A little critiquing needed on this ranger [Archive] - Wizards Community

A little critiquing needed on this ranger [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
NightOwl
11-17-03, 07:46 PM I know chris7476 made a most excellent faq on archers but the way our campaign is going, I can’t see how I could conceivably switch PrC’s that often.

I need a little critiquing on my human ranger. I am going to be following the archery path and looking for the appropriate skills and feats to be highly effective. I would like to play the role of scout / sniper. Although when melee is unavoidable, I will have a greatsword as backup and when I can up my Str with magic.

Here’s what I have so far. 32 point buy.
Str 12 (+1) / Dex 16 (+3) / Con 12 (+1) / Int 14 (+2) / Wis 14 (+2) / Cha 10 (0)

Skills (7 + Int) – Climb / Handle Animal (wolf) / Hide / Knowledge (geography) / Knowledge (nature) / Listen / Move Silent / Spot / Survival
* - I was thinking of climb so I could climb trees / buildings and snipe from there.

I still need a couple more feats (L15 & 18), any ideas?

I chose human as my first favored enemy. I don’t see any rule in the new 3.5 rules stating that a human, evil or good, cannot choose human for a favored enemy.

Feats, including class feats, so far:
L1 – 1st favored enemy (human), track, wild empathy, feat (point blank shot), human bonus feat (precise shot)
L2 – combat style (rapid shot)
L3 – endurance, feat (weapon focus: longbow)
L4 – animal companion (wolf), spells
L5 – 2nd favored enemy (magical beast)
L6 – improved combat style (manyshot), feat (far shot)
L7 – woodland stride
L8 – swift tracker
L9 – evasion, feat (improved critical: longbow)
L10 – 3rd favored enemy – giant
L11 – combat style mastery (improved precise shot)
L12 – feat (improved initiative)
L13 – camouflage
L14 – n/a
L15 – 4th favored enemy – aberration, feat (???)
L16 – n/a
L17 – hide in plain sight
L18 – feat (???)
L19 – n/a
L20 – 5th favored enemy – outsider (evil)

I am open to possibly one PrC, but no more than that.
MoogleEmpMog
11-17-03, 09:41 PM Even a single PrC (probably Deepwood Sniper) would almost be an improvement on a straight Ranger if you want to be a ranged combat expert.
If you can, look into the Wasp Bounty Hunter PrC from AEG's Rokugan - a very nice alternative PrC to the Deepwood Sniper, which, since you're human, you could qualify for. That would give your character a different flavor from all the DSs prowling the woods.

Rangers get 6 + Int skill points/level, not 7 + Int. I've never seen a WotC D&D class that grants odd numbered skill points. Don't know why.

Personally, I would dump the greatsword for both flavor and mechanics.
'Greatsword' and 'sneaky' just don't go together, IMO ;)
Besides, with your already low strength, you may as well dump it down to 10 and eventually pick up Weapon Finesse with one of those open feat slots. Then use a dagger or a rapier.

Keep in mind that this is spoken as the player of a Deepwood Sniper/Fighter/Order of the Bow Initiate/Ranger/Soldier (from d20 Modern), who was allowed by the DM to substitute firearms from the Iron Kingdoms setting for bows wherever mentioned. I haven't played a true archer in 3.0 or 3.5. :D
JosephKell
11-17-03, 09:54 PM Archer Ranger armed with a Composite Longbow and a Greatsword (or Greataxe) is great mechanically. Because you lose little from not having Two-Weapon Fighting, plus you get the Archery stuff. It is a win-win combo.

The great thing about not multiclassing is that you can be sure to boost all your skills equally.
NightOwl
11-18-03, 02:18 AM The 7+Int for the "human" ranger is the 6 normal + 1 for human.

I chose the greatsword simply due to my AC. I won't last long in a fight so I really don't want to be nickel and diming the enemy with dagger or rapier. I need my enemy to go down fast so I can give cover fire.

---

Thx Joseph. Any ideas on the final two feats?
Boondoggle
11-18-03, 03:47 AM I would switch con & int.

Drop weapon focus unless you need it for a prereq for something else (I didn't see anything). Pick up power attack (requires a str boost), it will be useful with your greatsword for removing obstacles.

For your character concept, you might want to check out the Shadow Scout PrC (OA).

Beyond that, feats that you might find useful: Stealthy, Dodge, Mobility, Shot on the Run, Alertness, Skill Focus (Hide), Extra Favored Enemy (MotW) & Power Critical (MotW).
Neonsamurai
11-18-03, 05:34 AM Consider the feat "extra favored enemy" from masters of the wild. Together with the "hunting" ability (also MoW) a ranger becomes a pretty damage monster.

The feat gives you an additional favored enemy, with comlpete progression of your other favored enemies while "hunting" doubles your favored enemy damage bonus.

A sample build that exploits this can be found here (http://minmax.neonsamurai.de/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=49&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)
nikademus
11-18-03, 05:53 AM Hello,
perhaps you could change your attribute array :

Human
Str 15 / Int 10 / Wis 12 / Dex 16 / Con 14 / Cha 10

I would take 9 or 11 Levels of Ranger and then look for a PrC.

Another build :

If you are allowed to take PrC from Defenders of the faith and FRCS then you could go :

Wood Elf (+2 str / +2 Dex / -2 Int / -2 Con

Str 14 (6)/ Int 12(4) / Wis 12(4) / Dex 16 (10)/ Con 14 (6)/ Cha 10
Str 16 / Int 10 / Wis 12 / Dex 18 / Con 12 / Cha 10

Follower of Solonor Thelandira

01) Ranger 1
02) Cleric 1
03) Cleric 2
04) Cleric 3
05)-10) Ranger 2-6
11-20) Templar 1-10

Gives you Weapon spec, templar goddies and some spells

Nikademus
Ranthanas
11-18-03, 07:10 AM Somehow I can't see the combination of Ranger and Templar myself. (One moves around, one guards temples).

IMO, ranger is almost as good an archer as you can get for the first 11 levels. Hold on for the twelfth level to get +1 to all saves. After that, you have three basic choices if you only want one PrC.

Firstly comes the Deepwood Sniper, which keeps the Ranger theme. It also allows you to save a feat which should probably be spent on Dodge, setting up Mobility (which is useful to a combat archer in its own right and sets up Close Combat Shot at epic- I wouldn't bother with Shot on the Run as you can't combine it with Manyshot)

Second option is the Peerless Archer. I'm not as keen on this for a ranger (he's more of a fighter type) and Improved Precise Shot treads on his toes pretty badly.

Third option is to not go for a direct archery PrC and instead concentrate on the stealthy abilities with Horizon Walker (or simmilar) and be able to go anywhere, see anything and sneak up on anyone. This also prevents you getting pinned down in combat.

As for the greatsword, that's a weapon of last resort. With a good dex and a bow, you'll do more damage moving back and manyshotting. Carry it by all means but don't expect much from it.
Funny Slaughter
11-18-03, 08:55 AM Somehow I can't see the combination of Ranger and Templar myself. (One moves around, one guards temples).

thats exactly the point of view i started with on the boards.
there were plenty of discussions and at some time i got convinced that a templar can defeat the temples interests while adventuring. i see it quite as a code of conduct, you have to follow the directions the temple administration gives you.
"jump" means jump, nothing for the more independant player.

i like the pure ranger-build. with only one PrC allowed i think epic ranger progression is quite an option, especially if you can get many encounters against your favorite enemy.

ranger/DS is also nice, but if you are heading into far epic the arrow creation of the peerless archer gets quite nice.

personally i like the ranger/horizon walker combi best, giving much variability beside of just shooting arrows.

gs
Funny
greymarch
11-18-03, 01:58 PM Please, I beg of you...no, I plead with you, take improved initiative with one of your feat slots! Its the best feat in the whole game!

Afterall, your opponent cannot harm you if he is already dead!
Neonsamurai
11-18-03, 02:57 PM :uh-huh: I'd rather take power attack before i take improved intiative ^^
NightOwl
11-18-03, 03:58 PM I'm impressed with the hunting ability, samurai. Once I can afford it, I'll be buying that ability.

As for the power attack, this PC, I just don't see it. He is all about the bow and the gr.sword is a backup. Besides, guantlets or belt of Str will be the only way I could take that feat, and our fighter will have first take on an item like that. I'm concentrating more on Dex. I've died more than once on the good ole touch attacks.

I'm kind of liking the peerless archer, but I'm also liking the higher level abilities of the solo ranger. Also a couple of the prereq's of the PA will never be used in a campaign of this sort. We hardly ever rest for more than a couple of days then gone again. Won't have time to craft anything.

The imp initiative is definately something I will be looking into taking earlier than L12 like I have now.

I thank you for the help, any other ideas / suggestions?
JosephKell
11-18-03, 06:41 PM Originally posted by greymarch
Please, I beg of you...no, I plead with you, take improved initiative with one of your feat slots! Its the best feat in the whole game!

Afterall, your opponent cannot harm you if he is already dead! That and Quick Draw. (These are at the top of the Munchkin's Feat list...)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NightOwl 11-17-03, 07:46 PM	I know chris7476 made a most excellent faq on archers but the way our campaign is going, I can’t see how I could conceivably switch PrC’s that often. I need a little critiquing on my human ranger. I am going to be following the archery path and looking for the appropriate skills and feats to be highly effective. I would like to play the role of scout / sniper. Although when melee is unavoidable, I will have a greatsword as backup and when I can up my Str with magic. Here’s what I have so far. 32 point buy. Str 12 (+1) / Dex 16 (+3) / Con 12 (+1) / Int 14 (+2) / Wis 14 (+2) / Cha 10 (0) Skills (7 + Int) – Climb / Handle Animal (wolf) / Hide / Knowledge (geography) / Knowledge (nature) / Listen / Move Silent / Spot / Survival * - I was thinking of climb so I could climb trees / buildings and snipe from there. I still need a couple more feats (L15 & 18), any ideas? I chose human as my first favored enemy. I don’t see any rule in the new 3.5 rules stating that a human, evil or good, cannot choose human for a favored enemy. Feats, including class feats, so far: L1 – 1st favored enemy (human), track, wild empathy, feat (point blank shot), human bonus feat (precise shot) L2 – combat style (rapid shot) L3 – endurance, feat (weapon focus: longbow) L4 – animal companion (wolf), spells L5 – 2nd favored enemy (magical beast) L6 – improved combat style (manyshot), feat (far shot) L7 – woodland stride L8 – swift tracker L9 – evasion, feat (improved critical: longbow) L10 – 3rd favored enemy – giant L11 – combat style mastery (improved precise shot) L12 – feat (improved initiative) L13 – camouflage L14 – n/a L15 – 4th favored enemy – aberration, feat (???) L16 – n/a L17 – hide in plain sight L18 – feat (???) L19 – n/a L20 – 5th favored enemy – outsider (evil) I am open to possibly one PrC, but no more than that.
MoogleEmpMog 11-17-03, 09:41 PM	Even a single PrC (probably Deepwood Sniper) would almost be an improvement on a straight Ranger if you want to be a ranged combat expert. If you can, look into the Wasp Bounty Hunter PrC from AEG's Rokugan - a very nice alternative PrC to the Deepwood Sniper, which, since you're human, you could qualify for. That would give your character a different flavor from all the DSs prowling the woods. Rangers get 6 + Int skill points/level, not 7 + Int. I've never seen a WotC D&D class that grants odd numbered skill points. Don't know why. Personally, I would dump the greatsword for both flavor and mechanics. 'Greatsword' and 'sneaky' just don't go together, IMO ;) Besides, with your already low strength, you may as well dump it down to 10 and eventually pick up Weapon Finesse with one of those open feat slots. Then use a dagger or a rapier. Keep in mind that this is spoken as the player of a Deepwood Sniper/Fighter/Order of the Bow Initiate/Ranger/Soldier (from d20 Modern), who was allowed by the DM to substitute firearms from the Iron Kingdoms setting for bows wherever mentioned. I haven't played a true archer in 3.0 or 3.5. :D
JosephKell 11-17-03, 09:54 PM	Archer Ranger armed with a Composite Longbow and a Greatsword (or Greataxe) is great mechanically. Because you lose little from not having Two-Weapon Fighting, plus you get the Archery stuff. It is a win-win combo. The great thing about not multiclassing is that you can be sure to boost all your skills equally.
NightOwl 11-18-03, 02:18 AM	The 7+Int for the "human" ranger is the 6 normal + 1 for human. I chose the greatsword simply due to my AC. I won't last long in a fight so I really don't want to be nickel and diming the enemy with dagger or rapier. I need my enemy to go down fast so I can give cover fire. --- Thx Joseph. Any ideas on the final two feats?
Boondoggle 11-18-03, 03:47 AM	I would switch con & int. Drop weapon focus unless you need it for a prereq for something else (I didn't see anything). Pick up power attack (requires a str boost), it will be useful with your greatsword for removing obstacles. For your character concept, you might want to check out the Shadow Scout PrC (OA). Beyond that, feats that you might find useful: Stealthy, Dodge, Mobility, Shot on the Run, Alertness, Skill Focus (Hide), Extra Favored Enemy (MotW) & Power Critical (MotW).
Neonsamurai 11-18-03, 05:34 AM	Consider the feat "extra favored enemy" from masters of the wild. Together with the "hunting" ability (also MoW) a ranger becomes a pretty damage monster. The feat gives you an additional favored enemy, with comlpete progression of your other favored enemies while "hunting" doubles your favored enemy damage bonus. A sample build that exploits this can be found here (http://minmax.neonsamurai.de/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=49&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)
nikademus 11-18-03, 05:53 AM	Hello, perhaps you could change your attribute array : Human Str 15 / Int 10 / Wis 12 / Dex 16 / Con 14 / Cha 10 I would take 9 or 11 Levels of Ranger and then look for a PrC. Another build : If you are allowed to take PrC from Defenders of the faith and FRCS then you could go : Wood Elf (+2 str / +2 Dex / -2 Int / -2 Con Str 14 (6)/ Int 12(4) / Wis 12(4) / Dex 16 (10)/ Con 14 (6)/ Cha 10 Str 16 / Int 10 / Wis 12 / Dex 18 / Con 12 / Cha 10 Follower of Solonor Thelandira 01) Ranger 1 02) Cleric 1 03) Cleric 2 04) Cleric 3 05)-10) Ranger 2-6 11-20) Templar 1-10 Gives you Weapon spec, templar goddies and some spells Nikademus
Ranthanas 11-18-03, 07:10 AM	Somehow I can't see the combination of Ranger and Templar myself. (One moves around, one guards temples). IMO, ranger is almost as good an archer as you can get for the first 11 levels. Hold on for the twelfth level to get +1 to all saves. After that, you have three basic choices if you only want one PrC. Firstly comes the Deepwood Sniper, which keeps the Ranger theme. It also allows you to save a feat which should probably be spent on Dodge, setting up Mobility (which is useful to a combat archer in its own right and sets up Close Combat Shot at epic- I wouldn't bother with Shot on the Run as you can't combine it with Manyshot) Second option is the Peerless Archer. I'm not as keen on this for a ranger (he's more of a fighter type) and Improved Precise Shot treads on his toes pretty badly. Third option is to not go for a direct archery PrC and instead concentrate on the stealthy abilities with Horizon Walker (or simmilar) and be able to go anywhere, see anything and sneak up on anyone. This also prevents you getting pinned down in combat. As for the greatsword, that's a weapon of last resort. With a good dex and a bow, you'll do more damage moving back and manyshotting. Carry it by all means but don't expect much from it.
Funny Slaughter 11-18-03, 08:55 AM	Somehow I can't see the combination of Ranger and Templar myself. (One moves around, one guards temples). thats exactly the point of view i started with on the boards. there were plenty of discussions and at some time i got convinced that a templar can defeat the temples interests while adventuring. i see it quite as a code of conduct, you have to follow the directions the temple administration gives you. "jump" means jump, nothing for the more independant player. i like the pure ranger-build. with only one PrC allowed i think epic ranger progression is quite an option, especially if you can get many encounters against your favorite enemy. ranger/DS is also nice, but if you are heading into far epic the arrow creation of the peerless archer gets quite nice. personally i like the ranger/horizon walker combi best, giving much variability beside of just shooting arrows. gs Funny
greymarch 11-18-03, 01:58 PM	Please, I beg of you...no, I plead with you, take improved initiative with one of your feat slots! Its the best feat in the whole game! Afterall, your opponent cannot harm you if he is already dead!
Neonsamurai 11-18-03, 02:57 PM	:uh-huh: I'd rather take power attack before i take improved intiative ^^
NightOwl 11-18-03, 03:58 PM	I'm impressed with the hunting ability, samurai. Once I can afford it, I'll be buying that ability. As for the power attack, this PC, I just don't see it. He is all about the bow and the gr.sword is a backup. Besides, guantlets or belt of Str will be the only way I could take that feat, and our fighter will have first take on an item like that. I'm concentrating more on Dex. I've died more than once on the good ole touch attacks. I'm kind of liking the peerless archer, but I'm also liking the higher level abilities of the solo ranger. Also a couple of the prereq's of the PA will never be used in a campaign of this sort. We hardly ever rest for more than a couple of days then gone again. Won't have time to craft anything. The imp initiative is definately something I will be looking into taking earlier than L12 like I have now. I thank you for the help, any other ideas / suggestions?
JosephKell 11-18-03, 06:41 PM	Originally posted by greymarch Please, I beg of you...no, I plead with you, take improved initiative with one of your feat slots! Its the best feat in the whole game! Afterall, your opponent cannot harm you if he is already dead! That and Quick Draw. (These are at the top of the Munchkin's Feat list...)