Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hell0 10-14-03, 10:17 PM	With all of the recent talk around here about the Telflammar Shadowlord, someone said something about the Horizon walker as a way to qualify for it. So, I looked at the class, and found that I had overlooked it when I originally browsed through the new PrCs. Anyway, it can get this nifty ability at level six, dimension door every 1d4 rounds. Works great with shadowlord's shadow pounce. But, at 6 levels, it makes combining Shadow Pounce (4 levels), Horizon Walker Planar (6 levels), and Bladesinger's Song of Celerity (6 levels) impossible. One level earlier and it could be done. Now to the question: Anyone know of a way to get a dimension door every couple of rounds like the horizon walker in fewer levels than 6 (or creatures with ECL of less than 6)? ---- edit: githyanki have dimension door at will. No idea on their ecl though.
SerpentMage 10-14-03, 11:10 PM	Githyanki = Dimension Door at will = LA +2 EDIT: Probably the easiest way to get into TS as a Githyanki is Rogue5/Fighter2. Fighter is their favored class, and the two bonus feats help a lot in terms of the hefty requirements for TS (4 feats, all of which are on the Fighter Bonus Feat list). Alternately, Rogue3/Fighter2/Assassin2 could also work. Since Githyanki are Always evil(any), it's actually a decent fit (better than rogue in many ways - lose 8 skill points to gain +2 Reflex save bonus, death attack, poison use, +1 to saves against poison, and 1st level spells). Simple 20 Level builds: Shadow-centric Githyanki (2) Rogue5/Fighter2/Teflammar Shadowlord5/Shadowdancer6 Death attack + Sneak attack Githyanki (2) Rogue3/Fighter2/Assassin7/Teflammar Shadowlord6 BAB+TWF Githyanki (2) Rogue3/Fighter4/Teflammar Shadowlord5/Tempest6 BAB+TWF (assuming high Dex) Githyanki (2) Rogue3/Fighter10/Teflammar Shadowlord5 EDIT 2: Bladesinger won't work as a Githyanki because you have to be an elf or a half-elf. An elf/half-elf with the Shadow-walker template would be able to do something like (keep in mind that TS+BS requires 8 feats): Shadow-walker (1) Rogue3/Fighter4/Teflammar Shadowlord5/Bladesinger7 Barely squeezes it in (because of all those feats); really huge hit to Con, too, if you choose elf (half-elf would be far wiser, IMO). It doesn't meet the requirements of being able to Dimension Door at will, but it is probably as good as it gets for a Bladesinger/Teflammar Shadowlord.
Korwin 10-15-03, 03:16 AM	Shade-Template? Not shure but I belive evry second round you could use it. (it's a +4 LA)
SerpentMage 10-15-03, 03:47 AM	The Shade template has been errata'd to be LA +5 (and nearly all abilities only work in some kind of darkness). Also, the ability you refer to, Shadow Stride, does not technically qualify for Teflammar Shadowlord...if it did, it would be the best way to use Shadow Pounce (since it is a MEA, so you could get in a full attack, plus still have a SA left over). Also, Shade, being LA +5, wouldn't work for combining TS (Shadow Pounce) and BS (Song of Celerity)...LA is just too high until Epic levels. I don't think it's possible to qualify for BS earlier than Rogue3/Fighter4/Teflammar Shadowlord5 (unless you are allowed to combine OA Samurai with Fighter) when also requiring Shadow Pounce from TS. Therefore, anything with LA greater than +2 just won't work if the poster wants Song of Celerity, too.
Funny Slaughter 10-15-03, 04:43 AM	since giths got the slap with the errata also it seems that you best qualify via a PrC. bladesinger is not needed, horizon walker is fine with me, especially with the +4 to some key-skills. shade for ecl 5 is a joke as many of the published ecl's, youhave to chose which source to use anyhow. with the original template and a high level game i think a shade TSL could be fun, otherwise the ecl hurts too bad. gs Funny
SerpentMage 10-15-03, 06:07 AM	since giths got the slap with the errata also it seems that you best qualify via a PrC. Where were they errata'd?
Funny Slaughter 10-15-03, 07:15 AM	in a recent dragon-issue or something i was told. they can cast dimension door only 3/day now. not too bad, but i think if you really want to play the lich-queens hunt its not longer worth it. since i am not familiar with the exact "new" giths i cant say more, i trhink i will ignore them :smirk: and, if i ever get the opportunity, play an "old" one. gs Funny
hell0 10-15-03, 08:18 AM	Thanks for the assistance. If I tried to use this, maybe I would go for a githyanki with some elven heritage (dunno how that would work, but its worth a shot).
Balthanon 10-15-03, 08:55 AM	Originally posted by SerpentMage Where were they errata'd? Monster Manual 3.5 actually. Dimension Door is only 3/day and you don't get it until character level 6.
SerpentMage 10-15-03, 10:50 PM	Originally posted by Balthanon Monster Manual 3.5 actually. Dimension Door is only 3/day and you don't get it until character level 6. Probably for the best...at will really was too much of a good thing, :smirk: ...
Korwin 10-16-03, 01:21 AM	Originally posted by SerpentMage The Shade template has been errata'd to be LA +5 (and nearly all abilities only work in some kind of darkness). Also, the ability you refer to, Shadow Stride, does not technically qualify for Teflammar Shadowlord...if it did, it would be the best way to use Shadow Pounce (since it is a MEA, so you could get in a full attack, plus still have a SA left over). Not shure about that, Races of Ferun was published after FRCS, and there is the LA +4 (found no Errata for Races of Ferun). Also, [snip] , too. [/B]
catharz 10-16-03, 03:55 AM	You can qualify for Bladesinger as quickly as T. Shadowlord (more quickly if you don't care about TS), and it grants Dimension door at the same level as Song of celerity. What advantage does adding shade or a questionable githyanki to the mix have? I'm just sayin'...
SerpentMage 10-16-03, 04:01 AM	Originally posted by Korwin Not shure about that, Races of Ferun was published after FRCS, and there is the LA +4 (found no Errata for Races of Ferun). [/B] Interesting...probably worth it at LA +4 (pretty nice template, at least for Teflammar Shadowlords...assuming you can convince your DM to relax the pre-reqs). Thanks for pointing that out; I didn't even bother to check RoF. Still doesn't help in terms of getting Shadow Pounce and Song of Celerity before level 20, unfortunately.
SerpentMage 10-16-03, 04:12 AM	Originally posted by catharz You can qualify for Bladesinger as quickly as T. Shadowlord (more quickly if you don't care about TS), and it grants Dimension door at the same level as Song of celerity. What advantage does adding shade or a questionable githyanki to the mix have? I'm just sayin'... The original poster asked for a means of getting an at will (or as close to that as possible; ie, with HW, every 1d4 rounds) Dimension Door ability while also achieving 6th level in Bladesinger (for Song of Celerity) and 4th level in Teflammar Shadowlord (for Shadow Pounce). Obviously, it is possible to get Song of Celerity and Shadow Pounce in the same 20 level build (by level 18, I believe), but that wasn't the issue.
Funny Slaughter 10-16-03, 05:52 AM	i dont think you can get BS6, TSL4 and dimension door @will or something close within 20 levels. i just wonder why someone would be in need of something like this. the bladesinger-combo was clear and cheesy: full-attack, free quicken casting of dimension door due to song of celerity, another full attack due to shadow pounces bad wording... anyhow, i am not a big fan of this combination, BS eats up too many feats for my taste. maybe i will try some TSL-buid with shade when i am back, interested me for quite some time. gs Funny
catharz 10-16-03, 04:28 PM	Let me be clearer: Originally posted by hell0 Anyway, it can get this nifty ability at level six, dimension door every 1d4 rounds. Works great with shadowlord's shadow pounce. But, at 6 levels, it makes combining Shadow Pounce (4 levels), Horizon Walker Planar (6 levels), and Bladesinger's Song of Celerity (6 levels) impossible. One level earlier and it could be done. Now to the question: Anyone know of a way to get a dimension door every couple of rounds like the horizon walker in fewer levels than 6 (or creatures with ECL of less than 6)? The optimal tactic for a Bladesinger is 1) Use shadow jump to close with an opponent, then 2) Full attack while casting Dimension door to another (or the other side of the same) opponent, then 3)Full attack again while casting Dimension door (either to safety or another opponents, etc). The best tactics for a character with D. Door at will are teleport in, full attack, and then teleport away at the beginning of the next round. For creatures with special teleportation abilities (blink dogs, amy be phase spiders if etherial jaunt is [teleportation]), other tactics can apply. Song of celerity dosen't stack with any sort of at-will supernatural or spell-like [teleportation] abilities. It only works with spells. Therefore, there is very little benefit in getting both. Because T. Shadowlords automatically get Shadow jump, you don't even gain an extra full attack from Song of celerity and D. door at will. Therefore, while it may be possible to get Shadow pounce, Song of celerity, and an at will [teleportation] ability, you're not getting your levels worth.