A pair of 11th level characters- Suggestions Welcome [Archive] - Wizards Community

A pair of 11th level characters- Suggestions Welcome [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kilo24
09-23-05, 02:17 AM After the influence of an Artisan cohort's item making with Exceptional Artisan x4 and Legendary Artisan x4, my DM has decreed that the players should make new 11th level characters.

The interesting thing is that each of us make 2 characters instead of one. So, I'm looking for suggestions on what to make.

Here are the rules:
-Forgotten Realms only. (No Eberron without a doubt, but maybe others could be allowed, particularly Greyhawk.)
-No third party material.
-Preferably, more of tactician characters than raw stats. After a Lancer/Dragoon type character using Leap Attack/Power Attack, the DM went mad throwing hit points on his monsters to make them survive more than one round. So, anything with easily quotable broken stats (insane damage, very high ability scores, you get the idea) will probably be disallowed.

Because of the last rule, I was thinking more spellcasting characters. We already have a cleric (combined with some rather light death rules,) paladin, two rogues, chameleon, monk, and an arcane archer/ranger. My idea for the classes are prestiged wizard and straight druid, but if there's another setup that has what I want, I'll be interested.

Ability scores will be fairly lenient rolling. 4d6 drop the lowest, an automatic 18, reroll 12s or lower.

Character 1: Wizard 5/ Incantatrix 6 (PGtF)
Incantatrix for various metamagic goodies. Sacred Exorcist originally thrown in there, but dropped due to rules errata.

Race: Star Elf
Unless you can find a race that gives something comparable to +2 int and the racial sub level of generalist wizardry (Unearthed Arcana, almost +50% spells in the spellbook and an extra highest level spell per day), I think I'll stay with star elf.

Feats:
Wizard 1: Spellcasting Prodigy
Wizard 3: Iron Will
Wizard 5 Bonus: Widen Spell
Incantatrix 1/ Wizard 5: Faerie Mysteries Initiate
Incantatrix 1/ Wizard 5 Bonus Feat: Extend Spell
Incantatrix 4/ Wizard 5: Persistant Spell
Incantatrix 4/ Wizard 5 Bonus Feat: Chain Spell

Widen Spell picked because I envision him using a good deal of area based spells (Evard's Black Tentacles, Solid Fog, Wall of Force, Silent Image.) Education and Iron Will needed for PrC reqs. I'm not sure about taking flaws, I'd like to but I'll need to check first.

I plan to max out Incantatrix and then either get 4 levels in Sacred Exorcist or get a few levels in other PrCs (1 level in Mindbender would be good, particularly with wildshaping druid companion, maybe the rest of the in Fatespinner for the odd bonuses.)

Equipment- At least standard for 11th level characters, maybe 20,000 or so GP more.
Nightsticks required. Circlet of Intelligence +4 or +6? Should I get a scroll or two of Shapechange? Ring of Evasion too expensive at this level to be worth it? What would be great ways to boost Spellcraft to better use the Incantatrix abilities?

Other Ideas
1 Level of Ghost Template from Savage Progressions
d12 HD (insane hp if I couple it with Faerie Mysteries Initiate) incorporeality, flight, and undead immunities in exchange for a level of spellcasting progression, either the loss of a feat from wizard 5 or the delay in PrC advancement, the problems of being an undead (particularly when the overpowered cleric starts turning), and bad consequences when I die (permanent death or loss of the template probably.) Awesome bonuses, nasty weaknesses. Other thoughts?

Familiar Link (3rd level wizard substitution from Races of Destiny)
Probably a good choice. Double the bonuses from the familiar to me in exchange for the familiar not being able to use my touch spells. I'll probably get a weasel as a familiar unless there are better options.

Heighten Spell or Easy Metamagic
Are these worth it to get instead of/earlier than my other feats? Getting more metamagic feats will increase my ability to aid the rest of the party and my other character.

Character 2: Druid 11
Not many ways to keep on improving the nicest druidic aspects with PrCs. Druid because of full spellcasting + summoning + wildshaping for a load of great attack options.

Race: Anthropomorphic Bat
+6 wisdom and no LA beat most of the other races out there.

Feats:
Druid 1:Spellcasting Prodigy
Druid 3:Greenbound Summoning
Druid 6: Natural Spell
Druid 9:Rashemi Elemental Summoning
Not too sure on the feats. Look under Other Ideas for my thoughts. Note that I cannot take Ashbound as it is Eberron.

Draconic Wildshape on 12th most likely. Other feats variable.

Equipment
Bead of Karma. Perhaps a Torc of Animal Speech. Other than that, I'm open.

Other Ideas
Feats: Exalted Wild Shape, Extend Spell, Frozen Wild Shape, Sudden Maximize/ Sudden Empower, Augment Summoning + Spell Focus: Conjuration
The limited feats mean that, well, they're rather limited. This is the main questionability of this druid. Anyway, the feats I have and why:

Greenbound Summoning
Free cast of Wall of Thorns, some very nice bonuses, plant immunities on every animal I summon. Great feat, and I will probably keep it.

Spellcasting Prodigy
A few extra spells a day. Not particularly critical, but can be useful. At this level, it's pretty much competing with Extend spell for 2nd place at the 1st and 3rd level feats.

Natural Spell
Not worth giving up for any other feat, period.

Rashemi Elemental Summoning
Nasty summoned air/earth elementals with ow inspiring cones of cold. Nice, but limited to only when I want to summon elementals.

Other Feats
Exalted Wildshape
Blink dog lets me use dimension door once per round at the cost of one wildshape, my current wildshape, and a standard action. Will win any race. However, I have to be exalted.

Extend Spell
Of debatable importance, particularly with an incantatrix PC ready to throw the metamagic on.

Frozen Wild Shape
12 headed cryohydra at 15th level. I can't think of any particularly awesome forms earlier than that that Frozen Wild Shape enables.

Sudden Maximize and/or Sudden Empower
Quill Blast and Call Lightning Storm: Huge penalties to attacks, saves, and checks to enemies within 20 ft or the ability to call down 50 + 2d10 damage bolts outside for about one combat. One of the major problems is that another metamagic feat is required for these.

Augment Summoning + Spell Focus: Conjuration
Augment Summoning is nice to have, but it requires a nigh worthless feat; something I'd rather not take.

Anyway, I'm also looking for a few potential tactics between the duo. A few of my thoughts:
Evard's Black Tentacles + Quill Blast: Give them a nice high penalty to grapple checks in particular. Cast Evard's Tentacles. Sit there and let the rest of the party pick the enemies off. Laugh.

Widened Solid Fog (maybe multiple) + Embrace the Wild (Porpoise) (Blindsight 120ft) + Any ranged magical spell attacks from druid: Moving at 5 feet per round and being pretty much blind leaves it being a duckshoot with the druid's blindsight. Throw an odd wall of force in there to keep it interesting. Rary's Telepathic Bond to make the duckshoot fun for the whole (ranged spellcasting) party.

Cooperative Metamagic/Metamagic Effect + Any Nice Persistantable Spell: As long as his Spellcraft is sufficient, the wizard can grant a free Persistant Spell to any spellcaster. Could be nice.

Feel free to mock the ideas utterly, suggest a few more, or just shrug and read on.
jstorrie
09-23-05, 02:33 AM Unfortunately, you can only apply Divine Metamagic to divine spells. So the Sacred Exorcist trick is out.

A good Faerun class that I occasionally champion is Spellguard of Silverymoon. There's a bit of a roleplaying thing there, but you can easily work something up (a knight errant type, or a roaming special agent, or whatever.) A Wiz/Spellguard/Incantatrix can drop some pretty interesting buffs on other party members - basically all of the really powerful personal-range spells, persistantly, on your tanks/sneaks/archers. This doesn't look like a huge benefit on paper, but it shoots them light years ahead of the competition, tactically speaking. Just remember that you can only share buffs that have a defensive benefit to them (boosting AC, saves, or hit points, I think? Check PGtF.) Divine Disciple in some buff-heavy domains, like Mysticism, takes this even further.
Kilo24
09-23-05, 03:07 AM Unfortunately, you can only apply Divine Metamagic to divine spells. So the Sacred Exorcist trick is out.
Argh. You're right. Bloody errata.

I guess it could remain a more viable alternative if you took Alternative Spell Source from one of the Dragon magazines, but I seem to recall that it requires both arcane and divine spellcasting. This could be an interesting idea for a 20th level build, but I don't think it's worth the spellcasting loss right now.

So then, Spellguard of Silverymoon will net two metamagic feats, Selective Spell (which I think will be better than the personal range defensive sharing with solid fog, wall of force, or other tactical spells), +1 caster level, and the ability you mentioned. Throwing Tenser's on a fighting ally could have some very nice consequences.

Alternative 5 level classes then could be archmage (high reqs so I'm rather leery), initiate of the seventh veil (again, high reqs), a level of mindbender and/or four levels of wild mage/fatespinner.) Not sure about Divine Disciple, I'll take a look at it a bit later.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kilo24 09-23-05, 02:17 AM	After the influence of an Artisan cohort's item making with Exceptional Artisan x4 and Legendary Artisan x4, my DM has decreed that the players should make new 11th level characters. The interesting thing is that each of us make 2 characters instead of one. So, I'm looking for suggestions on what to make. Here are the rules: -Forgotten Realms only. (No Eberron without a doubt, but maybe others could be allowed, particularly Greyhawk.) -No third party material. -Preferably, more of tactician characters than raw stats. After a Lancer/Dragoon type character using Leap Attack/Power Attack, the DM went mad throwing hit points on his monsters to make them survive more than one round. So, anything with easily quotable broken stats (insane damage, very high ability scores, you get the idea) will probably be disallowed. Because of the last rule, I was thinking more spellcasting characters. We already have a cleric (combined with some rather light death rules,) paladin, two rogues, chameleon, monk, and an arcane archer/ranger. My idea for the classes are prestiged wizard and straight druid, but if there's another setup that has what I want, I'll be interested. Ability scores will be fairly lenient rolling. 4d6 drop the lowest, an automatic 18, reroll 12s or lower. Character 1: Wizard 5/ Incantatrix 6 (PGtF) Incantatrix for various metamagic goodies. Sacred Exorcist originally thrown in there, but dropped due to rules errata. Race: Star Elf Unless you can find a race that gives something comparable to +2 int and the racial sub level of generalist wizardry (Unearthed Arcana, almost +50% spells in the spellbook and an extra highest level spell per day), I think I'll stay with star elf. Feats: Wizard 1: Spellcasting Prodigy Wizard 3: Iron Will Wizard 5 Bonus: Widen Spell Incantatrix 1/ Wizard 5: Faerie Mysteries Initiate Incantatrix 1/ Wizard 5 Bonus Feat: Extend Spell Incantatrix 4/ Wizard 5: Persistant Spell Incantatrix 4/ Wizard 5 Bonus Feat: Chain Spell Widen Spell picked because I envision him using a good deal of area based spells (Evard's Black Tentacles, Solid Fog, Wall of Force, Silent Image.) Education and Iron Will needed for PrC reqs. I'm not sure about taking flaws, I'd like to but I'll need to check first. I plan to max out Incantatrix and then either get 4 levels in Sacred Exorcist or get a few levels in other PrCs (1 level in Mindbender would be good, particularly with wildshaping druid companion, maybe the rest of the in Fatespinner for the odd bonuses.) Equipment- At least standard for 11th level characters, maybe 20,000 or so GP more. Nightsticks required. Circlet of Intelligence +4 or +6? Should I get a scroll or two of Shapechange? Ring of Evasion too expensive at this level to be worth it? What would be great ways to boost Spellcraft to better use the Incantatrix abilities? Other Ideas 1 Level of Ghost Template from Savage Progressions d12 HD (insane hp if I couple it with Faerie Mysteries Initiate) incorporeality, flight, and undead immunities in exchange for a level of spellcasting progression, either the loss of a feat from wizard 5 or the delay in PrC advancement, the problems of being an undead (particularly when the overpowered cleric starts turning), and bad consequences when I die (permanent death or loss of the template probably.) Awesome bonuses, nasty weaknesses. Other thoughts? Familiar Link (3rd level wizard substitution from Races of Destiny) Probably a good choice. Double the bonuses from the familiar to me in exchange for the familiar not being able to use my touch spells. I'll probably get a weasel as a familiar unless there are better options. Heighten Spell or Easy Metamagic Are these worth it to get instead of/earlier than my other feats? Getting more metamagic feats will increase my ability to aid the rest of the party and my other character. Character 2: Druid 11 Not many ways to keep on improving the nicest druidic aspects with PrCs. Druid because of full spellcasting + summoning + wildshaping for a load of great attack options. Race: Anthropomorphic Bat +6 wisdom and no LA beat most of the other races out there. Feats: Druid 1:Spellcasting Prodigy Druid 3:Greenbound Summoning Druid 6: Natural Spell Druid 9:Rashemi Elemental Summoning Not too sure on the feats. Look under Other Ideas for my thoughts. Note that I cannot take Ashbound as it is Eberron. Draconic Wildshape on 12th most likely. Other feats variable. Equipment Bead of Karma. Perhaps a Torc of Animal Speech. Other than that, I'm open. Other Ideas Feats: Exalted Wild Shape, Extend Spell, Frozen Wild Shape, Sudden Maximize/ Sudden Empower, Augment Summoning + Spell Focus: Conjuration The limited feats mean that, well, they're rather limited. This is the main questionability of this druid. Anyway, the feats I have and why: Greenbound Summoning Free cast of Wall of Thorns, some very nice bonuses, plant immunities on every animal I summon. Great feat, and I will probably keep it. Spellcasting Prodigy A few extra spells a day. Not particularly critical, but can be useful. At this level, it's pretty much competing with Extend spell for 2nd place at the 1st and 3rd level feats. Natural Spell Not worth giving up for any other feat, period. Rashemi Elemental Summoning Nasty summoned air/earth elementals with ow inspiring cones of cold. Nice, but limited to only when I want to summon elementals. Other Feats Exalted Wildshape Blink dog lets me use dimension door once per round at the cost of one wildshape, my current wildshape, and a standard action. Will win any race. However, I have to be exalted. Extend Spell Of debatable importance, particularly with an incantatrix PC ready to throw the metamagic on. Frozen Wild Shape 12 headed cryohydra at 15th level. I can't think of any particularly awesome forms earlier than that that Frozen Wild Shape enables. Sudden Maximize and/or Sudden Empower Quill Blast and Call Lightning Storm: Huge penalties to attacks, saves, and checks to enemies within 20 ft or the ability to call down 50 + 2d10 damage bolts outside for about one combat. One of the major problems is that another metamagic feat is required for these. Augment Summoning + Spell Focus: Conjuration Augment Summoning is nice to have, but it requires a nigh worthless feat; something I'd rather not take. Anyway, I'm also looking for a few potential tactics between the duo. A few of my thoughts: Evard's Black Tentacles + Quill Blast: Give them a nice high penalty to grapple checks in particular. Cast Evard's Tentacles. Sit there and let the rest of the party pick the enemies off. Laugh. Widened Solid Fog (maybe multiple) + Embrace the Wild (Porpoise) (Blindsight 120ft) + Any ranged magical spell attacks from druid: Moving at 5 feet per round and being pretty much blind leaves it being a duckshoot with the druid's blindsight. Throw an odd wall of force in there to keep it interesting. Rary's Telepathic Bond to make the duckshoot fun for the whole (ranged spellcasting) party. Cooperative Metamagic/Metamagic Effect + Any Nice Persistantable Spell: As long as his Spellcraft is sufficient, the wizard can grant a free Persistant Spell to any spellcaster. Could be nice. Feel free to mock the ideas utterly, suggest a few more, or just shrug and read on.
jstorrie 09-23-05, 02:33 AM	Unfortunately, you can only apply Divine Metamagic to divine spells. So the Sacred Exorcist trick is out. A good Faerun class that I occasionally champion is Spellguard of Silverymoon. There's a bit of a roleplaying thing there, but you can easily work something up (a knight errant type, or a roaming special agent, or whatever.) A Wiz/Spellguard/Incantatrix can drop some pretty interesting buffs on other party members - basically all of the really powerful personal-range spells, persistantly, on your tanks/sneaks/archers. This doesn't look like a huge benefit on paper, but it shoots them light years ahead of the competition, tactically speaking. Just remember that you can only share buffs that have a defensive benefit to them (boosting AC, saves, or hit points, I think? Check PGtF.) Divine Disciple in some buff-heavy domains, like Mysticism, takes this even further.
Kilo24 09-23-05, 03:07 AM	Unfortunately, you can only apply Divine Metamagic to divine spells. So the Sacred Exorcist trick is out. Argh. You're right. Bloody errata. I guess it could remain a more viable alternative if you took Alternative Spell Source from one of the Dragon magazines, but I seem to recall that it requires both arcane and divine spellcasting. This could be an interesting idea for a 20th level build, but I don't think it's worth the spellcasting loss right now. So then, Spellguard of Silverymoon will net two metamagic feats, Selective Spell (which I think will be better than the personal range defensive sharing with solid fog, wall of force, or other tactical spells), +1 caster level, and the ability you mentioned. Throwing Tenser's on a fighting ally could have some very nice consequences. Alternative 5 level classes then could be archmage (high reqs so I'm rather leery), initiate of the seventh veil (again, high reqs), a level of mindbender and/or four levels of wild mage/fatespinner.) Not sure about Divine Disciple, I'll take a look at it a bit later.