Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DevisChi 12-16-03, 08:15 PM	Hi, I'm about to embark on the world of D&D and I'm 1000% sure that I want to be a Rogue, but as for my race...I'm not so certain. So I pose this question: What Race(s) make the best Rogue's? PLEASE HELP! ALL INPUT IS APRECIATED! Thank you! Devis Chi
Twisted Puppy 12-16-03, 09:37 PM	Gnomes and elves get racial dex bonuses, so they're always decent. As a human, you get additional skill points and an extra feat. All depends on how you want your character - there really is no "best".
BenjCano 12-16-03, 09:52 PM	Dude, you already posted this on the classes board. If you want help, it would do yuou a service not to make an ass of yourself. I do that job around here. :D
DevisChi 12-16-03, 10:00 PM	Originally posted by BenjCano Dude, you already posted this on the classes board. If you want help, it would do yuou a service not to make an ass of yourself. I do that job around here. :D I am desperate for responses so im posting it on multiple boards...who is it hurting?
BenjCano 12-16-03, 10:03 PM	Desperate for responses? What, do you have a game in the next forty-five minutes or something? Would it really kill you to make one post and wait a day? Posting the same question on twelve different boards will make people far less likely to take the time to read and respond. So it's hurting you. Half-elf, by the way.
stanks 12-17-03, 12:04 AM	it really depends how you plan on playing the rogue...if you need the dex bonuses from being say halfling or elven, then take one of them...but if you want to get higher skill points and and extra feat, then take humans. Then decide how it will act in combat...and dont say I will sneak attack...ranged or melee...and do you want strength or not...does con matter to you more or less than dex...given that the halfling has like low strength and the elf has low con this is also very important...! If you want ranged attacks more than melee you wont have as many sneak attacks...ranged and flanking doesnt work...even though I think it should! Personally take human with weapon finesse rapier and improved initiative at 1st level...and get a reasonably high int for even more skill points. But there are also good arguements for elven and halfling...esp when you sneak attack with Mighty Composite longbow as the elf...hahaha...or the better AC of the small halfling. As a hint, other races do not make as good rogues...but they can bring in a different angle on things...which is sometimes fun! anyways, I think thats more than my 2c worth
Gnarl 12-17-03, 06:27 AM	All races make excellent rogues (maybe the half orc is an exception to this), it all depends on what kind of rogue you want to make. Dwarves make good cave crawlers because of the darkvision (and they still get good open lock, disable device and search checks). Halflings are the absolute best when it comes to stealth (they are naturally inclined to be good at those). Elves and half elves make rather good scouts. Gnomes are slightely weeker but make real fun rogues/tinker. Humans are naturally good rogues too. Don't underestimated those feats such as stealthy, persuasive, nimble fingures and the like. It's the difference between a good rogue and a very good one at low levels. And lastely, if you want to make a really good rogue, don't multiclass. You'll loose either sneak attack ( and become nearly useless in combat), skill points or the like. Ohh and btw, try the Improved Feint feat, I'm sure you'll find it very usefull for a rogue.
Big Dawg 12-17-03, 09:50 AM	IMO: halflings make the best rogues
Raist27m 12-17-03, 10:03 AM	For core races found in the PHB, I'd go with elf or halfling. If you're playing Forgotten Realms, then I'd go with Air Genasi. Minus to Charisma, but most of the skills for a rogue won't be hurt. Just a few of them. And it's not like you won't have the skill points to make up for it.
Bacon and Eggs 12-17-03, 11:18 AM	Just be a human. I'm addicted to skill usage(skill points) much like people are attracted to the +2/-2 that happens when choosing a nonhuman core race. Than you got multiclass options, an extra helpfull feat. If not that, try an elf variant.
WizO_Catoblepas 12-17-03, 05:58 PM	A couple of items: 1) You can only cross-post (post the same thread) up to two different boards. Beyond that, and you are spamming, which is against the Code of Conduct. 2) This really belongs on the Character Optimization board. I'll move it there. Thanks.
I_am_a_Yeti 12-17-03, 06:34 PM	Most rogues are in need of high dexterity and moderate strength, which often leans more towards Elf. Also ELves have many other advantages such as: 1. Are immune to sleep 2. when simply passing by a secret door they are entitled to a spot (or is it search) check to notice the door. 3. the -2 con is annoying, but who says you have to get in the face of your enemy. Humans would be my second choice simply because the get an extra skill point at each level and an extra feat at level 1. Rogues need lots of skill points, its part of the fun of playing the character. I typically will play the race that i want to play, choose the skills that i want my character to use the most, and put the stats where they reflect my character best. I'm not all for the optimization of my character, I like things to be more of a challenge. Basically, what I'm getting at is that you should do what you want to do, but If your up for optimization then you should be either a Human or an Elf.
Funny Slaughter 12-17-03, 06:42 PM	deep halfling. you get everything you can dream of as a rogue. stonecunning is unbelievable good as a rogue, i was surprised how well our new partymember did with it. gs Funny
Snow Savant 12-17-03, 06:57 PM	Hands down, the best race for a Rogue from a strategic perspective (note my emphasis on strategic and not just min/maxed combat) is a Dwarf. Yes, a Dwarf. A Rogue's life is a dangerous one. And a straight-levelled Dwarf has a much higher life expectancy in combat and in trap removal courtesy the robust aspects of a Dwarf's improved HP's and saving throws. With argument, a Rogue's key stat is DEX. Yet the Dwarf's key stat bonus is CON ... which most Rogues chose as a secondary best attribute. If you go the traditional TWF combat style route of a straight Rogue, that high CON will help you considerably since your TWF combat style will mean you are rooted the majority of time in melee ... and *WILL* get hit often. The other Rogue combat archetype is the Spring Attacker. And this unfortunately, is the one weakness of the Dwarf. Spring Attack and a base 20' move is not a good combo. His automatic search check bonuses and Stonecunning is of immense value to your typical dungeon-crawling Rogue. And I rarely see a Dwarf Rogue player take full advantage of it. Especially since a Rogue is typically busier using his class abilities outside of combat (i.e. adventuring, searching, scouting) than in combat. Elves rock. Halflings are awesome. But the Rogue that lives to see the longest life ... and thereby the wealthiest life, is the Dwarf. XO, Snow :cool:
Matt Neuman 12-17-03, 07:40 PM	Snow Said (about Con) which most Rogues chose as a secondary best attribute. You think so? Hmm. Maybe for a fighter/rogue I'd consider that. I'd prefer to keep myself from taking damage by avoiding straight fights whenever possible, so I usually don't worry about hp for a rogue. I'm happy with a 10 or 12 in Con most of the time for my rogues. I'd much rather focus on dex, cha and int since that is where my skills mostly lie. With a default array I'll usually end up with: Str 12, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 14 I might switch the int and cha (especially if we are starting at 1st level for the extra skill points) then improve the Cha at 8th. Other than skills, the main thing I want from the Int is feat access so I'm good with the odd 13. I'd also say that of the phb races human is probably the way to go for most rogues. That extra feat is invaluable.
pawsplay 12-17-03, 08:10 PM	Dwarf. Save bonuses, a bonus to resist tripping (which means you should take Improved Trip yourself), stonecunning, and you get to wear a snazzy leather apron and make mocking comments about "goblin so-called crafstmanship."
MikeN 12-17-03, 08:48 PM	If you're going for a skill-based rogue, human beats everybody else in the core races, especially as you get an extra feat and can splash levels in other classes better than any other race (Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger, etc make good rogue designs) If you want longsword and longbow (helpful especially at low levels) plus great dex and bonuses to some of your most important abilities (listen, spot, search), elves are nice. If you want Arcane Trickster, elves and humans are the premier choices. ____ Halflings are slow and stereotyped :D Other than that, they're pretty decent...I just never play them as rogue or primarily rogue because of the above :angel: Dwarves have some nice synergies but I haven't played any rogue dwarves... Gnomes I don't like as non-casters... Half-elves are passable rogues but so weak compared to everyone else except half-orcs I can't see anyone wanting to play them from a min-max point of view... Half-orcs get the short end of the stick here as with many other classes...fewer skills than any other race (thanks to the -2 int), lower use magic item possibility (from the -2 Cha), but at least they have the all-powerful +2 str and darkvision...riiight...