A question about Lycanthrope Templates [Archive] - Wizards Community

A question about Lycanthrope Templates [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Elvish Presley
01-28-05, 04:37 AM I am thinking about adding the Lycanthrope Template to my character to be. But something in the Monster Manual puzzles me.

When reading about the Werebear example in the MM, we're dealing with a lvl1 Human who adds 6 HD due to the 6d8+30 hp of the Werebear. The challenge rating is 5, and the level adjustment is +3.

But when creating a Lycanthrope, the MM states that:

"Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +2 (afflicted) or +3 (natural). In addition, a lycanthrope's character level is increased by the number of racial Hit Dice the base animal has."

What does this mean, really? Does it mean A: That if I add the Lycanthrope Template Werebear to a lvl 1 Human, I am efficiently lvl 4 (if natural)?

Or B: That if I add the Lycanthrope Template Werebear to a lvl 1 Human, I am efficiently lvl 10 (if natural)?

Or C: I've totally missed the point somewhere?
Tarlog
01-28-05, 04:51 AM It does mean "B"
10 effective character level:
1 for 1 Human HD (character lvl)
6 for 6 Monstrouus HD from lycantrope
3 for Level adjustment
MustafaHazaraKhan
01-28-05, 04:52 AM You add animal levels to your character, a number of levels equal to the Hit Dice of the animal you become.

So an afflicted human werebear (brown) progression would look like this:

1: Level Adjust
2: Level Adjust
3: Level Adjust
4: Animal 1
5: Animal 2
6: Animal 3
7: Animal 4
8: Animal 5
9: Animal 6
10: Character Class 1

If you had one level in a class then you'd be a effective character level 10th but only actually a 7th level character (with 6 of your levels as animal levels).
khaalis
01-28-05, 04:54 AM Edit - wow you guys are fast.... Here is some further detail.

I think I can aswer this from the SRD.

-----SRD/Monster-----
Starting Level of a Monster PC: Monsters suitable for play have a level adjustment given in their statistics. Add a monster’s level adjustment to its Hit Dice and class levels to get the creature’s effective character level, or ECL. Effectively, monsters with a level adjustment become multiclass character when they take class levels. A creature’s “monster class” is always a favored class, and the creature never takes XP penalties for having it.

Level Adjustment and Effective Character Level: To determine the effective character level (ECL) of a monster character, add its level adjustment to its racial Hit Dice and character class levels.

Use ECL instead of character level to determine how many experience points a monster character needs to reach its next level. Also use ECL to determine starting wealth for a monster character.

-----SRD/Lycanthrope-----
Hit Dice and Hit Points: Same as the base creature plus those of the base animal. To calculate total hit points, apply Constitution modifiers according to the score the lycanthrope has in each form.

Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +2 (afflicted) or +3 (natural). In addition, a lycanthrope’s character level is increased by the number of racial Hit Dice the base animal has.
-----End SRD-----

So in your example of a 1st level human werebear, you would have the following (use fighter as a class example).

1st level Afflicted Human/Werebear Fighter:
HD: 7 (1d10 Fighter + 6d8+30 Werebear)
LA: +2
Thus ECL = 9th level

1st level Natural Human/Werebear Fighter:
HD: 7 (1d10 Fighter + 6d8+30 Werebear)
LA: +3
Thus ECL = 10th level

Hope that helps clarify.
Elvish Presley
01-28-05, 05:19 AM Thank you all, it cleared up a lot.....sadly enough ;)

Bye, bye, Werebear Template - Hello insight of rules :)
oak
01-29-05, 03:52 AM Your question is already answered, but check out the following article for gratuitous information:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031114a

There are a bunch of other examples of template/monster classes within the Savage Progressions area of the wotc site - which are useful if you want to start at first level and work into a template. It can be tough to survive in those low levels (racial abilities are rarely a substitute for class levels in terms of survivability at low levels).

Cheers,

- Oak
kyril
01-30-05, 10:33 AM In the 3.5 monster manual, i dont see it saying anywhere about adding hit die to the ECL addition, its just +2 and +3. Now if you go back to the 3.0 forgotten realms faerune lycanthrope section it says add the hit die of hte monster to the ECL as well. If i'm not mistaken the part in 3.5, the only section thats says to add the hit die to a score is to determine the monsters challenge rating, it no way says anything about adding it to the characters class level. The only ECL is mentions is +3 for nat and +2 for afflicted.
khaalis
01-30-05, 11:45 AM In the 3.5 monster manual, i dont see it saying anywhere about adding hit die to the ECL addition, its just +2 and +3. Now if you go back to the 3.0 forgotten realms faerune lycanthrope section it says add the hit die of hte monster to the ECL as well. If i'm not mistaken the part in 3.5, the only section thats says to add the hit die to a score is to determine the monsters challenge rating, it no way says anything about adding it to the characters class level. The only ECL is mentions is +3 for nat and +2 for afflicted.

Setting asside the quotes I already listed from the 3.5 SRD, here are the necessary passages from the 3.5 Monster Manual.

p.178, 1st column, 3rd paragraph under "Level Adjustment" from the "Creating a Lycanthrope" text.
"Same as the base creature +2 (afflicted) or +3 (natural). In addition, a lycanthrope's character level is increased by the number of racial Hit Dice the base animal has."

p.7, 2nd column, under "Level Adjustment"
"This line is included in the entries of creatures suitable for use as player characters or as cohorts [(...)]. Add this number to the creature's total Hit Dice, including class level, to get the creature's effective character level (ECL). ..."

p.308, 1st column, under "Effective Character Level (ECL)"
"This number represents a creature's overall power relative to that of a character from the Player's Handbook. A creature with an ECL of 10 is roughly equivalent to a 10th level character. A creature's ECL is the sum of its Hit Dice (including class levels) and level adjustment. For instance, a minotaur has 6HD and a +2 level adjustment. It is the equivalent of an 8th level character."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Elvish Presley 01-28-05, 04:37 AM	I am thinking about adding the Lycanthrope Template to my character to be. But something in the Monster Manual puzzles me. When reading about the Werebear example in the MM, we're dealing with a lvl1 Human who adds 6 HD due to the 6d8+30 hp of the Werebear. The challenge rating is 5, and the level adjustment is +3. But when creating a Lycanthrope, the MM states that: "Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +2 (afflicted) or +3 (natural). In addition, a lycanthrope's character level is increased by the number of racial Hit Dice the base animal has." What does this mean, really? Does it mean A: That if I add the Lycanthrope Template Werebear to a lvl 1 Human, I am efficiently lvl 4 (if natural)? Or B: That if I add the Lycanthrope Template Werebear to a lvl 1 Human, I am efficiently lvl 10 (if natural)? Or C: I've totally missed the point somewhere?
Tarlog 01-28-05, 04:51 AM	It does mean "B" 10 effective character level: 1 for 1 Human HD (character lvl) 6 for 6 Monstrouus HD from lycantrope 3 for Level adjustment
MustafaHazaraKhan 01-28-05, 04:52 AM	You add animal levels to your character, a number of levels equal to the Hit Dice of the animal you become. So an afflicted human werebear (brown) progression would look like this: 1: Level Adjust 2: Level Adjust 3: Level Adjust 4: Animal 1 5: Animal 2 6: Animal 3 7: Animal 4 8: Animal 5 9: Animal 6 10: Character Class 1 If you had one level in a class then you'd be a effective character level 10th but only actually a 7th level character (with 6 of your levels as animal levels).
khaalis 01-28-05, 04:54 AM	Edit - wow you guys are fast.... Here is some further detail. I think I can aswer this from the SRD. -----SRD/Monster----- Starting Level of a Monster PC: Monsters suitable for play have a level adjustment given in their statistics. Add a monster’s level adjustment to its Hit Dice and class levels to get the creature’s effective character level, or ECL. Effectively, monsters with a level adjustment become multiclass character when they take class levels. A creature’s “monster class” is always a favored class, and the creature never takes XP penalties for having it. Level Adjustment and Effective Character Level: To determine the effective character level (ECL) of a monster character, add its level adjustment to its racial Hit Dice and character class levels. Use ECL instead of character level to determine how many experience points a monster character needs to reach its next level. Also use ECL to determine starting wealth for a monster character. -----SRD/Lycanthrope----- Hit Dice and Hit Points: Same as the base creature plus those of the base animal. To calculate total hit points, apply Constitution modifiers according to the score the lycanthrope has in each form. Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +2 (afflicted) or +3 (natural). In addition, a lycanthrope’s character level is increased by the number of racial Hit Dice the base animal has. -----End SRD----- So in your example of a 1st level human werebear, you would have the following (use fighter as a class example). 1st level Afflicted Human/Werebear Fighter: HD: 7 (1d10 Fighter + 6d8+30 Werebear) LA: +2 Thus ECL = 9th level 1st level Natural Human/Werebear Fighter: HD: 7 (1d10 Fighter + 6d8+30 Werebear) LA: +3 Thus ECL = 10th level Hope that helps clarify.
Elvish Presley 01-28-05, 05:19 AM	Thank you all, it cleared up a lot.....sadly enough ;) Bye, bye, Werebear Template - Hello insight of rules :)
oak 01-29-05, 03:52 AM	Your question is already answered, but check out the following article for gratuitous information: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031114a There are a bunch of other examples of template/monster classes within the Savage Progressions area of the wotc site - which are useful if you want to start at first level and work into a template. It can be tough to survive in those low levels (racial abilities are rarely a substitute for class levels in terms of survivability at low levels). Cheers, - Oak
kyril 01-30-05, 10:33 AM	In the 3.5 monster manual, i dont see it saying anywhere about adding hit die to the ECL addition, its just +2 and +3. Now if you go back to the 3.0 forgotten realms faerune lycanthrope section it says add the hit die of hte monster to the ECL as well. If i'm not mistaken the part in 3.5, the only section thats says to add the hit die to a score is to determine the monsters challenge rating, it no way says anything about adding it to the characters class level. The only ECL is mentions is +3 for nat and +2 for afflicted.
khaalis 01-30-05, 11:45 AM	In the 3.5 monster manual, i dont see it saying anywhere about adding hit die to the ECL addition, its just +2 and +3. Now if you go back to the 3.0 forgotten realms faerune lycanthrope section it says add the hit die of hte monster to the ECL as well. If i'm not mistaken the part in 3.5, the only section thats says to add the hit die to a score is to determine the monsters challenge rating, it no way says anything about adding it to the characters class level. The only ECL is mentions is +3 for nat and +2 for afflicted. Setting asside the quotes I already listed from the 3.5 SRD, here are the necessary passages from the 3.5 Monster Manual. p.178, 1st column, 3rd paragraph under "Level Adjustment" from the "Creating a Lycanthrope" text. "Same as the base creature +2 (afflicted) or +3 (natural). In addition, a lycanthrope's character level is increased by the number of racial Hit Dice the base animal has." p.7, 2nd column, under "Level Adjustment" "This line is included in the entries of creatures suitable for use as player characters or as cohorts [(...)]. Add this number to the creature's total Hit Dice, including class level, to get the creature's effective character level (ECL). ..." p.308, 1st column, under "Effective Character Level (ECL)" "This number represents a creature's overall power relative to that of a character from the Player's Handbook. A creature with an ECL of 10 is roughly equivalent to a 10th level character. A creature's ECL is the sum of its Hit Dice (including class levels) and level adjustment. For instance, a minotaur has 6HD and a +2 level adjustment. It is the equivalent of an 8th level character."