Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MortalPlague 07-18-05, 08:12 AM	I have a lich set up as the final bad guy for a campaign I'm running, and I finally statted him out tonight. Now, there are a few things I need to do before I can sic him on the characters, but for the most part, the lich is ready. First off, the party will likely be around L9 or 10 when they encounter him, depending on whether or not they beat up a ton of critters on the way. There are 7 characters in the group, so I feel fairly comfortable setting up the Lich a few levels higher than they are. I'm trying to balance the encounter so that if the characters go in unprepared, some of them will die, but if they go in with a plan, they might all pull through. What are some ways I could improve on my lich's build? Lascarr, the Bringer of Calm Male Undead Specialist Wizard 11 (Necromancer) Lawful Evil Experience: 55000 / 66000 Strength: 12 (+1) Dexterity: 18 (+4) (+2 Gloves of Dexterity) Constitution: - (Undead) Intelligence: 24 (+7) (+4 Headband of Intellect, +2 Lich) Wisdom: 19 (+4) (+2 Periapt of Wisdom, +2 Lich) Charisma: 16 (+3) (+2 Lich) Hit Points: 121 / 121 Armor Class: [Unbuffed] AC 22 (10, +4 Dex, +3 Ring, +5 Natural), Touch 14, Flat-Footed 18 [Mage Armor] AC 26 (10, +4 Dex, +3 Ring, +5 Natural, +4 Mage Armor), Touch 14, Flat-Footed 22 [Shield] AC 26 (10, +4 Dex, +3 Ring, +5 Natural, +4 Shield), Touch 18, Flat-Footed 18 [Protection from Good] AC 24 (10, +4 Dex, +3 Ring, +5 Natural, +2 Protection), Touch 14, Flat-Footed 20 [Mage Armor, Shield, Protection] AC 32 (10, +4 Dex, +3 Ring, +5 Natural, +4 Mage Armor, +4 Shield, +2 Protection), Touch 18, Flat-Footed 24 Initiative +8 BAB +6, Grapple +7 Speed 30’ (Base 30, Load 0/58, None) Carrying Capacity: Light 0-58 / Medium 59-116 / Heavy 117-175 Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +11 +9 melee +2 icy shortsword of wounding (1d6+3, 1d6 cold, 1 Con) 19-20 critical (x2) +7 melee touch attack (1d8+5, Will DC 18 for half damage, Fort DC 18 or be paralyzed) Medium Size, 6’2", 141 lbs., 32 years old LANGUAGES: Common Draconic Goblin Giant SKILLS: +19 Concentration (14 ranks, +1 Con, +4 Combat Casting) +17 Decipher Script (10 ranks, +7 Int) +5 Diplomacy (2 ranks (cross-class, 4 spent), +3 Cha) +12 Hide (0 ranks, +4 Dex, +8 Lich) +21 Knowledge: Arcana (14 ranks, +7 Int) +21 Knowledge: the Planes (14 ranks, +7 Int) +21 Knowledge: History (14 ranks, +7 Int) +19 Listen (7 ranks (cross-class, 14 spent), +4 Wis, +8 Lich) +12 Move Silently (0 ranks, +4 Dex, +8 Lich) +15 Search (0 ranks, +7 Int, +8 Lich) +12 Sense Motive (0 ranks, +4 Wis, +8 Lich) +21 Spellcraft (14 ranks, +7 Int) +19 Spot (7 ranks (cross-class, 14 spent), +4 Wis, +8 Lich) SPECIAL ABILITIES: Hit dice become d12s (Lich) +5 Natural Armor bonus (Lich) Negative Energy Touch Attack Fear Aura (Creatures less than 5th level must make DC 18 or be affected as by Fear spell) Paralyzing Touch (Lich’s touch attack, DC 18 Fort save or permanent paralysis) Turn Resistance (+4 resistance to turning) Damage Reduction (15/bludgeoning and magic) Immune to Cold, Electricity, Polymorph, and Mind-affecting attacks FEATS: Combat Casting Improved Initiative Scribe Scroll Craft Wondrous Item Spell Focus: Necromancy EQUIPMENT: Weaponry: +2 Icy Shortsword of Wounding (moderate evocation) Armor: Ring of Protection +3 (a silver band set with an amethyst, faint abjuration) Equipment: Headband of Intellect +4 (a thin silvery band with an eye engraved in the front, moderate transmutation) Periapt of Wisdom +2 (a brooch shaped as a skull with tiny diamond eyes, moderate transmutation) Gloves of Dexterity +2 (a pair of black leather gloves embossed with a falcon pattern in silver on the back of the hand, moderate transmutation) Wand of Dispel Magic, (40 charges remaining, CL 11th) Ring of Wizardry I (gold band inscribed with arcane symbols, moderate (no school)) SPELLS: (Lascarr specializes in Necromancy, and has forsaken Enchantment and Illusion) 0th Level: (4 [+1 Necromancy]) Resistance, Detect Magic (x2), Arcane Mark, [Touch of Fatigue] 1st Level: (12 [+1 Necromancy]) Mage Armor (x2), Shield (x2), [Ray of Enfeeblement] (x3), Magic Missile (x2), Expeditious Retreat, Protection from Good, True Strike (x2) 2nd Level: (6 [+1 Necromancy]) Web (x2), See Invisibility, Flaming Sphere, Scorching Ray, Fox’s Cunning, [Blindness/Deafness] 3rd Level: (6 [+1 Necromancy]) Fireball (x2), Lightning Bolt, Protection from Energy (x2), Slow, [Vampiric Touch] 4th Level: (4 [+1 Necromancy]) Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, Scrying, [Enervation] (x3) 5th Level: (3 [+1 Necromancy]) Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Transmute Rock to Mud, [Waves of Fatigue] 6th Level: (2 [+1 Necromancy]) Globe of Invulnerability, Repulsion, [Eyebite]
X-Codes 07-18-05, 08:48 AM	Is this Core Only?
Korwin 07-18-05, 09:39 AM	Not shure if this is the right board, but you wrote you want the party to be able to defeat the Lich. I fear after the people on this board are finished this Lich will be a TPK... But aside from that, since you are the DM, how do you rule the Corpsecrafter-Feats from Libris Mortis, say the Lich had them before he made himself an Lich... cu
Borin 07-18-05, 10:58 AM	If you don't drop illusion, Improved Invis could be pretty cool. Polymorph the familiar so the lich has his personal tank (cavetroll, treant, remorhaz, roper). I see you have Cloudkill, which is nice since you're immune to it yourself :cool:
Pellanor 07-18-05, 04:48 PM	If I were you I would boost the CR of that lich a little bit. You said this is the final encounter, so I would make sure to make it nasty. I'm comparing your lich to my 9th lvl Dwarven Cleric and, while I know that I oculdn't take him one on one, with 6 other PCs helping, it would be no problem. My cleric is short on majic gear as I'm playing him in a Darksun setting. AC of 25 would mean that he's almost never hitting with the sword. Will and fort save of +13 means that 80% of the time I'll only take 1/2 damage from the touch attack, and there's only a 20% chance of being paralyzed. That also means that I'll be making the majority of my saving throws vs his spells. On the otherhand, my Flame Strike is going to catch him for apx 31 points of damage 60% of the time, and 15 the other 40% that he makes his saves. And my Axe will bedoing 1d10+10 with a 40% chance of hitting his fully buffed AC (with 2 attacks that's an average of 9-10 damage per round). Not to mention that I can throw some of my spells (like searing light) against him for increased damage (60% chance to hit for apx 31 damage again). of course my cleric is optimized (Persistant divine power helps :D), but I know I've always found that the lone Final Vilan has to be stronger then you think, especially when you're dealing with large groups of PCs. For example: The PC's (4, avg lvl 3rd) had a harder time with the 15 goblins, 4 hobgoblins and 2 bugbears(with 1 lvl of fighter) then they did with the 6th lvl Orcish Barbarian wielding a sentient Orchish Doubleaxe +3 Chaotic / +3 Evil. Something else to take into consideration. Staking the deck in the Lich's Favor. If the battle is taking place in an empty 100'x100' room, my money is on the PC's for a quick and easy victory. However if it's in a room where there is a small planar breach to the negative energy plane, with the Lich's personal gaurds (Powerful Undead and Constructs) awaiting their leader's desire, then the PC's are sure to be hurting if they win. I've got a CR 15 lich that I just put together as one of the villians in our campiagn on the weekend that I can post for you when I get home from work. He's not fully completed, but mostly done. I don't have any of his spells picked however.
jstorrie 07-18-05, 05:43 PM	First of all: singular 'boss' villains tend to go down surprisingly fast versus balanced adventuring parties. Numbers mean a lot. Any lich worth his phylactery will have scryed the crap out of these interlopers, though, and shouldn't be wandering around by himself. He also shouldn't be unprepared. Liches, ironically, don't make the greatest arcane spellcasters, on account of losing caster levels for abilities that are less important. They make decent melee-oriented divine casters. You have two main special abilities to work on: the fear aura and the paralyzing touch. The fear aura might help a bit if the party's fighters have to wade through minions to get to the lich, but the paralyzing touch, a Fort save, is probably only going to hit the casters. Bearing all of this in mind: I would first suggest you retool the lich to have more of a melee focus. A sorceror-based gish (for Cha synergy) or a divine caster would help more. Trick the party with illusion spells: make them think they have to wade through a sea of minions to get to the boss, and then, when the fighters are seperated from the casters, the real lich uses a quickened teleportation spell to pop in the back ranks and wreak havoc on the casters with his magically-enhanced attacks. Divine Power and Righteous Might would be awesome, here: have you considered a Favoured Soul with a PrC (or level of Cleric) that grants Rebuke, thrashing his way through the party thanks to Persistent buffs? If he is going to have lots of small undead minions, there is a corpsecrafter feat in Libris Mortis that makes destroyed undead explode, dealing negative energy damage (which heals nearby undead, but does a number on the Great-Cleaving fighter). Also, don't forget that he should have taken great pains to hide his phylactery. And keep in mind that liches get a very nice bonus to some stealthy skills, too.
MortalPlague 07-18-05, 05:59 PM	This is mostly core only, as I've been running the campaign that way for the players. It's also already been established that the lich is an arcane spellcaster. He will have several melee minions, probably golems or undead. His phylactery is cleverly hidden away; suffice to say it's out of reach for the PCs. He is, however, very aware of the PCs and just what they can do. Chances are, he will have several rounds to prepare. He'll be fighting them in a room with some sort of chill effect that causes damage to creatures (but not to himself, since he's immune). He also probably has a symbol of fear scribed in the room. I suppose I could make him more melee oriented with some gauntlets of ogre power, but I was going to be using enervation on the spellcasters (and globe of invulnerability would take the bite off of any spells lower than 5th). For the record, the PCs are currently as follows: Mel'Torrim, Elf Ranger 6 / Wildrunner 2 - wields two handaxes, one +1 holy, one +1 axiomatic. Low HP, but high AC. Has a Cooshie (elven hound) for an animal companion Doyene, Elf Sorceress 8 - has almost exclusively damage spells known Fnipper, Gnome Cleric 6 / Stormlord 2 - throws electric javelins (Lich is immune to electricity), and usually goes for melee with bull's strength and divine power. Turning may pose a problem Jacques, Human Fighter 8 - uses an icy glaive (Lich is immune to cold), or a longsword and shield. Very much a tank. Has leadership, and a 7th level ranger/fighter cohort. Drawkwa, Halfling Fighter 8 - uses a glaive to be a reach and AoO monster. Deals good damage with power attack. Milo, Halfling Fighter 8 - uses a bow, with manyshot and rapid shot to good effect. Trestan, Specialist Wizard Conjurer (dropped illusion and necromancy) - tends to use offensive and defensive spells in good combinations. Probably the Lich's first target
batstek 07-18-05, 06:43 PM	FEATS: Combat Casting Improved Initiative Scribe Scroll Craft Wondrous Item Spell Focus: Necromancy Wizard 11? He should have more feats than this. 1 for First (Potentially another, if he was human), 1 for Third, 1 for 6th, one for 9th. Also, two bonus feats from wizard (5&10). Anyway, I say you drop Craft Wondrous Item. He's an npc and a boss, give him whatever you feel like. This gives you two feats to work with if he's not human, three if he is. Give him Corpsecrafter and the feat that makes crafted undead explode for 1d6 negative energy damage, and let him have a bunch of rat skeletons wandering around his chamber. The party will likely ignore them, so have the skeletons move in to the group and then AOE them yourself and have the Negative Energy Damage make them wish they hadn't ignored those rats.
Borin 07-18-05, 06:55 PM	I don't think you need to worry about turning, a Lich has +4 turn resistance, which means it is considered a 15hd undead. An 11th level cleric has a slight chance to succeed, a cleric of 10th level or below cannot do it unless he turns undead as a cleric of higher level (getting good turning check modifiers doesn't help here).
Pellanor 07-18-05, 06:57 PM	Let's see, what are a few things that I can suggest right off here... One thing I noticed right off is that nobody has a primary blunt weapon. If they don't have backup magical blunt weapons they'll be inflicting 15 less damage per blow (something I forgot to take into account with my cleric up above). If they cast Magic Weapon on a blunt weapon to get around this, use that wand of yours. One thing I would add to that chilleffect in the room, the Metamagic Feat "Lord of the Uttercold" from Complete Arcane. That way any undead in the room that aren't immune to cold will be healed an equal amount of damage as they take, and those that are immune will slowly regain HP. Maybe throw a Desecrate and Unhallow effect in that room too. I would also give him some kind of body gaurd. I would go for an EL 9 character that takes 3 levels in ... uh... forgot the name of the class. It's the 3 lvl prestige class, first one in Libris Mortis. Anyways, I gotta run. As I said, I'll post up the lich I made when I get home.
X-Codes 07-18-05, 07:27 PM	Wizard 11? He should have more feats than this. 1 for First (Potentially another, if he was human), 1 for Third, 1 for 6th, one for 9th. Also, two bonus feats from wizard (5&10). Anyway, I say you drop Craft Wondrous Item. He's an npc and a boss, give him whatever you feel like. This gives you two feats to work with if he's not human, three if he is. Give him Corpsecrafter and the feat that makes crafted undead explode for 1d6 negative energy damage, and let him have a bunch of rat skeletons wandering around his chamber. The party will likely ignore them, so have the skeletons move in to the group and then AOE them yourself and have the Negative Energy Damage make them wish they hadn't ignored those rats. You need Craft Wonderous Item to make the Phylactery, and nobody else can make the Phylactery for you. Therefore, all liches have and need Craft Wonderous Item.
Pellanor 07-18-05, 09:06 PM	Okay, here's the Lich that I desgined the other day. He's CR 15 instead of 13 and uses the Core 3 books, Complete Arcane and Libiris Mortis. Oh yeah, he has the Vile Spell Ring from the Book of Vile Darkness, but that can easily be substituted for something else. Cleric(3 - CL 13)/Wizard(3 - CL 13)/True Necromancer(5)/Mystic Theurge(2) HP 12+12d12(96); Init +3; Speed 30' (6 squares) AC 22; tac 13; ffac 19 BAB/G: +6/+7 Attack: Paralyzing Touch, +7/+1 melee (1d8+5 negative energy, Will DC 20 for half; Fort DC 20 or permanent Paralysis) F/R/W: +9/+10/+21 (+2 if within 60' of minion) Stats: str 12; dex 16; con -; int 22; wis 20; cha 18; Skills: Lots (+8 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, Mive Silently, Search, Sense Motive and Spot) Feats: Spell Focus(necromancy)[1]; Scribe Scroll[1b]; Practiced Spellcaster(Wizard)[1]; Craft Wondorous[3]; Practiced Spellcaster(Cleric)[6]; Lifebond[9]; Black Lore of Moil[12] Special: Death Domain; Undeath Domain; Rebuke Undead (6/day @ 9th lvl); Fear Aura (Creatures <5HD within 60' Will DC 20 or fear spell); Turn Resistance +4(+4 if within 60' of minion); DR 15/magic AND bludgeoning; Immune to Cold, Elec, Polymorph, and Mind-Affecting; Undead Traits; Create Undead 2/day; Necromantic Prowess (+1); Zone of Desecration Gear: Ring of Mind Shielding (DMG 232); Black Robe of the Archmagi(DMG 265); Hand of Glory (DMG 258); Vile Spell Ring (BoVD 113); Headband of Intellect +2 (DMG 258) Spells: Arcane Spells as a 9th lvl Wizard. Caster Level 13, +1 for necromancy spells. Dive Spells as a 9th lvl Cleric. Caster Level 13, +1 for necromancy spells.
Vallah 07-18-05, 10:04 PM	The Lich is just sooo cool, by far one of the strongest big bads in the game if they are played to their strengths. with that in mind a couple of suggestions: Firstly most (if not all) have created their own new magics to torment would be aggressors (admittedly it's a little more work for you but nothing puts a group off balance more than throwing something new and unexpected at them). Seccondly if you're going to give him a sword (and he really shouldn't need one) why not make it a dancing sword? Since this will be the big fight against the big bad don't be afraid to lay it on thick. enjoy :)
MortalPlague 07-19-05, 03:55 AM	The idea behind the sword is to give the Lich something to use in a grapple. Sure, he could use spells, but it's easier to lay it on with a sword that does Con damage. I really wish there was a weapon that could knock opponents out of the grapple, though; that would be more useful. I'm not sure about corpsecrafter, but that sounds like an interesting feat. I'm going to give him a few undead warriors, probably four at level 9 or so. I'll make them different, too; one with a reach weapon, one with a bow, one tank, and one roguish one. The cold healing effect would be very cool. (Pun intended ;) ) The feats! I can't believe I missed his regular feats for 3rd, 6th, and 9th! Thanks for pointing that out. Perhaps some metamagic feats like quicken or empower?
Pellanor 07-19-05, 12:15 PM	If you're looking for something incase he gets grappled, why not just give him a ring of Freedom of Movement? If you're looking for some feats, try Lord of the Uttercold. Requires: Energy Substitution (cold), Knowledge (planes) 9, ability to cast a spell with the cold descriptor Benefit: Cold spells deal half negative energy damage. Spell Level Adjustment: - So what's that mean for you? You can prepare an Ice Ball (using Energy Substition to make a fireball do cold damage) that will not only damage the PCs, but also heal any undead minions in the area (just like the chill effect you have planned for the room). Even if the PCs are immune to cold, or gain resistance somehow they'll still take damage from the negative energy. Another fun metamagic feat: Enervate Spell Requirements: Non-Good Alignment, Must not have the ability to Turn Undead Benifit: Your spells do 150% damage to Living Creatures, but 50% damage to Constructs, Undead, and objects. Spell Level Adjustment +1 More evil metamagic feats: Fell Drain Requirement: - Benifit: Any living creature damaged by the spell gains 1 negative level Spell Level Adjustment +2 Toss this one onto a magic missle spell, and whip off 1 missle at 5 of the PCs for 1d4+1 dmg + 1 negative level. Here are the corpsecrafter feats for you to look at: Corpsecrafter Requires: — Benefit: Each Undead you animate or create with a Necromancy spell deals +1d6 Cold damage with its natural weapons. Bolster Resistance Requires: Corpsecrafter Benefit: Each Undead you animate or create with a Necromancy spell gains +4 Turn Resistance. Deadly Chill Requires: Corpsecrafter Benefit: Each Corporeal Undead you animate or create with a Necromancy spell gains a +4 Enhancement bonus to Strength and +2 hit pointers per Hit Die. Destructive Retribution Requires: Corpsecrafter Benefit: Each Corporeal Undead you animate or create with a Necromancy spell releases a 10’ burst of Negative Energy upon its destruction, dealing 1d6 points of damage plus an additional 1d6 per 2 HD (Ref˝, DC 15). Hardened Flesh Requires: Corpsecrafter Benefit: Each Corporeal Undead you animate or create with a Necromancy spell gains a +2 Natural Armor bonus to AC. Nimble Bones Requires: Corpsecrafter Benefit: Each Undead you animate or create with a Necromancy spell gains a +4 bonus on Initiative checks and a +10’ increase to its base land speed.
Shandrakor 07-20-05, 07:40 PM	If we're really trying to optimize Mr. Lich, I recommend you make him a Cleric 3/Walker in the Waste 10/Whatever 2. He hasn't lost 4 effective levels of spellcasting, he's tougher & scarier than a normal lich, & he's (presumably) a type of lich they've never, ever seen before. Only downside is WoW is from Sandstorm. If this were higher-level I'd recommend McJarvis' Mr. Icy Hot; Cleric 3/WoW10/Winterhaunt of Ilborhigu 7. If this were Epic level, and you wanted to retain Wizardly flavor, then we could do that. You need Craft Wonderous Item to make the Phylactery, and nobody else can make the Phylactery for you. Therefore, all liches have and need Craft Wonderous Item. Actually, if you give him a Psion minion of at least 7th level, you can have him get Psychic Reformationed, thereby negating the need for a sub-optimal feat choice. Corpsecrafter is a wonderful chain, particularly if taken before he becomes a Lich.