Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jaisin 02-28-06, 05:39 PM	Hola! After reading through a thread of fun things to do with a CoCL, an idea spawned in my mind about how to make a great elven paragon - what follows is the 5 minute idea I've had time to post. Forgive its roughness, and as I don't have access to books at work and am trying to get my head around the various new rules/books for 3.5 (been playing different systems for quite a while), let me know how many and which rules may have been breached, and ways to fix them. So: Sun Elf 1:Ranger/Wizard (Elven Substitution) 2:Ranger/Wizard 3:Elven Paragon/Wizard 4:Fighter/Elven Paragon 5:Fighter/Elven Paragon 6:Ranger/Wizard 7:Ranger/Bladesinger 8:Wizard/Bladesinger 9:Ranger/Bladesinger 10:Wizard/Bladesinger 11:Ranger/Bladesinger 12:Wizard/Bladesinger 13:Ranger/Bladesinger 14:Wizard/Bladesinger 15:Ranger/Bladesinger 16:Wizard/Bladesinger 17:Wizard/CoCL 18:Wizard/CoCL 19:Wizard/Darkwood Stalker 20:Wizard/Darkwood Stalker Obviously far from optimized, but with fun elven flair. What I'm looking for is some means of actually making this a more reasonable and playable character that would epitomize elvendom - I was thinking feats like Arcane Strike (an obvious choice), a cooshee for an animal companion, orcs as a favored enemy, etc., etc. Oh mighty men and women of character optimization land: rip it apart, but contribute anyway. :D
swanyusd 02-28-06, 10:44 PM	Well, I'm not entirely sure how to get it into this build, but try and get Stalker of Kharesh from the book of exalted deeds. It gets you favored enemy:evil, as opposed to just orcs. Any evil being/monster you can then use your ranger bonuses on. Otherwise, I REALLY like this build for its elven flavor. You were right into building in wizard on the other side of bladesinger.
Jaisin 03-01-06, 09:40 AM	Stalker of Kharash is a great idea; not hard to work in Favored of the Companions as a feat (I don't think, anyway). I know that there are some serious synergy problems with the build that I'm looking for some resolution to. 1) a possible 23 INT by level four would lend to taking class levels in Swashbuckler and Deulist for rapier wonderment, coupled with CoCL, but then we run into the other problem - So: Replace Ranger with Swashbuckler, and Darkwood Stalker and a couple of levels of Bladesinger with Duelist (maybe); I'm just not sure of the playability of this. It seems a little discombobulated. 2) CoCL and heavy armor goodness, but most benefits come from wearing light armor from Bladesinger, but this is only a minor piece as the two CoCL levels are for Dex to damage 3) Are 10 levels of Bladesinger really worth it? I know that often PrC's are taken for only a few dips or to help support a baseline (Halruaan Elder after Wiz5/Incat 10, for instance). Song of Fury doesn't help at all with a TWF Ranger, as they can't hold anything in their second hand, nor cast most spells (right?) 4) Possible XP penalties on the Ranger/Paragon/Fighter side of the build, I'm simply too lazy to try to figure that one out 5) What type/kind of feats would work best with this, from your opinions? 6) The most optimal progression . . . that's another key, as all of the PrCs can be qualified for by 9th level (I think). Thanks again for your input!
swanyusd 03-01-06, 11:58 AM	Ok, before I post the build, here were my assumptions before I started: 1) You want to take bladesinger. I think if you do this, you should just go ahead with using a longsword 1 handed, with no other weapon in your off hand. Also, take all 10 levels. That flurry of blows-like ability at the end is pretty neat. Also, quicken up to 4th level spells 1/day and can cast in light armor for free. 2) Stalker of kharesh may be better for your build than darkwood stalker, as it favored enemy:evil is more useful than favored enemy:orc with bonuses. 3) Archmage would be a great fit for this build, as what elven wizard wouldn't want to be an archmage (I'm thinking myth drannor here). 4) Swashbuckler is a must take, because you get int to damage. 5) Champion of corellon is worth a 3 level dip, because of the bonus to dexterity with armor. So here is the build. Sadly, there is only room for one "free" feat, and I chose arcane strike, as you mentioned that in your build. 1- Swashbuckler / Elven Wizard Substitution - (combat casting) 2- Elven paragon / Wizard 3- Swashbuckler / Elven Paragon - (combat expertise, weapon focus(longsword) 4- Swash / Elven Paragon 5- Fighter/ Wizard - (dodge) 6- Fighter / Bladesinger - (mounted combat, skill focus(spellcraft) ) 7- Wiz / Bladesinger 8- Champion of Corellon / Bladesinger 9- Wizard / Bladesinger - (alertness, spell focus(any) <- comes from wizard class bonus feat) 10- CoCL / Bladesinger 11- Wiz / Bladesinger 12- CoCL/ Bladesinger - (spell focus (any) ) 13- Wiz / Bladesinger 14- Ranger / Bladesinger - (Track) 15- Wiz / Bladesinger - (favored of the companions) 16- Stalker of Kharesh / Archmage 17- Stalker / Arch 18- Stalker / Arch - (free feat, arcane strike is your best pick) 19- Stalker / Arch 20- Stalker / Arch So, this build nets you the following goodies: Int to attack and damage Strength to damage CL 20 BAB +20 Casting in light armor, with a higher max dex +1 Favored enemy:pick one Favored enemy:evil Scent:evil Track evil Hide in plain sight 5 archmage abilities of your choice Flurry of blows equivalent with longsword Quicken up to 4th level spells 1/day Arcane strike Up to all your BAB to ac, in case you have a very difficult fight This build is also epic ready, as you can take bladesinger into epic, which means higher level spells quicken 1/day, as well as a high spellcraft. So, what do you think?
Jaisin 03-01-06, 02:51 PM	I like the build; thank you for taking the time to post it. The only problem are the levels with 2 PrC's, as Gestalt doesn't allow for a PrC to be taken on both sides (as I also loved the idea of Archmage). Alertness as a virtual feat from a familiar might help free up another feat.
swanyusd 03-01-06, 05:32 PM	You're right about the 2PrC thing, I totally forgot. I guess you could get rid of archmage, and put wizard there. This will get you one more bonus wizard feat. You also wont need to worry about 2 spell focus feats and skill focus(spellcraft). OR, you could remove stalker of kharesh, and move champion of corellon down the line. Then I suppose taking ranger more would work, although suboptimal. Hmmm, I guess decide what you would rather have, CoCL or Stalker and then add in another base class. Maybe scout would work here? If you took ranger to fill out the class instead, I think the archery line of feats would be better than the TWfing feats, since bladesinger is a single weapon based class. Although another option is going with a tempest/dervish combo instead of bladesinger, but then you lose on all the elven flavor. It's a tough call. Just decide what to remove, CoCl or Stalker, and then add some levels of a base class that you like in place of it. If you like archmage, eliminate the stalker and CoCl, and put even more base classes in there. I guess this one is up to you. Sorry for making it more complicated than it needed to be.