A melee Shifter [Archive] - Wizards Community

A melee Shifter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ivarrius
08-28-03, 08:47 PM I know there was a post about this before, but I have a spin to put on it.

I was looking closely at the Shifter PrC for the first time really today, and woul love to take a stab at it eventually. I am not looking to be a Spellcaster, but rather a true shifter, assuming as many abilities from the forms I take as possible.

I will most likely take Druid as the base class (for the extra wild shape ability) and the third level spells.

i am looking to make this character a naturalist, in that he/she will concentrate on nature as much as possible, but also on the nature of all lifeforms, hence the emphasis on shifting.

Mainly going for a tank character, with an RP twist, is there any feat progression I should keep a mind of?

Assume Supernatural ability and Casting from any shape would be good too... but only for the ake of a few levels of spells might be useless.

I you have any advice, I would love to hear it.
Mattimeo78368
08-28-03, 10:50 PM shifters bible is awesome if you havent seen it yet... if your going with a shifter useing a weapon what kind? but just baout evrything u need to kno and the best forms are in the shifter bible...

The holy bible!
http://boards.wizards.com/rpg-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=116;t=005 225
RaKhan
08-28-03, 10:50 PM You should just stay a druid. If you want, you could take 1 level of Monk at 1st level to get some acrobatic skills, Improved Unarmed Combat, and Wis modifier to your AC no matter what form you're in. By epic levels, you'll be able to wild shape into a Dragon no sooner than 27th level. You'll be the best tracker when you pick up the Wild feat called Scent. You do not provoke an AoO when you use Wild Shape as per the 3.5 SRD. Take the Natural Spell feat from MotW so you can cast spells while in a wild shape.
Mattimeo78368
08-28-03, 10:58 PM Rakhan ive never gotten to 27th level with a character... and why wait till 27th level when you could have it at 5-15th? and he said he doesn't want to be a caster so after that he could join a melee prestige class or something....
SailorNash
08-29-03, 01:21 AM One level of Monk, then Druid, then Shifter. That's the way I'd go.

After that, any Melee PrC would do, but if possible I'd try to find something that also granted spellcasting progression. If you can take a PrC that gives you an extra domain and worship a deity with the Plant domain, you could use that as the virtual feats needed for Verdant Lord. Full BAB, full spellcasting, spontaneous regeneration spells (as well as SNA, if you're in 3.5), Infusions that you can gobble while Shifted into odd forms, plus the capstone ability is that you turn into a Plant. No critical hits and all that jazz.

If there's a specific Melee PrC that you just really like, I'd say go for it. But if you're undecided, I'd recommend picking something that has at least some spellcasting progression. You can already cast, so even if it isn't your main focus it's still nice to have. :D
Vorpal Warhammer
08-29-03, 10:46 AM 3.5 wildshape specifies that it acts like Polymorph

3.5 Polymorph specifies that your type and subtype change.

Shifter allows you to swap the best parts of wildshape and greater wildshape as you see fit.

I'm sure some of you can think of ways to abuse that horribly...
rilem
08-29-03, 11:14 AM I was under the impression that, b/c of the loss of the various "special qualities" under 3.5 polymorph, the shifter is pretty much kaput as a viable PrC now. If all you care about is the combat stats, maybe it's a little better, but ...

Here's a link to a recent thread on some shapeshifting ideas for 3.5
link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84211&highlight=shifter)
archcomponent
08-29-03, 11:47 AM You know, I've always been curious if you could work out a good melee build using the Berserk class to qualify for Shifter, perhaps filling up the rest of the levels with barbarian or something of the like and the later ones with FB.

Then you just choose a big green monster and pass yourself off as the hulk.

:P
Sensei Gith
08-29-03, 01:10 PM Shifter allows you to swap the best parts of wildshape and greater wildshape as you see fit.

I'm sure some of you can think of ways to abuse that horribly...
That's the nice thing about the shifter. Its power is limited only by the imagination of the player. So if you lose special qualities in Greater Wild Shape, a little thought will let you balance it out yourself, no rule changes required.

How about this: The Shifter's Greater Wild Shape refers to the 3.0 version of Wild Shape, by implication at least. So why don't you mix up Wild Shape 3.5, Greater Wild Shape, and Wild Shape 3.0?
PhaedrusXY
08-29-03, 01:26 PM oops
Shaun O'Braun
08-29-03, 01:45 PM You need to be able to cast third level spells to qualify for Shifter. So, Druid 5/Monk 1/Shifter 10.

What about this? Sorcerer 6/Monk 1/Shifter 10/Holy Liberator 4? With alter self as one of your spells known, of course.

Featherfall, true strike, mage armor, etc., plus you'll eventually be immune to charm and compulsion effects (pretty much all enchantments) and you'll be able to add your high Cha to your saves. You won't be able to shift into animals, but you'll be able to shift into anything else, especially with alter self.

Put your stats into Int (skill points), Wis (AC), and Cha (down the road a long ways for saves, and it powers your spells, and let's you sweet talk people into not killing the dangerous beast that they see), since your physical stats will be overridden by the creature that you change into.
Ivarrius
08-29-03, 05:09 PM Originally posted by Shaun O'Braun
What about this? Sorcerer 6/Monk 1/Shifter 10/Holy Liberator 4? With alter self as one of your spells known, of course.

Upon first look, this build didnt seem so great. But when I thought about it a little more, it made a lot of sense. I like the Cha to saves from HL, and the Wis Bonus to AC from Monk.

Problem is, I want to get into this PrC as soon as Possible, and I think I like the druid spell allowance just a bit better. If it weren't for the studying of the spells I might think of Wiz5/Monk1/Shifter10, but then the HL might not fit well.. unless I have high enough stats to make him worth it in Cha Mods.

I am thinking that Druid5/Monk1/Shifter10 and perhaps another Druid PrC allowing Spell Progression ( even if just a little) to build a good melee cahracter, with a good story. (the verdant lord Idea is good too!)

Thanks for the advice guys. Made this much easier.
Psyrus
08-29-03, 07:26 PM I don't know...

I played a Druid 5/Shifter10/Fighter3 in 3.0 and he was an awesome melee character. Gaining strength and immunities of the Planetar he had almost untouchable AC (~55AC) for his level.

The problem is when you convert to 3.5 you loose out on all of the Ex abilities and qualities. You also don't get the monster's feats anymore. On top of that the straight Druid improved dramaticly.

I ended up converting my PC to Druid18 when we moved to 3.5. I bought a Rod of Extend Spell (Greater) and my Shapechange spell last 6hours per casting and he can cast 4/day. Shapechange not only gives you back the Ex abilities that 3.5 took away from the shifter, it gives you all the forms Su abilities.

Now in combat my PC uses Planetar form and has regeneration, SR, DR, Holy Aura, AC50, not to mention the boost to Str, Dex, and Con. And I get a nifty animal companion and 4-8th (9ths are all used for Shapechange, but can spontaneously cast Summon IX if I need to :)).level spells that I didn't have as a shifter.

All in all, I think the straight Druid far surpasses what a shifter can do (at least when you get to the higher levels).
Ivarrius
08-29-03, 09:31 PM Does anyone have a link to the 3.5 Shifter?

Or is there such a thing?

That Druid Shapechange build sounds pretty good, I will have to keep that in mind.
Psyrus
08-29-03, 09:58 PM Sadly, the WotC class books have not been converted to 3.5. There's a thead here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66198) dealing with what people think should be done with the Shifter in 3.5.

Most believe that a shifter will be too powerful if given Su abilities and with out them the Shapechange spell overshadows the whole Shifter class. It's really too bad, I'd prefer playing a Shifter, but just can't bring my self to do it with all of the changes.
SailorNash
08-30-03, 03:03 AM No 3.5 Shifter, I'm afraid. As it's such a wildly popular class, maybe WotC will update it in a future book or on a Web Enhancement? ::crosses fingers::

Also, the Shifter has been completely hosed by the new and ::cough::improved::cough:: revisions. The best you can hope for is to ask the DM to allow you to play the Shifter under the original 3.0 rules, as that is how the class was designed. If that's not an option, try to use one of the homebrew revisions. There's tons of them, as all the Shifter players really want to keep playing their characters and there is no quick and easy way for that particular PrC to convert into the new 3.5 ruleset.
Korwin
10-21-03, 02:48 AM Originally posted by Mattimeo78368
shifters bible is awesome if you havent seen it yet... if your going with a shifter useing a weapon what kind? but just baout evrything u need to kno and the best forms are in the shifter bible...

The holy bible!
http://boards.wizards.com/rpg-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=116;t=005 225

btw. are the old boards down?
If so. Has somebody saved the thread?

cu
catharz
10-21-03, 03:19 AM There is an epic shifter, released after 3.5 rules, so one must assume that the Shifter PrC is considered compatable.

I think the standard meele tank shifter was Ranger 4/Sacred Fist 8/Shifter 8, go shifter epic. Take a domain that gives Alter or Poly (Spell if you aren't bigoted).
Zeffan the Fighting Man
12-02-03, 12:38 AM :bump:

more meat for my next game. Thank you.

Zeff.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ivarrius 08-28-03, 08:47 PM	I know there was a post about this before, but I have a spin to put on it. I was looking closely at the Shifter PrC for the first time really today, and woul love to take a stab at it eventually. I am not looking to be a Spellcaster, but rather a true shifter, assuming as many abilities from the forms I take as possible. I will most likely take Druid as the base class (for the extra wild shape ability) and the third level spells. i am looking to make this character a naturalist, in that he/she will concentrate on nature as much as possible, but also on the nature of all lifeforms, hence the emphasis on shifting. Mainly going for a tank character, with an RP twist, is there any feat progression I should keep a mind of? Assume Supernatural ability and Casting from any shape would be good too... but only for the ake of a few levels of spells might be useless. I you have any advice, I would love to hear it.
Mattimeo78368 08-28-03, 10:50 PM	shifters bible is awesome if you havent seen it yet... if your going with a shifter useing a weapon what kind? but just baout evrything u need to kno and the best forms are in the shifter bible... The holy bible! http://boards.wizards.com/rpg-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=116;t=005 225
RaKhan 08-28-03, 10:50 PM	You should just stay a druid. If you want, you could take 1 level of Monk at 1st level to get some acrobatic skills, Improved Unarmed Combat, and Wis modifier to your AC no matter what form you're in. By epic levels, you'll be able to wild shape into a Dragon no sooner than 27th level. You'll be the best tracker when you pick up the Wild feat called Scent. You do not provoke an AoO when you use Wild Shape as per the 3.5 SRD. Take the Natural Spell feat from MotW so you can cast spells while in a wild shape.
Mattimeo78368 08-28-03, 10:58 PM	Rakhan ive never gotten to 27th level with a character... and why wait till 27th level when you could have it at 5-15th? and he said he doesn't want to be a caster so after that he could join a melee prestige class or something....
SailorNash 08-29-03, 01:21 AM	One level of Monk, then Druid, then Shifter. That's the way I'd go. After that, any Melee PrC would do, but if possible I'd try to find something that also granted spellcasting progression. If you can take a PrC that gives you an extra domain and worship a deity with the Plant domain, you could use that as the virtual feats needed for Verdant Lord. Full BAB, full spellcasting, spontaneous regeneration spells (as well as SNA, if you're in 3.5), Infusions that you can gobble while Shifted into odd forms, plus the capstone ability is that you turn into a Plant. No critical hits and all that jazz. If there's a specific Melee PrC that you just really like, I'd say go for it. But if you're undecided, I'd recommend picking something that has at least some spellcasting progression. You can already cast, so even if it isn't your main focus it's still nice to have. :D
Vorpal Warhammer 08-29-03, 10:46 AM	3.5 wildshape specifies that it acts like Polymorph 3.5 Polymorph specifies that your type and subtype change. Shifter allows you to swap the best parts of wildshape and greater wildshape as you see fit. I'm sure some of you can think of ways to abuse that horribly...
rilem 08-29-03, 11:14 AM	I was under the impression that, b/c of the loss of the various "special qualities" under 3.5 polymorph, the shifter is pretty much kaput as a viable PrC now. If all you care about is the combat stats, maybe it's a little better, but ... Here's a link to a recent thread on some shapeshifting ideas for 3.5 link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84211&highlight=shifter)
archcomponent 08-29-03, 11:47 AM	You know, I've always been curious if you could work out a good melee build using the Berserk class to qualify for Shifter, perhaps filling up the rest of the levels with barbarian or something of the like and the later ones with FB. Then you just choose a big green monster and pass yourself off as the hulk. :P
Sensei Gith 08-29-03, 01:10 PM	Shifter allows you to swap the best parts of wildshape and greater wildshape as you see fit. I'm sure some of you can think of ways to abuse that horribly... That's the nice thing about the shifter. Its power is limited only by the imagination of the player. So if you lose special qualities in Greater Wild Shape, a little thought will let you balance it out yourself, no rule changes required. How about this: The Shifter's Greater Wild Shape refers to the 3.0 version of Wild Shape, by implication at least. So why don't you mix up Wild Shape 3.5, Greater Wild Shape, and Wild Shape 3.0?
PhaedrusXY 08-29-03, 01:26 PM	oops
Shaun O'Braun 08-29-03, 01:45 PM	You need to be able to cast third level spells to qualify for Shifter. So, Druid 5/Monk 1/Shifter 10. What about this? Sorcerer 6/Monk 1/Shifter 10/Holy Liberator 4? With alter self as one of your spells known, of course. Featherfall, true strike, mage armor, etc., plus you'll eventually be immune to charm and compulsion effects (pretty much all enchantments) and you'll be able to add your high Cha to your saves. You won't be able to shift into animals, but you'll be able to shift into anything else, especially with alter self. Put your stats into Int (skill points), Wis (AC), and Cha (down the road a long ways for saves, and it powers your spells, and let's you sweet talk people into not killing the dangerous beast that they see), since your physical stats will be overridden by the creature that you change into.
Ivarrius 08-29-03, 05:09 PM	Originally posted by Shaun O'Braun What about this? Sorcerer 6/Monk 1/Shifter 10/Holy Liberator 4? With alter self as one of your spells known, of course. Upon first look, this build didnt seem so great. But when I thought about it a little more, it made a lot of sense. I like the Cha to saves from HL, and the Wis Bonus to AC from Monk. Problem is, I want to get into this PrC as soon as Possible, and I think I like the druid spell allowance just a bit better. If it weren't for the studying of the spells I might think of Wiz5/Monk1/Shifter10, but then the HL might not fit well.. unless I have high enough stats to make him worth it in Cha Mods. I am thinking that Druid5/Monk1/Shifter10 and perhaps another Druid PrC allowing Spell Progression ( even if just a little) to build a good melee cahracter, with a good story. (the verdant lord Idea is good too!) Thanks for the advice guys. Made this much easier.
Psyrus 08-29-03, 07:26 PM	I don't know... I played a Druid 5/Shifter10/Fighter3 in 3.0 and he was an awesome melee character. Gaining strength and immunities of the Planetar he had almost untouchable AC (~55AC) for his level. The problem is when you convert to 3.5 you loose out on all of the Ex abilities and qualities. You also don't get the monster's feats anymore. On top of that the straight Druid improved dramaticly. I ended up converting my PC to Druid18 when we moved to 3.5. I bought a Rod of Extend Spell (Greater) and my Shapechange spell last 6hours per casting and he can cast 4/day. Shapechange not only gives you back the Ex abilities that 3.5 took away from the shifter, it gives you all the forms Su abilities. Now in combat my PC uses Planetar form and has regeneration, SR, DR, Holy Aura, AC50, not to mention the boost to Str, Dex, and Con. And I get a nifty animal companion and 4-8th (9ths are all used for Shapechange, but can spontaneously cast Summon IX if I need to :)).level spells that I didn't have as a shifter. All in all, I think the straight Druid far surpasses what a shifter can do (at least when you get to the higher levels).
Ivarrius 08-29-03, 09:31 PM	Does anyone have a link to the 3.5 Shifter? Or is there such a thing? That Druid Shapechange build sounds pretty good, I will have to keep that in mind.
Psyrus 08-29-03, 09:58 PM	Sadly, the WotC class books have not been converted to 3.5. There's a thead here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66198) dealing with what people think should be done with the Shifter in 3.5. Most believe that a shifter will be too powerful if given Su abilities and with out them the Shapechange spell overshadows the whole Shifter class. It's really too bad, I'd prefer playing a Shifter, but just can't bring my self to do it with all of the changes.
SailorNash 08-30-03, 03:03 AM	No 3.5 Shifter, I'm afraid. As it's such a wildly popular class, maybe WotC will update it in a future book or on a Web Enhancement? ::crosses fingers:: Also, the Shifter has been completely hosed by the new and ::cough::improved::cough:: revisions. The best you can hope for is to ask the DM to allow you to play the Shifter under the original 3.0 rules, as that is how the class was designed. If that's not an option, try to use one of the homebrew revisions. There's tons of them, as all the Shifter players really want to keep playing their characters and there is no quick and easy way for that particular PrC to convert into the new 3.5 ruleset.
Korwin 10-21-03, 02:48 AM	Originally posted by Mattimeo78368 shifters bible is awesome if you havent seen it yet... if your going with a shifter useing a weapon what kind? but just baout evrything u need to kno and the best forms are in the shifter bible... The holy bible! http://boards.wizards.com/rpg-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=116;t=005 225 btw. are the old boards down? If so. Has somebody saved the thread? cu
catharz 10-21-03, 03:19 AM	There is an epic shifter, released after 3.5 rules, so one must assume that the Shifter PrC is considered compatable. I think the standard meele tank shifter was Ranger 4/Sacred Fist 8/Shifter 8, go shifter epic. Take a domain that gives Alter or Poly (Spell if you aren't bigoted).
Zeffan the Fighting Man 12-02-03, 12:38 AM	:bump: more meat for my next game. Thank you. Zeff.