A melee artificer? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A melee artificer? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BarbeChenue
08-20-05, 01:13 AM I know it's not optimal. Thus I wonder if it has any place in the optimization forum, but I disgress: perhaps helping someone optimize a non-optimal build is optimization after all? ;)

The premise(s):

Race: Warforged -- for the game, the background has been discussed with a friend, and we should both be Warforged, so this might be nice for both of us (the second player will be free to take Juggernaut levels too if I'm able to repair him).

Class: See thread title (kidding).

Focus: Melee efficiency, defensive abilities, versatile in role (focusing on versatility is another strange thing, at least worded as is).

No party clerics, the game is set in a way so that clerics would be very unlikely to be chosen by players.

Party Trapfinding will be taken care of by me.

No action points. The system will not be used.

We start at 3rd level with standard gold and XP.

Books I can use are all 3.5E if possible, and it's quite obvious Eberron stuff will be allowed.

Dubious rules interpretation don't mesh well with either the DM or me as a player. I tend to be of the lawful alignment concerning rules. :D

Conclusion and questions:

Can this work? I know infusions are only strong if we have preparation, especially since we are not using action points. Their duration is rather nice though and the effects are rather potent, but can I use metamagic feats on them?

Would picking strong physical stats help compensate for the lacks of the class in this area? (D6, Cleric BAB, etc.)

What Warforged feats do you reccomend? Should I choose Adamantine plating at 1st level? Is the ability to cast Wizard made scrolls without fail useful enough to avoid picking this feat?

What would a 3rd level melee focused "versatile" artificer look like (contradiction again?).

Thanks in advance for any suggestion.
BarbeChenue
08-20-05, 02:42 AM Consider this one bumped. :bump:

I'm looking for advice on how to make the most of the Artificer as a melee character. Especially by taking advantage of buffs and such things, as well as feat choices.
Neb Rybel
08-20-05, 03:50 AM Without Action Points, the best combat Infusion becomes unusable: Weapon Augmentation, Personal. A 1 minute casting time is excessive. But by spending one action point, you could add Bane (whatever you are fighting) to your weapon with a standard action.
Ph0eNiX
08-20-05, 10:21 AM All I'll say is: It could work. I played a Warforged Artificer with the Adamantine Body feat, and throughout most of his life, he was heavily centered oin melee.
Of course, we had an idea what to prepare for, but I would often enhance my weapon with generic damage improving abilities, and put some nifty tricks into my armor, as well.
Basically, pull most every broken melee cleric build for ideas. Once you're high enough, spell trigger items don't have a chance for ASF, so you're good to go with arcane spells.
Also, don't overlook the Bone Talisman spell (from one of the WotC articles), which allows you to create a bone talisman you can use to turn undead as a cleric of your caster level. Always handy if you don't have access to clerics in the game and run into hordes of undead.
Caelic
08-20-05, 08:41 PM Two words: Persistent Spell.

With Metamagic Item and self-crafted wands, you can transform yourself into a juggernaut. Depending on how much you're willing to make your DM hate you, you can turn yourself into a very nearly unstoppable juggernaut.

Persistent Divine Power is, of course, a must. Persistent Wraithstrike is also a formidable asset...as is Persistent Swift Haste. Find some way to convince your DM to allow you to craft a Staff (or Scepter) that includes Draconic Polymorph.

Your primary weakness is low hit points; personal spells which grant temporary hit points can ameliorate this. If you can get away with it, go for Persistent Consumptive Field (from Libris Mortis.) This will allow you to garner a near-unlimited number of temporary hit points--it all depends on how long you're willing to stand around killing chickens and small woodland animals.
BarbeChenue
08-20-05, 11:44 PM How exactly could I use Persistent Spells without having to rely on those sticks from libris mortis with Divine Metamagic? Could I actually get persistent spell otherwise and at level 3rd?

In preparing for this (in case I can't get Persistent at 3rd), what do you reccomend I pick for feats around that level? (1st level will be for adamantine, no point in asking for just a single feat:P) I'm also puzzled with Ability scores. Since polymorph will not be part of my melee routine (no need to waste the best aspect of a Warforged by loosing all your features), I'd need good physical attributes, right? How should this impact my choice?

Finally, is there a feat that allows you to discharge a wand with a melee attack instead of a ranged touch attack? If I'm boosting strength instead of Dex (to avoid MAD), better make use of it.
Blade2718
08-21-05, 03:48 AM For one thing, you Persist spells by crafting them into charged items, then use the infusion Metamagic Item.
FireEyes
08-21-05, 09:35 AM BarbeChenue - You use the ability Metamagic Spelltrigger, or the Infusion Metamagic Item, and add the Persistant Metamagic feat to all yourself buffs.

Get a high Str, a Greatclub, and a Wand of Spikes while you are at it.
Caelic
08-21-05, 09:39 PM Yes, indeed. You won't actually be able to Persist spells until fifth level--when you get your first third-level infusions, and can thus use Metamagic Item.

Metamagic Item is your friend. Know it, use it, love it.
RadicalTaoist
08-21-05, 10:01 PM Dangit, you built the Tankificer on your thread Caelic. Where is it? I know it's linked somewhere.
Caelic
08-21-05, 10:19 PM Ninjaficer applies more here, since he wants to be a TWF--I really should keep a link to the thread, though.
BarbeChenue
08-22-05, 01:27 AM Okay, so that's how you do it! I had read the Infusion in the past and thought about some of its possibilities, but I never thought about this application! The term "Metamagic Item" is quite a generic mixture of terms for an Artificer. :D I thoughts you used Persistent Metamagic with "Metamagic Spell Trigger", with the number of "Artificial" levels the Feat adds, you would burn through charges pretty quickly (making the cost a bit prohibitive.). I was also thinking you were using Night Sticks from Libris Mortis to get Turn Attempts in order to Divine Metamagic (Persistent) Wand stored spells.

Thanks a whole lot for this one! :)
BarbeChenue
08-22-05, 01:39 AM Ninjaficer applies more here, since he wants to be a TWF--I really should keep a link to the thread, though.

I was more looking at defensive abilities there, power should be coming from my spells/infusions, not my number of attacks. I think I will be using a Shield (a buckler or Heavy Steel Shield, depending on Wand Sheath availability) and a one-handed metal hafted weapon (probably a heavy mace for its 20 Hardness that can't be bypassed by Adamantine) with the Weapon Familiar Racial Substitution class feature of the Warforged (which replaces Retain Essence), since it gives the wielder a +3 Bonus on Use Magic Device checks (for being one handed) and +2 Fortitude (for dealing bludgeoning damage). Would it be any good?

I'd like to learn more about your tank build Caelic, but I'm also curious about that Ninja of yours. I've always had something for Ninjas... and Robots... and a Ninja Robot Shooting Lasers (spells) with his hands (Wand Sheath) is just so... :cool:

Edit: I have no idea if shooting lasers is part of your build, but I'm definately adding it anyway if it doesn't. :P
feintmaster
08-22-05, 01:52 AM The motion to learn more about that ninja-ficer, with the hey hey hey, and :eek: OMG is that a frickin ninja thats a frickin robot that shoots frickin lasers from his fingertips... yeah... what the last guy said. :embarrass

Can you provide a link? :)
aod318
08-22-05, 02:30 AM Pick of Races of Eberron. They have Warforged racial sub levels for Fighter and Artificer that are quite nice.
Caelic
08-22-05, 07:52 AM I would strongly caution against taking the fifth Warforged Artificer racial substitution level. The first one is lovely, the fourth is a matter of taste, but the weapon familiar simply is not worth giving up one of the Artificer's key abilities.

Of course, I'd also avoidthe Thought Bottle as a matter of principle, so...

At any rate--I'll see if I can dig up a link to the Optimized Artificer thread. Until I manage to finish the handbook, it's the best one-stop source for builds.
Chaos116882
08-22-05, 08:36 AM Beautiful linkage :D http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=287275
Chaos116882
08-22-05, 09:30 AM ninjaficier is on 9th page

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BarbeChenue 08-20-05, 01:13 AM	I know it's not optimal. Thus I wonder if it has any place in the optimization forum, but I disgress: perhaps helping someone optimize a non-optimal build is optimization after all? ;) The premise(s): Race: Warforged -- for the game, the background has been discussed with a friend, and we should both be Warforged, so this might be nice for both of us (the second player will be free to take Juggernaut levels too if I'm able to repair him). Class: See thread title (kidding). Focus: Melee efficiency, defensive abilities, versatile in role (focusing on versatility is another strange thing, at least worded as is). No party clerics, the game is set in a way so that clerics would be very unlikely to be chosen by players. Party Trapfinding will be taken care of by me. No action points. The system will not be used. We start at 3rd level with standard gold and XP. Books I can use are all 3.5E if possible, and it's quite obvious Eberron stuff will be allowed. Dubious rules interpretation don't mesh well with either the DM or me as a player. I tend to be of the lawful alignment concerning rules. :D Conclusion and questions: Can this work? I know infusions are only strong if we have preparation, especially since we are not using action points. Their duration is rather nice though and the effects are rather potent, but can I use metamagic feats on them? Would picking strong physical stats help compensate for the lacks of the class in this area? (D6, Cleric BAB, etc.) What Warforged feats do you reccomend? Should I choose Adamantine plating at 1st level? Is the ability to cast Wizard made scrolls without fail useful enough to avoid picking this feat? What would a 3rd level melee focused "versatile" artificer look like (contradiction again?). Thanks in advance for any suggestion.
BarbeChenue 08-20-05, 02:42 AM	Consider this one bumped. :bump: I'm looking for advice on how to make the most of the Artificer as a melee character. Especially by taking advantage of buffs and such things, as well as feat choices.
Neb Rybel 08-20-05, 03:50 AM	Without Action Points, the best combat Infusion becomes unusable: Weapon Augmentation, Personal. A 1 minute casting time is excessive. But by spending one action point, you could add Bane (whatever you are fighting) to your weapon with a standard action.
Ph0eNiX 08-20-05, 10:21 AM	All I'll say is: It could work. I played a Warforged Artificer with the Adamantine Body feat, and throughout most of his life, he was heavily centered oin melee. Of course, we had an idea what to prepare for, but I would often enhance my weapon with generic damage improving abilities, and put some nifty tricks into my armor, as well. Basically, pull most every broken melee cleric build for ideas. Once you're high enough, spell trigger items don't have a chance for ASF, so you're good to go with arcane spells. Also, don't overlook the Bone Talisman spell (from one of the WotC articles), which allows you to create a bone talisman you can use to turn undead as a cleric of your caster level. Always handy if you don't have access to clerics in the game and run into hordes of undead.
Caelic 08-20-05, 08:41 PM	Two words: Persistent Spell. With Metamagic Item and self-crafted wands, you can transform yourself into a juggernaut. Depending on how much you're willing to make your DM hate you, you can turn yourself into a very nearly unstoppable juggernaut. Persistent Divine Power is, of course, a must. Persistent Wraithstrike is also a formidable asset...as is Persistent Swift Haste. Find some way to convince your DM to allow you to craft a Staff (or Scepter) that includes Draconic Polymorph. Your primary weakness is low hit points; personal spells which grant temporary hit points can ameliorate this. If you can get away with it, go for Persistent Consumptive Field (from Libris Mortis.) This will allow you to garner a near-unlimited number of temporary hit points--it all depends on how long you're willing to stand around killing chickens and small woodland animals.
BarbeChenue 08-20-05, 11:44 PM	How exactly could I use Persistent Spells without having to rely on those sticks from libris mortis with Divine Metamagic? Could I actually get persistent spell otherwise and at level 3rd? In preparing for this (in case I can't get Persistent at 3rd), what do you reccomend I pick for feats around that level? (1st level will be for adamantine, no point in asking for just a single feat:P) I'm also puzzled with Ability scores. Since polymorph will not be part of my melee routine (no need to waste the best aspect of a Warforged by loosing all your features), I'd need good physical attributes, right? How should this impact my choice? Finally, is there a feat that allows you to discharge a wand with a melee attack instead of a ranged touch attack? If I'm boosting strength instead of Dex (to avoid MAD), better make use of it.
Blade2718 08-21-05, 03:48 AM	For one thing, you Persist spells by crafting them into charged items, then use the infusion Metamagic Item.
FireEyes 08-21-05, 09:35 AM	BarbeChenue - You use the ability Metamagic Spelltrigger, or the Infusion Metamagic Item, and add the Persistant Metamagic feat to all yourself buffs. Get a high Str, a Greatclub, and a Wand of Spikes while you are at it.
Caelic 08-21-05, 09:39 PM	Yes, indeed. You won't actually be able to Persist spells until fifth level--when you get your first third-level infusions, and can thus use Metamagic Item. Metamagic Item is your friend. Know it, use it, love it.
RadicalTaoist 08-21-05, 10:01 PM	Dangit, you built the Tankificer on your thread Caelic. Where is it? I know it's linked somewhere.
Caelic 08-21-05, 10:19 PM	Ninjaficer applies more here, since he wants to be a TWF--I really should keep a link to the thread, though.
BarbeChenue 08-22-05, 01:27 AM	Okay, so that's how you do it! I had read the Infusion in the past and thought about some of its possibilities, but I never thought about this application! The term "Metamagic Item" is quite a generic mixture of terms for an Artificer. :D I thoughts you used Persistent Metamagic with "Metamagic Spell Trigger", with the number of "Artificial" levels the Feat adds, you would burn through charges pretty quickly (making the cost a bit prohibitive.). I was also thinking you were using Night Sticks from Libris Mortis to get Turn Attempts in order to Divine Metamagic (Persistent) Wand stored spells. Thanks a whole lot for this one! :)
BarbeChenue 08-22-05, 01:39 AM	Ninjaficer applies more here, since he wants to be a TWF--I really should keep a link to the thread, though. I was more looking at defensive abilities there, power should be coming from my spells/infusions, not my number of attacks. I think I will be using a Shield (a buckler or Heavy Steel Shield, depending on Wand Sheath availability) and a one-handed metal hafted weapon (probably a heavy mace for its 20 Hardness that can't be bypassed by Adamantine) with the Weapon Familiar Racial Substitution class feature of the Warforged (which replaces Retain Essence), since it gives the wielder a +3 Bonus on Use Magic Device checks (for being one handed) and +2 Fortitude (for dealing bludgeoning damage). Would it be any good? I'd like to learn more about your tank build Caelic, but I'm also curious about that Ninja of yours. I've always had something for Ninjas... and Robots... and a Ninja Robot Shooting Lasers (spells) with his hands (Wand Sheath) is just so... :cool: Edit: I have no idea if shooting lasers is part of your build, but I'm definately adding it anyway if it doesn't. :P
feintmaster 08-22-05, 01:52 AM	The motion to learn more about that ninja-ficer, with the hey hey hey, and :eek: OMG is that a frickin ninja thats a frickin robot that shoots frickin lasers from his fingertips... yeah... what the last guy said. :embarrass Can you provide a link? :)
aod318 08-22-05, 02:30 AM	Pick of Races of Eberron. They have Warforged racial sub levels for Fighter and Artificer that are quite nice.
Caelic 08-22-05, 07:52 AM	I would strongly caution against taking the fifth Warforged Artificer racial substitution level. The first one is lovely, the fourth is a matter of taste, but the weapon familiar simply is not worth giving up one of the Artificer's key abilities. Of course, I'd also avoidthe Thought Bottle as a matter of principle, so... At any rate--I'll see if I can dig up a link to the Optimized Artificer thread. Until I manage to finish the handbook, it's the best one-stop source for builds.
Chaos116882 08-22-05, 08:36 AM	Beautiful linkage :D http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=287275
Chaos116882 08-22-05, 09:30 AM	ninjaficier is on 9th page