Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Retinal Haze 05-15-04, 03:44 PM	How fast can you make someone go? And what happens when things go really fast? I do not have the savage species book, and i hear there are great templates for wings and flying but i cant use that right now. So with that said this is what ive come up with. Human half cilestial monk, 16th level. 30 base speed +50 unarmored speed bonus (i looked but best i can tell its a generic speed bonus) Total= 80 base speed. The Half celestial template gives him wings that double his base speed. 160 fly speed +30 for being hasted total= 190 speed (while flying) When making a full round to move is x4 Making him move 760ft in 6 seconds. thats 86.4 miles per hour So if he ran past someone they would be subject to hurricane force winds? Hurricane force winds being 75–174 mph. Meaning Medium or smaller creatures are blown away and large creatures are knocked down? What do you guys think?
nullex 05-15-04, 08:01 PM	Um, one problem. The +30 enhancement bonus from haste wouldn't count considering the monk's speed bonus is also enhancement. Sorry to nix it. Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a monk gains an enhancement bonus to her speed, as shown on Table: The Monk. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed. I'm still a fan of the good ol' fashioned 19th level human barbarian turned monk who can run a 56 second mile (without any sort of magical enhancement, equipment or otherwise). That's equal to 63 mph (remember to merge out of the fast lane). With the Run feat, you could move 550 ft in a round. Base speed = 110ft. 30 (human) + 10 (Quick trait from Unearthed Arcana) + 10 (barbarian) + 60 (monk). Yes they stack. If you applied the half-celestial template (to get a fly speed equal to double your base land speed), your flight in a round (6 seconds) could be 1100 ft? That's 125mph. I'd like to know the structural integrity of your bones for that one. Well, this is assuming many things: a. you can run while flying. b. the Run feat applies to flight c. the monk's enhancement bonus counts towards your base land speed (which I'm not sure it does). Even if "c" is not true, then your flight speed would still be 160 ft. a round. If you can run and all that jazz, your speed would sitll be up there at 91mph. Good times.
ZenRanger 05-15-04, 08:04 PM	dont forget you can throw in the Dash feet for an additional 5ft if you're wearing nothing heavier than light armor. and although they got nerfed in 3.5 i really loved the old 3.0 boots of striding and springing, at 2,500gp and doubling your speed and +10 to jump, theres no reason not to have them.
Retinal Haze 05-15-04, 08:30 PM	okay so no haste :( Im not sure if there is a similar feat for flying that gives a 5x for flight instead of 4x. I would assume there is one so if im wrong please correct me (((30 base +50 for monk +5 for feat)x2 for wings)x5 for full round)=96 mph So any creature the monk flies next to is affected by hurricane force winds (75–174 mph). Medium or smaller creatures must make a dc 20 fort save or be blown away, large creatures are knocked down, and huge creatures are checked(unable to move). Gargantuan or Colossal are not affected.
nullex 05-15-04, 09:46 PM	Originally posted by Retinal Haze So any creature the monk flies next to is affected by hurricane force winds (75–174 mph). Medium or smaller creatures must make a dc 20 fort save or be blown away, large creatures are knocked down, and huge creatures are checked(unable to move). Gargantuan or Colossal are not affected. Yeah, wow. I can just imagine this character swooping down low to the ground and leaving behind this trail of carnage from bushes, trees, and other loose/small objects being caught up in the wake (not to mention small and medium creatures!). Kind of like Neo's catching of Trinity in Matrix Reloaded (although not that fast. And I'm sorry, but there has to be some improvement for damage from Fly-By Attack. 96mph?!?! That has to be at least x4 damage. :cool:
Retinal Haze 05-15-04, 10:03 PM	And I'm sorry, but there has to be some improvement for damage from Fly-By Attack. 96mph?!?! That has to be at least x4 damage I would agree with you, but keep in mind he is making a full round move, not a charge and not an attack. so thats out of the question really.
nullex 05-15-04, 10:09 PM	Goooooood point. I'm an idiot.
Gravmyr 05-15-04, 11:33 PM	If you take the wilder feat.... or whatever the name of it is and get speed of thought feat add +10 when focused get up the walls to be able to own cavern movement.
Ramses III 05-16-04, 03:38 AM	There was a spell, i forget where i read it but i think it was in a dragon mag... it was designed for dragons but applies to any flier, and lets you fly in a straight line at 10x your normal speed after going in a straight line at normal speed for one round. Now that would just be ridiculous:D
Grim Sage 05-16-04, 07:08 AM	Remember it's 2x speed when diving Also check the alchemical item Fleetfoot from A&EG, grants you x5 speed on a run or x6 if you have the run feat. Feral adds another +10 ft. let's summarize: Anthro light horse (ECL2): base 50 ft. Anthro cheetah (ECL4): base 40 ft. plus Sprint (Ex) ability. Xeph (LA+0): base 30 ft. plus Burst (Ex) ability and psionic, thus opening up Speed of Thought as an option. Feral: +10 ft. Barbarian: +10 ft. Monk12: +40 ft. Monk15: +50 ft. Monk18: +60 ft. Dash feat: +5 ft. Speed of Thought feat: +10 ft. Fleet of Foot (regional) feat: +10 ft. Quick trait: +10 ft. Half-Celestial template (+4 LA): Fly at double base land speed Half-Fey template (+2 LA): Fly at double fastest movement mode Run feat: x5 run instead of x4 Fleetfoot: x5 run instead of x4, or x6 if the character has the Run feat.
Retinal Haze 05-16-04, 09:42 AM	Well done Grim Sage, a base human with those outlined abilites flies at 416.7 feet per second, or 284 miles per hour. Which is well past tornado force winds. Meaning all creatures that are large or smaller must make a dc 30 fort save or be blown away. Any Huge creature is knocked down, and Gargantuan and Colossal creatures are checked (cannot move). This also makes any ranged attacks including all seige weapons, including boulders thrown by giants, impossible to hit their target. I suppose the only way to even *hit* this guy would be with magic? that is if the mage hasnt been blown away.
Grim Sage 05-16-04, 10:45 AM	that's fun 'n all, but what i'm really wondering is if we can break the sound barrier :angel: let's see: (This assumes anything working on land speed increase also works on fly speed. Bit of a stretch, but acceptable IMO. Also, throw out any sense of wondering how this monstrosity came to be) Half-Fey Feral Anthropomorphic Cheetah Barbarian1/Monk12 15HD, LA +5 Trait: Quick Flaws: Inattentive, Vulnerable 8 Feats: Fleet of Foot, Run, Dash x6 Land speed: 40+10+10+40+10+10+5+5+5+5+5+5 = 150 ft. Fly speed: (2x150=) 300 ft. 'Running': 1500 ft. (170,45 mph or 274,25 kph) w/Fleetfoot: 1800 ft. (204,54 mph or 329,10 kph) Sprint (1/hour, charge): 3000 ft. (340,90 mph or 548,51 kph) Do this on a dive (2x speed, but remember to start high up enough not to crash into the earth at deadly velocity) and we have a grand total of 6000 ft. (681,80 mph or 1097,02 kph). As the speed of sound (at 20 °C) is 769.664 mph or 1236,96 kph, we're close but not quite there yet. Another 20 ft. of base land speed should do the trick ;). Who's up to it?
Aramil Liadon 05-16-04, 11:18 AM	Can't you just use the Winged Template instead of the Half-Celestial one? Aramil
PhaedrusXY 05-16-04, 11:22 AM	Using the stuff GrimSage posted combined with blade dancer from OA, here's the best I can do. Feral half-fey anthropomorphic cheetah wiz6/barb2/EK2/BladeDancer10 (ECL 27) Base speed 120 (BD10 w/base spd40) +10 Barb +10 Feral +10 Fleet of Foot +10 Quick Trait +5 Dash feat +10 Speed of Thought feat --------------------------- Total 175 "base" land movement Half-fey: 350 "base" flight speed +30 Haste = 380 X10 w/cheetah sprint X11 w/run feat X12 w/fleetfoot item ----------------------- 4560 feet per round 760 feet per second 518 mph It's still a bit shy of the sound barrier, unless you let it all double in a dive. Then it would be way past it.
Grim Sage 05-16-04, 11:28 AM	Very nice, though since the cheetah's Sprint is a charge (not a run), Run and Fleetfoot don't stack with it. Also, updated my build some more... maybe I should look at that Bladedancer sometime ;)
PhaedrusXY 05-16-04, 11:33 AM	Originally posted by Grim Sage As the speed of sound (at 20 °C) is 769.664 mph or 1236,96 kph, we're close but not quite there yet. Another 40 ft. of base land speed should do the trick ;). Who's up to it? Actually, you've beaten it. According to THIS SITE (http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Dictionary/sound_barrier/DI94.htm): At sea level, the speed of sound is about 761 miles per hour (1,225 kilometers per hour).
Grim Sage 05-16-04, 11:41 AM	I think you've misread my post ;) I was simply stating the speed of sound at 20° C, the site you came up with lists it for a slightly lower temperature. Now, I've broken it if you're flying in environment of roughly -45 °C (680.848 mph) or colder. However, on most (non-polar) material planes, we'll need a little more to reach it :)
PhaedrusXY 05-16-04, 11:48 AM	Um... no. It isn't as fast as you think it is. Go see THIS SITE (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/souspe.html).
Grim Sage 05-16-04, 12:14 PM	That's the site I was using ;)
nullex 05-16-04, 03:45 PM	The only other option I can think of is to take the Paragon template from Epic HB, which triples your base land speed. I don't like the idea, as I think having a non-epic character that can break the sound barrier is just too cool.
Retinal Haze 05-16-04, 03:46 PM	Just give the character a amulet of adaptation and they could go as high up as needed to break the sound barier. But that is pretty useless in battle seing how your 22,000 feet above the fight. Im looking for someone who could dive down at ground level and pass by people at supersonic speeds. causing even colossal creatures to be blown away. I have a question though, if you have a single use item of maximised timestop could you just fly around your apponents at this speed for five full rounds? which is still compressed into six seconds? Would you actually make a tornado?
nullex 05-16-04, 03:48 PM	Originally posted by Aramil Liadon Can't you just use the Winged Template instead of the Half-Celestial one? The reason to use the half-celestial template is that it gives you a fly speed equal to your land speed x2, as opposed to land speed +20ft for the winged template.
Aramil Liadon 05-16-04, 03:54 PM	Oh, I didn't see that, thanks :) Aramil
FourtySeven 05-16-04, 04:31 PM	Well, given that with a constant accelaration (and no friction) you can theoretically accelerate to infinite speeds..... Pixie - Decanter of Endless Water strapped to his back - WHOOOOOOOOSHHH!!! (with a ring of freedom of movement to cancel out any friction type stuff)
Grim Sage 05-16-04, 04:36 PM	My build can achieve pretty nice speeds without the dive so that'll be alright i think... FourtySeven, though that would probably only work in a vacuum (and in a world where physics are actually taken seriously, eg. not D&D), i just love the mental imagery :rofl:
Effling 05-16-04, 05:00 PM	The Shadow Template, at LA +1 I think, gives a x1.5 boost to all movement. So that's worth considering. :)
nullex 05-16-04, 05:38 PM	Originally posted by Effling The Shadow Template, at LA +1 I think, gives a x1.5 boost to all movement. So that's worth considering. :) Nice!
Grim Sage 05-16-04, 06:07 PM	Shadow Creature, from MotP, is LA +2 and does indeed have its speed multiplied by 1˝... good catch.
nullex 05-16-04, 06:35 PM	Originally posted by Grim Sage Shadow Creature, from MotP, is LA +2 and does indeed have its speed multiplied by 1˝... good catch. So where does that put us? Are we making Chuck Yeager proud yet?
Cynosure 05-16-04, 06:40 PM	I can't quite remember the specifics, but I know there is a thread somewhere on this board talking about the same thing. It may have been using 3.0 rules, but it got someone's max speed up a little past 900 miles per hour. Only catch was that he could only do it once per day.
Retinal Haze 05-17-04, 03:22 AM	So now that we have broken the sound barrier what is the effects of a supersonic creature flying past you? I would argue Colossial creatures are knocked down and and Gargantuan and smaller creatures are blown away, i would argue the smaller the creature the further it gets blown. I would also argue the shockwave would take like 3d6 force/sonic dammage to you and you would have to make a fort save or be deafend for 1d6 rounds
Grim Sage 05-17-04, 07:52 AM	Cynosure, i remember the thread you mean, but IIRC that was accomplished mostly due to the various ways of doubling your speed in 3.0 (Expeditious retreat, for example), taking more actions and stacking all of 'em together (instead of having to worry about enhancement or differently typed bonuses). As for the shadow, i'll update to see what the gain would be.
nullex 05-17-04, 11:50 AM	Also, we can use a cleric with the Celerity domain (from the new Complete Divine, where it's not a Prestige Domain), +10ft (unnamed).
Stan the Sneak 05-17-04, 02:13 PM	Is there a way to add 1 level of Berserk for another +10 ?
Khazra 05-17-04, 02:19 PM	Could you manage to do this with base creature as centaur instead of human? It gives you very good monk speed (after 6 monk levels your faster then the level 18 human monk!)
Iku Rex 05-17-04, 02:42 PM	FYI: A half-celestial has feathered wings and can fly at twice the base creature's base land speed (good maneuverability). A creature's base lands speed can be found in the race description. For example, human base land speed is 30 feet. Many (but not all) of the speed bonuses listed in this thread don't change your base land speed, and are not doubled by the half-celestial template. I suspect the same applies for the half-fey.
Grim Sage 05-17-04, 04:11 PM	'twice the base creature's fastest mode of movement' gotta love the wording :P that's why i went for half-fey; and why Shadow won't add as much then again, base land speed = unmodified by any nonpermanent effects, right? most of the things I use permanently increase someone's speed, mostly with unnamed bonuses.
Retinal Haze 05-17-04, 06:51 PM	IF you were a level one human monk half celestial your base speed is 30, this making the monk's fly speed 60. However, if your a 20th level human monk half celestial your base speed is 90. It doesnt make any sense that you could run faster than you could fly. it would increase to reflect the general speed of the creature. permindent speed increases i would argue are doubled by being half celestial. Where as duration increases, like haste, are not.
PhaedrusXY 05-18-04, 02:04 AM	Retinal Haze: Actually, and this has been pointed out at least once already in this thread, the monk's faster speed is an enhancement bonus in 3.5, NOT an increase to base speed. That's why I didn't bother with any monk levels in the build I posted. Because of all the other stuff I was adding in, I could really fit enough in to beat what you get from Haste. And they don't stack. Iku Rex: I figured some of the stuff that Grim Sage listed didn't increase base speed, but I don't own all those books and couldn't check for the build I posted. I figured someone would chime in and point out our errors. ;) I know that a level of barbarian does indeed add +10 to base movement rate. And the Blade Dancer also specifically increases a creatures base speed. I don't know about the rest. Edit: Heck, upon looking back the only additions to base speed I used was from the Blade Dancer. So I think my build is legal.
Finalcrossxiii 05-18-04, 09:59 PM	stupid post .. nvm
catharz 05-18-04, 10:02 PM	Originally posted by Finalcrossxiii ya know just something to consider. does anyone wonder if he would do any more dmage on a charge .. i mean .. a guy goin 15mph does an extra 2 damage.. but a guy goin like 100 is doin 2 damage also.. ?? or flying kick .. only another d12 for the same reason .. just something to think about It is a balance issue. In D&D, you also won't die because you tripped over a rock running at 100 mph.
Retinal Haze 05-19-04, 03:55 PM	i think a monk going really fast past someone would be very much like "Gust of Wind" in the phb, except you would increase the speed acordingly.
Grim Sage 05-19-04, 04:56 PM	Strictly by D&D rules, nothing happens. All effects concerning such speeds are completely up to your DM. I like the Gust of Wind idea... especially since it doesn't involve actually attacking a creature, since if you'd hit a creature at such speeds not only would you burst out of its other side at slightly reduced speed, i have the feeling you'd be hurt pretty badly aswell.
PhaedrusXY 05-19-04, 05:23 PM	Originally posted by Grim Sage Strictly by D&D rules, nothing happens. All effects concerning such speeds are completely up to your DM. I like the Gust of Wind idea... especially since it doesn't involve actually attacking a creature, since if you'd hit a creature at such speeds not only would you burst out of its other side at slightly reduced speed, i have the feeling you'd be hurt pretty badly aswell. Rec'dum hell! It killed 'em both! :D
obrysii 05-19-04, 09:00 PM	I can get a Centaur to go over 2000ft per round A Feral Centaur Monk lvl 18/Psion 2 ((using 3.0 rules)) moves at 180ft, base. ((Monk fast movement seems to triple speed from original speed, which would be 60 for a Feral Centaur)). Take Speed of Thought, which adds +10, so we're moving at 190ft. Add on a Saddle of Speed 5 ((from the Wizards website, adds 50ft movement)), then get the Horseshoes of Speed, which double the movement, meaning you now have a base movement of 480ft. If you have the run feat, you can now move at 2400ft per round, or rather, 272 miles per hour. A nonferal, pure monk Centaur can move at 2,000ft per round ((just take out the +10 from feral, and +10 from speed of thought)), or rather 227mph.
Khazra 05-20-04, 02:14 PM	Im sure i suggested being a centaur earlier...........
Grim Sage 05-20-04, 06:31 PM	in 3.0, I could just slap on Boots of Striding and Sprining on my build. We're talking 3.5 here. Also, the tripling your speed is a nice assumption but especially in 3.5 it becomes clear that it just adds +60ft. Sorry.
obrysii 05-20-04, 09:01 PM	Originally posted by Grim Sage in 3.0, I could just slap on Boots of Striding and Sprining on my build. We're talking 3.5 here. Also, the tripling your speed is a nice assumption but especially in 3.5 it becomes clear that it just adds +60ft. Sorry. I thought it was a discussion on speed in general, not a discussion strictly for 3.5, sorry. Also, I am aware of the monk change of speed in 3.5. It allows for smaller monks to be faster then they could have been in 3.0. However, in 3.0, it is clearly 3x base speed....but that is not relevent to the conversation. In 3.0, the centaur build works; in 3.5, it does not. Are the Horseshoes of Speed still in 3.5? They would still function on a centaur...and that could be your equivilent to the Boots of Striding and Springing.
Terraneaux 05-21-04, 01:14 AM	You can use the Air Element template from the MoTP; its 3.0 but not updated yet. It grants a 100 ft. base speed. With perfect maneuverability.
Grim Sage 05-21-04, 04:36 AM	Boots of Striding and Sprining are in 3.5, they add an 30 ft. enhancement bonus to speed (same as a monk adds, so they don't stack), and only work on an animal. As for the Air Element Creature, according to the 3.5 update document they have a lvl adjustment of +4, which is a bit high. Also, since a lot of the speed in these builds come from doubling the creature's land speed with Half-(fey); a base fly speed isn't that useful since it'll get overridden by the other template.
Retinal Haze 05-21-04, 03:51 PM	anything past 175 mph is tornado force winds. And an important note, this guy swooping past the field of combat literally makes the fighting stop. First off no creature can actually advance (above ground) closer to him. Second, any ranged attacks are literally impossible, even the 50 million-damage Hulking Hurler build couldn’t touch this guy. Third, this guy could fly back and forth indefinitely. I could see a setting where guys like this are made as a police force that keeps entire empires in check. But, any attacks that dont roll to hit, magic, still go through the wind. Although a mage cannot cast if he is being blown away, or knocked down, but if he is checked he has to make a concentration check to cast.