A modest Hathran-esque build [Archive] - Wizards Community

A modest Hathran-esque build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Stoned Golem
12-19-03, 07:03 PM File this one under Y for "You know the designers didn't intend for this to happen" but I don't think it's as blatant as certain other potential combinations involving the Sha'ir.

Human female Sha'ir 4/Geomancer 10/Contemplative 1/Hathran 4/? 1

You'll need: Ethran, Education
You'll probably want: Augment Summoning, Rashemi Elemental Summoning

First of all, you're primarily an arcane caster but don't have to worry about spell failure, which is cool, plus you get a full set of drifts from the Geomancer abuse. Coming out slightly ahead on HD and BAB doesn't suck either.

Also, this build has a serious home turf advantage. While in Rashemen, Place Magic eliminates a lot of the Sha'ir spellcasting hassles. While your gen is off digging around for a rare spell you can cast any of the ones you know (arcane or divine) just by taking a full-round action. Also the Ley Lines ability synergizes nicely here too. Choose them well and you'll always have a boosted caster level while at home. Of course this isn't much benefit to a PC unless she's planning on finding plenty of adventure close to home or using it to prep for a coming expedition, but it's great for a NPC.

I see this build as having a summoning focus, so that makes the domain choice from Contemplative pretty obvious for me, but anything's possible. Losing one level of arcane casting to Contemplative hardly hurts at all thanks to the Sha'ir spell acquisition mechanic, especially if you're at home to take advantage of the place magic and ley lines benefits. More importantly though, Contemplative gives you Cleric casting, which thanks to Geomancer lets you spontaneously convert any of your arcane spells into healing (I think). If not, a level of actual cleric would let you do it instead if you're going for the versatility angle.

As for how to finish it, I'm not quite sure. Nar Demonbinder is a possibility if only for Inimical Casting. I don't have it in front of me, but if I recall Sha'ir get access to some but not all of the Holy Word/Blasphemy/Word of Chaos/Dictum spells. With ND and caster level-boosting via Circle Leader (make that cohort work) you could make most anything's head explode regardless of its alignment. ND just doesn't seem to fit with the elemental/natural/arcane-divine mixing theme that all three of the others share though. Hierophant would be another possibility since you could use Spell-Like Ability to get around the godawful wait for your favorite divine spell.
Lord Likk
12-19-03, 07:24 PM whether it's gained through contemplative or cleric. it seems to me that the class focused on the owrd spell-CASTING. it was the casting quirks of the 2 classes you've got that you could mix and match. the spell lists of each, though, remained independent, and preparation was a non-issue. what i'm getting at here is that it doesn't make sense that you can lose one arcane spell, and gain another divine one. if you had healing spells in your spellbook/spells known, that'd be one thing.
catharz
12-20-03, 02:20 AM You don't *have* to advance Cleric with Contemplative, Sha'ir is a divine spellcasting class too (which I assume is how you qualify for Geomancer).
I think it would also be possible to cut it down to three Sha'ir levels.
Balthanon
12-20-03, 08:13 AM I don't think Sha'ir would be considered as granting divine spellcasting for the purposes of geomancer and hathran pre-requisites. The description makes it seem more along the lines of a sorcerer picking up a domain than the Sha'ir actually casting a divine spell. It's probably not going to be game breaking if you allowed it, due to the limitations the Sha'ir have (primarily the length of time it takes to summon a spell), but it's probably not strictly legal. (To tell the truth, it might be closer to say that the Sha'ir are neither divine or arcane spellcasters, since the means by which they cast spells doesn't really match either of these types.)
Snow Savant
12-20-03, 09:15 AM Balthanon said:
I don't think Sha'ir would be considered as granting divine spellcasting for the purposes of geomancer and hathran pre-requisites. The description makes it seem more along the lines of a sorcerer picking up a domain than the Sha'ir actually casting a divine spell.

Bal, I re-read the Sha'ir's divine/arcane spellcasting capability description a good 4 or 5 times. Even running it by my group's resident English Professor. And I came to the same conclusion as Stoned Golem (read my post in this earlier thread here - * here *. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148606&highlight=Shair)). The verbiage of the Sha'ir's spellcasting text indicates his divine spells he casts are indeed, *divine* in origina and in manifestation.

Who knows if the designer or writer of this PrC intended for this to be the case or thought devious min/maxers would find a way to get divine PrC's to plug-&-play with this alternate arcane core class. And as you stated Bal, I don't think Stoned Golem's build is *too* broken. That time delay constraint really makes the Sha'i a challenging class to play from a time management perspective - both for the DM and player/party.

Nice work, S. Golem!

Snow :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Stoned Golem 12-19-03, 07:03 PM	File this one under Y for "You know the designers didn't intend for this to happen" but I don't think it's as blatant as certain other potential combinations involving the Sha'ir. Human female Sha'ir 4/Geomancer 10/Contemplative 1/Hathran 4/? 1 You'll need: Ethran, Education You'll probably want: Augment Summoning, Rashemi Elemental Summoning First of all, you're primarily an arcane caster but don't have to worry about spell failure, which is cool, plus you get a full set of drifts from the Geomancer abuse. Coming out slightly ahead on HD and BAB doesn't suck either. Also, this build has a serious home turf advantage. While in Rashemen, Place Magic eliminates a lot of the Sha'ir spellcasting hassles. While your gen is off digging around for a rare spell you can cast any of the ones you know (arcane or divine) just by taking a full-round action. Also the Ley Lines ability synergizes nicely here too. Choose them well and you'll always have a boosted caster level while at home. Of course this isn't much benefit to a PC unless she's planning on finding plenty of adventure close to home or using it to prep for a coming expedition, but it's great for a NPC. I see this build as having a summoning focus, so that makes the domain choice from Contemplative pretty obvious for me, but anything's possible. Losing one level of arcane casting to Contemplative hardly hurts at all thanks to the Sha'ir spell acquisition mechanic, especially if you're at home to take advantage of the place magic and ley lines benefits. More importantly though, Contemplative gives you Cleric casting, which thanks to Geomancer lets you spontaneously convert any of your arcane spells into healing (I think). If not, a level of actual cleric would let you do it instead if you're going for the versatility angle. As for how to finish it, I'm not quite sure. Nar Demonbinder is a possibility if only for Inimical Casting. I don't have it in front of me, but if I recall Sha'ir get access to some but not all of the Holy Word/Blasphemy/Word of Chaos/Dictum spells. With ND and caster level-boosting via Circle Leader (make that cohort work) you could make most anything's head explode regardless of its alignment. ND just doesn't seem to fit with the elemental/natural/arcane-divine mixing theme that all three of the others share though. Hierophant would be another possibility since you could use Spell-Like Ability to get around the godawful wait for your favorite divine spell.
Lord Likk 12-19-03, 07:24 PM	whether it's gained through contemplative or cleric. it seems to me that the class focused on the owrd spell-CASTING. it was the casting quirks of the 2 classes you've got that you could mix and match. the spell lists of each, though, remained independent, and preparation was a non-issue. what i'm getting at here is that it doesn't make sense that you can lose one arcane spell, and gain another divine one. if you had healing spells in your spellbook/spells known, that'd be one thing.
catharz 12-20-03, 02:20 AM	You don't have to advance Cleric with Contemplative, Sha'ir is a divine spellcasting class too (which I assume is how you qualify for Geomancer). I think it would also be possible to cut it down to three Sha'ir levels.
Balthanon 12-20-03, 08:13 AM	I don't think Sha'ir would be considered as granting divine spellcasting for the purposes of geomancer and hathran pre-requisites. The description makes it seem more along the lines of a sorcerer picking up a domain than the Sha'ir actually casting a divine spell. It's probably not going to be game breaking if you allowed it, due to the limitations the Sha'ir have (primarily the length of time it takes to summon a spell), but it's probably not strictly legal. (To tell the truth, it might be closer to say that the Sha'ir are neither divine or arcane spellcasters, since the means by which they cast spells doesn't really match either of these types.)
Snow Savant 12-20-03, 09:15 AM	Balthanon said: I don't think Sha'ir would be considered as granting divine spellcasting for the purposes of geomancer and hathran pre-requisites. The description makes it seem more along the lines of a sorcerer picking up a domain than the Sha'ir actually casting a divine spell. Bal, I re-read the Sha'ir's divine/arcane spellcasting capability description a good 4 or 5 times. Even running it by my group's resident English Professor. And I came to the same conclusion as Stoned Golem (read my post in this earlier thread here - * here . (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148606&highlight=Shair)). The verbiage of the Sha'ir's spellcasting text indicates his divine spells he casts are indeed, divine* in origina and in manifestation. Who knows if the designer or writer of this PrC intended for this to be the case or thought devious min/maxers would find a way to get divine PrC's to plug-&-play with this alternate arcane core class. And as you stated Bal, I don't think Stoned Golem's build is too broken. That time delay constraint really makes the Sha'i a challenging class to play from a time management perspective - both for the DM and player/party. Nice work, S. Golem! Snow :)