Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Amrien 01-17-06, 11:01 PM	Just signed up for a level 25 campaign, where "Anything goes" for character creation. Only WoTC official books, any and all are allowed. I'm going to be the melee/tank because almost everyone else is going wizard. I've decided I want to max out my strength. BAB will not be an issue with an immense strength and Supreme Cleave. Take a peak. +1 LA: Half Minotaur +12 Strength Large Size +2 LA: Half Dragon, Colorless +8 Strength +1 LA: Feral +4 Strength +1 LA: Mineral Warrior +2 Strength Other goodies +1 LA: Gheden +4 Strength I definetly want more templates, but I'm very much not used to playing with them, so I'm sure yall can site them. Give me their locations too please, I'm sure I'll be able to lay hands on even the most obscure of materials. Remember, The important thing is strength in this build. Anyway, here's my level progression plan. 6 LA to the race and template 6 Fighter 2 Frenzied Berzerker (only going for Supreme Cleave here) And at levels 15-20, 10 levels of Warhulk, compensating for a lot of the BAB loss with the fact Epic levels don't provide it. The rest is up in the air to do with it what you will. Right now, starting with my 18, I've got a none too shabby 68 without items. Help me out my min/maxing compadres. You know you want to help me make a Monster. Edit 1: Added Mineral Warrior, Feral, And Gheden. Thanks Surreal
Surreal 01-17-06, 11:10 PM	Never doubt the power of BAB. With power attack, you can usually get better returns than that offerred by the War Hulk +2 Str/level. In any case, save the levels of WarHulk until epic where the zero BAB doesn't matter since you follow epic rules for BAB progression then. For templates, slap on Feral (Savage Species) and Mineral Warrior (FR: Underdark) and if possible Gheden (Dragon 313). Another good one is Saint (Book of Exalted Deeds), with lots of nice goodies but no Str boost.
Talen Lee 01-17-06, 11:12 PM	Warhulk, yeah, is a fine addition. Plus there's also Feral (small LA), if Savage Feces is allowed.
Amrien 01-17-06, 11:22 PM	Added the new templates. Thanks for the recommendations so far. Gonna keep scouring for more suff.
PhoenixInferno 01-17-06, 11:34 PM	An Epic game and everyone else is a spellcaster? Hope you like twiddling your thumbs, because you're going to be doing a lot of that while your spellcasting buddies do all sorts of stuff like killing Terrasques with a blink of an eye.
Amrien 01-17-06, 11:36 PM	An Epic game and everyone else is a spellcaster? Hope you like twiddling your thumbs, because you're going to be doing a lot of that while your spellcasting buddies do all sorts of stuff like killing Terrasques with a blink of an eye. Well, the DM asked me not to play another spellcaster, so unless you've got a clever idea, I think I like being Mr. Pantssmashalot
Surreal 01-17-06, 11:39 PM	Ok waitaminnit... you want lots of strength and "anything goes"? Go here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=142565) and read the whole thing p.s. bring your calculator
PhoenixInferno 01-17-06, 11:53 PM	Why did your DM ask you to not play a spellcaster when everyone else is? Does he not like you or something? :) For starters, Frenzied Berserker gives a BIG boost to your Power Attack return, so invest in more levels of that. You've got LA of 6 - you stand about a snowball's chance on Mercury of surviving an epic caster's HD based spells. And there's no way you can buy it all off by level 25. I'd be more selective about which templates you assume - you want to be able to buy it all off by level 25 so you have 25 HD/class levels. LA buyback rules are found in Unearthed Arcana. I would only take War Hulk levels once you've hit Epic. Where are your Barbarian levels? You can't enter Frenzied Berserker without Rage. Your base will save should also be laughable, so I'd look at the Survivor (Savage Species). Great Cleave is WEAK - you should NEVER assume you can drop anything in a single hit. Even with your 68 STR, you still have 2 attacks at +37 before magic. You can only Power Attack up to your BAB, so assuming you hit with both attacks, you're losing out on like 48 damage/round - which is really small compared to what you can get with a Leap Attacking Frenzied Berserker that Power Attacks for 8:1. Savage Feces Typo, I hope? :)
lostone 01-18-06, 11:25 AM	Well if truly anything goes, Take more levels of Frenzied Berserker (it smashes things very efficiently when power attacking). Make sure you get wrathful healing on your weapon (Enemies and Allies, around p20 in a sidebar) so you can heal yourself when fighting (automatic when dealing damage). Then get the spells Sadism and Masochism as continuous spells on your weapon (or ring or whatever). Those spells are in BoVD. They will make it so that whenever you take or deal damage your attack bonus goes up. This means that you can pump more BAB into power attack and still hit just as accurately. In the end you'll have all your BAB in power attack and with the x4 modifier you get from FB that's an extra +80 damage per attack. You should be able to easilly deal out 300+ damage after a round or two of windup (not likely to get that windup time if everyone else is epic spellcasters, but if you fight on your own you will slaughter enemies). When dealing damage like that great cleave is very nice. :D
Khazra Reborn 01-18-06, 11:59 AM	The king of str bonuses is surely the combination of girralions blessing & fuse arms (both are in the spell compendium).13,000 gp for a +12 unamed bonus to str rocks! With the FBs 1>8 PA ratio you need +16str for every level you lose BaB...thats not going to happen! As such you want full BaB with str bonuses (and a max of 2LA so it's easy to buy off, i suggest feral half minotaur). A rough outline of what i suggest would be: feral half minotaur changeling barbarian6/fighter2/warshaper2/FB10/warhulk5 Your basic str is 18+16(race)+6(levels)+4(warshaper)+10(wa rhulk)=54str, full BaB With an epic +8 enhancement, a manual+4 & the fuse arms trick your looking at a respectable 78. If you want to do str and be a spell caster i suggest the mighty contender of kord: feral half minotaur half orc cleric15/mighty contender10 Persistant righteous might and divine power When you use your surge of power your str is: 18+18(race)+2(mighty contender)+6(levels)+37(surge)+8(RM)=89 With a manual+5 and the fuse arms trick (you already have an enhancement) your looking at 106 str.* *unfortuanetly surg of power is 1/day. Str will be 94 with feat of str almost all of the rest of the time (69/day). The major advantage of this over a FB is that you cast as a 20th level cleric meaning you wont be completely outdone by the group casters and you can advance as a cleric to increases casting into epic spells aswell as add to your feat of str (by level 30 you'll be adding 45 str with power surge!)
Random Sasquatch 01-18-06, 12:25 PM	Anything goes, huh? And you want high strength. It may take some digging, but there is an infinite loop Cancer Mage build that will give you strength enough to rend the world you're walking on in half. Now, if we could only figure out that tricky initiative thing. :confused: The Co board Yeti
lostone 01-18-06, 02:34 PM	It may take some digging, but there is an infinite loop Cancer Mage build that will give you strength enough to rend the world you're walking on in half. The build is pretty simple if you're talking the Festering Anger abuse. Class X/Cancer Mage 1, get Festering Anger disease. Begin game many years later after gaining permanent cumulative +2 strength every day. Drop dragons in 1 hit. Avoid "Cure Disease" spells like everyone else avoids the plague. But try getting that past your DM.
Anor 01-18-06, 02:54 PM	Play a straight level 25 druid and make some fun of the wizards. The flexibility and power of a well designed (feats, equipment, skills) druid starting at level 25 is not a small thing, I promise you. You can easily take on the groups melee monster position by using wildshape, or thundering the battlefield with very powerful offensive druid spells, or summoning elder elementals with nasty templates added to them etc etc. You wont be dissatisfied.
Khazra Reborn 01-19-06, 12:03 PM	On second thoughts, i agree with Anor. I'd personally make it druid16/warshaper4/druid17-21 Take the sub levels from champions of valour that let you retain hands whilst in wildshape. Wildshape into a legendary bear, animal growth, enhanced wildshape feat, natures avatar a manual +4 and an enhance +8. Thats 64 str which isn't bad. You can use a great club with brambles cast on it to make 5 attacks/round with fairly obscene bonuses (brambles>+10 damage, natures avatar>+10 attack/damage). And of course you also have epic spells. Edit>the behemoth gorilla is a better alround combat form then legendary bear, has higher dex, con & 2* the NA.
PhaedrusXY 01-19-06, 12:12 PM	A bunch of templates are a bad idea... and so is Warhulk, IMO. Here are some alternatives. Psywarrior/FrenziedBerzerker with 56 Str (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6252573) A mage-killing berzerker who can cast antimagic field and has 35 str inside it (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6150094&postcount=20) You could add one or two good low LA templates onto the last one, like Mineral Warrior and/or Feral. Something that gives him a non-magical flying ability would be required, also.
Warlock33 01-19-06, 01:29 PM	Always remember the elemental monolith in the complete arcane, you could summon those like little meatshields. That amuses me.