Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Wild Rover 08-12-05, 05:28 PM	aloha, i've been thinking lately about the tank role in a party, it's a fun role to play if i do say so myself, you don't have to think as much you just sorta smash face and move on, and i was thinking about a tank with a little more flavor many of you will probably look at the title and immediately think psywar and warmind, both of which are fine classes and will almost assuredly be included in my final build but i really wanna focus on one class, the psychic weapon master from the mind's eye http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d it's pretty much like a psychic version of the kensai with slightly different class abilities. how to optimise this class teh best is leaving me at a loss though, the feat requirement for it is exceptionally heavy so how would i make room for any of the other fun feats i was thinking of using psywar/warmind/pwm, and probably a level of fighter thrown in to help ease the feat requirements for pwm but i dunno also unsure as to what race to be so any optimized suggestions would be good for that, the campaign i'm playing this in probably won't have any of the ebberon books so kalashtar's are out unfortunately. i should end up with 10 feats throughout the whole build, 6 of which have to go to the requirements of pwm =/ and the other 4 i'm not sure, probably combat reflexes and whirlwind to benefit from the added bonuses pwm gives, but that's just the obvious thought at first glance i don't know for sure how powerful they are also another issue are skills, psywar gets crap for skills, all i can really think of is having 5 levels of it just so i can get the 8 ranks in knowledge psionics for warmind. the 2 ranks in knowledge history can be taken care of with the first level, spend 4 points first level to get the two ranks in it. like i say any help is greatly appreciated, feel free to throw out any suggestions just please keep in mind i really wanna focus on the psionic weapon master for this build
catharz 08-12-05, 06:00 PM	If you want to keep your feat slots opwn as a PWN...*ahem,* PWM: Fighter 2/Psychic warrior 2/Monk 1 or Ftr 1/PW 2/Mnk 2, followed by Warmind 6. 7th and 9th are the optimum 'drop levels' for PWM, unless you're gong to the epic levels. So, Ftr 2/PW 2/Mnk 1/WM 6/PWM 9. The combination of Sweeping Strike and Whirlwind as a standard action is awesome. But is, unfortunately, limited to the highest levels. If you want a higher BAB, or an extra low-level power, Fighter 2/PW 3/WM 6/PWM 9 should work. Another option for those worried more about MAD would be Ranger 1/Fighter 2/Psion 2/Illithid slayer 4-8/PWM 7-10.
Shandrakor 08-13-05, 02:17 AM	If you want to keep your feat slots opwn as a PWN...*ahem,* PWM: Fighter 2/Psychic warrior 2/Monk 1 or Ftr 1/PW 2/Mnk 2, followed by Warmind 6. 7th and 9th are the optimum 'drop levels' for PWM, unless you're gong to the epic levels. If you want a higher BAB, or an extra low-level power, Fighter 2/PW 3/WM 6/PWM 9 should work. Another option for those worried more about MAD would be Ranger 1/Fighter 2/Psion 2/Illithid slayer 4-8/PWM 7-10. I'm a huge fan of anything that gets Evasion, and I don't mean in a ring. I'm also a huge fan of the Warmind's Sweeping Strike. What point-buy are we talking? Rolled stats? In a group I just play with the DM decided to nerf stats & books allowed; thus I'm much more sensitive to MAD than I once was. I'd probably go Fighter 2/PW 3/WM 6/PWM 9, though Ranger 1/Fighter 2/Psion 2/Illithid slayer 4-8/PWM 7-10 is of course more powerful at the higher levels. I like Ranger 1/Figher 2/PW 2/WM 6/Slayer 9; though that's because I allow the WM PrC progression to continue per the PW. YMMV. In any case, anything involving a Psion is more powerful at the higher levels (assuming a decent ML progression), & hurt proportionately more by the loss of a ML.
The Wild Rover 08-13-05, 02:24 AM	all those builds sound really good in theory except for one problem, you only have two or 3 levels of psychic warrior so how is it you're getting the necessary 8 ranks of knowledge psionics for the warmind? aside from that i really liked that build that was fighter/psywar/warmind/pwm having a high a BAB is always important for a tank damage dealer, plus there's all sorts of utility combat powers the psychic warrior has to choose from. although i think the build will need to be modified a bit to fit the skill requirements for warmind. i suppose the easiest way to do that and still stay true to the build would be psywar5/warmind6/pwm9 eh? feats should look something like this 1 dodge, mobility 2 weapon focus 3 psionic dodge 5 power attack 6 psionic weapon 9? 12? 15? 18? feat suggestions are more than welcome!!!!! that would give me +18 BAB and all the feat requirements covered by 6th level. that's the most optimized i can think of oh and real quick question, the pwm get's improved crit and says if you already have it then you just get +2 to your threat range, what if you don't have improved crit but your bonded weapon has keen? it's the same principle right?
Shandrakor 08-13-05, 04:03 AM	all those builds sound really good in theory except for one problem, you only have two or 3 levels of psychic warrior so how is it you're getting the necessary 8 ranks of knowledge psionics for the warmind? Given that PsyWars get 2+Int modifier Skillpoints/level, your PW has to have an INT of 14, or 12 + Nymph's Kiss to get 4 skillpoints/level. I'd love to only have one PW level, but I've yet to have a player come to me with his character sheet with a 22 INT that wasn't a primary caster (though there was that one Death-Attack assassin...). Anyway, you dump all the skillpoints in Knowledge (Psionics). Remember, this is 3.5, and you can take ANY skill cross-class; it just costs 2 skillpoints to buy. Thus, you spend 2 skillpoints on it at first level; 4if it's a class skill or you have the feats I'm about to mention. Able Learner (RoD) or Education (FRCS?) make it a class skill at all times. Personally, I like to work in Ranger whenever I can -- I like to think of it as the Warmind base class (2 good saves, full BAB, 6+ Int skillpoints, nifty class features...). So I'd go Ranger 1/Fighter 2/PsyWar 2/WM 6/PWM 9. If you take AL or Education, you can put 4 skillpoints into Knowledge (Psionics) at first level, and finding another 4 skillpoints is easy. Thus, (If HUMAN), requires INT 12, or 10 & Nymph's Kiss Ranger 1: Able Learner, Dodge, 2 Skillpoints into K(Psionics) Fighter 1: Mobility Fighter 2: Weapon Focus, Power Attack PsyWar 1: Psionic Dodge, 3 Skillpoints into K(Psionics) PsyWar 2: Psionic Weapon, 3 Skillpoints into K(Psionics) Warmind 1: GPW Personally, I love Sweeping Strike, and reckon any build that incorporates it should include Cleave & Great Cleave -- it gives you that many more chances to utilize your SS. However, flavor-wise, GPW makes more sense...and since you're so close, I'd go ahead and pick up Spring Attack as well. Probably get all of them; the choice depends on how you plan to play the PC. If you plan to awaken the bonded weapon to a +5 bonus, (have your DM tell you if it's pure enhancement or total modifiers; you're hoping he'll rule total modifiers) then Deep Impact in conjunction with Spring Attack, GPW & Psychic Meditation will make you an every-other-round terror of the battlefield. I believe it refers to total modifiers, but your DM might rule otherwise. If he decides it's pure enhancement, then expending 2 foci/strike becomes less optimal, as you would rather have a +1 weapon with an effective +9 of special abilities (Metalline, Sure Striking, others from this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=288540) thread. You'll use Metaphysical Weapon on it, or if you're in a party that's actually helpful, you'll get the cleric/druid to GMW your bonded weapon. oh and real quick question, the pwm get's improved crit and says if you already have it then you just get +2 to your threat range, what if you don't have improved crit but your bonded weapon has keen? it's the same principle right? Nope -- conceptually the same, RAW quite different. Check the wording; you gain Improved Crit. If you already have it, THEN you get the +2 modifier. If you weapon is Keen, then you gain Improved Crit, which does not stack & means you wasted perfectly good XP on a weapon that could have been otherwise enhanced. Small opti note: it's not usually a good idea to take too many levels of a class that makes you sack XP for class features. While the PWM is the spiritual descendent of the Weapon Master PrC of yore, the Kensai from CW gets a lot more love because of it's lack of this sentence: The weapon must be a standard crystal melee weapon (without any magic or psionic enhancements). The Kensai has no such statement, making it a GREAT dip PrC (it does have some silly prerequisites though). Thus, I recommend you take the Item Familiar feat from page 170 of Unearthed Arcana. That'll net you an extra 10% XP (though you can lose it if you lose the item; some favor making it a weapon for the extra HP; you might consider making it a backup weapon or whatever the last item on the 'items affected by failed saves' chart. I think it's Rings or some such...)to counterbalance that which you sacked for your bonded weapon. If your DM will allow, I might make my bonded weapon my item familiar...though if he loves to have his bad guys SUNDER things, a Ring Item Familiar (within a magically-hardened Obdurium Gauntlet of Rust that you never remove) is your best friend.
The Wild Rover 08-13-05, 11:28 AM	Given that PsyWars get 2+Int modifier Skillpoints/level, your PW has to have an INT of 14, or 12 + Nymph's Kiss to get 4 skillpoints/level. I'd love to only have one PW level, but I've yet to have a player come to me with his character sheet with a 22 INT that wasn't a primary caster (though there was that one Death-Attack assassin...). Anyway, you dump all the skillpoints in Knowledge (Psionics). Remember, this is 3.5, and you can take ANY skill cross-class; it just costs 2 skillpoints to buy. Thus, you spend 2 skillpoints on it at first level; 4if it's a class skill or you have the feats I'm about to mention. Able Learner (RoD) or Education (FRCS?) make it a class skill at all times. Personally, I like to work in Ranger whenever I can -- I like to think of it as the Warmind base class (2 good saves, full BAB, 6+ Int skillpoints, nifty class features...). So I'd go Ranger 1/Fighter 2/PsyWar 2/WM 6/PWM 9. If you take AL or Education, you can put 4 skillpoints into Knowledge (Psionics) at first level, and finding another 4 skillpoints is easy. Thus, (If HUMAN), requires INT 12, or 10 & Nymph's Kiss Ranger 1: Able Learner, Dodge, 2 Skillpoints into K(Psionics) Fighter 1: Mobility Fighter 2: Weapon Focus, Power Attack PsyWar 1: Psionic Dodge, 3 Skillpoints into K(Psionics) PsyWar 2: Psionic Weapon, 3 Skillpoints into K(Psionics) Warmind 1: GPW first thing i'd like to adress about the above build, it's actually one feat behind because i believe you'd need wild talent in order for a human to become a psychic warrior wouldn't you? as i understood it becoming a psionic class meant you needed to have a powerpoint reserve of at least 1, if it's not the case then please lemme know because that would change things around drastically heh and for the skills problem actually what i was reffering too is unless you spend a feat slot for able learner then the max ranks for the knowledge psionics build is going to restrict you from achieving it before 5th level anything, and if you don't want to waste a feat slot for able learner then the only way to get 8 ranks in it by 8th level and still have some ranks in other skills would be to go psywar5 wouldn't it?
Shandrakor 08-13-05, 01:39 PM	first thing i'd like to adress about the above build, it's actually one feat behind because i believe you'd need wild talent in order for a human to become a psychic warrior wouldn't you? as i understood it becoming a psionic class meant you needed to have a powerpoint reserve of at least 1, if it's not the case then please lemme know because that would change things around drastically heh You never need anything to become a base class; at level 1 you have no class features. The most frequent use of Wild Talent/Hidden Talent that I've seen is for folks who're already taking Education or Able Learner for some other reason, thereby allowing them to meet the 1PP reserve requirement of a number of PrCs. and for the skills problem actually what i was reffering too is unless you spend a feat slot for able learner then the max ranks for the knowledge psionics build is going to restrict you from achieving it before 5th level anything, and if you don't want to waste a feat slot for able learner then the only way to get 8 ranks in it by 8th level and still have some ranks in other skills would be to go psywar5 wouldn't it? Class Skills The psychic warrior’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis* (Wis), Climb (Str), Concentration* (Con), Craft (Int), Jump (Str), Knowledge (psionics)* (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), and Swim (Str). It's a class skill for PsyWars. =D So you're restricted to 1/2 ranks until you get a level of PsyWar, when it becomes a class skill. ANY CLASS can take any skill in 3.5; there's none of that forbidden skill garbage. So dump a fw in at 1st level, then put in more once it becomes a class skill. And class skills are restricted to HD + 3.
carnivore 08-13-05, 01:50 PM	personally i dont like the PWM PrC very much but might try this: Ranger 1/ Fighter 2/ Psion 2/ Slayer 5/ Psychic Weapon Master 10 gives: BAB +19 11th lvl Manifester 5th lvl powers but i would rather do this: Ranger 1/ Fighter 2/ Psion 2/ Slayer 10/ Warmind 5 same as before and...... continuous mind blank and Nondetection much better skills if you must use both warmind and PWM....try a variation on what catharz said: Ranger 1/Fighter 1/ PW 2/ Monk 1/ WarMind 6/ PWM 9 more skills....Wild empathy....etc... :D
batstek 08-13-05, 02:18 PM	I'd drop PWM all together. I kinda like Fighter 1 / Psion 4 / Warmind 10 / Iron Mind 5. Take Egoist and get all sorts of buffs, and DR 5/- from the two classes.
Dragon3 08-13-05, 11:31 PM	Why not sanctified mind together with slayer? Full bab all the way baby and only lose 2 manifesting levels.
Shandrakor 08-14-05, 12:31 AM	I'd drop PWM all together. I'd not a big fan of PWM myself; if the OP hadn't specified it I never would have included it in the build -- the 1/2 ML progression is just too steep.
The Wild Rover 08-14-05, 01:27 AM	well the reason i want to play it is because i know it's not a great prc but flavor-wise i love it, just because it's not that good of a class doesn't mean there's not a way to optimize it, all it means is optimized for the pwm isn't as powerful as maybe some other classes optimized. i just think the psychic version of a kensai but without the oath of service drawback is pretty sweet, granted it's a bit different than the kensai in terms of other class abilities, like how pwm doesn't get that sweet power surge ability. but if your bonded weapon is a falchion or some other 18-20 weapon, and you already had imp. crit then you end up with a 13-20 crit threat range, and with some of teh weapon enhancements out there that rely on crits to activate that can be pretty useful i'm not saying it's solely meant to be a high crit range build, i'm just sayin how it's different yet still similar to the kensai and that's why i love it
batstek 08-14-05, 04:41 AM	i just think the psychic version of a kensai but without the oath of service drawback is pretty sweet, granted it's a bit different than the kensai in terms of other class abilities, like how pwm doesn't get that sweet power surge ability. but if your bonded weapon is a falchion or some other 18-20 weapon, and you already had imp. crit then you end up with a 13-20 crit threat range, and with some of teh weapon enhancements out there that rely on crits to activate that can be pretty useful Granted, those PWM abilities can be pretty sweet.. But, flavor is for how you play the character, not how the build looks. A Fighter 2 / Psion 8 / IS 10 will end up with 16 BAB and 17th caster level. With Item Familiar or Craft Psionic Arms and Armor (or hell, both..), you'll end up with something much stronger than a PWM's bonded weapon. The additional buffs that a 17th level Psion could manifest would be much more useful in a combat situation (even while meleeing) than a PWM of similar level. Not that I don't understand wanting to play a class despite it not being the most powerful (Hell, I play psions..), but keep your options open.
Shandrakor 08-15-05, 03:41 AM	i'm not saying it's solely meant to be a high crit range build, i'm just sayin how it's different yet still similar to the kensai and that's why i love it I certainly understand where you're coming from; I'm currently playing an Erudite 1/Scion of Startooth 4/Meditant 6; we just leveled tonight. =) That's a sacking a ML for the sake of flavor; I'd have been far more powerful form a purely opti perspective to play a wiz. Not that I don't understand wanting to play a class despite it not being the most powerful (Hell, I play psions..), but keep your options open. Truth. I could have been a Wiz/Incantatrix/Archmage with full CL progression... ::sniff:: Granted, those PWM abilities can be pretty sweet.. But, flavor is for how you play the character, not how the build looks. A Fighter 2 / Psion 8 / IS 10 will end up with 16 BAB and 17th caster level. With Item Familiar or Craft Psionic Arms and Armor (or hell, both..), you'll end up with something much stronger than a PWM's bonded weapon. The additional buffs that a 17th level Psion could manifest would be much more useful in a combat situation (even while meleeing) than a PWM of similar level. Huh.... ::Thinks and scratches head:: Wow...I'd never thought of that. Heck, I even posted on Warlord Griffin's WoL thread. You're spot-on with that -- better in almost every way then any of the suggested PWM builds. To pump it a bit further, consider modding it to Ranger 1/Fighter 1/ Psion 8/IS 10. Take Item Familiar, Metaphysical Weapon, Craft Psionic Arms & Armor, Ancestral Relic, & Leadership, with a cohort who can cast GMW. Now not only are you a stronger manifester with 9th level powers who has 4 attacks/round, but you are also far more true to the concept; a psionic PC who devotes himself utterly to a single weapon.
The Wild Rover 08-17-05, 01:28 AM	i'd like to first take this time to thank all who posted, glad you all put down any ideas you had, even the builds that didn't involve the pwm were still very powerful and i could definitly see where you were coming from on why it would be a better decision in almost every respect to go with them and forget the pwm, but i guess i'm just stubborn like that when i have my eye on one class i really wanna work around that class heh, but thank you all for your posts so far they've been a real help i believe after carefully going over all my books i think i'm going to go with the build that i had originally contemplated before i had even posted on this board and surely enough someoen actually posted it on here as well and that is the fighter2/pw3/wm6/pwm9 it'll sufficiently lack in the skill department but i'm willing to accept that and leave the more skillful tasks to the rest of the party, i'll pull my own weight in combat. on that subject now that i have the initial build down does anyone have any suggestions as to what feats i should look into? (this can be during or after working my way through the 6 feat requirment for pwm, yikes!) i'm not entirely sure what style of combat i'd like my guy to be, if he should just be a mindless collossus smash big deal type guy or what sort of tactics i should employ, this in turn will affect the feats i decide to take so anyone with any suggestions as always are more than welcome to post their ideas
batstek 08-17-05, 04:12 AM	Assuming Human.. Note: I suggest focusing on a single 2H melee weapon in order to not have to worry about an offhand weapon that isn't affected by the PWM weapon. ftr1-Dodge, Mobility, Power Attack ftr2-Weapon Focus pw1-Psionic Weapon, Psionic Dodge pw2-Improved Sunder wm1-Improved Bullrush wm4-Leap Attack pwm1-Cleave pwm4-Combat Brute pwm7-Shock Trooper You'll be able to do the Leap Attack > Sundering Cleave > Bullrush cheese against every opponent, and there's pretty much nothing they can do about it. Too bad you couldn't get Chain of Overwhelming Force in there, that would sync up nicely with Psionic Damage (and maybe Improved Crit Multiplier, would that damage stack?) that PWM gets.
The Wild Rover 08-18-05, 10:02 PM	anyone else? the reason i'm dragging this topic along so much is so i don't have to waste space by creating individual threads for each of my questions, so i hope you guys don't mind the rehashing of this thread so often how about some other feat/battle tactics ideas, i was hoping to get the improved crit feat so i could get the additional +2 to the threat range, and for the record i will be using a falchion (2 handed 18-20 x2 crit) what about weapon enhancements, i know there was a thread out there that was dedicated to teh best weapon enhancements maybe someone could post the link or even just some comments of their own? thanks all again for all the help so far
Shandrakor 08-18-05, 10:17 PM	Weapons Enhancements http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=288540
PhaedrusXY 08-18-05, 10:29 PM	I know monk was mentioned earlier, and passed over by the original poster, but I think it is worth mentioning again, mainly because it grants you access to one feat: the Sun School tactical feat. This combined with the Warmind's sweeping strike ability sounds like it could be alot of fun to me. I have a couple of builds in this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6158716&postcount=14) based around this combo. I'd take at least one level of monk (probably 2) for flurry of blows, Wis to AC when unarmored, +2 to all saves, and a feat. The second level will get you Evasion and Combat Reflexes (which you mentioned wanting, anyway). Catharz suggested a couple of good beginnings for such a build in his post, so I won't repeat them. Also, there is a weapon in one of the newer books called a Jovar that I think has the following stats/abilities: exotic 2-handed w/2d6 damage, 18-20/x2 crit, and make automatic trip attempts against people you hit, or something crazy like that. Snow Savant was talking about it in a thread I think, but it is possible I'm confused and am mixing the abilties of two weapons together. Hopefully someone will clarify. :confused:
Shandrakor 08-19-05, 01:54 AM	The Jovar's from the Planar Handbook, and whilst the stats are right, I can't find anything about a free trip attempt. That said, if there is a weapon that lets you make free trip attemps, please do post it, hmm?
PhaedrusXY 08-19-05, 10:40 AM	The Jovar's from the Planar Handbook, and whilst the stats are right, I can't find anything about a free trip attempt. That said, if there is a weapon that lets you make free trip attemps, please do post it, hmm?Hmm... maybe that ability was coming from something else, like the Knockdown feat. What the heck does a Jovar look like, anyway? I haven't even peeked in the Planar Handbook in a store. :P The image of a psiwarrior appearing out of nowhere and knocking down a bunch of adjacent enemies with one great sweeping strike makes me happy, though. Even better if he's wielding something freaky looking. :D
The Wild Rover 08-19-05, 12:39 PM	thanks for the tip on the jovar, that thing is falchion 2.0 heh, it doesn't look that weird, pretty much just like a big sword that's pretty heavy on the end. although it is exotic and none of my classes have exotic weapon proficiency so there's another feat i'd have to take, but the bump from 2d4 to 2d6, is it worth it? it's a pretty hefty jump. 4,3,5 so i guess if being human is legal and i'm able to go into psychic warrior without taking wild talent then i'll end up with 12 free feat slots from my build, half of those will go into the pwm requirements, which are Dodge Mobility Power Attack Psionic Dodge Psionic Weapon Weapon Focus so that leaves 6 feat slots left open i was thinking, the ?'s are feats i'm really not sure about, of course none of these i'm all too sure about but i know they're ones i could see being useful and never really stop being useful imp. crit cleave psionic meditation? elusive target?(the free trip attempt and other control over the battlefield seems pretty tempting) ewp?? (if i decide to go for the jovar, still debatable) err... ok so i don't know the feats for fighters too well but that's why i keep posting, by the way the builds so far have been really interesting i have to say, that imp sunder leapattack one was pretty cool but my dm likes his monsters with the natural weapons and i'm not sure you can sunder those can you? i also considered taking able learner for a bit but it just doesn't seem worth it
Shandrakor 08-19-05, 05:09 PM	Hmm... maybe that ability was coming from something else, like the Knockdown feat. What the heck does a Jovar look like, anyway? I haven't even peeked in the Planar Handbook in a store. :P The image of a psiwarrior appearing out of nowhere and knocking down a bunch of adjacent enemies with one great sweeping strike makes me happy, though. Even better if he's wielding something freaky looking. :D Probably was the Knockdown feat...anyway, I disagree with the Wild Rover on this one. The blade is 2/3 of the weapon; hilt & pommel the other third. It looks so much cooler than a Greatsword or even a Great Falchion. Starts off like a traditional spearhead, then narrows down, is quite thin for aways, then broadens again as it approaches the crosspiece (which is almost a double V, pointed ends removed). It's a bit freaky-looking, and is certainly exotic. A lot of stuff in the PlHB has really nifty illustrations. A lot of non-prereq feat choice depends on how you view the character, and what you envision his party role to be. If it's one big hit/round or every other round, then GPW, Battle Jump (UE), a Valorous Vaulting weapon (UE & A&EG (Halberd of Vaulting)) will be your bread & butter, getting you 4x normal damage on a charge, which, assuming you can fall from 5 feet above your opponent, Spring Attack will qualify as (Leap Attack can be nifty here too..). If you're planning on being the main tank...which, it just dawned on me, is the title of this thread... hmm..... Any of the Tactical feats are usually a good idea, especially the top tier of Sun School, Shock Trooper, Combat Brute, & Elusive Target. Others find use in specific builds. So you'll want Elusive Target... The rest are based off of DM-knowledge. Does yours throw one or two really big, tough, and scary critters at you? Or does he send mobs of smaller ones? In the latter case, Cleave and Great Cleave, when combined with Sweeping Strike, are truly amazing. In the former...well, IMO, PsyWars were born for that one big hit each round, hence the existance of GPW & Deep Impact. If you're the only tank you have to sacrifice that flavor. If you fight a lot of oozes, undead, & constructs Imp. Crit. may not be a good idea. If, however, you fight humanoids & other crittable critters, Imp. Crit. could save the day. It all depends on what your DM likes to throw at you -- and you know him better than we do.
The Wild Rover 08-19-05, 06:41 PM	shandrakor, you couldn't be more right about depending on what my dm throws at us, i guess really the best way to decide what feats and style of fighter to make is to play through in the campaign and gather what sort of baddies the dm throws at us, i'll be perfectly honest he really mixes things up sometimes it's a few big baddies, sometimes its a mob, so i guess i'll probably be looking for an all purpose damage dealer. thanks to everyone who helped with this thread and giving me so much information, i feel like i can safely make a pretty decent character now that will be able to pull his weight in the party
Dragon3 08-19-05, 06:49 PM	Take twin power and use it on hustle. Level 2 psychic warrior power so 3+6 is 9 pp. 2 move actions when you want it. Help you in melee no? Get the feat to help you refocus fast and you can refocus with a hustle action and land an attack too or move too. :)
PhaedrusXY 08-19-05, 07:09 PM	I was toying around with this stuff for a bit, and here is what I'd recommend. I'm not sure about the last feat; there might be better choices. You're never going to have enough power points to really augment much, and Overchannel is something that you might be better off taking as early as possible. All considered, I'd still rather play the Warmind/Elocater build I posted. :D Ftr1/Monk2/PW2/Warmind6/PWM9 BAB +18, Base Saves: F16, R14, W8 1 Monk1 Psionic Weapon, Dodge, [IUS, Stunning Fist, FoB, AC bonus] 2 Monk2 Combat Reflexes, [Evasion] 3 PW1 EWP: Jovar, Weapon Focus: Jovar 4 PW2 Psionic Dodge 5 Ftr1 Power Attack 6 War1 Mobility 9 War4 Elusive Target 11 War6 12 PWM1 Sun School 15 PWM4 Improved Crit: Jovar 18 PWM7 Overchannel? 20 PWM9
Neb Rybel 08-19-05, 09:49 PM	Here is the thing about the Psychic Weapon Master. It requires 6 feats to get into, and then you REALLY want to have Improved Critical and Whirlwind Attack before you get those class features. Psychic Falchion Master would be devastating. Human 1 PsW 1: Power Attack, Psionic Weapon, Dodge 2 PsW 2: Psionic Dodge 3 PsW 3: Mobility 4 PsW 4: 5 PsW 5: Weapon Focus (Falchion) 6 PsW 6: Combat Reflexes 7 PsW 7: 8 PsW 7/PWM 1: Bonded Weapon, Psionic Damage 9 PsW 7/PWM 2: Increased Multiplier 1/day, Improved Critical (Falchion, 15-20) 10 PsW 7/PWM 3: Psionic Weapon Focus (Falchion) 11 PsW 7/PWM 4: Increased Multiplier 2/day 12 PsW 7/PWM 5: Combat Reflexes (Dex + Wis extra), Spring Attack 13 PsW 7/PWM 6: Increased Multiplier 3/day 14 PsW 7/PWM 7: Improved Critical (Falchion, 13-20) 15 PsW 8/PWM 7: Combat Expertise, Whirlwind Attack 16 PsW 8/PWM 8: Improved Multiplier 4/day 17 PsW 8/PWM 9: Whirlwind Attack (Standard Action) 18 PsW 8/PWM 10: Improved Multiplier 5/day, Greater Psionic Weapon 19 PsW 8/PWM 10/Ftr 1: Bonus Feat 20 PsW 8/PWM 10/Ftr 2: Bonus Feat The Crit value of a weapon is the range times the amount of extra damage. Falchion: 13-20 threat range with 5 x3 multipliers per day. That is a value of 16, normal value 8. Scythe: 17-20 threat range with 5 x5 multipliers per day. That is a value of 16, 12 normal. Maybe Scythe is better? 13-20 is a nice range, much bigger and you run the risk of a threat value not actually hitting in the first place (only a 20 is an auto hit).
PhaedrusXY 08-19-05, 10:41 PM	Get Bless Weapon added to your weapon in some fashion (Oil, permanent enchantment, etc), and with the 13-20, over half the attacks that actually hit will be crits (against evil critters that is). :P I didn't include Whirlwind Attack in the build I made because 1) I don't think it's actually that useful, even as a standard action. and 2) because it requires several feats that you don't need otherwise.
Neb Rybel 08-19-05, 10:56 PM	I don't know, the ability to move in (possibly tumbling) and then whirlwind everyone (possibly critting all them of them). It is too bad that they removed Tumble from the Psychic Warrior skill list. Else Tumbling in and Whirlwinding everyone (for either Psionic Damage or a critical)...
Shandrakor 08-19-05, 11:26 PM	shandrakor, you couldn't be more right about depending on what my dm throws at us, i guess really the best way to decide what feats and style of fighter to make is to play through in the campaign and gather what sort of baddies the dm throws at us, i'll be perfectly honest he really mixes things up sometimes it's a few big baddies, sometimes its a mob, so i guess i'll probably be looking for an all purpose damage dealer. Generally speaking, if there's one or two baddies, you're probably going to overwhelm him through sheer number of actions, primarily depending on your party manifesters to SoD him to death. So let's focus on the 'mob' and 'average numbers of average baddies' scenarios, hmm? I didn't include Whirlwind Attack in the build I made because 1) I don't think it's actually that useful, even as a standard action. and 2) because it requires several feats that you don't need otherwise. The ONLY acceptable WWA use is if your DM is willing to allow GPW & Deep Impact to apply to each & every attack. In almost every other case, you're better off attacking in the standard manner, PARTICULARLY if you have Sweeping Strike.
Neb Rybel 08-19-05, 11:51 PM	The ONLY acceptable WWA use is if your DM is willing to allow GPW & Deep Impact to apply to each & every attack. In almost every other case, you're better off attacking in the standard manner, PARTICULARLY if you have Sweeping Strike.Well, you can't use both Greater Psionic Weapon and Deep Impact at once because you can't expend your Focus for each one.
PhaedrusXY 08-19-05, 11:54 PM	Well, you can't use both Greater Psionic Weapon and Deep Impact at once because you can't expend your Focus for each one.You could with the right psicrystal feats, but I don't think it's worth the expenditure of even more feats.
Shandrakor 08-20-05, 04:58 PM	You could with the right psicrystal feats, but I don't think it's worth the expenditure of even more feats. I wouldn't do it either; Sweeping Strike is among the top 10 class features available...top 5 for Psionics-only.
The Wild Rover 08-21-05, 12:28 PM	so far i think the build is going to look something like this (keep in mind the campaign hasn't started, i'm just doing what i always do and try to completely map out where i want my character to go, if during the campaign i find one feat particularly useful in whatever setting the dm decides on then i will make changes accordingly) human: fighter2/psywar3/warmind6/pwm9 fighter1:power attack, dodge, cleave fighter 2: ewp:jovar psywar1: weaponfocus:jovar, psionic weapon psywar2: psionic meditation warmind1: mobility warmind4: psionic dodge pwm1: elusive target pwm4: imp. crit pwm7: great cleave the order for these just doesn't seem right, i'll probably switch a few of them around when i'm actually playing to suit my needs best i should also end up with a +9 weapon, as for special abilities i was thinking enfeebling, consumptive burst, wounding is what i have so far, that's a total of +6 so if i stopped there it'd be a +3 enfeebling, wounding, consumptive burst jovar but i think i could do better, just not sure how. i liked the idea of doing con damage as a good way to add extra damage, if you think aobut it ever two points of con down is a loss of hp equal to the number of hd they have right? if i made a 12th level character lose two points of con then he'd suffer not only the normal damage but an additional 12 damage. enfeebling is amazing because it's 1d6 str damage on every hit no save, but spell resistance applies. consumptive burst was in there because i was looking at soulbreaker (i plan on critting alot) and realized for the same enhancement price i get that and an extra 1d6 negative energy damage when i want to activate that part of it. i've gone through the weapon enhancement thread with a fine toothed comb and i gotta say i dun really know for sure what enhancements would be best for my character. by the way wrathful healing is out, otherwise i would have put that in there, but i can always use the psywar power that does the exact same thing.