Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LogicNinja 06-14-06, 08:07 PM	The basic premise is to combine the Chameleon with the Enlightened Fist, Sacred Fist--or both. Human 28-point-buy: STR 8 -> 10 (2) DEX 8 -> 16 (10) CON 8 ->12 (4) INT 8 -> 14 (6) WIS 8 ->14 (6) CHA 8 32-point-buy: STR 8 -> 10 DEX 8 -> 16 CON 8 -> 14 INT 8 -> 14 WIS 8-> 14 CHA 8 -> 10 Bare-bones setup: Human: Cleric 1: Trickery Domain, Second Domain (Fate for Uncanny Dodge, Liberation for granted power, Luck, Planning for Extend Spell...), Able Learner, Combat Reflexes Swashbuckler 1: Weapon Finesse (swash) Swash 2: Combat Casting IF you're going for Sacred Fist. Swash 3: Insightful Strike (swash) Monk 1: Imp. Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist Swash3/Cleric1/Monk 1 lets you enter Chameleon. Disguise and Bluff are class skills from the cleric's Trickery domain, Sense Motive is availible from Monk and Spellcraft is a cleric class skill. Now we take Chameleon. How much Chameleon? Well, that depends. We could take all of it and add Sacred Fist 4 to advance divine caster level, give full BAB, an AC bonus, a speed bonus, and Sacred Flames 1/day (pump Wisdom!); cap off with anything. Or we could take 7 levels, and get 8 of Sacred Fist for Sacred Flames 2/day and Blindsense. Now the Arcane Chameleon Fist: Or we could try to get Hold Ray from Enlightened Fist, which requires seven levels--that leaves 8 levels of Chameleon. How do we get into Enlightened Fist? It requires Arcane Caster Level 3rd. Chameleon itself doesn't qualify you for it; solution: Arcanist level + Practiced Spellcaster. Replace Cleric 1 with Bard 1 and get all the relevant class skills. Alternatively, if we want to keep our domains, replace Monk1--or don't get Insightful Strike, although with an Enlightened Fist, we'll have high INT and want Insightful Strike. Bard1/Swash3/Monk1 needs to become lawful, but a chameleon changing himself to gain access to monastic training? It fits. Take Chameleon through 8th. Carmendine Monk is a good choice of Chameleon floating feat. Then take Enlightened Fist through 7th. You can now use your Arcane Fist and Hold Ray abilities with the Chameleon's spell selection, and use Divine Power to overcome the Enlightened Fist's loss of BAB. And then there's the true Chameleon Fist, the "Changing Fist", who is both a Sacred and Enlightened fist--just because he can. Sacred Fist gives full BAB and Sacred Flames at 4th; Enlightened Fist gives the Arcane Fist ability at 3rd. That's seven levels, and that leaves Chameleon 8 with a 5-class-level entry. Chameleon 7 is the real sweet spot, though--we can afford 6 other classes. Perfect. Bard 1/Cleric1/Swashbuckler 3/Monk 1-> Chameleon 7->Arcane Fist 3 -> Sacred Fist 4. The Chameleon Fist. Use divine spells to buff in the morning; you can snag Divine Metamagic with your floating feat and Carmendine Monk normally or the other way around, and persist spells with Persistent Spell (Planning domain grants Extend spell). Then switch to Arcane and Combat focus, and put your Ability Boost +4 into INT. Swashbuckler's Insightful Strike, Carmendine Monk, and you can use arcane spells from *any* list. Or keep your Arcane/Divine focuses, and use the Divine one to channel Harm and other great divine spells into your attack routine, and use Divine Meta(Quicken) instead of (Persistent) to buff if Persistent is too cheesy for you or your DM. With practiced spellcaster, both arcane and divine caster levels are 20. So what does this have on other chameleons? Well, it uses most of the same tricks... but it's got a whole lot on various Fist builds, such as Arcane Fist with divine spells, access to any class' spell list (potentially with Hold Ray, if you skip the Sacred Fisting!), and you can be both an Enlightened and Sacred Fist without sucking, which no one else can say. Sacred Chameleon Fist BAB: 14 or 15, 17 with Partial BAB; if you're not using partial BAB... why aren't you using Partial BAB? Well, if you aren't, Divine Power. Enlightened Chameleon Fist BAB: Ooh, ouch... only 13 BAB, but that bumps up to 15 with partial BAB. However, Enlightened Fists usually suffer from BAB loss. The Enlightened Chameleon Fist has (Persistent? Quickened?) Divine Power. They don't. And the True Chameleon Fist? 14 BAB, but a solid 16 BAB with partial BAB. And Divine Might. And channeling a spell into a touch attack with Arcane Fist, with Sacred Flames on your fist. ...That's a whole lot of fisting, folks. Poor, poor enemies. Use a Grease spell if you're feeling merciful. What I'd like to work into the build: -a decent CHA, for Divine Might/Shield feats and/or Divine Metamagic. Don't see a way, though. -more low-level playability, although Cleric or Bard1/Swasbuckler 3 is tolerable. -some more advantages to be had from going into one of the Fists from Chameleon (or mixing Fist PrCs).
Surreal 06-15-06, 02:40 AM	... I could have sworn PrC's didn't advance Chameleon casting... :confused: or are you simply using enlightened/sacred first for their abilities?
LogicNinja 06-15-06, 02:49 AM	I could be horribly wrong, due to errata or some missed text somewhere, but: PrCs don't usually advance Chameleon casting because you can't qualify for them with Chameleon, which Chameleon says explicitly. Sacred Fist requires 1st level divine spells (cleric 1); Enlightened Fist requires Arcane caster level 3rd, not 2nd level spells--Bard 1 with Practiced Spellcaster has that at 3rd level (or later, if you take Practiced Spellcaster later). I see no reason why you couldn't then use the PrCs to advance the arcane or divine side of your Chameleon casting. Something that says "+1 level of spellcasting class" as opposed to specifying arcane or divine would advance both ends. Thus, the Changing Fista! The most effective, I think, is the Arcane Chameleon Fist, simply for their ability to 1) Hold Ray and Arcane Fist with any spell out there up to sixth level, and 2) use Divine Power regularly to up their BAB; BAB is normally a problem for Enlightened Fists. I *don't* know what happens to a Chameleon 8/Enlightened Fist 7's casting. You stop getting new spells/day, but your caster level increases, I think--so you have CL 16 from Chameleon +5 from Enlightened Fist for a caster level of 22 with your arcane spells (take Practiced Spellcaster for the divine side). The actual "Changing Fist" that mixes Sacred and Enlightened Fist doesn't really gain that much from Sacred Fist beyond BAB and advancing the Chameleon's divine spell progression/caster level. Edit: And, you know, all this gives me an idea for a Duskblade 13/chameleon 7, if it's possible to qualify using class-skill-granting feats and cross-class skills by then... Full-Attack spell channel with any arcane or divine spell up to sixth level sounds pretty nice, doesn't it? Edi2t: Damn, Chameleon 7 only gets 5th level spells. Still Heal is a 5th level spell (Adept list!), and this gives (late-game) access to, say, Wraithstrike without dubious (and repeatedly CustServ-refuted) usage of Extra Spell to snag a spell from outside your spell list. I might just have to draw up a Duskmeleon.
Surreal 06-15-06, 03:23 AM	I honestly have no idea how casting PrC's mesh with Chameleon. I think I saw some argument for it a while ago (in the Chameleon compilation thread?), but I can't recall the outcome. I'd almost be inclined to say that PrCs can't advance Chameleon casting at all, but I'm sitting on the fence with this one. Technically, do Chameleons even gain casting as a "class feature"? or is it just an aptitude focus? (I hate semantics sometimes). Something that says "+1 level of spellcasting class" as opposed to specifying arcane or divine would advance both ends. Even if casting PrC's could advance Chameleon casting, I think this is a bit of a stretch. I would say pick one side... but once again, I have no real backing for this statement either. How would practiced spellcaster work with Chameleon then? If at all? Argh. That said, I like the idea of the Changing Fist. I'm too sleepy to make any coherent build right now, but I was thinking of something with Warlock dipped in, using EF to gain a few more invocations (maybe a least invocation) while still getting your other casting via Chameleon.
LogicNinja 06-15-06, 03:47 AM	I would say that Chameleons gain spellcasting as a class feature when they have the arcane or divine aptitude focus on. When they don't, it's not there... and the spellcaster level increases don't apply. When they switch back to them, it's back, and the spellcaster level increases apply again. Even if casting is "just" an aptitude focus... the aptitude focus is a spell-granting class feature, just like "spellcasting" is. (Edit: and a class that gives "+1 level of spellcasting" advance your spellcasting whether it's arcane or divine; if it specifies arcane or divine, well, it doesn't help you when you have the other kind.) Mixing Warlock in for some invocations could help a bit, but I already have enough BAB-hurting dips, and the Changing Fist *is* supposed to stand up in melee--part of the point is that you can, say, cast and deliver a Shivering Touch as part of your first punch on your full attack, and use your lowest-AB attack to smack yourself with a Divinely Quickened Heal after they hit you with that nasty greatsword crit. Also, I don't think highly of the Warlock. You know, I just realized that Arcane Fist relies on Stunning Fist attempts; Extra an Extra Stunning Fist feat may be in order, although Enlightened Fist gives you more attempts.
Surreal 06-15-06, 11:55 AM	I've always been a fan of warlocks for some reason. I was thinking of replacing bard with warlock, and in an EF heavy build that should be enough for a single lesser invocation, and you can probably use that floating chameleon feat to cherry pick a least invocation. Mind you, I was thinking about this working under the assumption that casting PrCs didn't advance Chameleon casting, thus needed somewhere to throw the casting advancement. Does practiced spellcaster increase the warlock's eldritch blast damage?