A Monk focused on Wisdom [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Monk focused on Wisdom [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Schmerdro
11-18-05, 04:03 AM My party is in need of a fighter... he can be slow but he has to be tough, and I'd like it if he couldn't cast too many spells.

At first I was thinking of a Druid multiclassed with a Monk (8/12) which would've given me Wild Shape 3/day, Large with 3d6 unarmed damage, +2 AC, and some nifty Monk and Druid stuff. Or, I coud go Druid/Shifter/Monk (5/?/?) for either 7 or 10 levels of Shifter (instead of 3 Shifter levels, I'd rather have 3 Druid levels). Or just go with some combination of Monks with a Large race, a +1/2/3 LA and that doesn't care about Wisdom. Which do you think is the strongest? (I don't care too much about skills)
deathwishjoe
11-18-05, 04:44 AM lets get really optimized (IE cheesy). lets just forget druid and go with the divine minion template found here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a. go human divine minion LA 1/monk 1/ Master of many forms 7/ warshaper 4/monk 7. this build will be very strong from level 3 on up. solid build and you should be able to tank with from an early level as well.
AllistairAldred
11-18-05, 03:32 PM I had alot of fun with this build, and it is pretty optimized. Cleric 3/Monk 3/sacred fist 10/Divine Variant Enlightened Fist 4

The divine Variant for Enlightened fist is mentioned in the adaptation portion of the class descirtion. But you end up with Good monk Damage a really high AC espoecially if you throw on the good armor items, Amulet of Natural Armor, Bracers of Armor, and Ring of protection, say you have 20 dex and 20 wis thats, 38 AC while wearing no armor, not to mention a cloak of displacement, a +4 sacred bonus to AC and saves as well as wisdom to damage for a few round twice per day, coupled with monk and cleric tricks, and whatever feats you want aside from combat casting (persistant spell and divine metamagic very much?) This is a very flexible, fun, and effective build.
Schmerdro
11-18-05, 04:58 PM Hmmm, how does "fast healing 2" work?
Surreal
11-18-05, 05:02 PM Hmmm, how does "fast healing 2" work?
You heal 2 hit points each round.
Surreal
11-18-05, 05:05 PM Hmm, druid/monk with low spellcasting?

How about Druid 5/Monk 2/Master of Many Forms 7/Sacred Fist 4/Chameleon 2

You get all the best stuff from MoMF, the floating feat from Chameleon to get your changeable 'assume supernatural ability', and monk abilities which lets you mix in unarmed strikes (with sacred flames) with your natural attack routine, as well as adding Wis to AC.
Aramas
11-18-05, 05:07 PM Even better would be the Wildshaping Ranger variant from UA.
Schmerdro
11-18-05, 05:59 PM Weird, I can't find the Sacred Fist nor the Chameleon in my books... could you tell me where they're supposed to be?

Oh, and I like that "Druid 5/Monk 2/Master of Many Forms 7/Sacred Fist 4/Chameleon 2" but why didn't you put 10 levels of MoMF and take out 3 levels from Sacred Fist or the Chameleon/Monk? I think the Gargantuan and Dragon forms would be worth it.
Xeraph
11-18-05, 06:55 PM Monk focused on Wisdom...

Dwarf Monk (Passive Way) 2/ Paladin 2/ Survivalist (Fighter Variant) 2/ Exotic Weapon Master 1/ Shiba Protector 10/ Deepwarden 2/ Pious Templar 1

1 Monk 1 Alertness, Combat Expertise (Monk Bonus Feat)
2 Paladin 1
3 Paladin 2 Serenity
4 Survivalist 1 Iron Will (Survivalist Bonus Feat)
5 Survivalist 2 Weapon Focus: Dwarven Waraxe (Survivalist Bonus Feat)
6 Exotic Weapon Master 1 Endurance
7 Shiba Protector 1
8 Deepwarden 1
9 Deepwarden 2 Power Attack
10 Shiba Protector 2
11 Shiba Protector 3
12 Shiba Protector 4 Mage Slayer
13 Shiba Protector 5
14 Shiba Protector 6
15 Shiba Protector 7 Something...
16 Shiba Protector 8
17 Shiba Protector 9
18 Monk 2 True Believer, Improved Trip(Monk Bonus Feat)
19 Pious Templar 1
20 Shiba Protector 10 or Exotic Weapon Master for Trip attack

Now, lets see:

Base Attack Bonus: +16 (Epic Ready)
Base Saves: Fort: +20, Ref: +6 and Will: +14

Abilities and Feats of notice:
Serenity (Lets you use Wisdom instead of Charisma for all Paladin Abilities)
Divine Grace (Add Wisdom to Saves)
Diamond Soul (Spell Resistance 10 + Wisdom Modifier)
No Thought (Add Wisdom to hit and to damage)
Monk AC (Add Wisdom to AC)
Evasion (Always nice with Divine Grace)
Mettle (As Evasion, but with Will and Fort)
Dancing With the Elements (+6 bonus to saves against spells and spell-like abilities)
True Believer (Another +2 bonus to a single save 1/day)
Uncanny Blow (Double Strength output when wielding a Dwarven Waraxe in two hands)
Stone Warden (Constitution mod to AC instead of Dexterity)

All you need is Strength, Constitution and Wisdom and you will be invincible.

Well, just an idea anyways.
tsuyoshikentsu
11-19-05, 02:18 AM Lawful Good (sorry) Phoenix-Clan Human Monk 5/Cleric 1/Sacred Fist 4/Shiba Protector 10. Make sure you take Intuitive Attack. And get yourself a necklace of natural attacks, ASAP. Greater Magic Fang + Permanency wouldn't hurt, either.

If you want a more defensive build, add the Saint template, kill Sacred Fist and Cleric entirely, and take Zen Archery as well. Plink away with a sling or something from the back. Take at least two levels of Paladin and take the feat Serenity.

Either way, One with All and Nothing is an awesome way to kill MAD. And, you know, fix basically any roll-wise shortcoming of this build.
Schmerdro
11-19-05, 09:15 AM Is there any way to get the Wild shape class feature in less than 5 levels?

Btw, thanks for all your suggestions... it'll take some time to properly digest them so that's why I'm not responding too much.
Xeraph
11-19-05, 10:27 AM Divine Minion Template (Which is found by a quick search here www.wizards.com/dnd)
Schmerdro
11-19-05, 11:37 AM Oh yeah, almost forgot that one (though I find it a bit too restricting RP-wise)... any other way to get wild shape with less than 5 levels?
Schmerdro
11-20-05, 06:48 AM :bump:
Schmerdro
11-20-05, 04:20 PM Ok, last bump... after this I'll just let this thread die.
Xeraph
11-21-05, 02:15 AM Divine Minion Template 4TW!!!11eleven!!! (Deathwishjoe r0xEr5 teH yu0r BuII_d)

Sacred Fist = Complete Divine
Chameleon = Races of Destiny
Surreal
11-21-05, 02:41 AM Oh, and I like that "Druid 5/Monk 2/Master of Many Forms 7/Sacred Fist 4/Chameleon 2" but why didn't you put 10 levels of MoMF and take out 3 levels from Sacred Fist or the Chameleon/Monk? I think the Gargantuan and Dragon forms would be worth it.

The second level of monk unnecessary, but it gives you +1 to BAB and all your saves, as well as Combat Reflexes, which is pretty darn good for one level.

MoMF 7 is arguably the best cut off point since you get the Ex abilities of the creatures you wildshape into. I just stuck Sacred Fist in there because I like the idea of wildshaping into a War Troll and mixing unarmed attacks with natural attacks. Apart from the increase in casting (which is never a bad thing), Sacred Fist 4 gives you a flaming ability for your fists too, which increases damage.

If you'd rather have dragon forms, then by all means drop the SF and finish off your MoMF levels.

If you ditch SF and Monk altogether, pick up two levels of Ninja instead. It stills gives you Wis to AC, invisibility as a swift action, and gives you the necessary skills to get into Chameleon earlier, because that changeable floating feat for Assume Supernatural Ability combined with MoMF is just that good.
Lorimo the Disbeliever
11-21-05, 02:50 AM Dwarf Monk (Passive Way) 2/ Paladin 2/ Survivalist (Fighter Variant) 2/ Exotic Weapon Master 1/ Shiba Protector 10/ Deepwarden 2/ Pious Templar 1

Shiba requires Human(Phoenix)
Serenity -> worshipping Rao(does not exist in Rokugan)

CONCLUSION: Doesn't work, sorry.
Xeraph
11-21-05, 11:11 AM Pfft. Hater. "If it has a place in DND, it has a place in Eberron" = Legal.
catharz
11-21-05, 04:38 PM Schmerdro, you might want to change the thread title. If you're asking for a shapechanger, ask for that, and if you want a wisdom-focused monk...well, here are a number of things to help:

Serenity, from Dragon 306, has already been mentioned, as has Shiba Protector from OA.

Intuitive Strike [BoED] is a vital feat for a Wis-monk.

For a full build, I'd try something like Monk 2/Paladin 2 (if Serenity)/Psychic Warrior 1/Warmind 5/Psychic Weapon Master (gauntlets, or better Warforged with Battlefist) 10.
Schmerdro
11-22-05, 03:14 PM The main reason why I like the Master of Many Formes is because I can focus on only one ability (Wisdom) and just forget about everything else... except maybe Intelligence.

Anyway, thanks for all your help. It's always nice to have some classes (and builds, in this case) suggested instead of going through all your books and picking them out.
coreyzat
11-22-05, 04:25 PM The only problem I see with the Druid5/MoMF 7/etc build is that you are limited to 12HD creature for wildshape. While that certainly gives some good options, why would you limit yourself that way?
Surreal
11-22-05, 05:32 PM Because sometimes the abilities picked up by a non-wildshape class outweighs higher wildshape hd forms.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Schmerdro 11-18-05, 04:03 AM	My party is in need of a fighter... he can be slow but he has to be tough, and I'd like it if he couldn't cast too many spells. At first I was thinking of a Druid multiclassed with a Monk (8/12) which would've given me Wild Shape 3/day, Large with 3d6 unarmed damage, +2 AC, and some nifty Monk and Druid stuff. Or, I coud go Druid/Shifter/Monk (5/?/?) for either 7 or 10 levels of Shifter (instead of 3 Shifter levels, I'd rather have 3 Druid levels). Or just go with some combination of Monks with a Large race, a +1/2/3 LA and that doesn't care about Wisdom. Which do you think is the strongest? (I don't care too much about skills)
deathwishjoe 11-18-05, 04:44 AM	lets get really optimized (IE cheesy). lets just forget druid and go with the divine minion template found here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a. go human divine minion LA 1/monk 1/ Master of many forms 7/ warshaper 4/monk 7. this build will be very strong from level 3 on up. solid build and you should be able to tank with from an early level as well.
AllistairAldred 11-18-05, 03:32 PM	I had alot of fun with this build, and it is pretty optimized. Cleric 3/Monk 3/sacred fist 10/Divine Variant Enlightened Fist 4 The divine Variant for Enlightened fist is mentioned in the adaptation portion of the class descirtion. But you end up with Good monk Damage a really high AC espoecially if you throw on the good armor items, Amulet of Natural Armor, Bracers of Armor, and Ring of protection, say you have 20 dex and 20 wis thats, 38 AC while wearing no armor, not to mention a cloak of displacement, a +4 sacred bonus to AC and saves as well as wisdom to damage for a few round twice per day, coupled with monk and cleric tricks, and whatever feats you want aside from combat casting (persistant spell and divine metamagic very much?) This is a very flexible, fun, and effective build.
Schmerdro 11-18-05, 04:58 PM	Hmmm, how does "fast healing 2" work?
Surreal 11-18-05, 05:02 PM	Hmmm, how does "fast healing 2" work? You heal 2 hit points each round.
Surreal 11-18-05, 05:05 PM	Hmm, druid/monk with low spellcasting? How about Druid 5/Monk 2/Master of Many Forms 7/Sacred Fist 4/Chameleon 2 You get all the best stuff from MoMF, the floating feat from Chameleon to get your changeable 'assume supernatural ability', and monk abilities which lets you mix in unarmed strikes (with sacred flames) with your natural attack routine, as well as adding Wis to AC.
Aramas 11-18-05, 05:07 PM	Even better would be the Wildshaping Ranger variant from UA.
Schmerdro 11-18-05, 05:59 PM	Weird, I can't find the Sacred Fist nor the Chameleon in my books... could you tell me where they're supposed to be? Oh, and I like that "Druid 5/Monk 2/Master of Many Forms 7/Sacred Fist 4/Chameleon 2" but why didn't you put 10 levels of MoMF and take out 3 levels from Sacred Fist or the Chameleon/Monk? I think the Gargantuan and Dragon forms would be worth it.
Xeraph 11-18-05, 06:55 PM	Monk focused on Wisdom... Dwarf Monk (Passive Way) 2/ Paladin 2/ Survivalist (Fighter Variant) 2/ Exotic Weapon Master 1/ Shiba Protector 10/ Deepwarden 2/ Pious Templar 1 1 Monk 1 Alertness, Combat Expertise (Monk Bonus Feat) 2 Paladin 1 3 Paladin 2 Serenity 4 Survivalist 1 Iron Will (Survivalist Bonus Feat) 5 Survivalist 2 Weapon Focus: Dwarven Waraxe (Survivalist Bonus Feat) 6 Exotic Weapon Master 1 Endurance 7 Shiba Protector 1 8 Deepwarden 1 9 Deepwarden 2 Power Attack 10 Shiba Protector 2 11 Shiba Protector 3 12 Shiba Protector 4 Mage Slayer 13 Shiba Protector 5 14 Shiba Protector 6 15 Shiba Protector 7 Something... 16 Shiba Protector 8 17 Shiba Protector 9 18 Monk 2 True Believer, Improved Trip(Monk Bonus Feat) 19 Pious Templar 1 20 Shiba Protector 10 or Exotic Weapon Master for Trip attack Now, lets see: Base Attack Bonus: +16 (Epic Ready) Base Saves: Fort: +20, Ref: +6 and Will: +14 Abilities and Feats of notice: Serenity (Lets you use Wisdom instead of Charisma for all Paladin Abilities) Divine Grace (Add Wisdom to Saves) Diamond Soul (Spell Resistance 10 + Wisdom Modifier) No Thought (Add Wisdom to hit and to damage) Monk AC (Add Wisdom to AC) Evasion (Always nice with Divine Grace) Mettle (As Evasion, but with Will and Fort) Dancing With the Elements (+6 bonus to saves against spells and spell-like abilities) True Believer (Another +2 bonus to a single save 1/day) Uncanny Blow (Double Strength output when wielding a Dwarven Waraxe in two hands) Stone Warden (Constitution mod to AC instead of Dexterity) All you need is Strength, Constitution and Wisdom and you will be invincible. Well, just an idea anyways.
tsuyoshikentsu 11-19-05, 02:18 AM	Lawful Good (sorry) Phoenix-Clan Human Monk 5/Cleric 1/Sacred Fist 4/Shiba Protector 10. Make sure you take Intuitive Attack. And get yourself a necklace of natural attacks, ASAP. Greater Magic Fang + Permanency wouldn't hurt, either. If you want a more defensive build, add the Saint template, kill Sacred Fist and Cleric entirely, and take Zen Archery as well. Plink away with a sling or something from the back. Take at least two levels of Paladin and take the feat Serenity. Either way, One with All and Nothing is an awesome way to kill MAD. And, you know, fix basically any roll-wise shortcoming of this build.
Schmerdro 11-19-05, 09:15 AM	Is there any way to get the Wild shape class feature in less than 5 levels? Btw, thanks for all your suggestions... it'll take some time to properly digest them so that's why I'm not responding too much.
Xeraph 11-19-05, 10:27 AM	Divine Minion Template (Which is found by a quick search here www.wizards.com/dnd)
Schmerdro 11-19-05, 11:37 AM	Oh yeah, almost forgot that one (though I find it a bit too restricting RP-wise)... any other way to get wild shape with less than 5 levels?
Schmerdro 11-20-05, 06:48 AM	:bump:
Schmerdro 11-20-05, 04:20 PM	Ok, last bump... after this I'll just let this thread die.
Xeraph 11-21-05, 02:15 AM	Divine Minion Template 4TW!!!11eleven!!! (Deathwishjoe r0xEr5 teH yu0r BuII_d) Sacred Fist = Complete Divine Chameleon = Races of Destiny
Surreal 11-21-05, 02:41 AM	Oh, and I like that "Druid 5/Monk 2/Master of Many Forms 7/Sacred Fist 4/Chameleon 2" but why didn't you put 10 levels of MoMF and take out 3 levels from Sacred Fist or the Chameleon/Monk? I think the Gargantuan and Dragon forms would be worth it. The second level of monk unnecessary, but it gives you +1 to BAB and all your saves, as well as Combat Reflexes, which is pretty darn good for one level. MoMF 7 is arguably the best cut off point since you get the Ex abilities of the creatures you wildshape into. I just stuck Sacred Fist in there because I like the idea of wildshaping into a War Troll and mixing unarmed attacks with natural attacks. Apart from the increase in casting (which is never a bad thing), Sacred Fist 4 gives you a flaming ability for your fists too, which increases damage. If you'd rather have dragon forms, then by all means drop the SF and finish off your MoMF levels. If you ditch SF and Monk altogether, pick up two levels of Ninja instead. It stills gives you Wis to AC, invisibility as a swift action, and gives you the necessary skills to get into Chameleon earlier, because that changeable floating feat for Assume Supernatural Ability combined with MoMF is just that good.
Lorimo the Disbeliever 11-21-05, 02:50 AM	Dwarf Monk (Passive Way) 2/ Paladin 2/ Survivalist (Fighter Variant) 2/ Exotic Weapon Master 1/ Shiba Protector 10/ Deepwarden 2/ Pious Templar 1 Shiba requires Human(Phoenix) Serenity -> worshipping Rao(does not exist in Rokugan) CONCLUSION: Doesn't work, sorry.
Xeraph 11-21-05, 11:11 AM	Pfft. Hater. "If it has a place in DND, it has a place in Eberron" = Legal.
catharz 11-21-05, 04:38 PM	Schmerdro, you might want to change the thread title. If you're asking for a shapechanger, ask for that, and if you want a wisdom-focused monk...well, here are a number of things to help: Serenity, from Dragon 306, has already been mentioned, as has Shiba Protector from OA. Intuitive Strike [BoED] is a vital feat for a Wis-monk. For a full build, I'd try something like Monk 2/Paladin 2 (if Serenity)/Psychic Warrior 1/Warmind 5/Psychic Weapon Master (gauntlets, or better Warforged with Battlefist) 10.
Schmerdro 11-22-05, 03:14 PM	The main reason why I like the Master of Many Formes is because I can focus on only one ability (Wisdom) and just forget about everything else... except maybe Intelligence. Anyway, thanks for all your help. It's always nice to have some classes (and builds, in this case) suggested instead of going through all your books and picking them out.
coreyzat 11-22-05, 04:25 PM	The only problem I see with the Druid5/MoMF 7/etc build is that you are limited to 12HD creature for wildshape. While that certainly gives some good options, why would you limit yourself that way?
Surreal 11-22-05, 05:32 PM	Because sometimes the abilities picked up by a non-wildshape class outweighs higher wildshape hd forms.