A little change of pace. [Archive] - Wizards Community

A little change of pace. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pevinsghost
02-14-06, 05:15 PM I recently had a conversation with Tenebrous_Sage about character optimization, and we ended up getting a little side tracked and I was wondering if anyone else had had a similar line of thought. We ended up talking about the most useless possible epic character, max/min-ing instead of min/max-ing so to speak. Technically it IS optimising a character for a purpose, it's just that the purpose is to have no real purpose, although it technically isn't ChOp because of the fact that this is less a hard numbers mental excercise and more a nebulous concept type one.

Just a little diversion we had and I became curious if anyone had any input. I'll post what I came up with a bit later if anyone else takes interest in the thread.

This does fall under acceptable posts according to the FAQ, but if requested by more than a few people or there are no replies in a resonable amount of time I'll clear this post myself to clear clutter from the boards. (I'm assuming that I can delete my own postings but am unclear on that.)
FiestFan
02-14-06, 07:20 PM :bored: Venerable 1/2 Elf Commoner 21 with Flaws Inattentive and Frail. Stats before aging:
STR 9 DEX 9 CON 10 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 18. Feats: [1] Skill Focus (Listen),[F] Skill Focus (Basket Weaving), [F] Skill Focus (Spot), [3] Skill Focus (Underwater Basket Weaving), [6] Skill Focus (Conceptual Underwater Basket Weaving), [9] Weapon Focus (Net), [12] Monkey Grip (for a bigger net), [15] Improved Crit (Net), [18] Alertness.

Anyone want to play this guy? :)
DBoot
02-14-06, 08:35 PM Why not just go Kobold?

Props for Conceptual Underwater Basketweaving though.
FiestFan
02-14-06, 08:47 PM I didn't go kobold because I didn't recall the stat adjustments, and I don't own the new Races of the Dragon, which means I might have inadvertantly opened my character - call him Nerf - up toward some avenue of legitimate optimization via a Feat choice that's a stepping stone for Kobold pwnage.
Mr. Dog
02-14-06, 08:57 PM I believe with the right flaws, one could have 1 hp at infinity-th level.

Additionally, NPC classes such as commoner can't pass 20, IIRC.

Perhaps an elf Wizard with 7 con (5 after racial penalties) and the Frail flaw (that reduces your gained HP from gaining a level by 1 to a minimum of zero).

At 1st level he has 1 HP. That's the only HP he'll ever have. As a new adventurer, he finds a scroll of Mordekainen's Disjunction and casts it at an artifact that is troubling him.

The rolls go badly, and he permanently loses all spellcasting ability.

Assuming he ever could level, what with being so frail and fate-hounded and all, he decides to take levels of commoner from now on to stay off the radar of angry gods.

At 21st level, he's got BAB+Epic AB of +10/+5, as weak as one can get without taking War Hulk or Survivor or by taking one level of a bazillion low-bab classes.

His base saves are +6/+6/+8, terrible indeed. Especially considering that his con mod of -3 drops the fort save to +3.

His previous exposure to an angry Ghost's Draining Touch dropped his Wisdom to 1 (Permanent Ability Drain), making his Will save only a +3.

Additionally, he was hit by a Crone's Cane weilded by a bitter old woman who, afterward, promptly planeshifted to limbo. The hit resulted in our poor elf sufferring 6 points of permanent strength and dexterity drain, and looks much older than he should. This made his strength score abysmal (he started as a wizard after all), and his dex score a lowly 6, giving him a net reflex save of +4.

So his modified saves are +3/+4/+3 at 21st level.

He was fairly intelligent, but sadly had next to no strength or fortitude, and caught a disease recently, Mindfire. He finally kicked the disease after a week or so and his amazing intelligence score of 23 (18+5 level-up bonuses) is now 4. He'll get his intelligence points back if he can remember to avoid further exposure to Mindfire.

So he's weak, frail, clumsy, stupid, unwise, and so-so in the likeability department, but he looks really old for an elf.

He has terrible saves, no class features that he can use except his Lizard familiar, who is dead, and his feat selection left a lot to be desired (I didn't go into it, but you can imagine).

Yeah. So our elf friend here is a worthless character. His name is Lucky.
ZeroEffect
02-14-06, 08:59 PM This has been done before and is repeated every six months or so. Pity there's no proper search function for the boards.
Pevinsghost
02-14-06, 08:59 PM I had thought of the epic level commoner, but had rejected it as the "easy way out." I must admit though that the heavy emphasis on basket weaving skills and net feats are a route I hadn't thought of. Have to watch out with all those similar skills though, DM might award some synergy between themmaking him more effective at his useless skills.
Varthalon
02-14-06, 09:27 PM How about a nice 21st level awakened mouse babarian.

Raging and power attack for full with my fine sized greataxe.... take a 1d2-13 damage please.
Pevinsghost
02-14-06, 09:38 PM Now that's what I'm talkin' about! That is so awesome!!
Skulan
02-14-06, 09:39 PM Useless builds have been done before, but I don't recall ever seeing an epic version. I can't think of anything noteworthy off the top of my head, but I haven't ever played epic. Couldn't you make an epic spell that turns you into a potato, or something?

-Skulan
Thindelock
02-14-06, 09:56 PM Any spellcaster with a 9 in their powerstat. Especially Sorcerer, since they don't even get the bonus wizard feats. A 9 in the primary stat means they can't even get their cantrips to function.

Combine with the low hit points idea mentioned above. Skill focus feats in Knowledge skills that you don't take ranks in, which cannot be used untrained.

It's not terribly clever, but it fits the bill. Me, I'd prefer playing the mouse mentioned above.
Thindelock
02-14-06, 09:57 PM Actually, can we make it a hamster instead? A miniature giant space hamster?
Varthalon
02-15-06, 12:18 AM "Go for the eyes Boo! The EYES! AAGH"
Pevinsghost
02-15-06, 02:50 AM "Lucky" is a very effective use of backstory to make the character useless. Reminds me of a second edition fighter minotaur I had created just to see how well I could min/max it. Ended up being doing 2D10+2D4+2xSTR mod per round as a 1st level character. Then once I had proven his cheesiness in game the character converted to a faith that had pacifism as one of it's tenants. The characters WIS was really low so he could be talked into fighting if the party was in trouble and actually needed him, but that took up a couple of combat rounds of one of the other characters doing nothing but talking to him persuading him. Was a really fun character to play.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pevinsghost 02-14-06, 05:15 PM	I recently had a conversation with Tenebrous_Sage about character optimization, and we ended up getting a little side tracked and I was wondering if anyone else had had a similar line of thought. We ended up talking about the most useless possible epic character, max/min-ing instead of min/max-ing so to speak. Technically it IS optimising a character for a purpose, it's just that the purpose is to have no real purpose, although it technically isn't ChOp because of the fact that this is less a hard numbers mental excercise and more a nebulous concept type one. Just a little diversion we had and I became curious if anyone had any input. I'll post what I came up with a bit later if anyone else takes interest in the thread. This does fall under acceptable posts according to the FAQ, but if requested by more than a few people or there are no replies in a resonable amount of time I'll clear this post myself to clear clutter from the boards. (I'm assuming that I can delete my own postings but am unclear on that.)
FiestFan 02-14-06, 07:20 PM	:bored: Venerable 1/2 Elf Commoner 21 with Flaws Inattentive and Frail. Stats before aging: STR 9 DEX 9 CON 10 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 18. Feats: [1] Skill Focus (Listen),[F] Skill Focus (Basket Weaving), [F] Skill Focus (Spot), [3] Skill Focus (Underwater Basket Weaving), [6] Skill Focus (Conceptual Underwater Basket Weaving), [9] Weapon Focus (Net), [12] Monkey Grip (for a bigger net), [15] Improved Crit (Net), [18] Alertness. Anyone want to play this guy? :)
DBoot 02-14-06, 08:35 PM	Why not just go Kobold? Props for Conceptual Underwater Basketweaving though.
FiestFan 02-14-06, 08:47 PM	I didn't go kobold because I didn't recall the stat adjustments, and I don't own the new Races of the Dragon, which means I might have inadvertantly opened my character - call him Nerf - up toward some avenue of legitimate optimization via a Feat choice that's a stepping stone for Kobold pwnage.
Mr. Dog 02-14-06, 08:57 PM	I believe with the right flaws, one could have 1 hp at infinity-th level. Additionally, NPC classes such as commoner can't pass 20, IIRC. Perhaps an elf Wizard with 7 con (5 after racial penalties) and the Frail flaw (that reduces your gained HP from gaining a level by 1 to a minimum of zero). At 1st level he has 1 HP. That's the only HP he'll ever have. As a new adventurer, he finds a scroll of Mordekainen's Disjunction and casts it at an artifact that is troubling him. The rolls go badly, and he permanently loses all spellcasting ability. Assuming he ever could level, what with being so frail and fate-hounded and all, he decides to take levels of commoner from now on to stay off the radar of angry gods. At 21st level, he's got BAB+Epic AB of +10/+5, as weak as one can get without taking War Hulk or Survivor or by taking one level of a bazillion low-bab classes. His base saves are +6/+6/+8, terrible indeed. Especially considering that his con mod of -3 drops the fort save to +3. His previous exposure to an angry Ghost's Draining Touch dropped his Wisdom to 1 (Permanent Ability Drain), making his Will save only a +3. Additionally, he was hit by a Crone's Cane weilded by a bitter old woman who, afterward, promptly planeshifted to limbo. The hit resulted in our poor elf sufferring 6 points of permanent strength and dexterity drain, and looks much older than he should. This made his strength score abysmal (he started as a wizard after all), and his dex score a lowly 6, giving him a net reflex save of +4. So his modified saves are +3/+4/+3 at 21st level. He was fairly intelligent, but sadly had next to no strength or fortitude, and caught a disease recently, Mindfire. He finally kicked the disease after a week or so and his amazing intelligence score of 23 (18+5 level-up bonuses) is now 4. He'll get his intelligence points back if he can remember to avoid further exposure to Mindfire. So he's weak, frail, clumsy, stupid, unwise, and so-so in the likeability department, but he looks really old for an elf. He has terrible saves, no class features that he can use except his Lizard familiar, who is dead, and his feat selection left a lot to be desired (I didn't go into it, but you can imagine). Yeah. So our elf friend here is a worthless character. His name is Lucky.
ZeroEffect 02-14-06, 08:59 PM	This has been done before and is repeated every six months or so. Pity there's no proper search function for the boards.
Pevinsghost 02-14-06, 08:59 PM	I had thought of the epic level commoner, but had rejected it as the "easy way out." I must admit though that the heavy emphasis on basket weaving skills and net feats are a route I hadn't thought of. Have to watch out with all those similar skills though, DM might award some synergy between themmaking him more effective at his useless skills.
Varthalon 02-14-06, 09:27 PM	How about a nice 21st level awakened mouse babarian. Raging and power attack for full with my fine sized greataxe.... take a 1d2-13 damage please.
Pevinsghost 02-14-06, 09:38 PM	Now that's what I'm talkin' about! That is so awesome!!
Skulan 02-14-06, 09:39 PM	Useless builds have been done before, but I don't recall ever seeing an epic version. I can't think of anything noteworthy off the top of my head, but I haven't ever played epic. Couldn't you make an epic spell that turns you into a potato, or something? -Skulan
Thindelock 02-14-06, 09:56 PM	Any spellcaster with a 9 in their powerstat. Especially Sorcerer, since they don't even get the bonus wizard feats. A 9 in the primary stat means they can't even get their cantrips to function. Combine with the low hit points idea mentioned above. Skill focus feats in Knowledge skills that you don't take ranks in, which cannot be used untrained. It's not terribly clever, but it fits the bill. Me, I'd prefer playing the mouse mentioned above.
Thindelock 02-14-06, 09:57 PM	Actually, can we make it a hamster instead? A miniature giant space hamster?
Varthalon 02-15-06, 12:18 AM	"Go for the eyes Boo! The EYES! AAGH"
Pevinsghost 02-15-06, 02:50 AM	"Lucky" is a very effective use of backstory to make the character useless. Reminds me of a second edition fighter minotaur I had created just to see how well I could min/max it. Ended up being doing 2D10+2D4+2xSTR mod per round as a 1st level character. Then once I had proven his cheesiness in game the character converted to a faith that had pacifism as one of it's tenants. The characters WIS was really low so he could be talked into fighting if the party was in trouble and actually needed him, but that took up a couple of combat rounds of one of the other characters doing nothing but talking to him persuading him. Was a really fun character to play.