A pair of questions I need answered. [Archive] - Wizards Community

A pair of questions I need answered. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Caros
02-20-06, 05:29 AM Alright, I've been offline for WAY too long now and I've got a pair of questions that I need answered before I can get back to work on my builds:

First and foremost. Pun-Pun's Nigh infinate clones. Last I check this was accomplished as a result of the spell fission but I can't find any reference to it on the official post, someone want to refresh me on how it works?

Second and more importantly (for me at least): There are a variety of spells and abilities that give +1 to all attacks, skill checks, ability checks and caster level, (Some examples being Sadism from BoVD and the cosmic descryer ability.) Now the caster level bonus for all of these abilites applies to any caster level, thus a mystic theurge would get it for both his cleric and his wizard or what have you.

The question then, is due to the magic/psionic transparency rules designed to make the system seem less "Tacked on" can it be assumed that the increase in caster level granted by such abilites can also be assumed as an increase in manifester level?
deathwishjoe
02-20-06, 05:54 AM First and foremost. Pun-Pun's Nigh infinate clones. Last I check this was accomplished as a result of the spell fission but I can't find any reference to it on the official post, someone want to refresh me on how it works?

I suppose this works hed probably use the salient divine ability to make the effect perminant but yeah.

The question then, is due to the magic/psionic transparency rules designed to make the system seem less "Tacked on" can it be assumed that the increase in caster level granted by such abilites can also be assumed as an increase in manifester level?

transperancy rules dont extend this far. so no.
Caros
02-20-06, 06:49 AM I'm looking for a bit more of an in depth response to the first question simply because you can't fission twice, so even if made permanent I'm trying to figure out how the NI clones come into existance.

As for the transperancy, I'd agree with you excepting the fact that the +1 caster level is universal. In the cases of most of these abilities I'm sure the designers intent was that it would give spellcasters a bonus they actually care about (After all +1 to skiil/ability checks and attack rolls mean nothing to a pure spellcaster.) If that was indeed the intent then the +1 manifester level should be assumed even if not written. (After all it would be a huge pain to include +1 caster level/Manifester Level in every ability in books that don't even reference psionics)
LordofProcrastination
02-20-06, 08:32 AM Pun-Pun can also gain clones by use of Body outside Body from Complete Arcane.

I don't believe that transparency covers manifester level/caster level precisely, but it doesn't matter. By use of Mental Pinnacle from the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Pun-Pun can convert his nigh-infinite caster level into a nigh-infinite manifester level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Caros 02-20-06, 05:29 AM	Alright, I've been offline for WAY too long now and I've got a pair of questions that I need answered before I can get back to work on my builds: First and foremost. Pun-Pun's Nigh infinate clones. Last I check this was accomplished as a result of the spell fission but I can't find any reference to it on the official post, someone want to refresh me on how it works? Second and more importantly (for me at least): There are a variety of spells and abilities that give +1 to all attacks, skill checks, ability checks and caster level, (Some examples being Sadism from BoVD and the cosmic descryer ability.) Now the caster level bonus for all of these abilites applies to any caster level, thus a mystic theurge would get it for both his cleric and his wizard or what have you. The question then, is due to the magic/psionic transparency rules designed to make the system seem less "Tacked on" can it be assumed that the increase in caster level granted by such abilites can also be assumed as an increase in manifester level?
deathwishjoe 02-20-06, 05:54 AM	First and foremost. Pun-Pun's Nigh infinate clones. Last I check this was accomplished as a result of the spell fission but I can't find any reference to it on the official post, someone want to refresh me on how it works? I suppose this works hed probably use the salient divine ability to make the effect perminant but yeah. The question then, is due to the magic/psionic transparency rules designed to make the system seem less "Tacked on" can it be assumed that the increase in caster level granted by such abilites can also be assumed as an increase in manifester level? transperancy rules dont extend this far. so no.
Caros 02-20-06, 06:49 AM	I'm looking for a bit more of an in depth response to the first question simply because you can't fission twice, so even if made permanent I'm trying to figure out how the NI clones come into existance. As for the transperancy, I'd agree with you excepting the fact that the +1 caster level is universal. In the cases of most of these abilities I'm sure the designers intent was that it would give spellcasters a bonus they actually care about (After all +1 to skiil/ability checks and attack rolls mean nothing to a pure spellcaster.) If that was indeed the intent then the +1 manifester level should be assumed even if not written. (After all it would be a huge pain to include +1 caster level/Manifester Level in every ability in books that don't even reference psionics)
LordofProcrastination 02-20-06, 08:32 AM	Pun-Pun can also gain clones by use of Body outside Body from Complete Arcane. I don't believe that transparency covers manifester level/caster level precisely, but it doesn't matter. By use of Mental Pinnacle from the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Pun-Pun can convert his nigh-infinite caster level into a nigh-infinite manifester level.