A question on Metamagic [Archive] - Wizards Community

A question on Metamagic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Alekzandr
07-27-05, 04:14 AM Seeing how this relates to game mechanics, I thought here was no place better than the Character optimization board.
So, um... What exactly happens when a spell is metamagiced with Twin spell and Empower? both twined spells are empowered, or only one?
primetimekiller
07-27-05, 04:27 AM yes both are empowerd!
this also works for repeated spell
since it says:
twin spell

The target spell takes effect twice, as if you cast it two times simultaneously on the same
target & with the same choices. Each must be saved against and/or dispelled
separately.

and

repeat spell

On round after a Repeat spell was cast, it is cast again from the same starting location
(even if the caster has moved) and at the same target. If targeted on a creature, the spell
will target that creature again as long as he/she has not moved more than 30’.
Otherwise, the spell fails. Spells with range ‘touch’ cannot be effected by this feat.

so yes!
a when you twin an empowered spell both spells are empowerd!
Lokathor
07-27-05, 04:52 AM both
The Wild Rover
08-02-05, 02:38 PM is there a limit as to how many metamagic feats you can apply to one spell? sorry i'm completely new to casters but am thinking of playing one in the near future
amekaze
08-02-05, 02:42 PM Each metamagic feat increases the effective level of the spell. So if you wanted to cast an empowered(+2 level), twinned(+4 level) fireball, you'd have to memorize it as a 9th level spell.

Needless to say, normal 9th level spells can do things much cooler than 60 fire damage twice.
PhoenixInferno
08-02-05, 04:27 PM NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!

Metamagic feats only alter the base spell. I mentioned this on another thread regarding Reach+Chain and why that doesn't work normally. The example is a Maximized, Empowered 10d6 base Fireball. When you apply the metamagic, you only get 60+5d6. Maximized base damage + Empowered base damage.

So your example of Twinned, Empowered is that you'll get two copies of the spell, but only one will be Empowered.

The "same choices" clause that primetimekiller points out are choices regarding the spell's target and effect, NOT metamagic effects.

is there a limit as to how many metamagic feats you can apply to one spell? sorry i'm completely new to casters but am thinking of playing one in the near future
You can apply as many metamagic feats as you want, provided you can still wind up casting the spell.
Fwib
08-02-05, 05:58 PM Metamagic feats only alter the base spell. I mentioned this on another thread regarding Reach+Chain and why that doesn't work normally. The example is a Maximized, Empowered 10d6 base Fireball. When you apply the metamagic, you only get 60+5d6. Maximized base damage + Empowered base damage.Maximise and Empower work like that because it says so in the text - please quote book and page for your assertion that all metamagics work as you insist.
Mr. Dog
08-02-05, 06:35 PM The only time that a metamagic feat would not stack with another metamagic feat is when they affect the same thing.

Maximize, empower, and intensify spell all affect the variable, numberic effects.

They do not "stack" with one another.

Twin spell and Repeat Spell affect the number of times a spell is cast. They would not "stack." A twinned, repeated magic missile results in 3 magic missile spells.

Widen affects a spell's area. Enlarge affects its range. These stack, because they don't affect the same thing.

A widened fireball with the silent spell and energy substitution (cold) feats applied becomes a spell that:

Is like fireball, but deals cold damage instead of fire, requires no verbal components, and has 150% of the normal area.

None of the three feats mentioned have anything to do with the others. You would not get a spell that was only partially silenced, with part of the area being fire damage and part of it being cold damage.

Each feat affects the entire spell, as it is with all variables. The exceptions are clearly noted in the text of the feats. See empower and Maximize and Intensify.

Chain spell requires that the spell affects a single target, and has a range greater than touch.
Still spell removes the need for somatic components, negating arcane spell failure.
Maximize spell makes the affected spell's variable, numeric effects take effect at 100% efficiency.

A Chained, Still, Maximized Searing Light has no somatic component, deals maximized damage to the target with no save, and deals half damage to a number of secondary targets. The entire spell is maximized, even against the secondary targets (but chain spell says it deals half damage). The entire spell is Still, meaning that you don't make a separate check for arcane spell failure for the chained "portion" of the spell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alekzandr 07-27-05, 04:14 AM	Seeing how this relates to game mechanics, I thought here was no place better than the Character optimization board. So, um... What exactly happens when a spell is metamagiced with Twin spell and Empower? both twined spells are empowered, or only one?
primetimekiller 07-27-05, 04:27 AM	yes both are empowerd! this also works for repeated spell since it says: twin spell The target spell takes effect twice, as if you cast it two times simultaneously on the same target & with the same choices. Each must be saved against and/or dispelled separately. and repeat spell On round after a Repeat spell was cast, it is cast again from the same starting location (even if the caster has moved) and at the same target. If targeted on a creature, the spell will target that creature again as long as he/she has not moved more than 30’. Otherwise, the spell fails. Spells with range ‘touch’ cannot be effected by this feat. so yes! a when you twin an empowered spell both spells are empowerd!
Lokathor 07-27-05, 04:52 AM	both
The Wild Rover 08-02-05, 02:38 PM	is there a limit as to how many metamagic feats you can apply to one spell? sorry i'm completely new to casters but am thinking of playing one in the near future
amekaze 08-02-05, 02:42 PM	Each metamagic feat increases the effective level of the spell. So if you wanted to cast an empowered(+2 level), twinned(+4 level) fireball, you'd have to memorize it as a 9th level spell. Needless to say, normal 9th level spells can do things much cooler than 60 fire damage twice.
PhoenixInferno 08-02-05, 04:27 PM	NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO! Metamagic feats only alter the base spell. I mentioned this on another thread regarding Reach+Chain and why that doesn't work normally. The example is a Maximized, Empowered 10d6 base Fireball. When you apply the metamagic, you only get 60+5d6. Maximized base damage + Empowered base damage. So your example of Twinned, Empowered is that you'll get two copies of the spell, but only one will be Empowered. The "same choices" clause that primetimekiller points out are choices regarding the spell's target and effect, NOT metamagic effects. is there a limit as to how many metamagic feats you can apply to one spell? sorry i'm completely new to casters but am thinking of playing one in the near future You can apply as many metamagic feats as you want, provided you can still wind up casting the spell.
Fwib 08-02-05, 05:58 PM	Metamagic feats only alter the base spell. I mentioned this on another thread regarding Reach+Chain and why that doesn't work normally. The example is a Maximized, Empowered 10d6 base Fireball. When you apply the metamagic, you only get 60+5d6. Maximized base damage + Empowered base damage.Maximise and Empower work like that because it says so in the text - please quote book and page for your assertion that all metamagics work as you insist.
Mr. Dog 08-02-05, 06:35 PM	The only time that a metamagic feat would not stack with another metamagic feat is when they affect the same thing. Maximize, empower, and intensify spell all affect the variable, numberic effects. They do not "stack" with one another. Twin spell and Repeat Spell affect the number of times a spell is cast. They would not "stack." A twinned, repeated magic missile results in 3 magic missile spells. Widen affects a spell's area. Enlarge affects its range. These stack, because they don't affect the same thing. A widened fireball with the silent spell and energy substitution (cold) feats applied becomes a spell that: Is like fireball, but deals cold damage instead of fire, requires no verbal components, and has 150% of the normal area. None of the three feats mentioned have anything to do with the others. You would not get a spell that was only partially silenced, with part of the area being fire damage and part of it being cold damage. Each feat affects the entire spell, as it is with all variables. The exceptions are clearly noted in the text of the feats. See empower and Maximize and Intensify. Chain spell requires that the spell affects a single target, and has a range greater than touch. Still spell removes the need for somatic components, negating arcane spell failure. Maximize spell makes the affected spell's variable, numeric effects take effect at 100% efficiency. A Chained, Still, Maximized Searing Light has no somatic component, deals maximized damage to the target with no save, and deals half damage to a number of secondary targets. The entire spell is maximized, even against the secondary targets (but chain spell says it deals half damage). The entire spell is Still, meaning that you don't make a separate check for arcane spell failure for the chained "portion" of the spell.