A music-focused bard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A music-focused bard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
xvthreetwoonevx
12-13-05, 11:47 PM I looked around the optimization library for such a build, but couldn't for the life of me find a bard build focused entirely around the Bardic Music ability. I was thinking something like Bard5/Stormsinger3/Dragonsong Lyrist4/Seeker of the song8, but i'm not sure if that's going to be an optimal use of the music ability. Should I dump the stormsinger levels for something else, as the Seeker refrains will give me a way to deal damage already, and if so, what? I would like to, if at all possible, keep the Dragonsong Lyrist in the build, at least 'till third level to get Song of Flight, but any suggestions would be appreciated. Basically I want to get the most out of my bardic music ability, right now I can replicate a lot of spell effects with it and have them even work in an antimagic field. I may switch out the stormsinger for more bard levels so I can hit inspire +2, then use Song of the Heart and a trumpet to get it to +4, and then words of creation to +8, while still being able to blast 10d6/round with refrains and give my allies great resistance. Advice on how to arrange classes, equipment, and any feats of note are appreciated, thanks!
X-Codes
12-14-05, 12:20 AM Words of Creation only doubles the base bonus from Music. A Bard 9 with Song of the Heart, a Trumpet, Inspirational Boost, and Words of Creation only gets a +7 bonus from Inspire Courage, not +10.

Second, damaging effects from Music are generally far overrated as Wizards and Sorcerers (and even many Divine casters) can create similar effects at much lower levels. For this reason, Seeker of the Song is a terrible PrC to take. Alternatively, however, Stormsinger and Sublime Chord both have songs that deal damage based on a skill check which is quite abusable with Nanobots and magic items.

Next, Dragonsong Lyrist is also a terrible class because it does not stack with Bard levels for Bardic Music. It creates a separate pool of music and does not work with other abilities that are good for Bardic Music such as the Warchanter's Combine Songs.

All said and done, you could do worse than a Bard 8/Stormsinger 2/Sublime Chord 2/Stormsinger +8. The Dragonsong feat is worthwile here as it's a good boost to your songs, and you could potentially double the effect of all your songs with Words of Creation still, taking 11d4 subdual damage to deal double your perform check with a Thunderstrike.
xvthreetwoonevx
12-14-05, 06:23 PM I do agree with you on the Seeker, I really only took it for Combine Songs and Dirge of Spelldeath, although I must say 10d6 cold+fatigue does look pretty solid, the amount of times you can do it. I was unsure if it was worth it to take six levels of the Seeker to get Dirge of Spelldeath, which I find a tremendously powerful ability, though looking at the sublime chord I think i'll go with that instead of the seeker.

However, I disagree with you about the lyrist. While it does create a separate pool and you can't use fancy abilities with it, a 3 level dip nets you some tremendously powerful abilities, and I may be able to talk to my DM about letting Extra Music apply to my Dragonsong instead. Song of Flight, as written, gives you 3 minutes of mass flight at 3rd level for a single standard action, it doesn't say it requires concentration, which I think is an extremely powerful ability. Though I don't beleive you can cast spells while it's active, the wording's a tad ambiguous so correct me if i'm wrong, you can still use your bardic music abilities, which is why I was looking to the Seeker for some damaging effects. And i'd only be losing two caster levels, and the other Dragonsongs aren't too shabby either. I'll probably take 3 levels of it and add it to your build, going Bard 5/stormsinger2/Dragonsong lyrist3/Sublime cord 2/stormsinger 3-10, and take Extra Music applying to the lyrist. I think the 3 level loss is worth it for the mass flight, and the ability to suggestion while in battle, both of which are extremely powerful abilities. However if i'm just making an atrocious mistake, improvements are welcome. And thanks for your help so far, X-Codes.
sCRuLooSe
12-14-05, 07:07 PM This is a music based build I have been playing.

Human
Bard 6
Hexblade or Paladin of Chaos 2 (I could not use the uneathed arcana for this one)
Virtuoso 2
Sublime Chord 2
Virtuoso 8

1 Able Learner, Jack of all Trades
3 Versatile Performer
6 Craft Wondrous Item
9 Obtain Familiar (Raven) - Alertness (For imbue with spell ability and skill aid)
12 Snowflake Snowdance
15 Extend Spell
18 Practiced Spellcaster

Bardic Music 17/day
Insp Cour 16th lvl +3
Fascinate 5-6 Targets
Countersong
Inspire Competence
Suggestion
Song of Power

Virtouso Perf 10/day
Persuasive Song
Sustaining Song
Jarring Song
Song of Fury
Mindbending Melody
Revealing Song
Slyver
12-15-05, 12:44 AM For a highly song oriented bard with great spellcasting I would do this:

Bard 9/virtuoso1/sublime chord 2/virtuoso 8

Feats:
Assuming human, alignment good

1 Lingering song, improved initiative
3 Craft woundrous item
6 Words of Creation
9 Song of the Heart

The rest are open. Metamagic feats with metamagic song are great. I also like subsonics for the flavor.

Slyver
fnord
12-15-05, 01:05 AM No likes Warchanter? Huh. If all you want to focus on is music, then Warchanter is a good PRC. It, like Seeker of the Song, gets combine songs, and in the right party the music is much better.
You'll do better overall with a Sublime Chord build, though, because spells are where the power is in D&D.
X-Codes
12-15-05, 02:05 AM No likes Warchanter? Huh. If all you want to focus on is music, then Warchanter is a good PRC. It, like Seeker of the Song, gets combine songs, and in the right party the music is much better.
You'll do better overall with a Sublime Chord build, though, because spells are where the power is in D&D.

Eh, Warchanter songs don't impress me. Some of them are good and all, but it's kinda hard to beat the plain ol' in-your-face-ness of +10 Inspire Courage when it comes to music, especially combined with stuff like Haste. If the party arcanist is a War Weaver then they can add their own buffs and just make it disgusting. (Enlarged Hasted Singing War Trolls anyone?)
Wizu
12-15-05, 06:52 AM On the contratory, in limited settings where you cant be everything, a buffer dwarven bard/fighter/warchanter makes for a much more devastating addition.

Like in Living Greyhawk. ^^

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
xvthreetwoonevx 12-13-05, 11:47 PM	I looked around the optimization library for such a build, but couldn't for the life of me find a bard build focused entirely around the Bardic Music ability. I was thinking something like Bard5/Stormsinger3/Dragonsong Lyrist4/Seeker of the song8, but i'm not sure if that's going to be an optimal use of the music ability. Should I dump the stormsinger levels for something else, as the Seeker refrains will give me a way to deal damage already, and if so, what? I would like to, if at all possible, keep the Dragonsong Lyrist in the build, at least 'till third level to get Song of Flight, but any suggestions would be appreciated. Basically I want to get the most out of my bardic music ability, right now I can replicate a lot of spell effects with it and have them even work in an antimagic field. I may switch out the stormsinger for more bard levels so I can hit inspire +2, then use Song of the Heart and a trumpet to get it to +4, and then words of creation to +8, while still being able to blast 10d6/round with refrains and give my allies great resistance. Advice on how to arrange classes, equipment, and any feats of note are appreciated, thanks!
X-Codes 12-14-05, 12:20 AM	Words of Creation only doubles the base bonus from Music. A Bard 9 with Song of the Heart, a Trumpet, Inspirational Boost, and Words of Creation only gets a +7 bonus from Inspire Courage, not +10. Second, damaging effects from Music are generally far overrated as Wizards and Sorcerers (and even many Divine casters) can create similar effects at much lower levels. For this reason, Seeker of the Song is a terrible PrC to take. Alternatively, however, Stormsinger and Sublime Chord both have songs that deal damage based on a skill check which is quite abusable with Nanobots and magic items. Next, Dragonsong Lyrist is also a terrible class because it does not stack with Bard levels for Bardic Music. It creates a separate pool of music and does not work with other abilities that are good for Bardic Music such as the Warchanter's Combine Songs. All said and done, you could do worse than a Bard 8/Stormsinger 2/Sublime Chord 2/Stormsinger +8. The Dragonsong feat is worthwile here as it's a good boost to your songs, and you could potentially double the effect of all your songs with Words of Creation still, taking 11d4 subdual damage to deal double your perform check with a Thunderstrike.
xvthreetwoonevx 12-14-05, 06:23 PM	I do agree with you on the Seeker, I really only took it for Combine Songs and Dirge of Spelldeath, although I must say 10d6 cold+fatigue does look pretty solid, the amount of times you can do it. I was unsure if it was worth it to take six levels of the Seeker to get Dirge of Spelldeath, which I find a tremendously powerful ability, though looking at the sublime chord I think i'll go with that instead of the seeker. However, I disagree with you about the lyrist. While it does create a separate pool and you can't use fancy abilities with it, a 3 level dip nets you some tremendously powerful abilities, and I may be able to talk to my DM about letting Extra Music apply to my Dragonsong instead. Song of Flight, as written, gives you 3 minutes of mass flight at 3rd level for a single standard action, it doesn't say it requires concentration, which I think is an extremely powerful ability. Though I don't beleive you can cast spells while it's active, the wording's a tad ambiguous so correct me if i'm wrong, you can still use your bardic music abilities, which is why I was looking to the Seeker for some damaging effects. And i'd only be losing two caster levels, and the other Dragonsongs aren't too shabby either. I'll probably take 3 levels of it and add it to your build, going Bard 5/stormsinger2/Dragonsong lyrist3/Sublime cord 2/stormsinger 3-10, and take Extra Music applying to the lyrist. I think the 3 level loss is worth it for the mass flight, and the ability to suggestion while in battle, both of which are extremely powerful abilities. However if i'm just making an atrocious mistake, improvements are welcome. And thanks for your help so far, X-Codes.
sCRuLooSe 12-14-05, 07:07 PM	This is a music based build I have been playing. Human Bard 6 Hexblade or Paladin of Chaos 2 (I could not use the uneathed arcana for this one) Virtuoso 2 Sublime Chord 2 Virtuoso 8 1 Able Learner, Jack of all Trades 3 Versatile Performer 6 Craft Wondrous Item 9 Obtain Familiar (Raven) - Alertness (For imbue with spell ability and skill aid) 12 Snowflake Snowdance 15 Extend Spell 18 Practiced Spellcaster Bardic Music 17/day Insp Cour 16th lvl +3 Fascinate 5-6 Targets Countersong Inspire Competence Suggestion Song of Power Virtouso Perf 10/day Persuasive Song Sustaining Song Jarring Song Song of Fury Mindbending Melody Revealing Song
Slyver 12-15-05, 12:44 AM	For a highly song oriented bard with great spellcasting I would do this: Bard 9/virtuoso1/sublime chord 2/virtuoso 8 Feats: Assuming human, alignment good 1 Lingering song, improved initiative 3 Craft woundrous item 6 Words of Creation 9 Song of the Heart The rest are open. Metamagic feats with metamagic song are great. I also like subsonics for the flavor. Slyver
fnord 12-15-05, 01:05 AM	No likes Warchanter? Huh. If all you want to focus on is music, then Warchanter is a good PRC. It, like Seeker of the Song, gets combine songs, and in the right party the music is much better. You'll do better overall with a Sublime Chord build, though, because spells are where the power is in D&D.
X-Codes 12-15-05, 02:05 AM	No likes Warchanter? Huh. If all you want to focus on is music, then Warchanter is a good PRC. It, like Seeker of the Song, gets combine songs, and in the right party the music is much better. You'll do better overall with a Sublime Chord build, though, because spells are where the power is in D&D. Eh, Warchanter songs don't impress me. Some of them are good and all, but it's kinda hard to beat the plain ol' in-your-face-ness of +10 Inspire Courage when it comes to music, especially combined with stuff like Haste. If the party arcanist is a War Weaver then they can add their own buffs and just make it disgusting. (Enlarged Hasted Singing War Trolls anyone?)
Wizu 12-15-05, 06:52 AM	On the contratory, in limited settings where you cant be everything, a buffer dwarven bard/fighter/warchanter makes for a much more devastating addition. Like in Living Greyhawk. ^^