all that a person would have to do to get your phylactery is call any apropriate elemental to retrieve it with a simple planer ally spell, though I am sure there are spells to protect your phylactery from such. Sure, if you were silly enough to not "seed" the land around you. Many monsters exist that have the ability to walk through stone and earth, use Passwall at will, burrow, or Disintigate at will. The easiest way prevent such effects is to bury in the surrounding land enough junk to disrupt these effects. Roots of trees block earth elementals and Passwall, as will any non-stone barriers. Passwall can even be vastly reduced in effectiveness by using one inch spaces between one foot sheets of rock, making the spell end every foot. Disintigate is harder to foil, as its an at-will ability on Beholders, an iconic DnD monster. My prefered tactic is a Dead Cube, which involves burying thousands of Skeletons in the dirt with me. Animate Dead can create an infinite number of undead as long as you don't care to control them. Simply fill the earth with buried skeletons, using stone boxes made with Wall of Stone. As creatures try to Passwall or Disintigrate through, their spell's Line of Effect end at the skeletons ,killing some if you are using damaging spells, and releasing the rest to attack. You could even layer in permanent Walls of Force and magical traps on stone plates behind the Walls so that once someone destroys a Wall of Force, they are immediately affected by the magic trap. How would the lich find/create such a spot in the first place? just curious how you expect him to do this. I'd probably use at willl Passwall from a monster to go down a thousand feet, then start a straight excavation using at will Disintigrate to clear dirt and Walls of Force to make sure the whole thing doesn't collapse on me. Once a large enough space was cleared and the outer edges of my Deadcube were reinforced with Walls of Force, I'd layer my skeleton army into the construction using Stone Shape spells and Wall of Stone, making ten by ten stone blocks filled with earth and skeletons to make my Deadcube, with me at the center(so that clever elementals can't go under and around). With magic traps in one inch voids between the stone blocks, anything moving or burrowing through the earth will die. Then use Disintigate and Passwall to move around the earth surrounding your Deadcube and set Searing/Empowered/Twinned Fire Traps or similarly enhanced Symbols on blocks to slow down burrowing monsters. I mean, as a lich, you really do have the time on your hands to create a really crazy hiding place for your phylactery. All you need to do is buy a few days in order to reform, then you can avoid the party and move your phylactery to a new place.
Lusden Veharo 01-25-06, 08:21 PM	This one is sick and twisted, perfect for an evil undead spellcaster: make your phlactery your child. You "created" them, and can easily tattoo on the arcane symbols, and no adventuring party will remain good after slaughtering an innocent. Just make sure your child doesn't turn to evil and you're set. Being a human and making your child/phlactery an Elan is cruel on so many levels.
SolInvictus 01-25-06, 10:23 PM	Since you're the GM you can create any number of absurd situations which would make it completely impossible for your players to find the phylactery. You could just not have it be anywhere. If you're looking to make it a more interesting campaign, I'd have the phylactery be the gem that's holding the soul of the ancient demon lord, or some other evil even greater than the lich. The players have to choose between destroying the lich for good, and unleashing an even greater threat.
lostone 01-29-06, 09:34 AM	I believe that in Liberis Mortis it states that no matter its form, a phylactery is always tiny with hardness 20 and 40 hit points. And then you encase it in something harder and with more hitpoints...like a golem. The problem with making a phylactery a coin, unless you also use fragmented phylactery from Champions of Ruin(man I need that book, and sandstorm for the dry lich), is the safety of the phylactery. WHat if the coin is melted to make a bar, or consumed in a spell, or destroyed to make a piece of jewelry, etc... That idea is really only good with the epic spell to split your phylactery many times, or to make it into the coin then enchant it so it is nearly indestructible (immune to all elements, etc). The problem with hiding your phylactery in a volcano or just underground is that all that a person would have to do to get your phylactery is call any apropriate elemental to retrieve it with a simple planer ally spell, though I am sure there are spells to protect your phylactery from such.They have to find it first, make the sequester spell and nondetection spell permanent on it. Antimagic Fields block only Spells, Spell-like abilities, and Supernatural abilties. The process where a lich's soul goes to it's phylactery is not tagged with any of these tags, thus its a Natural effect. So once a lich reforms, it simply walks out of the AMF, and teleports home.An Antimagic Field suppresses all magical effects in its area, hence the term "anti-magic". Are you telling me that reforming a new body is not a magical effect? How could it be anything but magical? Just because it isn't labeled as (Su) doesn't mean it is (Ex) or in any other way mundane.
1984 01-29-06, 12:34 PM	Hmm. Material Plane is infinite. Arcane Eye has a range of unlimited and can be created at any point you can see. So in theory, you could travel to other worlds. Find a planet you can actually stay on. Find somwhere to put the phylactery, make a permanent prismatic sphere around it and go kill the local sun. Return to "home" The only way to find the phylactery: Divine Help. "In a dead world, engulfed in darkness, there you will find the lifeforce of your foe" If they find it, they deserve to get rid of the guy.
Lyinginbedmon 01-29-06, 12:55 PM	With the slight problem being that it'll take you a long while to get to said planet, without considering epic levels (Which we are if you want numerous phylacteries). If you can't see it then you're firing blind, so to speak, and might easily overshoot the planet you're looking for. The arcane eye has a speed of 300ft/minute, and has a duration of 1 min/level. So, that's 20minutes at 20th CL, in which it can travel 6000ft. Not exactly interstellar. Additionally, how do you plan on killing the sun?
HraTaika 01-29-06, 01:02 PM	Was thinking of that actually... Another planet. Also consider something like in a sun or perhaps in a backhole? Though one needs to think can it get out of it?
1984 01-29-06, 01:07 PM	This can be done before epic. Greater teleport has unlimited range and available at lvl 14. Arcane Eye is a lvl 4 spell. Multiple castings should be essential. Killing the sun... Now you might consider calling me a very silly person, but i would say that Brown Mould(CR2) would do the trick(See page 76 in DMG). Simply teleport a box into the sun. :D
Lyinginbedmon 01-29-06, 01:25 PM	Killing the sun... Now you might consider calling me a very silly person, but i would say that Brown Mould(CR2) would do the trick(See page 76 in DMG). Simply teleport a box into the sun. :D You're right, I do consider you a very silly person. Because it's in space, where it doesn't get much colder. As the matter stream of the box & mold is being transported through space, an unhappy DM would decree that the matter is dealt cold damage and therefore the mold is destroyed before it even reaches the sun. Also, remember that spacial bodies cause space around them to 'bend', as with a black hole. One could assume that this is also the case for targeting into the center of a sun or black hole, absolute warp-age. And am I the only here that thinks it's insane to be able to take out a sun (http://www.solarviews.com/browse/sun/sun.jpg)Average surface temp: 6,000 C Composition Hydrogen - 92.1% Helium - 7.8% Oxygen - 0.061% Carbon - 0.030% Nitrogen - 0.0084% Neon - 0.0076% Iron - 0.0037% Silicon - 0.0031% Magnesium - 0.0024% Sulfur - 0.0015% All others - 0.0015% with a CR 2 obstacle? :eek:
Dregdulain 01-29-06, 01:38 PM	The guy who posted in the very first part of the thread who said "Make it the rusty doorknob into the lich's lair" had the best idea. Sure, you can do all sorts of things to make it literally impossible to find, but thats not very fun for the players and that is the reason the DM is there, just like the players are there for the DM to have fun. The doorknob thing is the best way for things to be possible and still very difficult. Plus everyone would get a huge laugh when they find out about it. The only reason I dont think making it a a plaque or a painting would be better is because my PCs like to tear up a villain's home for some reason...and maybe break the door down...but never think about the doorknobs.
1984 01-29-06, 01:42 PM	Teleported INTO the sun, not close to it. Anyway, there are many reasons why this should not work. I am simply making suggestions. But then again, the point is that this is a NPC Lich, not a player. By the way, you are in the boards that spawned pun-pun, killing one sun with a cr 2 obstacle shouldn't be so crazy. You're right, I do consider you a very silly person. Yahoo, i was correct!!! :D
Eidolon Faer 01-29-06, 02:01 PM	A few other suggestions: 1. "Oh mighty Lord Nerull, lifereaper and scourge of the weak, I, Blackheart, most loyal of thy servitors, place my phylactery into thy keeping. It's conveniently crafted as a pinky-ring." 2. Find a famous historical relic of little inherent worth that predates your own life and undeath. Craft a copy. Pay a rogue to swap the original for the copy, make the original your phylactery, and swap it back before anyone notices. Utterly destroy the rogue and any craftsman responsible for the copy. And destroy the fake as well. It wouldnt do to have stories circulating. 3. I like the idea of the living / construct phylactery. Make sure the being you choose somehow remains unaware of their nature. It's particularly beautiful if you're a Demi-lich and get benefit from everything your "phylactery" is wearing... 4. Safety Deposit Box in a Gnomish bank.
Faithless the Wonder Boy 01-29-06, 02:16 PM	As a DM, I've only ever used one lich that was serious enough to warrant the players going on a world-wide hunt to find its phylactery. The phylactery was in fact hidden as the right eye in a thirty-foot tall statue of Pelor in a huge metropolis. It wasn't impossible to find, but it took quite a while, and was a lot of fun. Ooh! New idea! This one I may end up using in a campaign, it sounds like an excellent campaign on its own. Have all likelihood point to the phylactery being a small gold coin. However, that coin is not the phylactery, but rather a Durakistad Coin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20041231a). Have it be that the lich was the only individual from Durakistad to have escaped the wrath of the deities that punished it. His phylactery was, in fact, made when he was still a resident of Durakistad, and so remains there. It doesn't say if you can destroy the city or its inhabitants from the inside, but if you as the DM rule that you can, have it so that the lich designed his phylactery so that it must be removed from Durakistad to be destroyed. Make it hidden somewhere in that city, and since it's native, it can't be removed from the city to be destroyed. Now, in order to get to the phylactery, they must first travel to Durakistad, where this "perfect" utopia exists and the entire population is willing to serve them. First comes the risk of wisdom drain (and find reasons to make them stay longer and longer, rolling the wisdom drain rolls in secret). Then, if they escape it and somehow discover where the phylactery is, they won't be able to remove it to destroy it. Instead they must find a way to destroy the coin itself, which is a major artifact, and could have any number of implications - does the city, which was punished by the gods, return as it once was? If so, what will the citizens, who are now certifiably insane from having been imprisoned for thousands of years and forced to serve every bastard who found the coin be like? What will happen to whatever has since moved over the old city's location? And what will the gods do when they find out you brought the city back? Or, if the city does not return, then what happens? Does it simply wink out, and if so, is the phylactery considered destroyed? Will it kill each and every inhabitant (again, there's the idea of "destroy the phylactery and kill thousands")? And how the heck do they destroy the coin, anyways? Sure, it may not be as snazzy as a grain of sand buried in the desert or a dead planet somewhere, but it should be an excellent campaign that will really challenge the PCs intellectually and mechanically.
lostone 01-29-06, 02:18 PM	2. Find a famous historical relic of little inherent worth that predates your own life and undeath. Craft a copy. Pay a rogue to swap the original for the copy, make the original your phylactery, The Lich must craft their own phylactery, they can't add it to something that already exists. 3. I like the idea of the living / construct phylactery. Make sure the being you choose somehow remains unaware of their nature. It's particularly beautiful if you're a Demi-lich and get benefit from everything your "phylactery" is wearing...I like this idea too, but it was pointed out earlier that it does nto work. So I suggested making the phylactery and then craft a golem around it (so the phylactery is in a nice little padded void inside the golem). The golem is basically a walking talking bank vault. It would not know the phylactery is there since it was not activated until after the phylactery was placed. If you want to get even cheesier, make the golem medium sized, golden colored and a prissy translator, give it to a young member of royalty. It will miraculously escape most situations intact and those it does not make it through will not damage it beyond repair. :D
PhaedrusXY 01-29-06, 02:55 PM	2. Find a famous historical relic of little inherent worth that predates your own life and undeath. Craft a copy. Pay a rogue to swap the original for the copy, make the original your phylactery, The Lich must craft their own phylactery, they can't add it to something that already exists.The Lich must craft their own phylactery, they can't add it to something that already exists.No, but they could make the copy their phylactery. If the copy is so good that noone can tell it is a fake, and they just stick it back into the "museum" or temple of Pelor, or whatever other innocuous bastion of good might be holding such an item, I'd say it is pretty well hidden. You'd need to permanently enchant it with Misdirection, but that is pretty standard for any phylactery I think.
Lyinginbedmon 01-29-06, 03:06 PM	By the way, you are in the boards that spawned pun-pun, killing one sun with a cr 2 obstacle shouldn't be so crazy. Touche... And thankyou Faithless for posting the link to Durakistad, that's a gem I've been looking for for ages :D
vanhellsing 01-29-06, 03:26 PM	if yu really want to try something differnet, give your players the phylactery, diguised as something they would die to have. perhaps a very useful magic item, of coarse the phylactery should be disguised very well via spells, the beauty of it is if they kill the lich in a couple days their going to have a rude surprise when they awake to find themsevels at the lich's mercy, also make some decoy phylacteries to make them believe that they destroyed the phylactery (send them on big quests, risk their lives the regular stuff)
jstorrie 01-29-06, 08:07 PM	Combining some of the ideas above: how about a time-accelerated demiplane that is itself the phylactery? Transplant a small town into the plane when the plane is created, and ten years down the road when the lich is a famous Big Bad, his demiplane phylactery is inhabited by an entire world's worth of population. Is the party willing to kill an entire mini-universe? Can they sneak the people out under the lich's nose? etc.
SanguinaryPanda 01-29-06, 09:55 PM	Seeing as how i've never played a lich i am not entirely sure if this would work, being that the decision of how something is "created" is a subjective one. Anywho, making the lacquer/varnish/enamel on holy artifact of some repute would be a mean thing to do. At the least it would confuse them as to how you seemingly created a holy artifact.
beezly 01-29-06, 10:29 PM	Lot's of great ideas on how to keep the PC's from finding it, but here's an interesting idea on how to clue them into the location. -Make the Phylachery something of personal importance to the lich while he was alive. Maybe a locket of his dead wife's hair. Maybe his father's sword. Then, as the PC's reasearch the origins of the lich, they are clued to the phylachery's location.
lyonnyte 01-29-06, 11:05 PM	Hide your phylactery by putting it inside a stone golem or whatever that golem is that's immune to spells so that they have to hack at it in order to grab your phylactery. Inside the golem is a hole where only you can fit so you can regenerate there. Here's the iffy part...can you teleport out of it? Another way is to create your phylactery (Preferably rock shaped) and place it on a meteor which passes the earth once every 1000 years or so. Put the standard protection spells on it and Forbiddance. Divine help would tell them that the phylactery is on a meteor somewhere in space. To get out, all you have to do is teleport. Permanent Rope Trick with a Wraith Shadowdancer hiding in plain sight with max ranks of Hide and a skill pump who pulled up the rope. Even after breaking into the rope space, they'd still have to find the Shadowdancer. Improved version: Also give it Telfimar (spelling?) Shadowlord or Gate Crasher levels so that it can run away even if they do find it.
Lokiyn 01-30-06, 12:24 AM	Got it. A previous poster mentioned a demiplane phylactory. After rolling my eyes i set out to figure this out. Apparently there is only one way to do this. A level 10 Planeshifter (MotP) uses a gemestone to create a demiplane. The important thing is to realize that the gemstone is not a material component. The effect is transformational. The Seed becomes the demiplane, rather than being consumed. The seed opens into a demiplane. As a bonus the only access is a portal that is under the control of the planeshifter/lich. Hah take that heros there isn't any way to destroy a demiplane all you can do is seal the portal.
lostone 01-30-06, 09:03 AM	Hide your phylactery by putting it inside a stone golem or whatever that golem is that's immune to spells so that they have to hack at it in order to grab your phylactery. Inside the golem is a hole where only you can fit so you can regenerate there. Here's the iffy part...can you teleport out of it?Already mentioned, and yes you can teleport out with a ring of teleport or silent still teleport. Another way is to create your phylactery (Preferably rock shaped) and place it on a meteor which passes the earth once every 1000 years or so. Put the standard protection spells on it and Forbiddance. Divine help would tell them that the phylactery is on a meteor somewhere in space. To get out, all you have to do is teleport. A problem I see with this one is that, meteors eventually strike something at such high speed the phylactery would be dust, and that can happen without warning, or it will fly into a star, or black hole, etc. Permanent Rope Trick with a Wraith Shadowdancer hiding in plain sight with max ranks of Hide and a skill pump who pulled up the rope. Even after breaking into the rope space, they'd still have to find the Shadowdancer. Improved version: Also give it Telfimar (spelling?) Shadowlord or Gate Crasher levels so that it can run away even if they do find it.Not sure what you're getting at with this one. Is the wraith the phylactery? Don't think that would work, I believe the phylactery has to be made out of an object. Maybe you could polymorph any object the phylactery into a wraith? Also how does an incorporeal undead pull a rope up? Finally I think it is a bad idea to make your phylactery into something that is even more vulnerable than you are to "Turn Undead". If the wraith is just a guardian for your phylactery in the rope trick, the rope trick idea has already been mentioned.
Lyinginbedmon 02-28-06, 04:17 PM	Here's a thought: Get a whale Kill said whale Make whale phylactery Animate dead whale Send whale (after consuming an item of gentle repose) into the oceans Awaken undead if you want to
diphycue 02-28-06, 07:06 PM	What we need is some way to make destroying the phylactery a horribly evil act (maybe by having it the keystone to a dam or something as mentioned before), but also will kill whomever destroys it...so not only would you have to be willing to do an evil act, you'd have to be willing to die to commit the act. That way no good aligned party would do it, and no evil aligned monster would be willing to.
GDarius 02-28-06, 08:00 PM	I prefer the really mean (but not impossible-to-find) phylactary: 1 - Craft a gem worth 40 000 gp 2 - Make a delicious sandwich, sneakily incorporating said gem 3 - Make the sandwich a trigger object for a Trap The Soul spell 4 - Feed the sandwich to the Tarrasque (or a similarly powerful, non-intelligent creature) 5 - Make that gem your phylactary. When the heroes kill you and find your gem (which may be cleverly hidden or not, depending on your preference) they can choose to destroy it or not. If they don't, you reform eventually and destroy them. If they DO, they must then contend with one very ****** off Tarrasque.
Malakai_Demonos 02-28-06, 08:28 PM	Although a DM could easily rule it so. How far-fetched is it to have nystul's magic aura permanencied. Also nondetection, or any other misleading or hiding spell. And can you permanency a spell on a magic item, like a phylactery. Also, that would be funny to feed the Tarrasque your phylactery. But, would you reanimate inside of him. And if you couldn't cut your way out, you would be stuck in an endless cycle of being reborn and digested, again and again. Also, wouldn't the Tarrasque eventually excrement the phylactery out.
BloodSpill 03-01-06, 05:23 AM	DC 55 - Cast spell with somantic component whilst being grappled. Whee! This may be a bit of a tangent, but true resurrection. If the lich's phylactery is destroyed but not the lich itself, said lich can be targeted by the spell to return to life without being destroyed first (says so under the undead type). Make another phylactery! Again! Is this a very expensive way of gaining multiple phylacteries before epic or what? Oh, phylactery + shrink item + permanency
GDarius 03-01-06, 07:42 AM	Malakai: The point of that process wasn't to have the Tarrasque contain your phylactery, rather it was the other way round. See, since the phylactery is a trigger item for Trap The Soul, as soon as the Target [read: Tarrasque] "Picks up or otherwise accepts" it [read: Eats] it, your spell goes off with no save or SR. The Tarrasque is now inside your phylactery, and the only way to free it is by breaking the the gem.
lostone 03-01-06, 07:48 AM	Here's a thought: Get a whale Kill said whale Make whale phylactery Animate dead whale Send whale (after consuming an item of gentle repose) into the oceans Awaken undead if you want toI don't like that idea simply because there are plenty of critters in the oceans of D&D worlds who will easilly defend their territory against the most powerful whale in the SRD (The Cachalot Whale, 12 HD, 16 AC, 1 bite attack doing 4d6+12 damage, this is EASILLY overwhelmed by a group of warrior caste critters around level 2-3). If you give it the gentle repose they might even mistake it for a living whale and be actively hunting it for food. Although a DM could easily rule it so. How far-fetched is it to have nystul's magic aura permanencied. Also nondetection, or any other misleading or hiding spell. And can you permanency a spell on a magic item, like a phylactery.I don't see why not, I have even done this to a BBEG lich before, also used Sequester on it too, then imprisoned a minion that was holding the phylactery. Also, that would be funny to feed the Tarrasque your phylactery. But, would you reanimate inside of him. And if you couldn't cut your way out, you would be stuck in an endless cycle of being reborn and digested, again and again. Also, wouldn't the Tarrasque eventually excrement the phylactery out.We don't know enough about the Tarrasque to really tell. But you could cover it in barbs so it will attach to the intestinal wall or something like that. Or if you're a brave lich you could even deliver it yourself...get swallowed use some sovereign glue and glue it to the intestinal wall (or even inside the esophagus) yourself. Make it out of a the thinnest smoothest disk you can so that no one can use it as a handle to stop from being swallowed as they slide by (that way a group of heroes has to actually kill the tarrasque before having a chance to destroy your phylactery).
lostone 03-09-06, 09:42 AM	Have all likelihood point to the phylactery being a small gold coin. However, that coin is not the phylactery, but rather a Durakistad Coin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20041231a). Have it be that the lich was the only individual from Durakistad to have escaped the wrath of the deities that punished it. His phylactery was, in fact, made when he was still a resident of Durakistad, and so remains there. It doesn't say if you can destroy the city or its inhabitants from the inside, but if you as the DM rule that you can, have it so that the lich designed his phylactery so that it must be removed from Durakistad to be destroyed. Make it hidden somewhere in that city, and since it's native, it can't be removed from the city to be destroyed.I used this in a game last night. :devil: They defeated the lich, but not before he destroyed a significant part of their magic items with a MDJ and caused lots of constitution damage (from maximized cloudkills) and negative levels (touch attack for anyone who got too close). Plus he was a Dread Necromancer with all the corpse crafter feats, so the group was already hurting by the time they made it through the army to get to the Lich. We ended the game with the group figuring out the coin was the method to access an ancient city and they have correctly guessed that is where the liches phylactery was (at first they thought the coin itself was the phylactery and spent a good 30 minutes trying to figure out a way to destroy the coin). Good catch, Faithless The Wonder Boy, my group hates you. :D
Mordenkainen's Evil Twin 03-10-06, 11:49 AM	A Demilich is very powerful, but to my understanding you must take 21 levels of cleric, sorcerer, or wizard. Which is a huge draw back. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
zlatko 03-11-06, 05:32 AM	You are wrong. :D To become a demilich you have to be a lich with 21 HD. Which means that you either change into a lich at lvl 13, and add 8 levels, then change into a demilich, or have a caster lvl 21 change into a lich then demilich. This costs a lot. A LOT. edit; And in any case 21 levels of cleric or wizard is never a drawback.
Ed-Zero 03-13-06, 11:42 PM	Here's a couple of ideas, Note: These are from a thread long ago...: ~ 1) If the Lich is leader of a kingdom, build it into the foundation of a national treasure and prideful/egotistical historical piece as a gift to another nation to symbolize their greatness (Statue of Liberty). 2) Make it impervious to fire and throw it in a volcano. 3) If epic level cast Nailed to the Sky on it (place it in perfect, magical, non-decaying orbit). 4) Can't think of any rules that would encompass this but would make for some good roleplaying. Through magical modification seperate the phylactery into thousands of puzzle pieces. Cast those inside of platinum coins (more precious, less likely to be lost or parted with) with nondetection on them and distribute those among the populations of many large cities. They will probably come to reside inside of treasuries and vaults of the wealthy where they will sit for decades at a time. 5) For that matter make it into a massive gemstone and secretly place it in an dragons horde or even openly gift him with it in exchange for some minor favor or service. The dragon will guard it jealously with the rest of his horde. 6) Easiest way to keep your phylactery safe is to find a plane where time flows really really slowly. Example 1 round in plane = 1 day in normal plane. 7) If you want it in something near unkillable, place it in an ironwyrm golem from the draconomicon, immune to magic (old school variety, no only immune to spell resistance, immune period), immune to rust, healed by fire, breathes fire (got to love synergy), not vulnerable to anything except being slowed by cold. Place an amulet of nondetection on it and all but the best magic users will simply think it to be a pain in the neck golem. 8) Making it a disruption weapon and placing it in your treasure vault. put it right into your skull... and make sure you don't die and get 200% searched. 9) If you take 1 level of psion, you can take the Mind Vault power from Hyperconscious (the book from Sword & Socery). Hold your phylactery before you goto sleep (if you can or can't sleep, i'm not sure) and when you goto sleep you can store the phylactery in your dream forever and only you can access it. 10) If you're epic, use Aumvor's Fragmented Phylactery on your phylactery to break it into 1 + Int mod pieces per casting. Now every piece must be found and destroyed before the lich is destroyed. You can cast it more than once on the pieces, so you can Fragment infinitely. 11) Make the phylactery identical to a coin and place Nystruls Aura on it (Craft Wondrous Item). Now you have a lot of options. (if you can make multiple phylacteries #2 is best) 1) Give it to a powerful dragon (preferrably to a draco-lich) along with jewels and other coins. Make it a gold coin. It'll stay there for millenia or until someone slays it and spends it (see #2) 2) Circulate it in a metropolis. Wear a robe and go find a beggar, throw the copper coin into his bowl/hat and tell him to get out of your sight. You'll be remembered as a rude stranger and the coin will quickly get into a storekeepers hands. 3) Make it silver and give it to a crow(?) or what that birds name is (the one that steals shiny objects). Eventually it'll be found by someone and they'll just see a lot of old stuff covered by bird droppings. No one will pay attention to it. 4) Make it silver. Fill a bag with silver and copper and go to a tavern, get a room, tip the maid, the bartender, gamble (and use cheat to simulate bad luck), buy people rounds etc. In the end they'll remember a happy guy (use alter polymorph to assume human form) who was friendly and you had a night out. [B]12) Make it the holy symbol of St. Cuthbert (with a ruby in the middle) and either: 1) Donate it to a church 2) Keep it in your lair and set up an altar. 13) Make it into a 'ring of invisibility/sustenance' with a 'curse' on it that whoever wears it becomes corrupted and obsessed with keeping the ring, as it is too precious to part with. 14) If you want to put it in an Uber-Construct(TM) put it in a Zodar...immune to everything except blunt weapons and it can use wish once a year to save itself...Imprison it and it'll be hidden a lot longer than a year at a time. 15) The obvious answers are to turn it into either a right black sock and throw it in a dryer or turn it into the tv remote. 16) The phylactery is the amulet of some neclace of your second in command/ other notable minion. 17) I like the idea of using the Elemental Familiar spell (from WotC site wayyyyyyyyy back when) to make an earth elemental (they get the best burrow ability) and making your phylactery into a collar for your familiar. It can move at a speed of something like 30 through solid rock and follow your group/army/minions around so you always regenerate near them. And since it moves underground it is safe 99% of the time. 18) if you were a Psion-Lich, you could always manifest Genesis and create your own plane. 19) Nondescript Box from Song and Silence, DC 25 spot check to even notice the thing and a DC 25 Will save or else they forget about it anyway 20) A cursed ring of regeneration that eventually turns the wearer into a living phylactery... or maybe host body. 21) Polymorph it into a grain of sand cast all the permanent non-detection, invisiblity and aura type spells you want on it, then hide it in a big pile of sand (maybe desert or the bottom of the sea). 22) I seem to remember the thread and in the end I think that they decided that throwing it into the abyss was perfect because there was no bottom and after a certain time period the fastest spell for flying would require thousands of years to catch up to it via a physics major. I think it was voted the most sure fire way to hide it. 23) Hint for a psionic lich (or someone that has access to psionics), and some interdimensional space somewhere (or perhaps just a big room). Manifest Quintessence several thousand times, and build a wall of the stuff (being very careful not to let it touch the phylactery, of course - coat it in adamantine, or something) all around the phylactery, on all sides. Every day, manifest Quintessence at least once, and add it to the pile. Eventually, the wall will be so thick that no one will be able to get through it...Except for you. 24) Take improved familer and give the "grain of Sand"i still like that idea) to a Small Air elemental. if ur in trouble he flys into the atmoshpere, and into saftey. and by the time you are turning into alich anyways ur elemental will be way cool and will be ahrd to get, especialy in space, as a elemental doesnt need to breath etc etc ~ Now, if you can PaO on it to turn it into a grain of sand, couldn't you PaO to turn it into water and toss it between the cracks of your castle/cave? Also, you could just toss the water into the sea or a nearby lake that has no openings to the sea. A good question would be: In order to turn into a Dry Lich, you had to get "initiated" by another Dry Lich, so how did the first Dry Lich come about?