A Modest "Battle Bard" [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Modest "Battle Bard" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ithilorien
08-10-04, 10:29 PM Hey folks, I'm starting in a new campaing, beginning at level 10, with fairly strict rules on multi- and prestige-classing (basically a single prestige class is the most the DM sounds open to).

Thus, the typical wonder of combining 2-5 levels of various prestige classes is not open to me.

The final build I'm thinking of using is Bard 16/ War Chanter 4. To give me the coveted +16 BAB, a few extra hit points, and some more interesting musical choices.

Relevant feats would be: arcane strike, combat expertise, lingering song, weapon focus (rapier), and weapon finesse.

The character will be primarilly a self-buffing, bardsonging, melee fighter with rapier and buckler.

Starting off I'm thinking of bard 9/ war chanter 1.

Any suggestions for creating a "battle bard" under these constraints? Any input (even "War Chanter sucks") would be appreciated.
Blade2718
08-10-04, 10:42 PM Warchanter is your best bet.

But if Warrior Skald is 5 levels (I don't remember off the top of my head), see if your DM will let you start in Warrior Skald, finish, and start a 2nd PrC, Warchanter.
Snow Savant
08-10-04, 10:45 PM 16 levels of Bard Song is enough. And as much as I like Inspire Recklessness from War Chanter-3, I think the direction of your build would be more suited to enhancing your martial abilities and make the "Battle" part of your Bard a little stronger. Since you can have only 1 PrC, I would go:

Bard16 / Ftr1 / SpellSword3

Getting you BAB +16, *18* spellcaster levels (to combo with your Arcane Strike), 2 bonus Fighter feats, and an ASF subtraction that you can help finagle medium magick armor into light magick armor to satisfy your Bard restrictions. Your saves are pretty spiffy as well.

... or ...

Bard16 / Ftr2 / SoldierofLight2

SoL is from the Deities and Demigods book. SoL-1 gives your turning. Which means you can now take the feat chain of Power Attack / Divine Might to supplement your uber-high CHA. Divine Might + Arcane Strike makes for some fairly potent damage output with your Rapier. SoL-2 gives you CHA Mod.-to-Saves. And of course, that just totally rules. Ftr-2 is a solid 2 feats, which your build can definitely use.

XO,
Snow :cloud9:
Mommy was an Orc
08-11-04, 02:14 AM I'd aim for Bard 14/Barbarian 1/War Chanter 5 myself. When you consider the advantages of being able to use Inspire Courage/Greatness on yourself(and others) in the same round - +5 to hit/damage is not to be sneered at.

Also, build your character with stats similar to what a Barbarian with a high charisma might take, not that of what a Bard might take. With a 14 Charisma and a +2 Item, you'll be fine if you're levelling up Strength.

Originally posted by Ithilorien
Any suggestions for creating a "battle bard" under these constraints? Any input (even "War Chanter sucks") would be appreciated.
CompleteSatori
08-11-04, 09:27 AM Well the best question to ask yourself and for us to ask you before we even give you a build, is...

What kind of campaign are you playing in? What is the setting, what are you expecting as far as foes and encounters are concerned?

It is very relative since there are 3 good "Bard" PrC's, and each of them excels at a certain aspect of the game, or certain kinds of combat, etc.

First off, with that many levels of Bard, you want to know if you are going to be affecting any more people other than your Party with your Inspire/Heroism etc songs.
If you are NOT, then consider going with Warrior Skald through all 10 levels. It's fighter base attack, 2 favored saves and good skill selection, and its prereqs fit well in a melee characters build (Power Attack/Cleave/Perform), and its Heroism song is a vast improvement on the Bard's (+4 to Attack/Damage/Saves/AC on 1+1 per 3 character levels) above 5th.
If you ARE encountering a lot of mass combats, where you want to affect dozens of people with a song, go the Warchanter route, and get all 10 levels, but really I only suggest this for large scale combat parties.
Snow's Spellsword concept is a good one, just make sure you want to be that kind of bard.

No matter what route you decide to take, make sure you have the prereqs for and take Words of Creation, since the ability to double the affects of your positive songs, and add +2 to the DC of all of your negative songs, is excellent. Also consider Dragonsong from Draconomicon, as that adds a passive +2 to the DC's of your songs as well.

EDIT: I almost didn't mention it because I assume every bard takes it, but Lingering Song is the feat you MUST have.
Ithilorien
08-11-04, 02:01 PM The campaign is setin a Celtic-inspired homebrew world of the DM's creation. The party is made up of four players/characters including myself. The others are playing a 12th-level human fighter, a 12th-level human wizard, and a 10th-level human druid.

It's supposed to be a "roleplaying heavy" campaign but I sat in a session last week that convinced me while they guys may be all about roleplaying, when there's a fight it's a fight. The last session featured spriggans, fomorians, trolls, and a large coven of witches (including more trolls and three hags).

So what I'm looking for in my bard is primarilly survivability, but I still want the character to be "thouroughly bardic" in terms of the magical and musical selections. I love the bardic spell list. For this reason I tend to try and avoid PrCing my bards as it always means sacrificing something (in the case of War Chanter and Warrior Skald my beloved bard spells).

This would make Memory Smith (with it's fighter BAB, good fort and will saves, d8 hit die, and full bardic music and magic progression) a great choice, but for its dwarven/Moradin focus (I personally dislike dwarves and they're "rare to the point of legend" in the campaign world). Perhaps I should propose a homebrew variant of Memory Smith which removes the dwarven components in favor of a more generic "Warrior Bard" flavor?

Are there any other classes which'll boost hit points and BAB as well as music and magic?
Blade2718
08-11-04, 02:26 PM Straight Bard?
Ithilorien
08-11-04, 02:32 PM It's a theory, one I'm leaning towards with the exception of maybe the 4-level dip into "something else."

Concerns about something more bardic as a PrC is for something over 4 levels, as bard 16 is pretty close to straight bard, but any more than that starts to cut elements out.
Ranthanas
08-11-04, 05:45 PM Do you have Dragon #311?

If not, Straight Bard.

If Dragon 311 is allowed, either four levels of World Speaker of 5 levels of Memory Smith.

(World Speaker 4 sacrifices a couple of pre-requisite skills (and entry to epic bard), but gains 2 effective levels of Bardic Lore, the ability to speak with most things and 9 points worth of saves, while Memory Smith keeps up magic and has full BAB (and high fort and will saves) and gives 10 bonus spells)
Ithilorien
08-11-04, 06:28 PM Any ideas on how I get my hands on Dragon 311? Never had an issue before . . .

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ithilorien 08-10-04, 10:29 PM	Hey folks, I'm starting in a new campaing, beginning at level 10, with fairly strict rules on multi- and prestige-classing (basically a single prestige class is the most the DM sounds open to). Thus, the typical wonder of combining 2-5 levels of various prestige classes is not open to me. The final build I'm thinking of using is Bard 16/ War Chanter 4. To give me the coveted +16 BAB, a few extra hit points, and some more interesting musical choices. Relevant feats would be: arcane strike, combat expertise, lingering song, weapon focus (rapier), and weapon finesse. The character will be primarilly a self-buffing, bardsonging, melee fighter with rapier and buckler. Starting off I'm thinking of bard 9/ war chanter 1. Any suggestions for creating a "battle bard" under these constraints? Any input (even "War Chanter sucks") would be appreciated.
Blade2718 08-10-04, 10:42 PM	Warchanter is your best bet. But if Warrior Skald is 5 levels (I don't remember off the top of my head), see if your DM will let you start in Warrior Skald, finish, and start a 2nd PrC, Warchanter.
Snow Savant 08-10-04, 10:45 PM	16 levels of Bard Song is enough. And as much as I like Inspire Recklessness from War Chanter-3, I think the direction of your build would be more suited to enhancing your martial abilities and make the "Battle" part of your Bard a little stronger. Since you can have only 1 PrC, I would go: Bard16 / Ftr1 / SpellSword3 Getting you BAB +16, 18 spellcaster levels (to combo with your Arcane Strike), 2 bonus Fighter feats, and an ASF subtraction that you can help finagle medium magick armor into light magick armor to satisfy your Bard restrictions. Your saves are pretty spiffy as well. ... or ... Bard16 / Ftr2 / SoldierofLight2 SoL is from the Deities and Demigods book. SoL-1 gives your turning. Which means you can now take the feat chain of Power Attack / Divine Might to supplement your uber-high CHA. Divine Might + Arcane Strike makes for some fairly potent damage output with your Rapier. SoL-2 gives you CHA Mod.-to-Saves. And of course, that just totally rules. Ftr-2 is a solid 2 feats, which your build can definitely use. XO, Snow :cloud9:
Mommy was an Orc 08-11-04, 02:14 AM	I'd aim for Bard 14/Barbarian 1/War Chanter 5 myself. When you consider the advantages of being able to use Inspire Courage/Greatness on yourself(and others) in the same round - +5 to hit/damage is not to be sneered at. Also, build your character with stats similar to what a Barbarian with a high charisma might take, not that of what a Bard might take. With a 14 Charisma and a +2 Item, you'll be fine if you're levelling up Strength. Originally posted by Ithilorien Any suggestions for creating a "battle bard" under these constraints? Any input (even "War Chanter sucks") would be appreciated.
CompleteSatori 08-11-04, 09:27 AM	Well the best question to ask yourself and for us to ask you before we even give you a build, is... What kind of campaign are you playing in? What is the setting, what are you expecting as far as foes and encounters are concerned? It is very relative since there are 3 good "Bard" PrC's, and each of them excels at a certain aspect of the game, or certain kinds of combat, etc. First off, with that many levels of Bard, you want to know if you are going to be affecting any more people other than your Party with your Inspire/Heroism etc songs. If you are NOT, then consider going with Warrior Skald through all 10 levels. It's fighter base attack, 2 favored saves and good skill selection, and its prereqs fit well in a melee characters build (Power Attack/Cleave/Perform), and its Heroism song is a vast improvement on the Bard's (+4 to Attack/Damage/Saves/AC on 1+1 per 3 character levels) above 5th. If you ARE encountering a lot of mass combats, where you want to affect dozens of people with a song, go the Warchanter route, and get all 10 levels, but really I only suggest this for large scale combat parties. Snow's Spellsword concept is a good one, just make sure you want to be that kind of bard. No matter what route you decide to take, make sure you have the prereqs for and take Words of Creation, since the ability to double the affects of your positive songs, and add +2 to the DC of all of your negative songs, is excellent. Also consider Dragonsong from Draconomicon, as that adds a passive +2 to the DC's of your songs as well. EDIT: I almost didn't mention it because I assume every bard takes it, but Lingering Song is the feat you MUST have.
Ithilorien 08-11-04, 02:01 PM	The campaign is setin a Celtic-inspired homebrew world of the DM's creation. The party is made up of four players/characters including myself. The others are playing a 12th-level human fighter, a 12th-level human wizard, and a 10th-level human druid. It's supposed to be a "roleplaying heavy" campaign but I sat in a session last week that convinced me while they guys may be all about roleplaying, when there's a fight it's a fight. The last session featured spriggans, fomorians, trolls, and a large coven of witches (including more trolls and three hags). So what I'm looking for in my bard is primarilly survivability, but I still want the character to be "thouroughly bardic" in terms of the magical and musical selections. I love the bardic spell list. For this reason I tend to try and avoid PrCing my bards as it always means sacrificing something (in the case of War Chanter and Warrior Skald my beloved bard spells). This would make Memory Smith (with it's fighter BAB, good fort and will saves, d8 hit die, and full bardic music and magic progression) a great choice, but for its dwarven/Moradin focus (I personally dislike dwarves and they're "rare to the point of legend" in the campaign world). Perhaps I should propose a homebrew variant of Memory Smith which removes the dwarven components in favor of a more generic "Warrior Bard" flavor? Are there any other classes which'll boost hit points and BAB as well as music and magic?
Blade2718 08-11-04, 02:26 PM	Straight Bard?
Ithilorien 08-11-04, 02:32 PM	It's a theory, one I'm leaning towards with the exception of maybe the 4-level dip into "something else." Concerns about something more bardic as a PrC is for something over 4 levels, as bard 16 is pretty close to straight bard, but any more than that starts to cut elements out.
Ranthanas 08-11-04, 05:45 PM	Do you have Dragon #311? If not, Straight Bard. If Dragon 311 is allowed, either four levels of World Speaker of 5 levels of Memory Smith. (World Speaker 4 sacrifices a couple of pre-requisite skills (and entry to epic bard), but gains 2 effective levels of Bardic Lore, the ability to speak with most things and 9 points worth of saves, while Memory Smith keeps up magic and has full BAB (and high fort and will saves) and gives 10 bonus spells)
Ithilorien 08-11-04, 06:28 PM	Any ideas on how I get my hands on Dragon 311? Never had an issue before . . .