A little help with a Mounted Solamnic Knight? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A little help with a Mounted Solamnic Knight? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mylakovich
01-26-06, 09:37 PM I've been shanghied into this DragonLance game that this one dude is running, and he seems to be in love with these Solemnic Knights (not sure about the spelling on that...) He's got everyone starting out at level 5, and when I told him, "What the heck, I'll be one of those Knights...", he got all excited. Well, I barly know the guy, but if I'll have the DM's favor, I might as well cheese it as much as I can. After all, the rest of the party has all sorts of broken silver dragon blood mage craziness, so whatever.

Anywhoo, here's my stats (to the best of my memory, he kept the sheet after character creation):

STR 15
DEX 12
STA 16
WIS 9
INT 13
CHA 18

For starters, I took 5 levels of fighter, even though the prerequisites for Knight of the Crown could be met at level 4:

IIRC:
Human
LG alignment
BAB 4
Knowlege: religion, nobility 2 ranks
Diplomacy 2 ranks
(feat) Code of Conduct Oath (or somthing like that, a bonus to resist breaking oath)

Anyway, the Big Cheese about the Knight of the Crown is their CHA related bonuses. They get the ability to increase their STR a couple times per day, resistance to fear, better manuverability in heavy armor, amoung other things.

I'm hoping if possible in this game to take mounted combat related feats and eventually become a Cavalier, taking advantage of mounted charges with a Dragonlance.

The DM has stated for flavor reasons that my character should not use any magic items, (which may or may not nerf me) but otherwise, money was no object. I figure I'll just masterwork everything I have, such as a lance, full plate armor, heavy shield, an uber warhorse, fullplate barding for said horse...

I'm sure the mounted warrior has come up before. Being a complete forum noob (this is my first post), I'd appreciate any help or direction I can get.

Outstanding questions:
What should I do with skills? Obviously, meeting prerequisites, but after that I'm thinking of maxing diplomacy (class skill for Knight of the Crown), also I'm thinking crafting (armorsmithing), but other than that, I don't know.

I'm hoping to have a few feats left over for fluff, like Negotiator, but obviously, that's secondary to pulling off the God Charge of Doom.

Any questions, I'll do my best to fill in anything I missed. The only DnD book I own is the PHB 3.5, so the Dragonlance Campaign Setting, Complete Warrior, and any other usefull literary sources are not available to me at the moment.

Thanks a lot!
FiestFan
01-26-06, 10:10 PM Disclaimer: It's been a long time since I played in Dragonlance.

Generally, more than 2 levels of Fighter are a suboptimal choice. See also the Commandments of Optimization thread, for the proclamation 'Though shalt never take an odd number of Fighter levels (except 1 level).' Presuming it's available to you, Fighter 2/Paladin 3 is a more optimized choice. Your high CHA makes this especially attractive, though I'd want to swap INT and WIS.

What should I do with skills? Obviously, meeting prerequisites, but after that I'm thinking of maxing diplomacy (class skill for Knight of the Crown), also I'm thinking crafting (armorsmithing), but other than that, I don't know.
Max Ride and Handle Animal, as well as Sense Motive - even if you keep that abyssmal WIS. Diplomacy without Sense Motive = Con game victim waiting to happen. Dropping the INT down to 9 (as I advocate) makes this more of a balancing act. I'd also want to sprinkle some Bluff or Intimidate, for times when being Mr Nice Guy doesn't produce the right results. Hmmm, :thinks: perhaps you'll want to keep the INT and swap WIS for DEX.
Mylakovich
01-27-06, 08:29 AM Hey, thanks. Yeah, you're right about the levels of fighter dilemma. Unfortunately, there is no paladin base class available. Perhaps taking levels of cleric, or ranger...

As far as I can see, taking 4 levels of fighter would get me the base requisites for Knight of the Crown, plus I could get Weapon Specialization (Lance) for later.

Yeah, I'll see what I can do about the WIS. Fortunatly, the other PCs probably are going to be paranoid up the wazoo...

What are the prerquisites for Cavalier, if I may ask? I'm thinking if I can find the minimum number of base class levels to qualify for 1 or more prestige classes, I can start piling them on.

PS, did I spell "Solamnic" correctly?
Prominence
01-27-06, 08:58 AM Well, the 'solamnic knights' have three prestige classes- each one more paladin/cleric then the previous. The last one even gives divine grace. You may want cleric 1 to take advantage of this (and it's free weapon focus anyway).

If you're going for a mounted dragonlance knight, there's probably no better PrC for you than Dragon Rider. It gives you a dragon cohort, though I suggest you be small sized if you decide to go this way.
Reinhart
01-27-06, 10:34 AM Right, these guys are being pretty helpful but I just wanted to point out that the first thing you need to do is figure out how far you're going with the Solamnic training . . .

If you want to go all the way to Knight of the Rose you must get into Knight of the Crown and Knight of the Sword as quickly as possible. Solamnic knight training is even harder to min/max than Folculyn Lyrist. I recommend just taking Knight of the Crown if you just want to take some Solamnic Knighthood but aren't interested in divine spellcasting, etc.

And yes, Dragon Rider is probably one of the best mounted combat prestige classes available to you.
Mylakovich
01-27-06, 08:28 PM Good to know about the Dragon Rider, I'll see about that.

Thanks a lot!
Father Dale
01-27-06, 10:15 PM From a character optimization standpoint, the best thing to do is get to Knight of the Rose, taking the first level at 11th (which I believe is the earliest it can possibly be done given the requirements, barring the use of the Paladin base class. The difficulty is in meeting the BAB requirement prior to 10th lvl). Knights of the Rose get full BAB, full divine spellcasting, and 2 good saving throws. I don't think there is any class in all of D&D that gives that kind of benefit.

Best would be starting either Fighter 1/Cleric 3 or Fighter 2/Cleric 2 and then going Knight of the Sword. Knights of the Sword get Diehard for free at 3rd level, which is also a prereq for Knight of the Crown. So at that point you would be Fighter 1/Cleric 3/KoS 3. Then three levels of Knight of the Crown. At that point you could take Knight of the Rose. At level 20 you would have BAB +18 and 8th lvl Cleric spellcasting.

Note that the Mystic class would work just as well, although for roleplay purposes a cleric of Kiri-Jolith makes more sense. Also, Mystics generally don't get turn undead, which clerics of course do, and that can be used with your high charisma to power some good divine feats, such as Divine Might or Divine Vigor. (However, Sword knights get undead turning at lvl 2, so it wouldn't matter at that point for purposes of divine feats.)

However, if you are looking at Dragon Rider, you might want to consider a different route. You could easily do it by going Knight of the Rose, needing to only add Resist Dragonfear as a feat to qualify for Dragon Rider since the Rose Knight meets all the other prereqs (except for Skill ranks).

But a Cavlier would be a much better fit for a Dragon Rider. Best for that might be Fighter 4/Knight of the Crown 4/Cavalier X/Dragonrider X. If you add Cleric levels or Crown Knight levels, it will significantly delay when you could take Cavlier and Dragonrider since both of those have very high BAB requirements (8 and 10 respectively). Still, cleric levels might be worth it for the undead turning for divine feats.

You would have a total of 12 levels to split between Cavalier and Dragonrider. One drawback to Dragonrider is the 3/4 BAB progression as opposed to the full BAB progression of the Cavalier. Also, a hallmark level for Cavalier is 6th lvl, which gives the full mounted attack ability, so that would probably be the minimum Cavalier levels to take. To maximize saves and BAB, Cavalier 8/Dragonrider 4 would be best, losing only one BAB from the 12 levels and giving a total base save bonus of 10/6/7. However, Cavalier 6/Dragonrider 6 would work as well, although it would lose an additional BAB and would give base save bonus of 10/7/7. But either way works well, as neither class would gain or lose any real improtant benefits between those two levels.

Theres also a feat in the Dragonlance Campaign Setting that would be very useful for a Dragon Rider. It lets you use your mounts STR score for determining damage on a charge. However, the weapon must make a DC 8 Fort save or be shattered when you do this. Not sure I would want to risk using that with a Dragonlance, since you'll eventually get a natural 1. (Although this could work well with another feat or ability that lets you reroll a save or something like that.) But if its used while on the back of a Dragon, and with the Cavlaiers deadly charge....

One final note. The Dragonlance campaign setting is a fantastic setting to play in. My group plays most of our campaigns in Dragonlance. Its not as big a world as Forgotten Realms, and theres not nearly as much material out there for it, but it has much more character than any other setting. If you haven't read any of the books, I would suggest reading the Dragonlance Chronicles and the Dragonlance Legends series. Both are fantastic books. While the authors (Weiss and Hickman) aren't by any means Tolkein, they are the next best thing. Far better stuff than that Harry Potter nonsense, thats for certain. And the Death Gate Cycle, also by Weiss and Hickman but not a Dragonlance novel, is also one of the best fantasy/sci-fi series out there, and it realy explores different possiblities for how elves and dwarves can be treated.
Blade2718
01-28-06, 01:08 AM A basic build for a Knight of Solamnia is Fighter 2/Cleric 3/Knight of the Crown 1/Knight of the Sword 3/Knight of the Rose 10/X 2, where X is any base class or PrC you can imagine that you qualify for. The reason for this is to maximize your spellcasting levels, which the latter two PrCs advance.

Note that you are required to have the Crown Knight's first level ability to enter Sword Knight, and the 3rd level ability of the Sword Knight to be a Rose Knight. For the last two levels, I like Legendary Tactician or Dragon Rider.

If your emphasis will be on aerial combat, then early entry into Dragon Rider is required. Tremendous Charge will let you use your mount's Str (in the Dragon Rider's case, his dragon's Str) for your Str score when calculating damage on a mounted charge. Cavalier is good, but I think you should maximize aerial combat first, then improve all-around mounted combat.
Mylakovich
01-28-06, 01:36 AM Wow, thanks a lot for that All-Out imput. You all have been a great help. I'll jumble this info around, and put something together.

Although I guess it would be a better question for the Character development board, how should I role-play the character to be true to the theme of the setting? I suppose I ought to read some of the Dragonlance books and get a better idea of how to play it out.

While devine spellcasting seems like the way to go for ubarness, I think I may stick with a straight combat nut. The fighter 4/ crown knight 4/ cavalier 6/ dragonrider 6 seems like what I might do for now, and the Tremendous charge sounds pretty nasty once I get that dragon to sit atop (I remember seeing it in the book while flipping through, and thinking of a STR 20 horse, but now I see the true cheese).

I can figure out the feats and skills, I think. Thanks a ton!
Father Dale
01-28-06, 02:02 AM A basic build for a Knight of Solamnia is Fighter 2/Cleric 3/Knight of the Crown 1/Knight of the Sword 3/Knight of the Rose 10/X 2, where X is any base class or PrC you can imagine that you qualify for. The reason for this is to maximize your spellcasting levels, which the latter two PrCs advance.

The only problem with this build is that you wouldn't have the BAB to qualify for Knight of the Rose at that level. You need a BAB of +8 to qualify for Rose Knight. Since you need to be a Knight of the Sword first, you will lose at least one BAB from that. And since you need to cast divine spells to be a Knight of the Sword, you will lose another BAB by taking a divine spellcasting class. Thus, the earliest you could get a +8 BAB would be at 10th lvl, letting you take the first Knight of the Rose level at 11. And thus, if you took 10 levels of Rose Knight you would be 20th level.

Also, to get Dragon Rider you need BAB +10, meaning the earliest you could take it would be 11th level so long as all your classes are full BAB classes. Cavalier can be qualified for at lvl 8, requiring a +8 BAB, so it could be taken at level 9. Thus, if going the full martial/nonspellcasting route, you can squeeze in a couple levels of cavlier before getting Dragonrider. Although for a LG medium sized character, the earliest you can get a suitable dragon mount is level 13 (for a very young gold dragon mount), so taking Dragon Rider before that might not be all that beneficial.

The real problem with going Rose Knight first and then Dragonrider is the heavy feat investments. To meet all the class prereqs you'd have to take Honorbound, Endurance, Resist Dragonfear, Mounted Combat, and Leadership, and only one of those is a fighter bonus feat. If you don't take 3 levels of Crown knight you would also need the Diehard feat. Then you'd want to squeeze in Ride by attack and Spirited Charge. And at that point you are realy hurting on feats.

Thats why I would suggest for Dragonrider going full martial with fighter 4/Knight of the Crown 4/Cavlier and then Dragonrider. You could even do Fighter 6/Knight of the Crown 2 instead, althought those two levels of Crown Knight give the diehard feat, charisma bonus to saves against compulsions, and another daily use of Strenght of Honor. Thats probably not worth the additional feat from fighter.

So I would suggest the following:

Human
1 Fighter 1 (Mounted Combat, Ride By Attack, Power Attack)
2 fighter 2 (Weapon Focus: Lance)
3 Fighter 3 (Honorbound)
4 Fighter 4 (Spirited Charge)
5 Knight of the Crown 1
6 Knight of the Crown 2 (Resist Dragonfear)
7 Knight of the Crown 3
8 Knight of the Crown 4
9 Cavalier 1 (Improved Crit: Lance)
10 Cavalier 2
11 Cavalier 3
12 Cavalier 4 (Leadership)
13 Dragonrider (getting young gold dragon as mount)
....
Being sure to have 2 ranks in Diplomacy, Knowledge (religion) and Ride as of 4th level, and 4 ranks in Handle Animal, Knowledge (nobility), and 6 ranks in Ride as of 8th lvl. Note that Knowledge (nobility) is a class skill for Crown Knights, but Handle Animal is not, so you'd want to try to satisfy that with the fighter levels first. Otherwise the only cross classing is the Diplomacy and Knowledge (religion).
Father Dale
01-28-06, 02:13 AM I'd suggest reading the books for some ideas on how to play. Plus, they are great books anyways.

A couple ways to play a Knight of Solamnia.

First, as the normal paladin type, help the poor and down trodden, protect the innocent, punish the guilty, so on and so forth. This could be done in the holier than thou type, but it could also be in a more self-sacrificing manner. If you read the books look at how Sturm Brightblade is...hes the ideal Knight of Solamnia. He gave up his life for his friends. (Theres more to him than that though!)

Second, the Knights of Solamnia are often filled with those seeking their own personal power and prestige through the knighthood. There are lots of internal politics in the Knights, and sometimes this turns a bit dour. So you could be a lawful good guy but still have a heavy focus on your own ambition. This would be more difficult to play but could be rather rewarding depending on how your DM runs the campaign.

Theres other ways to play a Knight of course, but those two spring to mind because they were readily apparent in the books.
Blade2718
01-28-06, 10:32 AM The only problem with this build is that you wouldn't have the BAB to qualify for Knight of the Rose at that level. You need a BAB of +8 to qualify for Rose Knight. Since you need to be a Knight of the Sword first, you will lose at least one BAB from that. And since you need to cast divine spells to be a Knight of the Sword, you will lose another BAB by taking a divine spellcasting class. Thus, the earliest you could get a +8 BAB would be at 10th lvl, letting you take the first Knight of the Rose level at 11. And thus, if you took 10 levels of Rose Knight you would be 20th level.OK, Fighter 2/Cleric 4/Crown 1/Sword 3/Rose 10/X 1.

This is a moot point, though, since the OP is looking for fast access to Dragon Rider.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mylakovich 01-26-06, 09:37 PM	I've been shanghied into this DragonLance game that this one dude is running, and he seems to be in love with these Solemnic Knights (not sure about the spelling on that...) He's got everyone starting out at level 5, and when I told him, "What the heck, I'll be one of those Knights...", he got all excited. Well, I barly know the guy, but if I'll have the DM's favor, I might as well cheese it as much as I can. After all, the rest of the party has all sorts of broken silver dragon blood mage craziness, so whatever. Anywhoo, here's my stats (to the best of my memory, he kept the sheet after character creation): STR 15 DEX 12 STA 16 WIS 9 INT 13 CHA 18 For starters, I took 5 levels of fighter, even though the prerequisites for Knight of the Crown could be met at level 4: IIRC: Human LG alignment BAB 4 Knowlege: religion, nobility 2 ranks Diplomacy 2 ranks (feat) Code of Conduct Oath (or somthing like that, a bonus to resist breaking oath) Anyway, the Big Cheese about the Knight of the Crown is their CHA related bonuses. They get the ability to increase their STR a couple times per day, resistance to fear, better manuverability in heavy armor, amoung other things. I'm hoping if possible in this game to take mounted combat related feats and eventually become a Cavalier, taking advantage of mounted charges with a Dragonlance. The DM has stated for flavor reasons that my character should not use any magic items, (which may or may not nerf me) but otherwise, money was no object. I figure I'll just masterwork everything I have, such as a lance, full plate armor, heavy shield, an uber warhorse, fullplate barding for said horse... I'm sure the mounted warrior has come up before. Being a complete forum noob (this is my first post), I'd appreciate any help or direction I can get. Outstanding questions: What should I do with skills? Obviously, meeting prerequisites, but after that I'm thinking of maxing diplomacy (class skill for Knight of the Crown), also I'm thinking crafting (armorsmithing), but other than that, I don't know. I'm hoping to have a few feats left over for fluff, like Negotiator, but obviously, that's secondary to pulling off the God Charge of Doom. Any questions, I'll do my best to fill in anything I missed. The only DnD book I own is the PHB 3.5, so the Dragonlance Campaign Setting, Complete Warrior, and any other usefull literary sources are not available to me at the moment. Thanks a lot!
FiestFan 01-26-06, 10:10 PM	Disclaimer: It's been a long time since I played in Dragonlance. Generally, more than 2 levels of Fighter are a suboptimal choice. See also the Commandments of Optimization thread, for the proclamation 'Though shalt never take an odd number of Fighter levels (except 1 level).' Presuming it's available to you, Fighter 2/Paladin 3 is a more optimized choice. Your high CHA makes this especially attractive, though I'd want to swap INT and WIS. What should I do with skills? Obviously, meeting prerequisites, but after that I'm thinking of maxing diplomacy (class skill for Knight of the Crown), also I'm thinking crafting (armorsmithing), but other than that, I don't know. Max Ride and Handle Animal, as well as Sense Motive - even if you keep that abyssmal WIS. Diplomacy without Sense Motive = Con game victim waiting to happen. Dropping the INT down to 9 (as I advocate) makes this more of a balancing act. I'd also want to sprinkle some Bluff or Intimidate, for times when being Mr Nice Guy doesn't produce the right results. Hmmm, :thinks: perhaps you'll want to keep the INT and swap WIS for DEX.
Mylakovich 01-27-06, 08:29 AM	Hey, thanks. Yeah, you're right about the levels of fighter dilemma. Unfortunately, there is no paladin base class available. Perhaps taking levels of cleric, or ranger... As far as I can see, taking 4 levels of fighter would get me the base requisites for Knight of the Crown, plus I could get Weapon Specialization (Lance) for later. Yeah, I'll see what I can do about the WIS. Fortunatly, the other PCs probably are going to be paranoid up the wazoo... What are the prerquisites for Cavalier, if I may ask? I'm thinking if I can find the minimum number of base class levels to qualify for 1 or more prestige classes, I can start piling them on. PS, did I spell "Solamnic" correctly?
Prominence 01-27-06, 08:58 AM	Well, the 'solamnic knights' have three prestige classes- each one more paladin/cleric then the previous. The last one even gives divine grace. You may want cleric 1 to take advantage of this (and it's free weapon focus anyway). If you're going for a mounted dragonlance knight, there's probably no better PrC for you than Dragon Rider. It gives you a dragon cohort, though I suggest you be small sized if you decide to go this way.
Reinhart 01-27-06, 10:34 AM	Right, these guys are being pretty helpful but I just wanted to point out that the first thing you need to do is figure out how far you're going with the Solamnic training . . . If you want to go all the way to Knight of the Rose you must get into Knight of the Crown and Knight of the Sword as quickly as possible. Solamnic knight training is even harder to min/max than Folculyn Lyrist. I recommend just taking Knight of the Crown if you just want to take some Solamnic Knighthood but aren't interested in divine spellcasting, etc. And yes, Dragon Rider is probably one of the best mounted combat prestige classes available to you.
Mylakovich 01-27-06, 08:28 PM	Good to know about the Dragon Rider, I'll see about that. Thanks a lot!
Father Dale 01-27-06, 10:15 PM	From a character optimization standpoint, the best thing to do is get to Knight of the Rose, taking the first level at 11th (which I believe is the earliest it can possibly be done given the requirements, barring the use of the Paladin base class. The difficulty is in meeting the BAB requirement prior to 10th lvl). Knights of the Rose get full BAB, full divine spellcasting, and 2 good saving throws. I don't think there is any class in all of D&D that gives that kind of benefit. Best would be starting either Fighter 1/Cleric 3 or Fighter 2/Cleric 2 and then going Knight of the Sword. Knights of the Sword get Diehard for free at 3rd level, which is also a prereq for Knight of the Crown. So at that point you would be Fighter 1/Cleric 3/KoS 3. Then three levels of Knight of the Crown. At that point you could take Knight of the Rose. At level 20 you would have BAB +18 and 8th lvl Cleric spellcasting. Note that the Mystic class would work just as well, although for roleplay purposes a cleric of Kiri-Jolith makes more sense. Also, Mystics generally don't get turn undead, which clerics of course do, and that can be used with your high charisma to power some good divine feats, such as Divine Might or Divine Vigor. (However, Sword knights get undead turning at lvl 2, so it wouldn't matter at that point for purposes of divine feats.) However, if you are looking at Dragon Rider, you might want to consider a different route. You could easily do it by going Knight of the Rose, needing to only add Resist Dragonfear as a feat to qualify for Dragon Rider since the Rose Knight meets all the other prereqs (except for Skill ranks). But a Cavlier would be a much better fit for a Dragon Rider. Best for that might be Fighter 4/Knight of the Crown 4/Cavalier X/Dragonrider X. If you add Cleric levels or Crown Knight levels, it will significantly delay when you could take Cavlier and Dragonrider since both of those have very high BAB requirements (8 and 10 respectively). Still, cleric levels might be worth it for the undead turning for divine feats. You would have a total of 12 levels to split between Cavalier and Dragonrider. One drawback to Dragonrider is the 3/4 BAB progression as opposed to the full BAB progression of the Cavalier. Also, a hallmark level for Cavalier is 6th lvl, which gives the full mounted attack ability, so that would probably be the minimum Cavalier levels to take. To maximize saves and BAB, Cavalier 8/Dragonrider 4 would be best, losing only one BAB from the 12 levels and giving a total base save bonus of 10/6/7. However, Cavalier 6/Dragonrider 6 would work as well, although it would lose an additional BAB and would give base save bonus of 10/7/7. But either way works well, as neither class would gain or lose any real improtant benefits between those two levels. Theres also a feat in the Dragonlance Campaign Setting that would be very useful for a Dragon Rider. It lets you use your mounts STR score for determining damage on a charge. However, the weapon must make a DC 8 Fort save or be shattered when you do this. Not sure I would want to risk using that with a Dragonlance, since you'll eventually get a natural 1. (Although this could work well with another feat or ability that lets you reroll a save or something like that.) But if its used while on the back of a Dragon, and with the Cavlaiers deadly charge.... One final note. The Dragonlance campaign setting is a fantastic setting to play in. My group plays most of our campaigns in Dragonlance. Its not as big a world as Forgotten Realms, and theres not nearly as much material out there for it, but it has much more character than any other setting. If you haven't read any of the books, I would suggest reading the Dragonlance Chronicles and the Dragonlance Legends series. Both are fantastic books. While the authors (Weiss and Hickman) aren't by any means Tolkein, they are the next best thing. Far better stuff than that Harry Potter nonsense, thats for certain. And the Death Gate Cycle, also by Weiss and Hickman but not a Dragonlance novel, is also one of the best fantasy/sci-fi series out there, and it realy explores different possiblities for how elves and dwarves can be treated.
Blade2718 01-28-06, 01:08 AM	A basic build for a Knight of Solamnia is Fighter 2/Cleric 3/Knight of the Crown 1/Knight of the Sword 3/Knight of the Rose 10/X 2, where X is any base class or PrC you can imagine that you qualify for. The reason for this is to maximize your spellcasting levels, which the latter two PrCs advance. Note that you are required to have the Crown Knight's first level ability to enter Sword Knight, and the 3rd level ability of the Sword Knight to be a Rose Knight. For the last two levels, I like Legendary Tactician or Dragon Rider. If your emphasis will be on aerial combat, then early entry into Dragon Rider is required. Tremendous Charge will let you use your mount's Str (in the Dragon Rider's case, his dragon's Str) for your Str score when calculating damage on a mounted charge. Cavalier is good, but I think you should maximize aerial combat first, then improve all-around mounted combat.
Mylakovich 01-28-06, 01:36 AM	Wow, thanks a lot for that All-Out imput. You all have been a great help. I'll jumble this info around, and put something together. Although I guess it would be a better question for the Character development board, how should I role-play the character to be true to the theme of the setting? I suppose I ought to read some of the Dragonlance books and get a better idea of how to play it out. While devine spellcasting seems like the way to go for ubarness, I think I may stick with a straight combat nut. The fighter 4/ crown knight 4/ cavalier 6/ dragonrider 6 seems like what I might do for now, and the Tremendous charge sounds pretty nasty once I get that dragon to sit atop (I remember seeing it in the book while flipping through, and thinking of a STR 20 horse, but now I see the true cheese). I can figure out the feats and skills, I think. Thanks a ton!
Father Dale 01-28-06, 02:02 AM	A basic build for a Knight of Solamnia is Fighter 2/Cleric 3/Knight of the Crown 1/Knight of the Sword 3/Knight of the Rose 10/X 2, where X is any base class or PrC you can imagine that you qualify for. The reason for this is to maximize your spellcasting levels, which the latter two PrCs advance. The only problem with this build is that you wouldn't have the BAB to qualify for Knight of the Rose at that level. You need a BAB of +8 to qualify for Rose Knight. Since you need to be a Knight of the Sword first, you will lose at least one BAB from that. And since you need to cast divine spells to be a Knight of the Sword, you will lose another BAB by taking a divine spellcasting class. Thus, the earliest you could get a +8 BAB would be at 10th lvl, letting you take the first Knight of the Rose level at 11. And thus, if you took 10 levels of Rose Knight you would be 20th level. Also, to get Dragon Rider you need BAB +10, meaning the earliest you could take it would be 11th level so long as all your classes are full BAB classes. Cavalier can be qualified for at lvl 8, requiring a +8 BAB, so it could be taken at level 9. Thus, if going the full martial/nonspellcasting route, you can squeeze in a couple levels of cavlier before getting Dragonrider. Although for a LG medium sized character, the earliest you can get a suitable dragon mount is level 13 (for a very young gold dragon mount), so taking Dragon Rider before that might not be all that beneficial. The real problem with going Rose Knight first and then Dragonrider is the heavy feat investments. To meet all the class prereqs you'd have to take Honorbound, Endurance, Resist Dragonfear, Mounted Combat, and Leadership, and only one of those is a fighter bonus feat. If you don't take 3 levels of Crown knight you would also need the Diehard feat. Then you'd want to squeeze in Ride by attack and Spirited Charge. And at that point you are realy hurting on feats. Thats why I would suggest for Dragonrider going full martial with fighter 4/Knight of the Crown 4/Cavlier and then Dragonrider. You could even do Fighter 6/Knight of the Crown 2 instead, althought those two levels of Crown Knight give the diehard feat, charisma bonus to saves against compulsions, and another daily use of Strenght of Honor. Thats probably not worth the additional feat from fighter. So I would suggest the following: Human 1 Fighter 1 (Mounted Combat, Ride By Attack, Power Attack) 2 fighter 2 (Weapon Focus: Lance) 3 Fighter 3 (Honorbound) 4 Fighter 4 (Spirited Charge) 5 Knight of the Crown 1 6 Knight of the Crown 2 (Resist Dragonfear) 7 Knight of the Crown 3 8 Knight of the Crown 4 9 Cavalier 1 (Improved Crit: Lance) 10 Cavalier 2 11 Cavalier 3 12 Cavalier 4 (Leadership) 13 Dragonrider (getting young gold dragon as mount) .... Being sure to have 2 ranks in Diplomacy, Knowledge (religion) and Ride as of 4th level, and 4 ranks in Handle Animal, Knowledge (nobility), and 6 ranks in Ride as of 8th lvl. Note that Knowledge (nobility) is a class skill for Crown Knights, but Handle Animal is not, so you'd want to try to satisfy that with the fighter levels first. Otherwise the only cross classing is the Diplomacy and Knowledge (religion).
Father Dale 01-28-06, 02:13 AM	I'd suggest reading the books for some ideas on how to play. Plus, they are great books anyways. A couple ways to play a Knight of Solamnia. First, as the normal paladin type, help the poor and down trodden, protect the innocent, punish the guilty, so on and so forth. This could be done in the holier than thou type, but it could also be in a more self-sacrificing manner. If you read the books look at how Sturm Brightblade is...hes the ideal Knight of Solamnia. He gave up his life for his friends. (Theres more to him than that though!) Second, the Knights of Solamnia are often filled with those seeking their own personal power and prestige through the knighthood. There are lots of internal politics in the Knights, and sometimes this turns a bit dour. So you could be a lawful good guy but still have a heavy focus on your own ambition. This would be more difficult to play but could be rather rewarding depending on how your DM runs the campaign. Theres other ways to play a Knight of course, but those two spring to mind because they were readily apparent in the books.
Blade2718 01-28-06, 10:32 AM	The only problem with this build is that you wouldn't have the BAB to qualify for Knight of the Rose at that level. You need a BAB of +8 to qualify for Rose Knight. Since you need to be a Knight of the Sword first, you will lose at least one BAB from that. And since you need to cast divine spells to be a Knight of the Sword, you will lose another BAB by taking a divine spellcasting class. Thus, the earliest you could get a +8 BAB would be at 10th lvl, letting you take the first Knight of the Rose level at 11. And thus, if you took 10 levels of Rose Knight you would be 20th level.OK, Fighter 2/Cleric 4/Crown 1/Sword 3/Rose 10/X 1. This is a moot point, though, since the OP is looking for fast access to Dragon Rider.