Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chicken_of_Doom 01-01-07, 07:21 PM	So, lately after aquiring Tome of Battle, my friends and I have been arguing over which martial class is the best in a fight. One of my friends says that a fighter can beat any of the other martial classes from all the published books. Another claims that a monk would win any fight. I think that a swordsage would be able to slaughter either of these classes, as well as most, if not all, other martial classes. If built right. So one of our friends agreed to DM a tournament between us. We are all level 20. 55 point buy (don't ask). Our armor and weapons each have a max of a +5 enchantment. Meaning if you want a flaming sword, it's a +4 flaming. For items like belt of giant strength, we can go up to +6. And we can have as many as we want, but simular ability bonuses do not stack. (belt of giant strength and gauntlets of ogre power for example). So, I'm going sword sage. Any suggestions?
X-Codes 01-01-07, 08:12 PM	Human, Pump Dex, get Shadow Blade, use a Brilliant Energy Spiked Chain, attack with Diamond Nightmare Blade S: 28 (13 points, +6 belt, +5 tome) D: 34 (16 points, +6 gloves, +5 tome, +5 level) C: 26 (8 points, +6 bracers, +5 tome) I: 13 (5 points) W: 28 (13 points, +6 amulet, +5 tome) C: 8 (0 points) Attack: 1d20 + 15 (BAB) + 12 (Dex) + 1 (Enhancement) + 1 (Weapon Focus: Shadow Hand) - 15 (Power Attack), attack is against flat-footed, touch AC (save Natural Armor) Monk's AC: 10+1(Insight)+9(28 Wis)+4(Monk)=24 (55% chance to hit) Fighter's AC: 10+1(Insight)+5(Natural)=16 (95% chance to hit) Damage: 8d4(Shortsword)+52(Str)+48(Dex)+36(Wis)+ 4(enhancement)+120(Power Attack -15) = 280 average damage Monk's HP: 20d8+160(26 Con)=254 HP Fighter's HP: 20d10+200 (30 Con)=315 HP Both you and they can add more piecemeal bonuses to attack, damage, and AC. With Improved Initiative, you have a +16 Initiative bonus, which almost certainly means you go first. The Monk will be the tough one, but his attacks and damage should be low, allowing you plenty of time to recover your Diamond Nightmare Blade and attack again. One hit and he's dead.
Neo_Leviathan 01-01-07, 11:37 PM	Human, Pump Dex, get Shadow Blade, use a Brilliant Energy Spiked Chain, attack with Diamond Nightmare Blade S: 28 (13 points, +6 belt, +5 tome) D: 34 (16 points, +6 gloves, +5 tome, +5 level) C: 26 (8 points, +6 bracers, +5 tome) I: 13 (5 points) W: 28 (13 points, +6 amulet, +5 tome) C: 8 (0 points) Attack: 1d20 + 15 (BAB) + 12 (Dex) + 1 (Enhancement) + 1 (Weapon Focus: Shadow Hand) - 15 (Power Attack), attack is against flat-footed, touch AC (save Natural Armor) Monk's AC: 10+1(Insight)+9(28 Wis)+4(Monk)=24 (55% chance to hit) Fighter's AC: 10+1(Insight)+5(Natural)=16 (95% chance to hit) Damage: 8d4(Shortsword)+52(Str)+48(Dex)+36(Wis)+ 4(enhancement)+120(Power Attack -15) = 280 average damage Monk's HP: 20d8+160(26 Con)=254 HP Fighter's HP: 20d10+200 (30 Con)=315 HP Both you and they can add more piecemeal bonuses to attack, damage, and AC. With Improved Initiative, you have a +16 Initiative bonus, which almost certainly means you go first. The Monk will be the tough one, but his attacks and damage should be low, allowing you plenty of time to recover your Diamond Nightmare Blade and attack again. One hit and he's dead. I believe your final number should be 16, not 4, for the enhancement, since you seem to be calculating over 4 attacks in the round, with that in mind shouldn't you be halving the damage that you're getting from your stats? Unless Diamond Nightmare Blade lets you do x8 damage from your stats, in which case it's moronic. Also, your 'to hit' seems to be only including his highest BaB, rather than the -5 per iterative attack. Personally, I feel that there is no single 'best' one of the martial classes. I built a barbarian in 10 minutes that minced a very well made SwordSage, no magic items on either side. A SwordSage will dance around and laugh at a heavy-armored, not very manouverable 'tank' style fighter, but a Barbarian will eat a swordsage for breakfast. I havn't explored the other martial classes but I'm sure one of them will tear a barbarian's arms off and beat him to death with them, and another will be torn up by a chain-monkey.
Timlagor 01-02-07, 01:33 PM	Crusaders are generally considered to be the best martial class. Warblades are generally better than Swordsages. 1-1 combat is a very poor way to evaluate a class's value to a group. 55pt buy hugely favours the Monk since it makes the MAD so much less of a problem. It also matters how many books are available for Feats etc.